Lufthansa Strike

[alserire]

Anyone able to explain what this is all about and if it's likely to end soon?


I've a couple of trips later in the year with them and this seems to have been going on and off for a while.


Pity. I've become very fond of them but if I end up missing flights them I may have to go elsewhere for my travel needs!!

[Eren]

The strike related about the retirement age of the pilots. Lutfhansa wants to increase the earliest retirement age from 55 to 60. it'll go like that unless the union and lufthansa can't agree.

[alserire]

Thanks


Hard to know who is being unreasonable here. Retiring at 55 on what I presume would be a hefty pension is not something a lot of people in Europe (and I suspect even Germany) can aspire to these days. But then again if you have 35-37 years service under your belt?


Wait and see so I suppose.

[highflyer40]

Who thinks its right to be able to retire at 55 on a full pension! Madness

[Hipennine]

Anyone see the irony of the Germans fighting to retain a benefit they have criticised the Greeks for having ?

[Hotel Tango]

Who thinks its right to be able to retire at 55 on a full pension! Madness

That was established as the norm with numerous airlines and Air Traffic Control organisations since quite a number of years. So, if you work your ar$e off looking forward to your retirement (at 55) and someone decides to move the goal posts, wouldn't you be miffed too?

[ExXB]

I did! And my contributions over the previous 26 years were designerd so I could do so.

I met a LH pilot on my holidays in Austria. he said it wasn't so much the retirement, but the outsourcing of routes to the smaller companies. They have seen all short haul flying, not involving FRA/MUC, go to these companies. They fear there will be no LH short haul flying at all soon

[alserire]

In fairness I would agree. If that's what was promised then pay up and inform new entrants that the system is changing. Not fair to move the goalposts just as someone is coming towards retirement. Didn't LH group post nearly €1 billion profit last year?

Wouldn't make much of a dent in that to pay people what they are owed.

[Denti]

Currently it is possible to retire between 55 and 60 with transitional pay until 63 and after that company and state pension. Average retirement age currently is 59. The company wants to dissolve the employee paid transitional pay fund and give it in a special dividend to its shareholders.

The union side of it all is explained here (http://www.vcockpit.de/verein/faq.html).

Sadly, at the moment the lookout isn't good. The management officially told the press last week they will not offer any better agreement and will not fold to further strike action and therefore warns its customers that further industrial action is very likely for the foreseeable future.

[PAXboy]

Usual story: Change conditions for those who have no choice and give the money to the stock market casino. YES the stock market makes security for the company but the company is the flight and cabin crew! The internationally high reputation of LH does not come from the stock markets. :* It is due to the staff that people want to invest.

I sit to be corrected.

[MG23]

The internationally high reputation of LH does not come from the stock markets.

What internationally high reputation? I dread booking Lufthansa, because, every time I do, they announce a strike. It's like flying a British airline of the 70s.

[highflyer40]

When they set retirement ages they expect people to live for 10-15 years after retirement, and that's what they base the fund on. Now that people live to be 75-80 it can't work.

[Hotel Tango]

Let's cull pensioners :E Oh wait a minute, I am one :(

[alserire]

I've been using them a bit the last few years and I'm very impressed with the service I have to say. I know there's been strikes before but this seems to be a rolling one.


Do strikes have to be announced well in advance in Germany? They seem to happen with very little notice. I have one flight later in the year that I have to take and I will have to make rearrangements if there's a threat. How long in advance are they notified to the public?

[Denti]

There is no legal requirement to announce a strike in advance, but VC seems to announce them between 12 and 72 hours in advance anyway. And even then only domestic flights or flights leaving germany are on strike, those returning to germany are not part of the industrial action, however lufthansa might elect to cancel them anyway to keep the rotation going, or to keep aircraft piling up in frankfurt or munich.

@highflyer: it is not about a pension that has to be paid open end, it is mainly about transitional pay that is paid out for a maximum of eight years, average of only four years.

[PAXboy]

MG23 It is indeed their reputation for safety and timekeeping to which I refer.

[MG23]

MG23 It is indeed their reputation for safety and timekeeping to which I refer.

A reputation for timekeeping doesn't much help if the planes aren't flying.

[PAXboy]

Indeed MG23, exactly what the mgmt should be thinking!

[alserire]

12 Hours? Really? That's unbelievable. I'm not sure what the exact legal requirement is here in Ireland but I think it's at least a week. 12 hours doesn't give much of a chance to rearrange anything if you have to travel that day.

[MG23]

Indeed MG23, exactly what the mgmt should be thinking!

Managers are rarely the ones who suffer when customers avoid a company because they can't get reliable service.

[Ignore the HUD]

On the LH Facebook page the customer services have said that 24 hours notice is normally given before a strike.
I do feel sorry for the people who have to man the hotlines or customer services at these times who are taking the cr@p instead of the pilots.
Overall I am happy to fly with LH but this ongoing strike action is causing me to book BA whenever possible.

[PAXboy]

MG23Managers are rarely the ones who suffer when customers avoid a company because they can't get reliable service.
Indeed MG23!! Managers - and I include main Board Directors - need to cut their bonus' and the dividend to pay what the contract says.

Some say that the Unions are intransigent but some do not recall taht Unions grew up because the staff got fed up of being scr€w€d by mgmt! Time and time again, staff are asked to make sacrifices and give up their contracts - and then the mgmt go off to other jobs in other carriers with a reputation for being able to pull off this kind of swindle.

If mgmt discussed matters openly with the staff over the years? Nope, profits NOW is the game.

[Andy_S]

YES the stock market makes security for the company but the company is the flight and cabin crew!

It is due to the staff that people want to invest.

Managers - and I include main Board Directors - need to cut their bonus' and the dividend to pay what the contract says.

I don't have a view one way or another on the Lufthansa dispute, but the above is nonsense and deserves to be challenged.

A business like Lufthansa is owned by it's shareholders and exists solely for the purpose of making money for their shareholders. The company is not it's staff; the staff are employed by the company in furtherance of the objective of making money, in this case by flying passengers from A to B as efficiently and cost effectively as possible.

No, people don't invest "due to the staff". They invest in a credible, attractive and profitable business proposition. The staff are not that proposition, they just serve it. Obviously the manner in which they are treated is important, but the business does not revolve around them.

Do you understand the importance of dividends? They don't just line the pockets of fat cats. They are a way of sharing out a portion of the business profits to shareholders, many of whom are institutional investors. Cut the dividends, and you cut a vital supply of cash flowing into pension schemes, savings plans, and small private investments. So ultimately it affects ordinary people.

Like I say, I have no opinion on the Lufthansa dispute, but a basic understanding of the way the business world works might put things in a more balanced perspective.