St. Helena Service [Archive]

WHBM

25th Mar 2015, 07:58

While I have sympathy with the 4,500 residents, if they're running the flight to wherever they think the most tourists will want to come from, then they're running it to the least commercially unviable place...
I don't think that analysis has been made at all. Cape Town already has equivalent links to the main hubs in Europe and the ME3 hubs, which is where I imagine most of the tourist trade will come from, and with only one flight a week there's not going to be a huge tourist trade anyway. Cape Town is also the centre of current inward tourism to South Africa; Jo'burg is the commercial centre.

My suspicion is that, as a UK government contract, it has just been given to the operator from anywhere who came up with the lowest quote, regardless. I don't know if it's a Gross Revenue or a Net Revenue contract; that is, whether it's just a charter, with the UK government receiving any fares income and taking the revenue risk over and above the subsidy, or whether this fares risk and potential revenue is the airline's with the subsidy just being a fixed amount.

Will the airport be capable of accommodating some kind of UK - Ascension - St Helena - Falklands service? I presume someone somewhere will want to try this if it can be done, at the very least for a few package tours each summer??Apparently not. The UK-Ascension-Falklands service is operated, one or two times a week, by large widebody aircraft, which the new minimalist-runway St Helena airport will be too small for. In any event, Ascension has always been closed to casual tourists.

Heathrow Harry

27th Mar 2015, 17:42

"My suspicion is that, as a UK government contract, it has just been given to the operator from anywhere who came up with the lowest quote, regardless"

yup -we're paying for it and we want it to be as cheap as possible

Calmcavok

27th Mar 2015, 21:24

Cape Town already has equivalent links to the main hubs in Europe and the ME3 hubs,

It certainly has not. For ultimate in connectivity in SA it is O R Tambo. The international terminal at CPT is very sleepy these days. The flight information board can't even be filled with all the day's (and a bit of the next morning's) services.

sunday8pm

29th Mar 2015, 21:21

A suggestion from left-field, but still curious...what about a weekly TFS/LPA one day? Both offer a truly vast selection of onward European connections.

EK77WNCL

29th Mar 2015, 21:50

Who would operate it? Yes they offer connections but it would require 2 bookings and flying with someone like TCX/TOM/EZY/LS/DE/AB etc.

sunday8pm

30th Mar 2015, 15:35

Just thinking hypothetically, somewhat outside the box and a few years hence - working on the assumption that the new airport won't be capable of taking large aircraft. London to St Helena is approx 4000 NM whereas from the Canaries its 2,650 NM. Would this not put them within range for some of the smaller equipment the European carriers have available?

Demand obviously depends on the tourism product available in St Helena, but for the UK/German market a change of planes in Tenerife or Gran Canaria would be 5 hours less than a return trip via Jo'burg assuming equal stopover time, and I dare say a little more desirable.

Not talking down the Johannesburg route here, I'm floating an option for a future route north.

good egg

30th Mar 2015, 17:32

Who's got the ATC contract at St. Helena?

BasilBush

30th Mar 2015, 18:25

Sunday8pm - the main issue with your suggestion is alternates. Ascension cannot be filed as an alternate, and the other options give rise to real problems in payload/range calcs.

sunday8pm

30th Mar 2015, 21:25

Sunday8pm - the main issue with your suggestion is alternates. Ascension cannot be filed as an alternate, and the other options give rise to real problems in payload/range calcs.

Thanks. You'll know the answer to this better than I, but could a 320/737 not make it from TFS/LPA with Luanda as an alternate?

paully

31st Mar 2015, 09:16

Ihla do Sal in the Cape Verde Islands would be a possible on a southerly routing.In days of Yore, South African Airways big orange tails used to `fly round the bulge`from places like LHR,Lisbon, Rome,Paris etc all the way to Jo Burg and Capetown with a splash and dash at Ihla north and south..

They did it with fuel hungry 707`s then 747`s for many years..No real alternates in those days, just hope and pray :D...but they did it :D

PAXboy

31st Mar 2015, 13:23

Thread Drift
Indeed they did paully and 'flying round the bulge' was the reason they became a customer for the 747 SP, along with other carriers who had to make diverse routings for political reasons. I 'bounced' at SID a few times in the small hours of the morning. You stayed onboard and were only on the ground for about 75 minutes.

BasilBush

31st Mar 2015, 13:52

sunday8pm

I don't know the answer to your question about Luanda.

Another problem with your suggestion is the issue of duty hours. Would the same crew be able to fly out and back? If not, wouldn't they be faced with carrying a spare crew (not sure of the regs on that) or alternatively slipping crews in St Helena who would then have to wait for the next flight in (say) a week's time? That would be expensive, and there isn't much hotel accommodation on the island anyway...

I'm not trying to be negative, but the peculiarities of St Helena's location mean that a lot of the otherwise sensible suggestions made on this thread aren't really practicable.

sunday8pm

31st Mar 2015, 14:49

I'm assuming of course that a northern Europe - St Helena route is not possible due to restrictions on the size of aircraft the new airport can welcome, for whatever reason. I'm wondering whether the Canaries might be near enough as at 2700nm they're in range for smaller types. Las Palmas to St Helena would be approximately 6 - 6.5 hours, could the aircraft overnight there?

With the Canaries being so accessible for the western European population, and their tourist infrastructure so developed, it would (perhaps) be easier to get the bums to the seats for a St Helena flight than if it were taking off from Accra or Lagos.

The long-term purpose of this airport is surely to bring in tourists so the island can become more self sufficient. As you hint, the tourism product will have to develop on the island before that's possible.

I just don't see European tourists getting there with a change in Jo'burg. A 16 hour trip costing £1300 wouldn't represent value for money. As I mention above, the Jo'burg route is fine for servicing the island, and will get use from locals and South Africans alike, but whether it alone will bring much money into St Helena I'm not so sure.

Ddraig Goch

15th Sep 2015, 12:20

The first flight to touch down on the new runway at St Helena is on the way, due about 14.00 today 15 Sept. It will be doing calibration flights from there for the next few days.

Follow flight on: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0hsvsapz7DRHlAkBqsSqcd9I8DqcjeFyu (http://http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0hsvsapz7DRHlAkBqsSqcd9I8DqcjeFyu)

Additional info on Twitter: http://twitter.com/hashtag/TestFlightStHelena?src=hash

racedo

22nd Sep 2015, 19:36

https://vimeo.com/139908862#_=_

First Flight Landing

Charley B

23rd Sep 2015, 08:17

Thanks for sharing that Racedo..was great :)

Union Jack

23rd Sep 2015, 09:15

On a light note, I recall during a visit to St Helena, being told by the Governor that, in the past, children born to local ladies who had become particularly close to visiting sailors were registered under the surname "Shipman".

Let's hope that, in the future, it won't be necessary to register children under the surname "Airman".......:uhoh:

Jack

racedo

23rd Sep 2015, 21:19

Thanks for sharing that Racedo..was great :)

Welcome, got it by accident and figured should share as really is big deal for there.

Ddraig Goch

27th Sep 2015, 15:18

Hi, follow this link to get some more info

https://vimeo.com/140421496

Ddraig Goch

12th Oct 2015, 11:49

Some rumours about the calibration are saying a reconfig may be neccessary and then more flights to test the system.

More concrete news on the flights to Ascension Island from St Helena online:
Monthly flights between St Helena and Ascension Island have been negotiated, after months of discontent over the vital link being excluded from the original deal with winning contractor Comair. Each month, of the the airline’s Saturday flights from Johannesburg will land at St Helena and then continue on to Ascension for an overnight stop, before a return flight on the same route. Executive councillor Lawson Henry had led angry calls for a way to be found for Saints working on Ascension and the Falklands to be able to fly home without expensive detours of many thousands of miles. Ascension Island Government acknowledge support from Governor Mark Capes and Enterprise St Helena in applying pressure for the link to be provided.

Heathrow Harry

13th Oct 2015, 15:09

now that makes sense - RAF to Ascension and then onwards to St Helena and Serf Efrika looks like a nice trip..........

Ddraig Goch

16th Oct 2015, 15:29

Further to my previous report about rumours about possible recalibration being needed after the calibration flights etc see the following report from the St Helena Independent:

The team from Flight Calibration Services Limited (FCSL) and
TAB Charters - who made the first ever landing at St Helena
Airport and carried out a series of calibration flights between
15 and 23 September 2015 - has now submitted their preliminary
findings and Basil Read is in the process of undertaking
corrective actions.
As is normal after initial calibration testing of navigational
aids, there are corrections which Basil Read will now make.
The majority of these are minor tweaks to equipment, but in
a few cases some redesign and relocation work might be
required. This includes the Localiser and DVOR. Basil Read
is working with Thales and FCSL to carry out modelling work
to inform the design and determine the extent of the rectification
work. FCSL will return to the Island, possibly in the
latter part of 2015 or early 2016, to recalibrate the NavAids
following the rectification work.
Basil Read Island Director Deon de Jager said:
“Calibration work generally results in the need for corrective
action and the teams in Basil Read and Thales are currently
working on solutions. Calibration is an ongoing requirement
to maintain Certification and is of the utmost importance in
ensuring the accuracy and effective functioning of the
NavAids.
“The calibration flights are serving their purpose in helping us
to achieve a world class facility for St Helena. In operating
the Airport, safety and security will always be our primary
concern.”
Further details on the second calibration flight will follow in
due course.

pax britanica

17th Oct 2015, 11:48

St Helena is just a very isolated village and thus will never have mass tourism or much in the way of scheduled service.
Tourism will have to be very expensive to make it viable so rich people who want to see where Napolean died or go somewhere none of their friends have been will be the target.

I don't see them wanting to spend 5 hours ina ancient 733 configured for SAF internals .
But this sort of tourist is also the market sector covered by the specialised hi value hi cost organised 'world tours' where you visit eight or nine diverse and special locations over two or three weeks on a dedicated plane. The mighty 75 is a favourite for this kind of trip and they it seems can operate safely out of SHL so I can certainly see opportunities for addressing this top end market as an interesting stop over for a couple of days on a bespoke trip.

While I am well aware that Ascension is a military/spooky location and cannot be filed as an alternate it has I believe been used as such -Dl777 JNB-ATL so tis there if its really needed,

Its a heck of a lot of money though to build any form of acceptable airfield for such a tiny tiny market
PB

Heathrow Harry

17th Oct 2015, 17:05

"I don't see them wanting to spend 5 hours ina ancient 733 configured for SAF internals"

better than a week plus each way on an old boat which is the current option

Groundloop

19th Oct 2015, 08:18

Its a heck of a lot of money though to build any form of acceptable airfield for such a tiny tiny market

But considered cheaper than building and operating a replacement ship for the RMS St Helena.

Heathrow Harry

19th Oct 2015, 16:14

of course ships will still have to go there but it will be a commerical service when there's enough freight

probably 2-3 times a year I'd guess

very old flyer

24th Oct 2015, 10:16

The aircraft are new 737-800s, fully ETOPs compliant, with more on order for delivery 2016(?), in BA livery.
BA/Comair have the airport integrated into their simulator in Johannesburg.
All the islands supplies, food and fuel will still have to come in by sea.
Tourism is just a red-herring so that the relevant civil servants in the UK can give some sort of justification for the expenditure.
A ship to replace RMS St Helena would have been much cheaper in the short, medium and perhaps even long term. It just sounds so nineteenth century.
The Saints (islanders) wanted to have the service to Cape Town, as many have family and friends living there, and they are familiar with local hospitals.
Does anyone know the ICAO and IATA codes? Tried googling it but no answer.

Heathrow Harry

24th Oct 2015, 12:14

Hmmm - quite a lot of the Falklands Islands food comes in by air from Chile once a week in the LAN flight - plenty of space and weight available out of Punta Arenas

I'd expect the same for St Helena..........

750XL

24th Oct 2015, 13:02

IATA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Air_Transport_Association_airport_code): HLE – ICAO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation_Organization_airport_code): FHSH

very old flyer

24th Oct 2015, 15:04

Thank you 750XL.

HH
SCCI - EGYP 459 nm
SCCI - FHSH 3748 nm
EGYP - FHSH 3292 nm
Even Walvis Bay, FYWB - FHSH is 1221 nm.
GC tracks taken from Jeppe.
Don't think air supply is going to happen, unless we have something like the Berlin Airlift.
I have spent time on the Island, everything has to be brought in. Fuel for the return flights will come in via the sea.

Heathrow Harry

25th Oct 2015, 15:11

Well it'll be interesting to see jiust how many passengers they average - they should still be able to get a reasonable amount of cargo in the hold

canberra97

27th Oct 2015, 19:14

TUI-fly is the German brand of TUI rather than the British TUI, so does mean these flights will be undertaken by German registered aircraft rather than the UK registered aircraft if TUI Thomson?

Groundloop

28th Oct 2015, 08:38

ALL TUI owned airlines are to be rebranded as TUI - the Thomson name will be gone soon. Therefore it may be a UK registered aircraft.

