UK PPL (Pre JAA) SSEA Renewal

[dawsonj1]

Hi,

I'm a UK PPL FE and have been asked to conduct a renewal for a SSEA class rating for a UK PPL lifetime licence holder, issued way back before JAA.

My question is regarding the submission of paperwork. Does the GST report go to the LAA or CAA for this particular case and is this the only documentation required to be sent off? I have trawled through CAP804 and various other sources but cannot find any reference regarding renewal of said rating.

Any advice and/or reference is much appreciated.


Jim.

[Whopity]

They appear to have forgotten about National ratings, Under JAA the ANO was amended to say that all National ratings will be revalidated in accordance with JAR-FCL but that ceased when EASA came along and like you I can't find any reference anywhere. Regarding paperwork, its not an EASA rating so there appears to be no requirement for any paperwork. All part of the growing mess. Whats to say you can't sign them up on the basis of 5 hours in 13 months?

[dawsonj1]

Thanks Whopity, with this particular candidate his SSEA rating is out by a few months so requires a GST anyway and that's the only way I believe he can renew to become current again. I'm tempted to just send a copy of this to the LAA to notify them of the renewal as that's what I've done for NPPL applicants who are getting initial issue of the rating endorsed and that seems to have worked for them in the past year or so. The admin side of all this is causing me more work than the actual flying now!

[ifitaintboeing]

Whats to say you can't sign them up on the basis of 5 hours in 13 months?

ANO Schedule 7, Part C.

They appear to have forgotten about National ratings

FEH, page S2, Table N2B, "Forms used:None"

ifitaint...

[dawsonj1]

Thanks for the info. Very useful.

[Broadlands]

I am glad I am not the only one struggling with the forms. I also find it difficult to know how to process each case, hence sometimes I ask on this forum.

I have contacted the help desk many times to ask advice but get different answers for the same questions. I know there is the FEH but that does not always make it easy to understand.

For example, I have been using the 1157 and 1119b or 1119c on advice but the FEH says to use 2199. Really confused by action to renew an SEP now.

I have no idea if what I am doing is correct because I don't get feedback and queries by email go unanswered.

[xrayalpha]

You can't have an SSEA on a pre-JAR PPL (A) or any JAR or EASA licence.

SSEA was created by the UK CAA to describe the aircraft covered by one of the types of NPPL.

(basically, light aircraft minus microlights)

The problem they were trying to solve was that the old UK PPL (A), the JAP SEP and the EASA SEP all allowed one to fly microlights (albeit with differences training where the control system was different - ie weightshift - to what one's experience had been in).

That's an ICAO problem.

The UK CAA wanted to stop pilots - who were legally allowed to fly microlights - jumping into them and killing themselves. But they could only change UK ie NPPL, non-ICAO compliant licences.

So SEP means light aircraft including microlights, SSEA means light aircraft excluding micros.

[ifitaintboeing]

You CAN add a SSEA, Microlight, or SLMG class rating to a UK national PPL and use that with a NPPL Medical Declaration as if it were a NPPL.

Here's the form for a UK PPL holder (see third tick box down on the form) to add a SSEA class rating:

http://nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/Latest%20LAA%20NPPL/SSEA%20Application%20Form.pdf

providing they comply with the requirements of NPPL cross-crediting:

http://nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/NPPL%20XC%20REV%2011.pdf

However, you can no longer have a SSEA, Microlight, or SLMG class rating issued onto a JAR-FCL or EASA licence.

ifitaint...

[Mach Jump]

Dawson:

Yes. Just do the GST, and sign his Rating page. No further admin. required.


Ifitaintboeing:

Sorry for the drift, but I have someone who just completed the training and GST to convert his lapsed CAA lifetime PPL to an NPPL.

Does he have to have the NPPL issued, before he applies for a LAPL?


MJ:ok:

Ps. I've emailed GA with the question, but they usually take forever to reply. :(

[ifitaintboeing]

If he's going via the NPPL route and has completed a SSEA GST then yes, because he needs to be a NPPL holder in order to take advantage of the conversion agreement. CAP 804, Section 4, Part P, page 11.

However, you could have completed a SEP proficiency check; he can then apply directly for a LAPL on the basis of his UK PPL with valid SEP class rating and LAPL medical. This would save him about £153 admin costs. CAP 804, Section 4, Part P, page 23. :ok:

ifitaint...

[Mach Jump]

Yes. There were other issues around the need for an ATO/RF to renew his SEP that meant we had to go the NPPL route.

Thanks.


MJ:ok:

[xrayalpha]

Ifitaint,

Apologies to all if I have got it wrong, but while there is that box on the first form, the cross-crediting document states:

***********
2.1.7.6 CAA-issued licences with a valid SEP rating

The holder of a valid CAA-issued Part-FCL Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) of UK PPL (A) with valid SEP class rating who wishes to obtain a NPPL (A) (SSEA) shall:
**********

To me, that means one gets a new licence - "wishes to obtain a National Private Pilots Licence..." - which is different from adding a rating to another type of licence!

It also talks about not be able to "transfer" some rating from one licence to another, again meaning - in my view - that this is not adding an SSEA to a PPL A, but getting a new licence.

[ifitaintboeing]

To me, that means one gets a new licence - "wishes to obtain a National Private Pilots Licence..." - which is different from adding a rating to another type of licence!

It was issued as a AIC a while back and is now embedded in the ANO.

ANO Schedule 7 Part B

Section 2 – Aircraft and instructor ratings which may be included in United Kingdom aeroplane pilot licences and in National Private Pilot’s Licences (Aeroplanes)

The following ratings may be included in a United Kingdom aeroplane pilot licence or a National Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes) granted under Part 7, and, subject to the provisions of this Order and of the licence, the inclusion of a rating in a licence has the consequences specified as follows.

Microlight Class Rating
...
SSEA class rating
...
SLMG class rating
...

xrayalpha, I understand you specialise in microlights: have a look also at CAP 804, Section 5 Part A, Subpart 2 Page 7, para 3.13.

ifitaint...

[condor17]

Thanks 'ifitaint' , 'cos we've just seen a new style A4 licence ; that is a UK PPL . No SEP rating , just a SSEA rating ; issued by CAA . All brought about [ I guess ]as pilot is using a LAPL medical and uses the licence to NPPL privileges .
Was a new one on us .

He also has a LAPL , and his brown lifetime PPL .

rgds condor