ErwinFCG

28th Oct 2015, 09:24

This article, in German, states that the flights will be operated by TUI Netherlands (which was until last month known as Arke): Auftrag von Atlantic Star Airlines: Tui fliegt auf Napoleoninsel St. Helena - aeroTELEGRAPH (http://www.aerotelegraph.com/tui-fliegt-auf-napoleoninsel-st-helena)

G-AZUK

28th Oct 2015, 09:33

Gent quoted in the press release is from Arkefly so its fair to assume this will be on a Dutch unit.

750XL

28th Oct 2015, 10:03

I stand to be corrected but I don't think TUI 738's on the G- register are ETOPS.

They certainly don't have a two class cabin as stated in the press release.

enicalyth

28th Oct 2015, 10:36

Tickets for flights between the UK and St. Helena will go on sale at midday on Monday 2nd November 2015.

These flights, operated as charters by TUI-fly, will link the UK with St. Helena direct for the first time in history. In recognition of the event Atlantic Star and TUI-fly have allocated the flight number OR1502 for the southbound flight, reflecting the year St. Helena was discovered. The northbound flight will be the OR2002, the year that citizens of the British Overseas Territories became British Citizens.

An Economy ticket will cost £1299 including all taxes and charges. This price includes a 15kg hold baggage allowance and a 5kg carry on bag. Seating is 6 abreast with a 30” seat pitch. Service on board will include a meal on each sector and a complimentary bar serving both soft drinks and alcoholic beverages.

Economy Plus prices start at £1799 and includes an extra 3” of legroom, 4 abreast seating, sparkling wine included in the bar offering, executive lounge access and Fast Track through security at Gatwick.

Child seats are available at £799 which is less than the industry standard 2/3 of an adult fare reflecting Atlantic Star’s commitment to providing opportunities for families to travel to and from St. Helena.

Ticket sales will be conducted on behalf of Atlantic Star by TravelPack Ltd, a fully ATOL bonded and long-established UK travel agency, and can be purchased, from 2nd November, via our website or at the TravelPack Wembley shop. Tickets can also be purchased in person at Solomons travel shop in Jamestown, St. Helena.

END

Last word from the "e"

the contract is between Atlantic Star and TUI-fly and we as ppruners are not privy to the small print of how this will be accomplished, at least as yet. But the key players are I think being very forthcoming so there is little need to speculate. Also there is a lot yet to be done, most work is going swimmingly but there are some issues to be addressed that may delay timing. If you have not visited the St Helena Access website access site then do. OK phone lines are expensive and mail is slow but facts beat all. Especially as St Helenans answer phones in person without being told by an automated voice that your call is important to us blah blah for the next five minutes while your call charges go through the roof.

Still sailing......

Ddraig Goch

28th Oct 2015, 10:47

Thanks for the news on Atlantic Star, Enicalyth. Further to that info more details from Atlantic Star's website:

The countdown begins to ticket sales for our historic first flights

October 28, 2015

|Sorry about the part duplication but I posted before seeing Es last posting!

Atlantic Star Airlines

Tickets for flights between the UK and St. Helena will go on sale at midday on Monday 2nd November 2015.

These flights, operated as charters by TUI-fly, will link the UK with St. Helena direct for the first time in history. In recognition of the event Atlantic Star and TUI-fly have allocated the flight number OR1502 for the southbound flight, reflecting the year St. Helena was discovered. The northbound flight will be the OR2002, the year that citizens of the British Overseas Territories became British Citizens.

An Economy ticket will cost £1299 including all taxes and charges. This price includes a 15KG hold baggage allowance and a 5KG carry on bag. Seating is 6 abreast with a 30” seat pitch. Service on board will include a meal on each sector and a complimentary bar serving both soft drinks and alcoholic beverages.

Economy Plus prices start at £1799 and includes an extra 3” of legroom, 4 abreast seating, sparkling wine included in the bar offering, executive lounge access and Fast Track through security at Gatwick.

Child seats are available at £799 - which is less than the industry standard 2/3 of an adult fare reflecting Atlantic Star’s commitment to providing opportunities for families to travel to and from St. Helena.

Ticket prices are for a return trip.

Ticket sales will be conducted on behalf of Atlantic Star by TravelPack Ltd, a fully ATOL bonded and long-established UK travel agency, and can be purchased, from 2nd November, via our website or at the TravelPack Wembley shop. Tickets can also be purchased in person at Solomons travel shop in Jamestown, St. Helena.

Richard Brown, founder of Atlantic Star Airlines said "A tremendous amount of hard work has gone in behind the scenes by the team at Atlantic Star Airlines, TUI-fly, Air Charter Services and TravelPack to bring these charter flights together. We should also acknowledge the huge task that has faced UK DfID, St. Helena Government, Basil Read Construction and their associated staff and contractors in building an airport for St. Helena from the ground up. We wish them well in the forthcoming airport certification process and look forward to enjoying a smooth touchdown on the island at Easter 2016."

Andrew Radford, director at Atlantic Star added "I am thrilled to be at the point where we can finally realise our ambition of creating a service to serve St. Helena tourism and Saints the world over. We have received many messages of support for our concept of a direct service to London - now is the time for Saints and tourism providers to back our service by jumping on our historic first flights. I look forward to seeing both new and familiar faces on board and also of reacquainting myself with this unique and spectacular island destination."

Will they be weight restricted because of the length of the runway at St Helena or will the two class layout reduce the mtow enough to avoid this?

Sorry about the part duplication but I posted before seeing Es last posting!

enicalyth

3rd Nov 2015, 08:59

If you research companieshouse.gov.uk one can access details including history for any company. These days you do not need a gumshoe to check the premises out when Google Earth can do if for you.

Ddraig Goch

12th Nov 2015, 06:00

Latest news via the Atlantic Star website shows a delay in the opening of the airport.

Atlantic Star Airlines shares news of delay to opening date of St.Helena Airport

November 7, 2015

|

Atlantic Star Airlines

On Friday the team at Atlantic Star Airlines received notification from St.Helena Government of a short delay in the opening of St.Helena Airport, originally planned for February 2016 (see below).

The length of the delay has not yet been fully determined but SHG remain confident that the airport will be operational by the time of the official airport opening in May 2016.

It is unlikely that Atlantic Star's first flights from the UK to St.Helena will now take place at Easter 2016 - we will be consulting with our partners over the next few days to determine new dates that will be attractive both to Saints and visitors to St.Helena.

The team at Atlantic Star would like to emphasise that this eventuality was included in the contractual arrangements associated with the UK-St.Helena charter programme and as such the programme remains in place and commitments such as flight pricing will be unaffected by the delay.

We will continue to work with the Airport Access Team at SHG to establish the best course of action going forward and will of course communicate this to you, our friends and future customers, as soon as more information is available.

AIRPORT BOARD GRANTS ADDITIONAL TIME TO ACHIEVE OPERATIONAL READINESS (http://www.sainthelenaaccess.com/news/2015/11/06/airport-board-grants-additional-time-to-achieve-operational-readiness/)

The St Helena Airport Programme Board – comprising SHG, DFID, FCO and Basil Read – yesterday recommended that it would be necessary and prudent to grant a short period of additional time in order to fine tune the operational readiness of St Helena Airport.
The Programme Board does not anticipate a significant revision to the commencement date for commercial flights beyond the original projected date of late February 2016, but has recommended this pragmatic step now so that we can conclude the calibration works and other preparations for safe and secure commercial operations. Executive Council Members are in agreement, and we have conveyed this decision to Comair and Penspen.
Subject to final certification and operational readiness, the Board still expects St Helena Airport to be accepting commercial flights before the planned Official Opening of the Airport in May 2016.
As before, a decision on when to sell tickets for Comair flights will be made only when the Airport has been certified. To that end, we expect the regulator, Air Safety Support International, to visit St Helena in January 2016 to carry out a full inspection audit of the Airport’s compliance with aviation regulations and that will inform a decision on ticket sale timing.
SHG
6 November 2015

volare7266

13th Nov 2015, 08:29

Even before St. Helena Government announced the delay of the opening of the airport, on 31 October Atlantic Star had announced the following:

We regretfully inform you of a delay to commencement of ticket sales, originally planned for Monday. The reasons for the delay are complex, and in the spirit of maintaining open and honest communications we will share them with you.

In our ongoing dialogue with the Airport Access Team at SHG it has been brought to our attention a regulation that lies within the Air Navigation Order pertaining to the British Overseas Territories requiring us to have a specific Permission to go on sale. The team at SHG highlighted this to us this week and we are grateful to them for doing so. In no way are SHG trying to prevent Atlantic Star from operating from the UK to St. Helena but they are, quite rightly, making sure that we operate on a firm regulatory footing.

The specific regulation which we need to satisfy arises from the fact that we are not using a British carrier to operate the flights; TUI-fly will be using an aircraft operated by TUI Netherlands, registered in Holland. The aviation legislation that covers the British Overseas Territories is very unusual in that in certain areas it makes a distinction between British and non-British carriers. Almost all European aviation related legislation applies Europe-wide and carriers that are accredited in any one country share rights across all countries. Previously, when intending to use Titan Airways, the particular regulation did not apply, and the implications of using a replacement Dutch carrier were in this area overlooked. Atlantic Star take full responsibility for this oversight, it is our mistake, certainly not a mistake by SHG or TUI-fly.

globetrotter79

13th Nov 2015, 19:15

Unlike the French overseas Departments, the U.K. Overseas territories are not part of the EU. As such presumably any non-UK carrier would require cabotage rights for what is essentially a domestic service - by the "letter of the law" I'm pretty sure they'd also need to secure non-objections from all UK carriers capable of operating the service before the Department for Transport would consider agreeing to give them permits.

Ddraig Goch

4th Dec 2015, 14:11

News of the second calibration flight, with thanks to the St. Helena Independent :
Second Calibration Flight Planned for
Next Week
Plans are made for the second calibration flight to the St Helena
Airport. The first flight in September revealed that there were
problems with the performance of the DVOR (Doppler VHF
Omni Directional Radio Range) and the Localizer. These installations
have now been moved and the navigational instruments
should be ready for inspection through a calibration
flight. It has been suggested that the plane from South Africa
-led by Flight Calibration Services Limited (FCSL) working
with TAB Charters will be arriving next Saturday 12th December
and will continue the flights over the Island until 20th December.
After the initial calibration flight in September it immediately
stood clear that a second flight was needed and, at that stage,
staff involved guessed that a second flight could be undertaken
‘towards the end of the year’ . This now appears to
have come into fruition. It should be said that this schedule is
still subject to change. It is not known who has to pay the
additional cost for the further flight, Thales who installed the
equipment in the first place, Basil Read as the Design, build,
Operate contractor or DfID/SHG as the client. It would be
interesting to know.

TCAS FAN

4th Dec 2015, 14:40

Ddraig Goch

Formidable!

Are you sure they were moving the navaids? If this is correct it must be a world first, who's foreign aid budget is paying for it? I hope that its not the UK!

I cannot understand why a VOR is required, especially considering the terrain and the availability of RNAV. Must have been a very persuasive salesman!

If a ground based en-route/holding navaid is required an NDB will suffice, if necessary supplemented with a DME, one hell of a lot cheaper!

Ddraig Goch

11th Dec 2015, 10:59

With reference to today's St Helena Independent, some news about the next calibration flight:

The second round of Calibration Flights is planned to take
place between Sunday 13 December and Sunday 20 December
2015. The calibration flights are essential to calibrate
navigational aids at St Helena Airport in order that Instrument
Flight Procedures can be flown safely.
The calibration tests will be undertaken by Flight Calibration
Services Limited who will travel to St Helena on an aircraft
leased from TAB in South Africa.
Whilst final confirmation on timing is still awaited, the aircraft
is expected to arrive on the afternoon of Sunday 13December,
subject to suitable weather conditions and other factors.
Further updates, particularly on the timing of the flight, will be
provided in due course. Interested members of the public are
asked to listen out for radio updates.

Lets hope that the navigation and landing aids are in the right position this time!

Broken Biscuits

15th Dec 2015, 23:14

I too wondered about the provision of navaids for St Helena's new airport. It's got a localizer, DVOR, DME, NDB and GBAS (augmentation for GPS). About all they seem to have missed out is a VDF.

You could argue that the GBAS is all that's required but presumably they didn't want to limit operations in the event of GPS problems - it is in the tropics after all with the higher likelihood of ionospheric effects. And they're starting 1000 feet closer to the cloudbase with it's cliff-top location. Add in the fact that it's a shortish runway, quite a crosswind most of the year and probably severe turbulence as you approach the cliffs, pilots will need all the help they can to land safely.

Oh, and I forgot the high terrain all around - you'll want to remember to turn away from that smartish in the event of a go around!

All I can assume is that the engineers planning the airport played it safe and threw in every possible navaid that might be useful. After all, the navaids were probably quite a small percentage of the £250m of UK taxpayers' money that went to build it. (They shifted 8 million cubic metres of rock to fill in the ravine at one end of the runway - that didn't come cheap!)

It's a pity that the navaid siting was wrong. I am not sure why, but both the VOR and Localizer antennas have been moved. They no longer illuminate the sea - I suspect that there was severe cancellation of the signals at some distance/height due to reflection off the ocean. Another possibility is that the DVOR was located just metres away from Bradley's Camp - all metal buildings - used for the construction crew but also going to be converted into long term tourist accommodation.

So the choice of some navaids which may be unnecessary has come to bite them - the airport opening is delayed due to the reworking necessary on the VOR and LOC.

Incidentally, a second round of calibration flights is due this week (13 Dec 15) but I have not heard if the aircraft has arrived on island or not. Let's hope all calibrates OK this time.

volare7266

16th Dec 2015, 20:14

The aircraft for the second round of calibration flights has arrived on HLE Sunday 13 December. According to radio reports the aircraft unexpectedly landed on runway 02 (South-North). Calibration flights are expected to last for one week.

volare7266

18th Dec 2015, 08:26

Following discussions between Basil Read, SHG, DFID and Air Safety Support International (the aerodrome regulator, ASSI) - the visit by ASSI originally scheduled for the end of January 2016 has been rescheduled, and will take place at the earliest opportunity that suits all parties. The revised date will be announced once agreed.

This week, the second calibration flight will complete checks on the navigational aids, which were repositioned to ensure better signal quality and compliance with international regulations The data from these calibration flights will be sent to the UK and due to the complexity of the analysis and verification of the results, the final approved flight procedures for St Helena Airport (needed for commercial flight operations) may not be ready for publication until the latter part of January. In the interim, ASSI have also recommended that a second desk-top exercise be conducted in January between the Basil Read team located at St Helena Airport and the ASSI team in the UK. This will identify any outstanding certification issues prior to ASSI’s rescheduled visit to St Helena.

This information has naturally been shared with the air service provider, Comair, who will now look to reschedule their implementation flight to coincide with ASSI’s visit - as one of the certification requirements is to examine air traffic control procedures with an actual aircraft in operation.
This rescheduling of the ASSI visit will allow further time to ensure full operational readiness of St Helena Airport prior to their arrival on-Island.

SHG
17 December 2015

Ddraig Goch

31st Dec 2015, 13:46

Hi, I haven't been able to get any photo's or news of how the flights have gone. Anyone out there with info please post:)

Follow this link for the latest photos in and around the airport:

http://www.facebook.com/groups/sthelenaairport/

Happy New Year to all and sundry:)

volare7266

27th Jan 2016, 11:42

Over a month has now passed since the second round of calibration flights. Still no word if the problems with the navigational aids have been corrected and operations would be safe. Are no news really good news in this case ?

Ddraig Goch

29th Jan 2016, 10:53

Hot off the press from The St Helena Independent an update from Atlantic Star:

Dear Friends,
Thank you to those of you who have been in touch regarding
progress with our UK to St.Helena charter flights for 2016.
We have been quietly working through the necessary
permissions that are required by the UK Civil Aviation Author-
ity, UK Department of Transport, and St.Helena Government,
and we are now in a position to share a little more of where we
are in the process.
We have now established precisely what will be required by
each organisation and have agreed a means of providing the
necessary documentation for each of them. This has taken a
little longer than we would have liked but naturally the regula-
tion of a new airport in such a remote location means that
each step forward is taken with a good deal of caution. None-
theless we are confident that all of the necessary permissions
relating to our charter programme will be in place within a few
weeks from now.
This will allow us to release flight dates and times with cer-
tainty, but we have been advised that we will not be able to
commence ticket sales until the St.Helena airport certifica-
tion process is complete.
As many of you will know there has already been some de-
lays to the airport certification process associated with the
need to move some of the ground based navigation equip-
ment necessary for pilots to make safe approaches at
St.Helena. We are in contact with the Air Access Team at
St.Helena Government and are confident that all the hurdles
to certification will be overcome.
Based on the complexity of the certification process and the
work still to be done on the airport it would be premature to
give a precise date for certification and therefore we are not
yet able to announce the date that ticket sales will start.
We fully appreciate how frustrating this waiting period is for
those of you who wish to finalise 2016 travel plans. We share
that frustration and naturally we would love to be on sale right
now. We are certain that certification will be successful and
equally certain that our flights will take place as planned.
We have a provisional programme in place with TUIfly to pro-
vide two flights in late May and early June, a further pair in
October and a final pair around Christmas. We will provide
precise dates once our approval to operate from St.Helena
Government is in place.
We will provide more information by email and on our website
and social media channels as soon as the flight permissions
are in place. In the meantime thank you all for your continued
patience and support.
Warmest Regards
Richard Brown
Principal, Atlantic Star AirlinesA little more about the calibration process later in the paper:

Basil Read is currently taking part in a further round of desktop audits with the regulator, Air Safety
Support International (ASSI). Alongside this, work is progressing well on a number of fronts in relation to
preparation for Airport operations.

The outcome of the desktop audits is expected in February, and this will inform next steps, including the
requirements for an on-Island audit - needed in order to certify the Airport.

paultys

14th Feb 2016, 09:01

Just posting to receive notifications. Im currently going through ATC application but I live on St Helena so its all of great interest to hear different view points and how a professional group is viewing the whole situation.

enicalyth

14th Feb 2016, 19:15

Ha ha ha ha ha St Paul's!

Then you know and I know all there is to know. You will know my Auntie. Pika is her hash house harriers name.

I left the island to join the RAF. I am now a proud Aussie. But a true Saint. When I post SHG advises me to unpost. As it were.

Do drop me a line.

volare7266

16th Feb 2016, 17:45

Further delay of the airport opening on St. Helena reported by the Independent (UK)

Janet Lawrence, Saint Helena airport’s project director, said the construction of the airport had hit a snag because of the lie of the land. “Due to the unknown nature of building an airport on the island’s uneven terrain, changes in design had to be made to facilitate that,” she said.

TCAS FAN

16th Feb 2016, 18:45

Quote:

"Janet Lawrence, Saint Helena airport’s project director, said the construction of the airport had hit a snag because of the lie of the land. “Due to the unknown nature of building an airport on the island’s uneven terrain, changes in design had to be made to facilitate that,” she said".

You survey the "lay of the land" and consequently " the unknown nature of building an airport on the island’s uneven terrain" no longer becomes unknown, before any construction starts.

Would Ms Lawrence now cease the "spin" and tell everyone just exactly what the nature of the problem is? Something of an apparently fundamental nature that would delay opening the airport at this late stage could be seen as the sign of a enormous c**k up!

Ddraig Goch

17th Feb 2016, 12:09

Perhaps the quote from Janet “Due to the unknown nature of building an airport on the island’s uneven terrain, changes in design had to be made to facilitate that,” refers not to the construction ie hard stuff like the runway, buildings etc. but to the terrain surrounding the airport and their interaction with nav and landing aids, which because of where St Helena is and the position of the runway require more sophisticated equipment than your bog standard airport. I have been asking SHG for the results of the 2nd calibration flights without success for ages, there seems to be a conspiracy of silence with much that happens there!
I am afraid that many things run by the SHG tend to end up being not quite right! I hope I am wrong and the Airport does open as promised in May.
If the airport doesn't open perhaps it could be used a penal colony for all the civil servants involved in the scheme, to be sent there to break up the concrete etc by hand;);)
Well done volare7266 (http://www.pprune.org/members/451900-volare7266) in finding the piece from the paper!!!

Broken Biscuits

17th Feb 2016, 19:19

I take the deathly silence from the St Helena Government and their contractors Basil Read over the second round of calibration flights to mean the navaids still don't come up to spec, despite having been relocated. You would think that, if the calibrators had found all reasonably good that some sort of positive statement would have been made. Instead they talked about it all having to be analysed in London very carefully...

I wonder if they are considering certifying the aerodrome with limited navaids, e.g. NDB/DME approaches, or just using the GBAS (augmented GPS) system.

There might be big discussions going on about who is liable for the costs of the delayed opening, which may explain the public silence. There was one comment on a facebook page that one of the problems was due to reflections of the VOR and Localizer signals off the sea, which looks likely given that they appear to have moved both facilities back inland so that they don't significantly illuminate the sea. Now if that is the case, then it's a pretty basic failure of design. Perhaps it was because the appropriately skilled engineers didn't actually make a site visit (difficult with only access by sea)? We can only speculate given the news blackout from the project team and Government.

There's now about 90 odd days before the opening ceremony - I wonder if there'll be a plane on the apron to add some authenticity to the celebrations? Could always send an RAF C-130 I suppose...

WHBM

18th Feb 2016, 12:23

The lack of access for technical design staff must have been an issue.

I doubt that Basil Read have on their staff people who can specify and design navaids as part of their contract, they will have been just working as installers on something ordered separately. That's what you do in construction with technical equipment specified directly between the client and a specialist, you just programme in for it to be installed, it's known as a "nominated" supplier, ie the client says who it is, and is legally responsible, not the contractor.

It's surprising in a way that there haven't been further flights bringing in technical staff to identify and fix the problems, but I guess even a private charter would not get insurance to somewhere so remote with no navigation kit working. I always thought that as soon as the basic runway was done the rest of the project would be expedited by airfreighting labour and materials in by commercial C-130 from South Africa.

volare7266

18th Feb 2016, 18:06

A team of engineers from THALES has been on the island when the naviaids were installed. The THALES team then left and I am not sure if they returned at the time of the second calibration flights.

islandwatcher

18th Feb 2016, 20:32

I blog about St Helena and write for the St Helena Independent - a paper that relies partly on volunteer supporters. This forum seems to have been the trigger for stories in the UK national media. The Indy (on the island) is digging to find out what's going on.

Ddraig Goch

19th Feb 2016, 09:25

Welcome Islandwatcher to Pprune. I'm glad to hear that this thread is of use to the Islander's of St Helena viz a viz the UK media and hopefully it will lead to you being better informed by SHG. How they manage to both keep people in the dark and run the Island beggars belief. They seem to try to run things as if it were the 19th century. I hope things get better when the new Governor arrives, looking at her record she seems to be quite normal and not of the usual civil service type, fingers crossed!

The SH Independent does a good job in trying to expose some of the worse excesses but they have been thwarted in many investigations by SHG legal restraints put on them as you will know.:ugh:

BettyRubble

19th Feb 2016, 23:48

VOR probably no longer affected by reflections from the sea but I think they had to take metal security fence down to avoid interference. So I guess it will need re-calibrating when they put the fence back again?

Localiser probably better placed but decision height may be affected which might explain the silence from Basil Reed, SHG and DFID i.e. do they now put it back again?!

GBAS will help but may not be working for some time?

NDB/DME and GPS should suffice to get a/c to the island and on a visual approach...hence issue with higher d/h as well as a difficult approach, high terrain and possible cloud base issues (which I believe effect that area)?

Ddraig Goch

21st Feb 2016, 08:06

Hi BettyRubble and welcome to Pprune. Some very interesting info there, have you had some inside info or have you got a deep throat within SHG? I noticed in the latest edition of SH Independent some quotes from this thread about the going's on at the airport and how they had brought them to the notice of some of the UK Press - lets keep up the good work:ok:

volare7266

21st Feb 2016, 11:12

BettyRubble, if the metal security fence is too close to the VOR and causing the problems there wouldn't it be silly to put it up again ? They might have to find another type of fence or another security solution ...

volare7266

1st Mar 2016, 10:55

Late February Comaiir took delivery of a brand new Boeing 737-800 (ZS-ZWG) for the St.Helena route as the latest addition to its British Airways fleet The aircraft had to be fitted with electronic navigation aids for the long flight that will take place once a week. For the rest of the week it will be utilised on other Comair routes.
As reported by Moneyweb on 29 February 2016, Comair CEO Erik Venter said ticket sales for St Helena will commence as soon as the airport has been certified by the British Civil Aviation Authority. This, he said, should happen soon and the first flight will hopefully take place in May.
Venter said at first the passenger volumes to and from St Helena are expected to be low and the route will be subsidised by the British government. “We wouldn’t take all the risk on a route like that. We share the risk with the British government,” he said. Comair earlier won a tender by the British government to provide airlift into St Helena. In terms of the agreement the British government may reduce the price of flight tickets, for example to stimulate tourism.

While Comair gears up for the first St.Helena flight, on 01 March 2016 St.Helena's SaintFM radio station 'speculated' in the news that St.Helena Airport may not start operations until November.

WHBM

1st Mar 2016, 11:59

The UK Government's Department for International Development is renowned in Whitehall for not having the sharpest pencils in the box from the pool of civil servants, among other things they started this St Helena project by asking UK construction contractors to quote Fixed Price for the project without even giving the facility for those tendering to visit the project site and do a detailed engineering assessment. Among other things there's still a grudge in Whitehall against the construction contractors who built the Falklands airfield, a not dissimilar challenge, in the 1980s, and are felt to have "made a fortune".

One result is they seem to have inadequate budgetary provisions for all the variations and rework at the end of the project. It's generally true that if you go for the cheapest contractor, rather than mainstream ones you give continuing projects to, they will be looking for every little variation to be priced and confirmed before they start. Correcting design errors and identifying who will pay for this can start to really drag the project conclusion.

Top blunt pencil is the Secretary, Justine Greening, MP for Putney, who in an ill-starred brief stay heading the Department for Transport (until she was finally sussed by Cameron and moved to the dead water of the DfID) was renowned for being no friend of aviation, or anything to do with it, mainly on the basis that her millionaire neighbours on West Hill don't care for hearing inbounds to Heathrow passing by their Sunday morning cocktail parties. I suspect that Saints have a slightly different approach to life.

volare7266

2nd Mar 2016, 23:38

Comair's CEO Erik Venter about St. Helena Airport (Source BDlive 29 February 2016)
.
Test flights to the island’s new airport have been completed, but a date for the start of commercial flights has not yet been set.
Mr Venter said Comair was still waiting for certification of the airport in St Helena for ticket sales to begin.

I'm not sure what 'test flights' he means, the calibration flights ?

Ddraig Goch

12th Mar 2016, 08:40

A little news taken from the St Helena Independent of the 11 March:
Comair has now taken delivery of its brand new Boeing 737-
800 aircraft which will be used to serve St Helena Airport from
Johannesburg.
The actual aircraft, registration ZS-ZWG, is pictured in the
two photos attached.
Comair Chief Executive Officer, Erik Venter, said:
“The arrival of our newest addition is part of our ongoing fleet
upgrade strategy and an important step towards operating
the most modern and efficient fleet within southern Africa.
“We are very excited that this aircraft will be operating our St
Helena air service”.
The 737-800 aircraft is the second-longest plane in the 737
range, known for its fuel efficiency and spacious seating plan.
It is fitted with split-scimitar winglets - vertical wingtip exten-
sions that reduce drag and provide lift, cutting fuel consump-
tion and lowering the aircraft’s carbon footprint.
For the St Helena air service, the aircraft will be configured to
accommodate approximately 120 passengers.
SHG
4 March 2016

volare7266

12th Mar 2016, 10:20

Following the completion of additional desktop audits with the regulator, Air Safety Support International (ASSI) at the end of January, Basil Read has now progressed to the final round of desktop audits. Pending the outcome of these, the next step will be an on-site audit by ASSI. This is provisionally scheduled for early April 2016.

Source: St. Helena Tourism Blog 10 March 2016

Will be interesting to see how ASSI will come to the island early April. By ship, Beechcraft, 737-800 or else ...

Broken Biscuits

13th Mar 2016, 14:08

I have found some information on the new positions of the relocated navaids at St Helena Airport. The localizer antenna is now located much closer to the runway (as before, on the inland side) at the edge of the levelled strip, and its offset has been reduced from about 15 to 5 degrees.

The runway has a magnetic heading of about 196 degrees (from Google Earth and the magnetic variation) therefore the beam now gives an approach heading of about 201 degrees magnetic.

The VOR has been relocated on the same side as the localizer, approximately abeam the midpoint of the runway and about 850m directly behind the localizer antenna, so that the approach heading for a VOR/DME approach will be the same as that for the localizer/DME approach. It's interesting that with the reduced approach offset, the consequences of a late decision to go around from an approach have been significantly reduced.

The previous 15 degree offset had the aircraft heading directly for the high ground to the west of the runway (i.e. inland from the control tower/terminal) so a late decision to go around could have been catastrophic. By continuing on the new approach of 201 degrees magnetic, the aircraft should easily clear the high ground and get back safely over the sea, even if the left turn missed approach procedure is delayed.

The new position of the VOR may still problematic, however. Someone has already mentioned the metal security fence - this would almost certainly be a problem, running as it does (did?) parallel to the runway, just right to give a nice reflection out onto the approach path to runway 20. But its new location is even more of a problem for the opposite approach to runway 02. There are the terminal and combined buildings, fire rig and all sorts of metalwork out in that direction, and in particular the apron where any parked aircraft could cause reflections. So it may be that the VOR/DME approach to runway 02 will be unusable.

Since there is no localizer for runway 02, that only leaves a non-precision NDB/DME approach. However, this may be perfectly acceptable, as the prevailing winds probably mean that landing from the southerly direction will be extremely rare. (The NDB by the way has not been relocated, as far as I know - it is on the seaward side of the runway, roughly opposite the apron location.)

Of course, the ground based augmented satellite system (GBAS) has the possibility of providing good guidance to both runway directions. However, at present this is FAA certified to Category 1 only, the same as the localizer/DME approach, although in time this may be improved upon. But GBAS is dependent on ASSI approving its use. As far as I can tell from the Honeywall website, no UK overseas territory has yet had a GBAS system installed, so St Helena will be a first for ASSI to approve. (Oh, decisions, decisions!)

The recent announcement of the acquisition by COMAIR of a new aircraft for the St Helena route implied that it was fitted with "special" electronic navaid equipment - I assume this refers to the GBAS functionality needed to take advantage of the St Helena installation.

Ddraig Goch

14th Mar 2016, 08:22

Well done Broken Biscuits (http://www.pprune.org/members/452698-broken-biscuits) , great detective work to find out the information above.:ok:

enicalyth

14th Mar 2016, 14:10

Broken Biscuits I have all the released SHG documents from the invitation stages. Megabytes of pdf. As the St Helena Access website is a very large and slow download, I could share a quicker download with you to flesh out the bare bones. [Google Earth does have uncorrected errors because it is a flat plane mosaic and I have a host of other data plus some survey data already published but not widely known]. And I have the original DOS 71/4 Ladder Hill Astro Survey plus pristine 1:0000 prints and transparencies. You see I participated in the 1989 aerial survey of St Helena. I'd like to see your stuff plotted. If you already have the WS Atkins docs as published by SHG all well and good. It took me a whole day to download on an appallingly slow link. If not get in touch. Very well done, I know what it is like getting anything at all out of SHG.

enicalyth

17th Mar 2016, 18:52

Nothwithstanding all the issues to be resolved [including smartpath] Atlantic Star Airlines announces approval for its 2016 UK to St. Helena charter flight programme subject to airport certification being completed.

TravelPack Ltd is ticketing partner and initially flights will be from Luton with a stop at Banjul. The operator is the TUIfly branch of the Netherlands organistion using B737-800 aircraft.

The proposal is tentative and dependent on certification but The first flights will be on the following dates, operated on a Boeing 737-800 by TUIfly (Netherlands) under their flight number, prefix OR. Flights will stop briefly in Banjul (‘BJL’), Gambia, for re-fuel and a change of flight crew, in each direction. All times are expressed in local time.

Sunday 22? May
OR1502 LTN-BJL 2330-0450 (following day)
OR1502 BJL-HLE 0550-1045

Monday 23? May
OR2002 HLE-BJL 1145-1630
OR2002 BJL-LTN 1730-0040 (following day)

Sunday 5? June
OR1502 LTN-BJL 2330-0450 (following day)
OR1502 BJL-HLE 0550-1045

Monday 6? June
OR2002 HLE-BJL 1145-1630
OR2002 BJL-LTN 1730-0040 (following day)

Journey time in each direction is around 12 hours.

Ticket prices start at £1299 return inclusive of all fees and taxes.

volare7266

17th Mar 2016, 21:08

Thank you enicalyth. So it seems both UK and St. Helena governments have granted fifth freedom rights to Dutch TUi Fly Netherlands.

In today's Sentinel Atlantic Star confirmes, that Travel Pack ('as ticketing agent') will sell the tickets that will be Atol bonded. But who is the charterer ?
The charterer is the contractual partner of both the passengers and the operating carrier.

I guess the 'small print' will answer that once tickets go on sale.

WHBM

17th Mar 2016, 22:39

Presume a crew change in Banjul, with one crew operating from there to St Helena and back in one day. TUI appear to have other flights from Amsterdam to Banjul to interchange crews with.

What is their alternate for St Helena ? Presumably back to Banjul is impractical.

enicalyth

18th Mar 2016, 02:27

I understand that talks are ongoing.

Volare, are you saying that Atlantic Star is NOT the charterer?

Among the issues, and there are many, remain siting and "sighting" of the DVOR and clearance if any to use smartpath and when. Not just platitudes and waffle but in place, working and of course WORKING in the intended user airfcraft.

LTNman

18th Mar 2016, 06:27

The news section of the Atlantic Star website states that due to having to use St Helena in daylight hours only LTN would offer them a nighttime landing slot for 00:40

With a St Helena arrival and departure time of 10:45 and 11:45 why could they not bring the flight times forward by an hour or so to give them more flexibility in arriving in the UK before midnight?

enicalyth

18th Mar 2016, 11:45

LTNMAN you make me smile. St Helena is used to being bottom of the heap in more matters than flying. At least there are not many incoming flights after 23:30 UTC so all the connections are likely to have been made. In still air it is about 3hrs 48mins to Banjul at least from Gatwick it is and thence 4hrs 9mins to St Helena passing overhead Ascension. Winds at the 85% annual reliability are significant though not strong and because of low lying mists a "too early" arrival is not a good idea. The required Island Reserve for an A319/B738 class aircraft is about 5300kg not including contingency so it has to be finely judged. Then you have to get back. Now it becomes like cycling, it does not matter which direction you go there is always a 14 knot headwind. Add to that the price of fuel being 200% and I want my Island Resv to be as intact as possible and I don't want to use up too many of my limited flying hours. Nice try but I think you are being dealt the hand of cards.

volare7266

18th Mar 2016, 14:17

enicalyth, I don't know who is the charterer. I find it very strange that Atlantic Star is not telling that potential passengers. Atlantic Stars refers to Travel Pack only as their 'ticketing agent' only but not as the charterer of the aircraft.

The charterer is the contractual partner of both the passengers and the operating carrier. The charterer is responsible for making sure passengers don't get stranded somewhere. Therefore charterers are required by law to provide protection and be bonded. If the flights are ATOL protected the name of the charterer will be included in the list of ATOL bonded operators with a reference number. Until recently I have not found Atlantic Star in that list.

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=2

In the 'Sentinel' yesterday one could read the following from Atlantic Star:

CAA is not familiar with the brand new St. Helena Airport, so they are taking their time. They want to make sure that people can get back from the island if something goes wrong, but Atlantic Star are confident we will get the green light soon.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with airport certification.

enicalyth

19th Mar 2016, 09:17

I have used "companies house", the UK Govt service to find who is who and what standing they have. Anyone can do it and I would advise anyone intending to travel to do the same. Note particularly when company reports are due and if they done in time and how much financial backing they, credit ratings etc. It is like buying a house, securing a mortgage, arranging one's pension. The ordinary citizen is expected to show due diligence. Like you my advice is general and not directed towards any specific issue but I have been around a long time. My connections with St Helena are well known, likewise my nationality and the well-known airline I flew with.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/companies-house.

volare7266

19th Mar 2016, 10:28

Atlantic Star has just announced a 'Priority Club'

updated: ATLANTIC STAR AIRLINES LAUNCHES PRIORITY CLUB (http://us11.campaign-archive1.com/?u=50d3a26b32d0914a7b27fcd66&id=a4607b5aa0&e=ed3f44ceed)

enicalyth

19th Mar 2016, 11:39

Just an addendum to make it quite clear that certification of the airport and the role of SHG and others in the context the whole DBO affair has nothing to do with any airline or any other carrier. Indeed SHG will give you pretty short shrift if you as an intending consumer conflate the separate issues.

This is an enterprise economy and not an example of philanthropy in action, you as a an intending consumer share the risks so be aware of what that involves. I want to see the charterer's name not some ticketing agency whatever that means and I want to see the full ATOL details in the public domain. And much else besides but that will do for starters.

Heathrow Harry

20th Mar 2016, 17:09

you may not like the answers..............

enicalyth

21st Mar 2016, 11:43

Harry... don't I know it but I am trying to make it as clear as I can as a Saint, as Australian citizen, as a subject of Her Majesty plus many years in military and civil flying. Read the inquiry set up under Sacha Wass QC. It is about another matter but the Lady QC lays bare how things are done and not done on St Helena. The report pulls no punches and names names. It reveals is EXACTLY what it is like to live under the administration of such misrule even right now. As Terry Pratchett says "The Leopard Cannot Change its Shorts". [Do remember that the major employer on St Helena is "the Castle" and that will give a clue as to who the Leopard is and the state if his nether garments].

I commend you also to download from Companies House anything relevant to travel to St Helena in your future plans. If say company "A" has $300M cash at bank and company "B" has 50GBP weigh up if that is significant. Your call. And do ask around the trip advisor sites.

St Helena was my home, it is beautiful and full of character [clears his throat and opens another tin of Castle]. It certainly is another world and at times another planet and perhaps another century, not even the last.

Welcome Governor Lisa Phillips. Read the Latin inscription left by Adam Grandison on Ascension it means "Think Twice, Act Once" but the actual lettering is simply "Studiose". One word but it conveys a wealth of meaning. I'll tell you what is really in plo when you have eaten it and not before! Do enjoy your tenure.

hereford united

21st Mar 2016, 13:37

Atlantic Star Airlines Priority Club will open tomorrow.
It will make it clear to potential club members that they are NOT buying a ticket - they are simply joining a club and that once airport certification at St.Helena is completed their membership will give them first refusal to purchase tickets.
The charterer will be TravelPack Ltd who are ATOL bonded and have approval from UK CAA CPG for the Atlantic Star marketed charter programme. The consumer will be made aware of this fact and the contractual responsibilities it places on Travelpack at the time of booking.
The programme has had oversight from UK CAA as well as St.Helena Government and is the result of a great deal of work by Atlantic Star as marketing partner, Travelpack as charterer, Air Charter Srvice as charter broker and TUIfly NL as operator.
Those of you reading who are professional pilots will no doubt be aware of the challenges in operating to a location as isolated as "HLE" - be in no doubt that every precaution has been taken in building a safe and robust solution that meets these challenges.
To find out more visit atlanticstar (http://www.atlanticstarairlines.com)
Best Regards
Richard Brown
Atlantic Star Airlines

volare7266

21st Mar 2016, 20:19

The following can safely be said: Atlantic Star Airlines' statements have been grossly misleading:

ATLANTIC STAR AIRLINES GAINS REGULATORY APPROVAL

Atlantic Star Airlines (‘A-Star’) is pleased to announce approval for its 2016 UK to St.Helena charter flight programme.

The commercial permission granted to A-Star

as Atlantic Star Airlines Limited do neither hold a Tour Operator Certificate nor an Air Travel Organisers Licence. Amazing this is being tolerated or even condoned. It is now evident as per above posting this is a charter programme the company Travelpack Marketing and Leisure Services Ltd in London-Wembley (Travelpack) is offering. Travelpack is the charterer and contractual partner of passengers as well as of the operating carrier TUI Fly Netherlands.
Atlantic Star Airlines Limited is – strictly legally – only a marketing partner. This means, the authorities can only grant regulatory approval to the charterer Travelpack and the operating carrier TUI Fly Netherlands, but not Atlantic Star Airlines Limited. If something goes wrong Atlantic Star Airlines Limited cannot be held liable. Of course we wish all involved good luck but passengers clearly need to know whom they are dealing with before they book.

Well, we have to wait and see the 'small print' and 'Terms and Conditions'.of Travelpack. There could be additional ambiguities there. It is unclear if payments for the 'Priority Club' will go to Atlantic Star or Travelpack.

More about Travelpack can be found on their website, Google, Trip Advisor, Companies House and CAA .ATOL Search Results.

enicalyth

21st Mar 2016, 22:21

We know now that the Charterer is Travelpack, who are members of ABTA and there is an ATOL bond for stranded passengers. We all have the privilege of conducting background searches and can turn to the appropriate ombudsman. But there is such a thing as hearsay and some websites fall into that category. Take care.

It may come as a surprise to some to discover that Atlantic Star is not the service provider because that is probably what we all see. So it will be TUIfly Nederland who operate the aircraft and Travelpack for the rest.

It is down to us to read the fine print. Term and conditions apply. If you do not like the deal don't fly. This is not a scheduled airline but a charter flight. There is a delightful irony in all this as I think both Mr Brown and Volare know.

Best Regards

the "E"

hereford united

22nd Mar 2016, 08:38

All the relevant authorities (UK CAA, Dutch CAA, UK DoT, St.Helena Government, ASSI) associated with oversight of these 6 flights are more than satisfied with the contractual and operational arrangements. Atlantic Star is providing the marketing, communications, branding and capital to support the venture. Travelpack will provide customer interface, ticketing and ATOL protection. TUIfly will operate the flights and are happy with the contractual arrangements contained therein.

Customers will be presented with a clear set of terms and conditions before they fly on one of these services and their rights and contractual situation will be made crystal clear.

As you know unsubstantiated innuendo produced on these pages often leaks out into the outside world and becomes dressed up as "fact' or worse still "an expert opinion". I would ask that if anyone wishes to know the facts regarding these charters, or wishes to have sight of the contracts that underpin our activities that they contact me directly and I will be more than happy to provide access to same.

Many thanks for your interest in our ambitious project to provide flights direct from the UK to St.Helena in support of the aspirations of Saints and potential visitors to this amazing island.

Best Regards

Richard Brown

PAXboy

22nd Mar 2016, 11:45

Broken Biscuits
Someone has already mentioned the metal security fence - this would almost certainly be a problem, running as it does (did?) parallel to the runway, just right to give a nice reflection out onto the approach path to runway 20. But its new location is even more of a problem for the opposite approach to runway 02. Pardon me for asking a dumb question but - would someone who was planning navaids, not have asked someone who was building the infrastructure about fencing? At some point, they would both have been looking at plans that had dotted lines to represent fences.

volare7266

24th Mar 2016, 22:02

From their (very) small print:

Note, when purchasing a ticket promoted by Atlantic Star Airlines a contract will exist only between the passenger and TravelPack. There will be no contract between the passenger and Atlantic Star.

We are very pleased that Solomons of Saint Helena continue to support the Atlantic Star proposal, but wish to point out that in joining the Priority Club through them you are not entering in to any contractual relationship with Solomons. Solomons are kindly making it easier for island residents to pay the joining fee and they accept no further liability.

enicalyth

25th Mar 2016, 09:16

Atlantic Star is providing the marketing, communications, branding and capital to support the venture. [see Hereford united].

That does not mean ALL the capital and ALL the support. This is clearly a joint venture in which risks are shared otherwise I doubt if anything would happen at all.

Unlike scheduled transports where two or more airlines are in competition this is a charter. There are no other contenders vying for the proposed route. It us up to you the intending traveller to go or not because the only other way to get there is via South Africa. You have to weigh it all up, how much do you really want to go, how much are you willing to pay and how much loss are you willing to accept if it goes wrong.

Caveat emptor, Hobson's Choice, Buckley's or none all spring to mind. Some contributors have been helpful some less so. You have all had an airing, now vote with your wallets or spend your cash elsewhere. Enough is enough I think. The topic is airlines, airports and routes and we are straying more than slightly.

Ddraig Goch

5th Apr 2016, 07:49

Please follow this link to a very good photo report by Darrin Henry ( a local photographer) on the new terminal and other buildings:

The Brand New St Helena Airport Is Amazing | What The Saints Did Next (http://whatthesaintsdidnext.com/2016/04/05/the-brand-new-st-helena-airport-is-amazing/)

Heathrow Harry

5th Apr 2016, 11:03

that looks hideously overspecc'd for a couple of flights a week.......

a lot of UK airports woudl swap for that fit-out

paully

5th Apr 2016, 12:05

I have a feeling that this is another of `Call me Dave`s` grandiose overseas projects :ugh:

TCAS FAN

5th Apr 2016, 14:07

The Terminal Building looks fine, the lack of passengers reminds me of a number of UK regional airports during the winter months. Who is going to foot the ever increasing annual bill to keep the airport operational?

volare7266

5th Apr 2016, 15:17

Third round of calibration flights and ASSI expected this weekend.

That's the problem with new airports: by the time they open they are already too small. Darrin is right: with departing Saints escorted to the airport by family members and friends the terminal could quickly be overcrowded already :-)

This is not just 'another' airport, it is the lifeline of a most isolated place.

paully

5th Apr 2016, 18:15

Jeez..it isn`t opened yet and somebody wants an extension

canberra97

5th Apr 2016, 22:32

paully

You certainly like your 'hitting your head against a brick wall' emotion don't you! ��

paully

6th Apr 2016, 08:16

Sorry, didn`t know I`d offended you...I`ve removed it....trust that`s ok now..

volare7266

6th Apr 2016, 17:46

See here

FIRST JET AIRCRAFT TO LAND AT ST HELENA AIRPORT « St Helena (http://www.sainthelena.gov.sh/first-jet-aircraft-to-land-at-st-helena-airport/)

Heathrow Harry

7th Apr 2016, 08:43

"The one-way system used on previous flight days (to alleviate congestion in Longwood) cannot be used this time due to road building work beyond Reggie’s takeaway. An alternative system will be put in place to help manage traffic in the area, using the two parallel roads through Bottom Woods. This will be signposted and Police Officers will be on hand to assist motorists."

Awww.... bless 'em!!

Broken Biscuits

7th Apr 2016, 17:59

There's some more info escaped into the wild about the new airport's navaids and comms facilities. It's on the OpenAIP.net website.

There's two comm frequencies available, 119.1 for Approach and 118.2 MHz for Tower. With one flight a week I guess the same person will be manning both!

The Locator NDB is on 325 kHz, ident ST. VOR is on 113.1 MHz with co-located DME on the appropriate channel (78X), using ident SH. The localizer is on 109.3 MHz with ident HE.

There's no mention of the GBAS (GPS satellite augmentation system). This should have a VHF frequency allocated to it to carry the GPS correction signals to the aircraft. Perhaps ASSI are not going to certify this initially - possibly because they don't have any experience of such systems under their jurisdiction (and, of course, it wasn't invented here!).

It's interesting that now the VOR and DME are located roughly mid-runway the DME will be able to provide good distance to run info for the LOC/DME and VOR/DME approaches to runway 20, and also the possibility of an NDB/DME approach to runway 02 (the latter non-precision). The previous location of the VOR/DME next to Bradley's camp was inappropriate for this.

I agree with the comments above - Darrin Henry's pictures of the terminal show quite a plush arrangement. I guess you just can't downsize an airport that much even though it's only handling one or two flights a week. The massive earthworks cost to shift 8 million cu metres of rock to make the runway puts all the other expenditure into a relatively lower percentage, I should think.

enicalyth

8th Apr 2016, 08:03

BB

Most helpful. I have all the documents issued at the tender stage when the offset ILS was favoured. The argument against a centrally placed DVOR was anomalous propagation. The Bear's Back on Ascension springs to mind though the geology differs.

There is a ridge from Gregory's Battery through Cox's Battery and Turk's Cap; another is the feature of the Barn and the Haystack. So the offset ILS got the vote but the recce flight blew that plan apart so the chosen locations might look better to a casual eye but the fears and concerns of geology, terrain and anomalous propagation are still there.

As to the silence on "Smart Path" ASSI has left the matter open in the usual delightful way of mandarin-speak of "this time, next time, sometime, never". Shades of Norfolk Island! As and when it happens is down to ASSI/Honeywell.

Meanwhile what of EGSS-LFPO-FOOL-FHSH? I heard a lot about that behind the scenes at Paris and Farnborough a while back. Cash in on the French Connection with Napoleon.

volare7266

10th Apr 2016, 15:49

The first jet a Bombardier Challenger 300 registration ZS-ACT has landed today at HLE.
Next will most likely be Comair 737-800 implementation and first scheduled passenger flights before Royal guest HRH The Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex will land. And then the Dutch might return to the Island:oh:

Ddraig Goch

11th Apr 2016, 14:57

Thanks for that news volare. If you would like to see some pictures of the event go to: http://whatthesaintsdidnext.com/2016/04/10/jet-planes-and-goat-meat-curry-on-st-helena/

Thanks are due to to Darrin Henry for the photos and article.

volare7266

12th Apr 2016, 20:24

Comair Boeing 737-800 expected to land at HLE Monday 18 April 14:00 GMT
(as per a tweet by an invited 'VIP') :D
Return to JNB planned for Wed 20 April.

the_Inquisitor

13th Apr 2016, 14:56

Ddraig Goch

13th Apr 2016, 15:36

Thanks for that info Volare.

Follow the link for more info from Darrin Henry (keep up the good work)

http://whatthesaintsdidnext.com/2016/04/12/the-cost-of-flights-to-st-helena-island/

Jwscud

14th Apr 2016, 10:02

A cockpit video of the recent landing of a Challenger 300 has been uploaded:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24HJ7Dbcg4s

I just noticed that an AD chart has been published for FHSH as well: http://www.atns.com/downloads/FHSH%20AD%202-11.pdf

But why the hell are the runway numbers 02/20 when the direction is 179° and 379° respectively?

A first test flight with a B738 operated by Comair is expected to touch down on April 18th.
But why the hell are the runway numbers 02/20 when the direction is 179° and 379° respectively?

Those are the true headings (I believe you mean 359°?) - the magnetic headings are also given as 016° and 196° hence the runway numbers.

Variation is clearly still 17°W as it was when I was there in 2007 (I looked up my old Nav Workbook/sight book)

Broken Biscuits

14th Apr 2016, 16:02

Inquisitor - the convention is for runways to be designated by their magnetic bearings because aircraft basically use a magnetic compasses for navigation. VORs for example are calibrated to give magnetic bearings rather than true (except I believe for a few in polar regions where magnetic compasses are useless!). In the UK where magnetic variation is small, the magnetic and true headings are close, but in St Helena the variation is around 17 degrees - the runway headings are taken to the nearest 10 degrees and then the first 2 digits used as designators.
So for the runway on 179 degrees true, the magnetic heading would be about 196 degrees, taking the nearest 10 degrees makes it 200. Hence the designator "20".

That aerodrome diagram is interesting in that it gives the threshold elevations in metres (above sea level). Usually aircraft are given this figure in feet as that is the unit used normally for altitude or height information (except in places such as Russia where metres are used). So runway 20 has a threshold elevation of 1014 feet and 02 an elevation of 997 feet.

Chance of a bit of confusion there "QNH 1025, threshold elevation 1014 feet" - the ATCOs will have to be sure aircraft get it right! Get the QNH and elevation swapped around and you could have an error of 330 feet on approach.

Broken Biscuits

15th Apr 2016, 11:46

I see that ATNS, the South African ATS provider who are contracted to handle St Helena's aeronautical info, have now published the charts and other information regarding the airport. It is at ATNS: AIr Traffic Management (http://www.atns.co.za/~atnscoza/atm.php?id=113)
(or search ATNS St Helena project).

A couple of things stand out - the runway 20 VOR/DME procedure is presently "intentionally blank" - I wonder if the VOR is still considered a bit unreliable? There is also a comment that its range is "severely limited" from 210 to 010 degrees - obviously the effect of the terrain, but I'd have thought it might be OK at cruising altitudes.

The other interesting thing is that there is a separate DME associated with the Localizer (i.e. 109.3MHz paired with DME channel 30X). This means that pilots do not need to tune in one frequency for the localizer and another for the other DME which is co-located with the VOR.

There is no NDB/DME approach to runway 02 - only an RNP one. The NDB must be quite a powerful one as its range is quoted as 200nm.

No mention of GBAS apart from it is annotated on the aerodrome chart - there are four positions marked which maybe the GPS receiver locations (although I am surprised to see them so close together).

Various notes mention "Severe turbulence may be experienced close to terrain on approach" - not surprising for this cliff top location.

Jwscud

15th Apr 2016, 11:53

Good to see that "fastened high viz are required on the apron" - welcome to the world of high viz nazis.

Papa2Charlie

15th Apr 2016, 16:52

Is it just me or have the runway magnetic directions been mislabelled in the aerodrome chart? Typically I would expect Rwy 20 to have a bearing of 195-204 Mag yet it's listed as the reciprocal. Same goes for RWY 02.

Broken Biscuits

15th Apr 2016, 18:49

P2C - Well spotted, they've swapped around the numbers in the table on chart FHSH AD 2-11

Papa2Charlie

15th Apr 2016, 19:17

The same error is in the FHSH AD 2.12 (Runway Physical Characteristics) section of the AIP.

enicalyth

18th Apr 2016, 07:57

On its way??

B737-8LD ZS-ZWG Flight no CAW 8427 en-route as at 0755z crossing from Botswana into Namibia may be what you are expecting to arrive at HLE today 18-Apr-2016.

I'd say it was pretty certain, last waypoint crossed 2110S, can't be anything else.

PAXboy

18th Apr 2016, 09:30

I see that FR24 does not know the destination and the new airport is not yet in their database. They are now over the Atlantic.

enicalyth

18th Apr 2016, 10:36

On FR24 you won't hear a cheep from now on in because the service area is unsupported. They will report at 1800S/1800W whichever precedent you prefer as they cross hemispheres and at about S16 12 W005 and my estimate HE R130/40 is "heads up forty to go".

I spoke with "Auntie" Pika about an hour ago. [My passport says "Australia" but once a Saint always a Saint] and wow everyone is excited. If the Governor was a man he could expects a ducking but she is a woman. Mind you, she is a Brit... you never know and all the police, all ten of them, will be at the airport...

PAXboy

18th Apr 2016, 18:44

Yes, I could see them vanish from FR24. Perhaps, now, some enthusiastic Saint will set up a receiver and help join up the dots.

Ddraig Goch

19th Apr 2016, 07:40

Thanks to Darrin and Sharon Henry for these pictures and report :

http://whatthesaintsdidnext.com/2016/04/19/british-airways-737-800-first-landing-on-st-helena/

EuropeTraveller

19th Apr 2016, 10:08

Great video of first commercial aircraft landing at St Helena: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQiQtdq1C3g#action=share
Any thoughts on why there was a go-around at the second pass? Training or other issue perhaps?

Jwscud

19th Apr 2016, 10:22

Very nice.

The first one looks like a PR flyby, the second a bona fide go around after a bit of a float in the flare.

The 738 is a proper little bitch with Flap 40 in a gusty crosswind even without the unique terrain profile on offer so I don't envy crews flying in there one bit. I am guessing every approach will be max autobrake max reverse and plant it on the markers or go around .

I hope not too many Saints or tourists are nervous flyers!

Wycombe

19th Apr 2016, 12:14

Looks like conditions were a bit sporty - noticeable wingflex visible during the first flyby. A lot of dust on that runway also.

volare7266

20th Apr 2016, 20:38

EuropeTraveller The Comair pilot explained the go-around at the second pass was due to a windshear warning.

Air fares slashed by almost 50% even before airport certification.
HLE-LTN-HLE for May departure GBP 699 return :confused:

WHBM

21st Apr 2016, 05:46

Although the British Airways livery was prominent on the Comair 737, there has been no mention by BA themselves of this event at a British Overseas Territory. It does feel as if BA nowadays want to distance themselves as much as possible from the Comair relationship.

volare7266

21st Apr 2016, 17:27

I don't think so. As soon as the airport is certified flights will operate under BA flight number and also be sold by British Airways.

very old flyer

21st Apr 2016, 18:14

British Airways have an 11% share of BA/Comair according to the most recent shareholders report and do take an active interest in all activities of the airline.

01475

21st Apr 2016, 20:50

Air fares slashed by almost 50% even before airport certification.
HLE-LTN-HLE for May departure GBP 699 return :confused:
I think this route is going to come across a horrible image problem. I'm the sort of person that would go there just for the sake of going somewhere unusual, but after Googling Saint Helena I'm thinking that:

a) I don't want to go to that sort of place just incase it is true
b) I definitely don't want to take the chance of being seen as the sort of person that would go to that sort of place

Clearly it's not in the same league as Pitcairn, but it's still more than damaging enough!

underfire

22nd Apr 2016, 04:55

I guess this was a first? Empty 738 testing the runway?

Massive plane lands on tiny Atlantic runway - 9news.com.au (http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/04/22/13/01/massive-plane-lands-on-tiny-atlantic-runway)

chimbu warrior

22nd Apr 2016, 05:19

Originally believed to be too big to land on the tiny 1,850 metre runway, the empty South African aircraft slammed on its breaks as soon it touched down.

Aw c'mon, B737's (usually full of passengers) land on similar - and shorter - runways all the time. Unlike the example in this video, they usually touch down in the correct zone.

rmac2

22nd Apr 2016, 05:39

Looks like the wind will be a bit tricky around the approach end of that escarpment, especially if blowing straight down the runway at any velocity.

Cows getting bigger

22nd Apr 2016, 05:49

As one of the very few people who've landed at St Helena so far, I can say with some certainty that it can be rather sporty. There's a small matter of a big hill to the NW combined with a cliff in the undershoot which creates some interesting winds. I used to think Madeira was interesting. :ooh:

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/cockpitfootage.jpg

pax britanica

22nd Apr 2016, 06:15

I believe there is another thread telling the story of St Helena airport on here. But to summarise the airport was designed to cope with a 738 as the base case. It's in the middle of the south Atlantic and will only get one or two flights a week near term. Funded by uk tax payers to reduce dependence on aid it connects one of the last outposts of the world to the global airline network.
This was not the first flight as a King Air navaid calibrator did that but it is the first large aircraft. The single weekly scheduledflight is to Johannesburg and will see the retirement of the mixed pax cargo ship which has provided the only access for decades.
Can tourism work on a tiny island with few attractions except isolation and exclusivity who knows but the airport construction, an expensive task anyway was greatly complicated by lack of any flat terrain requiring extensive earthworks.
Diversion is back to SA or Namibia or closest of all the US airbase on Ascension Island St Helenas nearest neighbouring an hour's flight away but with a nice long runway.

pax britanica

22nd Apr 2016, 06:25

CGB
Is that pic taken from the calibrator aircraft? Certainly looks an interesting approach, is it restricted daytime / captains only? Can't see any approach lights in the pic.
The calibration trip must have been an adventure in itself with such a long over water trip in a King Air. Bit out of the ordinary?
Great picture and thanks for sharing

Cows getting bigger

22nd Apr 2016, 06:49

Pax yes, that's from the S. African operated King Air which was chartered to undertake the calibration flights.

Not sure on the various limitations as far as commercial operators are/will be concerned. There are approach lights on both ends and 20 has a relatively significant displaced threshold.

Another image (ruthlessly lifted from someone else):

http://southcoastsun.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2015/10/j44helena2.jpg

procede

22nd Apr 2016, 07:39

TUI Fly is going to operate the LGW-HLE flights with a stop in BJL (Gambia): https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g1-i10702-k8967010-Thomson_TUI_to_start_St_Helena_charter_not_with_Dreamliner-Air_Travel.html

Nightstop

22nd Apr 2016, 07:54

I think you'll find the flights originate in LTN:

Best value flights to St.Helena | Atlantic Star Airlines (http://www.atlanticstarairlines.com/)

I wouldn't mind having a go at St Helena, Madeira is getting a bit routine ;)

Ddraig Goch

22nd Apr 2016, 08:12

Can the Mods merge this thread with:

http://www.pprune.org/images/misc/navbits_start.gif (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/558321-st-helena-service-8.html#) PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/) > Misc. Forums (http://www.pprune.org/misc-forums-4/) > Airlines, Airports & Routes (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes-85/) http://www.pprune.org/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/558321-st-helena-service-8.html) St. Helena Service

Please

Tourist

22nd Apr 2016, 08:31

Please don't, this thread is interesting.

Don't hide it away in the netherworld forums....

Dan_Brown

22nd Apr 2016, 08:38

chimbu warrior

Totally agree. If that's one of the companies better pilot's, what are the rest like?

"Nerves of steel"? Gimme me a break

Nightstop

22nd Apr 2016, 08:53

Nothing wrong with that landing, the touchdown was between the first touchdown zone marking and the aiming point marking. Back to school you two :*

fireflybob

22nd Apr 2016, 09:13

Looking at the terrain I imagine that approach could be a bit sporty at times.

RAT 5

22nd Apr 2016, 10:08

The cliff rising up to the runway makes it look a great rotor generator; and no doubt there is always a good wind 'over the deck'. Pax loads and reserve fuel calculations might be interesting especially if you fancy 30 mins hold and 2 approaches.
From the photo it is not easy to see why there is a displaced threshold, or is it just a PCN thing. Meaning that the touchdown point leaves a lot of tarmac behind you. I remember a couple of decades ago a shorter BHX R33 & MAD RW32L and when clear visual it was not unheard of to touchdown just over the numbers. Then came OFDM and to avoid tea & biscuits it became necessary to effectively shorten the runway. Not too comfortable on a wet day or 5kts tailwind. But hey, it was a safety technological progress, right?
If the guys want some real practice before hand they could load up the a/c and try their hands at: Jersey, Inverness, I.O.M. Blackpool, Southampton, Southend. Who needs a sim when the real thing can do it better. You might have to sit around for a strong X-wind day, but hey, you can't have everything at once.
The decision making might be interesting. I wonder if companies will add a 'point of decision' in their planning? To continue or turn back or divert?

Tourist

22nd Apr 2016, 10:32

chimbu warrior

Totally agree. If that's one of the companies better pilot's, what are the rest like?

"Nerves of steel"? Gimme me a break
Have you ever landed on a cliff-top runway with quite that dramatic topography?

If not, then why not get back to flight-sim until you have?

Scuffers

22nd Apr 2016, 11:13

Is 1,850M really such a short runway?

quick look at the spec for the A350 states a Landing distance at SL, ISA, MLW of 1,860M

dusk2dawn

22nd Apr 2016, 12:08

Maersk did FAE for years on 1250 meters with 373/4/5.

Doors to Automatic

22nd Apr 2016, 12:14

That aircraft looks very smart in BA livery - love the Union Flag markings on the winglets!

mathy

22nd Apr 2016, 14:13

Er,

Who said the aircraft was EMPTY? Try 95% fuel and ballast for 100 pax. Then take out your "flaptop"/FPPM and plug in Vasur 3A departure and some due diligence before uttering. Facts before opinions , opinions before speculation. And another thing if you have anything to say about BA/Comair/Kulula then there is a high chance someone reading this works for the company you are waffling on about.

Heathrow Harry

22nd Apr 2016, 16:52

having been on a number of "interesting" approaches to places like Funchal I wouldn't want to slag off anyone who can get the aeroplane down in one peice on the basis of a U-tube link

First time in you'd expect it to be a bit wobbly..................

PAXboy

22nd Apr 2016, 19:33

So someone can judge how the very FIRST landing of an aircraft type and at a most unusual field should have been done? Fantastic armchair judgement of the winds and conditions to avoid making a rather nasty headline and a photo of the tail disappearing over the edge ...

Broken Biscuits

22nd Apr 2016, 20:15

Well, it's been an exciting week on St Helena with the successful operation of the Comair implementation flight on Monday. (There's a good video available on the St Helena Government facebook site).

In the video, you will see that the aircraft turns onto the apron initially following the guideline for stand A1, then turns left to park in the middle of the apron between stands A1 and A2. (See the parking diagram in doc FHSH 2-12: available on the ATNS website under "Products and Services", "ATM" and "Projects".) Thus the passenger door was on the runway side of the apron, rather than the terminal side.

I wonder if this is how they intend to operate normally when there is only a single aircraft expected? Eventually there will be times when there will be two aircraft on the apron at the same time. I'd have thought that ground staff would be better served by parking a single aircraft on stand A1 or A2 so that they have experience of getting the aircraft parked correctly. When two aircraft are on the ground together, accurate parking will be necessary in order for each aircraft to safely power out of the parking position on departure.

I do have some sympathy for the marshallers at the airport. I am assuming they will be locally employed St Helenians (at least eventually, if not at first). Their chances of becoming and remaining competent at marshalling are probably limited by the fact that they will handle only one or two flights a week.

If they, or a pilot, gets it wrong, the aircraft could be stopped in a position where it is impossible to power out for departure. As I believe there are no tugs on the airport, how would such a situation be handled? Lots of men pulling on ropes?

Incidentally, that video has some shots of people talking with a decidedly brisk wind blowing - nicely illustrating one of the problems with this elevated location! And the windsock shows it's a strongish crosswind component.

Ddraig Goch

25th Apr 2016, 08:24

Follow this link to St Helena Local for video news of the first Comair landing plus older videos of Airport and flight news:
ZS-ZWG | Info related to St Helena, forum, news, Information and some Airport updates. (http://www.sthelenalocal.com/tag/zs-zwg/)

enicalyth

26th Apr 2016, 10:37

Broken Biscuits

I knew someone who worked for the Broken Biscuit Company aka the BBC! Lived in an adjacent cottage and supped ale. At any rate I have data you may appreciate. Not a large file.

Avnu

26th Apr 2016, 16:41

The official opening of the airport (and the start of scheduled flights) has been postponed. The airport and Comair want to further investigate issues of windshear and turbulence that came up with the implementation flight.

More at http://www.sainthelena.gov.sh/airport-opening-ceremony-postponed/

the_Inquisitor

26th Apr 2016, 21:19

Perhaps they should have followed Atkins' advice given in the feasibility study from 2005

FLIGHT TESTING
7.82 The designs of the aerodrome options on Prosperous Bay Plain have been undertaken in
a rigorous manner and while there is high confidence in the designs and the associated
cost estimates, they remain concepts. There are doubts concerning local weather
conditions and, in particular, there are doubts about the amount of turbulence that could be
expected on the approaches (due to the elevated location and the surrounding bluffs). It is
therefore recommended that, regardless of which aerodrome option is chosen and before
the runway design is finalised, a charter aircraft should fly test the approaches to and
departures from the intended runway. This would ensure confidence in the final design and
may be regarded as part of the design process applicable to St Helena’s circumstances.
The most suitable aircraft for this would be the four-engine L 100 Hercules: this could route
via Ascension Island for refuelling and crew rest stops. A cost estimate of £¦¦ to cover the
aircraft charter and ancillary costs has been included in the Financial / Economic model for
this purpose, for each access option.

http://www.sainthelenaaccess.com/application/documents/Feasibility/01_Main_Report_Final.pdf, p 117

750XL

26th Apr 2016, 21:41

Broken Biscuits

26th Apr 2016, 21:46

Wow - opening of the airport delayed - that's a biggy. Depending on how long the delay is could affect the removal from service of the RMS St Helena.
South Atlantic Media Services says on its facebook page that there is a rumour that Comair are looking at using a "smaller plane".
If that is true, it puts the whole economics of the operation in a different light - lower tourist revenues both for the airline and the island in general (and maybe longer UK Government subsidy).
One thing which the Comair Ops Director mentioned in interview was that the turbulence and windshear seems to be less of an issue for runway 02, but using that routinely would mean accepting a significant tailwind. And besides that, the localizer is set up only for Runway 20.
Of course, it all depends how much of a smaller plane they're thinking about. If it has significantly smaller range, it could mean a refuelling stop at Walvis Bay, for example.
And what would a different plane do to the fares that have been quoted?
Developments eagerly awaited!

virginblue

26th Apr 2016, 22:17

Smaller aircraft in Comair's case can only mean a 737-400 instead of a -800. They have the same number of seats as the two-class -800 and the single class -800 only has 12 additional seats.

volare7266

26th Apr 2016, 22:39

It was mentioned 'smaller aircraft with approx. 40 seats'. That would point towards CRJ or Embraer and necessitate a fuel stop at e.g. Walvis Bay.

Interestingly there are speculations in South Africa Comair might acquire 'another company', More speculations ? Maybe SA Airlink, and they have the smaller jets ...

LTNman

27th Apr 2016, 04:33

So does that mean the UK service is going to be delayed as although the official opening has been delayed it doesn't necessarily mean the airport is closed?

rog747

27th Apr 2016, 07:18

So does that mean the UK service is going to be delayed as although the official opening has been delayed it doesn't necessarily mean the airport is closed?
the UK service is also going to be operated by a Boeing 738 of Dutch TUI so therefore all concerned will no doubt be looking closely at the outcome of Comair's findings after their trial flights last week.
see Atlantic stars latest announcement last night https://facebook.com/atlanticstarairlines/

As mentioned by 738 drivers the a/c is a slippery little so and so in the conditions prevalent at HLE and last weeks first landing was lightly loaded ( 50 pax) and the other test flights undertaken by Comair last week thru til Weds were afaik not loaded

the UK LTN-BJL-HLE service has to be loaded to make money -- will the TUI a/c be limited on payload (usually 189 Y) but I see she is in a lower density 2 class W/Y fit and do they sell (or will have rights to sell) the LTN-BJL sector in which case some pax will disembark at BJL anyway - I dont see fares for BJL though.
Best value flights to St.Helena | Atlantic Star Airlines (http://www.atlanticstarairlines.com/#!our-partners/z2grk)

Best value flights to St.Helena | Atlantic Star Airlines (http://www.atlanticstarairlines.com/)

As for rumour talk of maybe now using a smaller a/c for BA/Comair to op JNB-HLE - the new 738 has been obtained especially for this new route so no doubt Comair will be working hard to get this a/c and her crews happy and safe to operate the route in the most challenging of weather.

The 757 would probably been a better candidate for the route from either the UK or the RSA but I guess they are too old now to be considered but they do still have their niche mission needs and this could have been one of them
here is a video of the 757 in action at the tiny Greek island of Skiathos with a very short runway and some challenging winds ( not as bad as HLE or FNC but still can make you busy )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACebJfOMOTQ

ps
amazing videos of the BA 738 inaugural fly by, GA and landing on the 'tube'

virginblue

27th Apr 2016, 08:41

rog747

27th Apr 2016, 08:56

I would be surprised if all-737 Comair would acquire a smaller aircraft only to serve a single destination on a weekly basis. So we are most likely looking at a lease on a case by case basis.

Walvis Bay - St. Helena is 1.400m as the crow flies, so we are talking about an Embraer 135/145 or a CRJ200. Certaibly not the type of aircraft the locals need - not comfortwise, but to bring back goods as freight from visits to South Africa which probably is much more important on this route than almost everywhere else.
indeed a regional jet is Not going to be anyway close for the mission needs...for both operationally nor economically

can a pax CRJ/EMB even cope with such windy condtions - I have no idea of their limits
and how can you get bulk freight on one lol

fireflybob

27th Apr 2016, 10:24

the UK LTN-BJL-HLE service has to be loaded to make money -- will the TUI a/c be limited on payload (usually 189 Y) but I see she is in a lower density 2 class W/Y fit and do they sell (or will have rights to sell) the LTN-BJL sector in which case some pax will disembark at BJL anyway - I dont see fares for BJL though.

I believe the load on this one is being limited to 13,000 kgs = 140 pax?

Would they be carrying island reserve as the alternates are a long way from St Helena?

Jwscud

27th Apr 2016, 10:27

If they could make it work fuel and economy wise with a Classic from a driver's perspective it would be a lot easier as the classics have far more benign handling qualities in gusty conditions than the NG.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like the Comair crew who went in there (who I imagine were probably senior TREs/Performance pilots) weren't massively comfortable and probably want to develop a better knowledge base and a serious training program before making a decision either way. I am sure it will be a Cat C airport requiring special crew training anyway and they currently have a limited knowledge base.

Perversely, a heavier aircraft might make things easier for the crew than an empty one - below 60t the 738 gets significantly less stable in gusty conditions. Test flights in a Hercules would not necessarily have told you much as conditions a prop driven transport might find perfectly manageable could be a no go in a swept wing jet.

rog747

27th Apr 2016, 10:54

the Comair crew operating last weeks flights are interviewed on the YouTube clips by the local news hack guy - quite interesting to watch and see their comments about the winds etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vndwvM6ieTw move onto 4m.20s

He did not hint at all then they have now to go back to the table to re-look at the data etc

the crew were the CP and senior operating officer etc etc

the guy who did the landing was the chap who had done all the planning

mathy

27th Apr 2016, 11:49

Please look at the necessary requirements regarding nav fit-out, fire suppression etc before posting. Some of your remarks are unprofessional.

If you try to load the "Island Resv" you will probably find yourself overweight for FHSH and its short runway. If you consult your lap top, FPPM, FCOM in that order you are well placed to comment. If you haven't or can't then take care not to say anything foolish. Ju

Now, going on from there let us say that a landing weight of 57 tonnes applies, there are no defects everything is tickety boo.

Landing Distance (LFL*0.6) 3030 feet by my laptop
Landing Ground Roll 1670 feet ditto

Is that not average deceleration of 15.5 ft/sec/sec? You check it for me.

FAOR FHSH
TO FUEL 14300kg: Zero Wind ISA Conditions: FIELD AND WT LIMITED
Payload 11000kg pax and bags
Flt Time 280mins
Air Dist 2029 am [zero wind ISA remember]
RoC 1520fpm
RoD 1470fpm
Mach No 0.783 nominal
Nett AS 434kts
Nett GS 434kts

FUEL 14300kg
OEW 42200kg
ZFW 53200kg
TOW 67500kg

DIV/ISLD 1600 kg 2400 kg/hr 40.0 min 320.0nm
HOLD 1600 kg 2400 kg/hr 40.0 min
CONT 620 kg inc start and taxi
TOTRES 3820 kg so it cannot be Island Resv but a "re-dispatch"
LDG 57020kg

Now go back and check and you will see that at 60 tonnes all up you might have to go back to Windhoek!

I was going to add more but it would not fit this page. No matter. But you have to be diligent. You have to do your sums and if the answer does not pan out then what you are proposing is not operationally possible

I hope this has helped and is not too simplistic.

Thank you.

rog747

27th Apr 2016, 12:15

the comair guys hinted landing on RWY 02 is calmer but which has no localiser and will always have a tailwind comp.

Jwscud

27th Apr 2016, 19:11

The lack of a localiser isn't a huge issue as far as I can see as the RNAV approach is straight in and has usable minima.

As far as I can see, the issue are entirely performance and handling related with the Orographic turbulence and Windshear and prevailing winds.

A quick play with the Boeing OPT suggests with a 10kt tailwind and an OAT of 25° (20kt quartering tailwind with 17kt SW) and no reverser credit at 57t Max Autobrake has you stopped in 1338m so you have a good few hundred meters for mum in terms of runway length.

I am only going by tables for dispatch landing weight but surely you could legally dispatch assuming the into wind runway allowing a higher dispatch landing weight then use the inflight performance onto the opposite runway if conditions are too rough? With a 5kt headwind you could dispatch up to 60t MLW. All getting a bit performance geeky but ultimately as long as the flight ops guys think the operation is safe in the prevailing conditions, I can't see too many performance issues.

RAT 5

27th Apr 2016, 19:30

so you have a good few hundred meters for mum in terms of runway length.

And to ensure you have a solid escape route = div altn for mum as well. People talk about the B734 being better than B738. There is also the B737NG. In the environment where I operated all three I can't remember having any significant landing difficulties. NG slippery in descent, yes. However, there was a significant difference in engine & wing performance between classic & NG in terms of payload & range. That might have more affect on such a route than the rock & roll of the last 500'.

fireflybob

27th Apr 2016, 20:12

Where would they use as an alternate? Windhoek is 1,367 nm on the GC from St Helena.

And to ensure you have a solid escape route = div altn for mum as well. People talk about the B734 being better than B738. There is also the B737NG. In the environment where I operated all three I can't remember having any significant landing difficulties. NG slippery in descent, yes. However, there was a significant difference in engine & wing performance between classic & NG in terms of payload & range. That might have more affect on such a route than the rock & roll of the last 500'.

RAT 5, I agree.

Ddraig Goch

28th Apr 2016, 11:41

To answer your question fireflybob, to the best of my knowledge the US authorities have agreed to allow Ascension to be used for diversions and 1 scheduled flight every 2 weeks. Wideawake airfield is about 700 nmi away GC.
I really hope that procedures or systems can be found to get round the problem with the orthographic winds.

Does anyone know of other airfields besides Madeira where these kind of problems have to be overcome?

goldeneye

28th Apr 2016, 11:52

Will the Comair flights be bookable with connections to and from London on BA.

CabinCrewe

28th Apr 2016, 18:41

http://www.sainthelena.gov.sh/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/British-Airways-operated-by-Comair-ready-to-serve-the-Saints-12-April-2016.pdf

LTNman

29th Apr 2016, 04:27

St Helena airport opening postponed - again | News | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/st-helena-airport-opening-postponed-again-a7002226.html)

The Independent also reporting the postponement of the Atlantic Star service from Luton as well as the Royal opening ceremony

rog747

29th Apr 2016, 09:39

i do not know why CPT has not been mooted for a scheduled service as tourism and wealth there would attract many people to do a trip over to the island.

or is CPT next on the list?

canberra97

29th Apr 2016, 23:29

Cape Town is actually slightly further than Johanesburg to St Helena plus it offers far more connections than Cape Town.

RAT 5

29th Apr 2016, 23:51

I really hope that procedures or systems can be found to get round the problem with the orthographic winds.

Do you mean 'orographic' winds? What kind of 'procedures' & 'systems' to you have in mind beyond piloting skills?
Regarding airfields with wind problems = most of the Greek islands, Gibraltar, LTN on a nasty 1/4 wind gusty day; NCE, GRO, GEN, Santander, and many others. They may not all be orographic wind problems, some will be rotor from local hills. Even katabatic effects at night. Many of the sea-side airfields squeezed in between hills and the beach will give problems.

very old flyer

30th Apr 2016, 13:48

rog747

30th Apr 2016, 15:00

Johannesburg to St Helena is 1987 nm.
Cape Town to St Helena is 1701 nm.
Even Cape Town to St Helena via Walvis Bay is 1912nm, following the coast before heading out.
Distances using Jeppe.
Cape Town route is preferred by the majority of Saints, and there are sufficient onward connections from there.
that is what i always thought that CPT was more desirable for the locals and tourists who can combine a 2 centre holiday with the Cape plus decent onwards connections to Europe with BA and KL and more high-seasonal ones from CPT
(BA LH KL TK EK QR MH SQ AB DE MT)

CPT-HLE is about 3100 kms
JNB-HLE is about 3660 kms

the new BA 738 could op JNB-CPT-HLE-CPT-JNB surely a benefit to all concerned - the FD crew needed for HLE special clearance ops gets on in CPT

i dont get why this hasn't been done from the start

volare7266

30th Apr 2016, 18:39

i always thought that CPT was more desirable for the locals and tourists who can combine a 2 centre holiday with the Cape plus decent onwards connections to Europe with BA and KL and more high-seasonal ones from CPT
(BA LH KL TK EK QR MH SQ AB DE MT)

CPT-HLE is about 3100 kms
JNB-HLE is about 3660 kms

the new BA 738 could op JNB-CPT-HLE-CPT-JNB surely a benefit to all concerned - the FD crew needed for HLE special clearance ops gets on in CPT

i dont get why this hasn't been done from the start

I fully agree that CPT is much more popular with Saints and tourists as well. JNB makes no sense at all. Someone must have been blinded by all those 'fantastic' connections in JNB from places like Gaborone, Maseru, Manzini, Lagos, Lubumbashi, Ndola, Kigali, Maputo and so on ...

The most important early connections from London are 'high risk connections with a transit time of only 1,5 h. BA 55 from time to time arrives late 3, 5 or even 12 hours.

But now everything is up in the air anyway. It seems Comair is not keen any longer to fly to HLE, the 737-800 a 'slippery' plane under the wind conditions on the island. There are reports the Government is already looking for alternatives. And I don't see how ASSI could give a green light if airlines have such serious concerns.

Back to the drawing board !

fireflybob

30th Apr 2016, 21:29

the 737-800 a 'slippery' plane under the wind conditions on the island.

Regarding airfields with wind problems = most of the Greek islands, Gibraltar, LTN on a nasty 1/4 wind gusty day; NCE, GRO, GEN, Santander, and many others. They may not all be orographic wind problems, some will be rotor from local hills. Even katabatic effects at night. Many of the sea-side airfields squeezed in between hills and the beach will give problems.

I'm with RAT 5 on this - if you're familiar with the 737-800 it would I'm sure be quite manageable - I can't imagine it is any worse than many other airfields in the world that this type regularly flies to.

rog747

1st May 2016, 07:36

any s/h 757's in good nick knocking around?

Ddraig Goch

4th May 2016, 05:34

Another possible problem with the airport and flights to St Helena has raised it head with reports that Comair could loose it's operators licence on May 11th. See this link for further info:
Is St Helena?s Airport about to face another issue because of Comair?s licensing conditions? - Info related to St Helena, forum, news, Information and some Airport updates. (http://www.sthelenalocal.com/st-helenas-airport-face-another-issue-comairs-licensing-conditions/)

Broken Biscuits

5th May 2016, 18:06

I wonder if anyone knows definitively why the VOR and localizer positions were moved on St Helena? I kind of initially assumed that it was due to terrain reflections, and specifically for the VOR the fact that it was sited metres from the metal buildings at Bradleys construction camp.
However, I saw a comment on facebook from someone in South Africa that the problem was due to reflection off the sea.

I looked up the FAA document "Siting Criteria for VOR etc" (search for FAA doc 6820) and it specifically says that Doppler VORs are not affected by cliff top locations. (This is due to the fact that the circular earth counterpoise tends to cut off radiation below the horizon.) So my guess is the the VOR on St Helena was affected by the close proximity to the buildings.

(I know of DVORs on elevated locations which appear to work normally, e.g. the Praslin VOR in Seychelles - so this tends to support the above analysis.)

However, the localizer looks to me to be a prime candidate for sea reflections. Localizers are usually located at the far end of the runway they serve, so a "cliff top" position is difficult to achieve. However, on St Helena, because of the offset approach, it was located on a raised embankment near runway 20 threshold, so clearly illuminated the sea. The new location is lower down and so I think that it doesn't have such a view of the sea and this probably means there are no significant reflection problems.

Incidentally, in its new location the VOR is adjacent to the middle of the runway, and, unusually, the counterpoise is mounted on the ground (clearly visible in the recent videos of the 737-800 landing). The equipment shelter is located a few metres on the western side so this will have a significant effect on the radiation patterns, I should think. This is besides all the other buildings, terrain and fences etc around. The aerodrome info clearly states that the VOR is unreliable in the western sector so I wonder if it will ever provide a useful guidance aid?

Buster the Bear

5th May 2016, 23:18

www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/st-helena-airport-postponed-madeira-diversion-a7013806.html

rjtjrt

6th May 2016, 06:44

Has the RMS St.Helena ship service been extended and the extension announced?

Ddraig Goch

6th May 2016, 07:37

A good question ritjrt. The saints await with bated breath to find out from the new Governor " what are we going to do now?" . The plan was to take the RMS out of service in July, she is actually up for sale at the moment with London shipbrokers CW Kellock if you fancy a bid!

Ddraig Goch

6th May 2016, 15:23

Reading today's wonderful St Helena Independent there is a little more info from SHG about the wind shear problem and to what is happening with the RMS :
ST HELENA AIRPORT - UPDATE ON ACTIONS
St Helena Government announced on Tuesday 26 April 2016
that the Official Opening of St Helena Airport, originally planned
for 21 May 2016, had been postponed whilst further opera-
tional and safety work is undertaken. The Comair Implemen-
tation Flight on 18 April experienced turbulence and wind shear
and further work is now underway to gather additional data
and put in place mitigation measures to ensure the safe op-
eration of passenger flights to and from St Helena Airport.
The safety of aircraft and passengers is, of course, para-
mount.
There have been several successful landings at St Helena
Airport - the Calibration Flights in September and December
2015 and Execujet (Certification) and Comair (Implementa-
tion) in April 2016. Each landing has provided us with infor-
mation that will be used to inform our work.
This work has been progressing rapidly and this press re-
lease outlines what is being done.
Current Actions
· Planning is underway to ensure continued access to
St Helena. As part of this process - and although there are
no current plans to extend RMS operations - this is being
kept under review. We are also examining ways to ensure
medivac flights are enabled
· Specific steps are being taken to address turbulence
and wind shear
· This work will include analysis of all available and new
data, including weather data, plus formal reports from pilots
of all aircraft that have landed at St Helena Airport. Reports
on wind conditions will be maintained and regularly updated
and consideration will be given to installing specialised equip-
ment
· Computer modelling is also being developed to test dif-
ferent scenarios. Calibrating the model against actual condi-
tions experienced at the Airport should aid in predicting turbu-
lence and wind shear in different wind conditions. Some wind
tunnel work may also be carried out
· All of our findings will be carefully documented so that
all potential flights to St Helena (not just Comair flights) have
access to this information and can plan accordingly. Ultimately,
information on landing conditions will be included in the Aero-
drome Information Publication
This data collection, analysis and modelling - and subsequent
work to develop new operating procedures and share this in-
formation - will take some time. It is too early to tell how long
it will take to complete this work, but we are looking at the
timescales that might be involved and working flat out to com-
mence commercial flights at St Helena Airport at the earliest
possible opportunity.
Certification work is not yet quite complete, but will not be
affected by the decision to delay the Official Opening of the
Airport and the work which flows from this.
The public will be kept fully informed as this work progresses.
SHG
3 May 2016

Little One

6th May 2016, 15:35

Clearly the windshear issues that could have contributed to the FlyDubai Crash in Rostov on Don have caused a re-evaluation of operations.

It would probably be a very similar type of operation with same aircraft type, long sector to fly and then probably lightly loaded (low pax numbers) aircraft that is slippery to fly in a 2 engine missed approach.

I would be thinking that all operators of the B738 are eagerly awaiting more information on what caused the pitch over on that accident.

Ddraig Goch

7th May 2016, 08:06

Just found this picture of a test fly by from 10 years ago:

http://www.facebook.com/saintsdidnext/photos/a.299783983549370.1073741835.296488870545548/494767814050985/?type=3&theater

EK77WNCL

7th May 2016, 13:38

I'm quite convinced that some key mistakes were:

- Choosing Comair over Atantic Star
- Atlantic star ditching the 757 for 737

I don't think the 738 is really the best A/C out there for this, I really do think the 757 is what they need... Maybe the A319neo might offer something looking forward, outside of that it's a Hercules or C17 with seats in... A lot of aircraft can work and can do it, but it's about doing it with the right margins, and doing it reliably and regularly, not doing it every other flight day when the wind's alright and you haven't run out of fuel on go-arounds and end up backtracking 3 hours to Walvis Bay.

If the government's were to back Atlantic Star, help them source a nice 757 they can do up and look after themselves (there's plenty going, and who cares if it's 20+ years old, the kind of operation ASA's after - medium/long haul, couple of times a week, lots of downtime - it could have another 10-20 years in it providing it wasn't a high cycles frame) then I could see it being a very successful operation, 3 class 757 about 180-200 seats shouldn't have much problem, if they were a bit strict and limited it to 120-150 pax they might just be able to make the Falklands like they wanted to, maybe even with a meaningful amount of cargo onboard.

How is the 757 in winds and rough weather, I'd assume it's probably closer to the "tank" end of the scale rather than the "penny floater" 738

rog747

7th May 2016, 14:42

any s/h 757's in good nick knocking around?
one nice 1992 build ex AA 757 for sale 38k hrs 12k cycles with winglets

22C/166Y

Ex AA, Rolls Royce Engines 535E4: Cycles Remaining: 3,340 & 2,861, 2 Class LOPA, Flat Panel Display SYS, EGPWS, MMR, ILS, GPS, TCAS 7.0, Eicas Computer and Display, ACARS, Landing Gears good until 2020, Location: USA

RAT 5

7th May 2016, 16:39

Ask D.Trump if he will still need his after - hopefully- having his backside tanned heavily in November. Perhaps he'll try to buy St.Helena and trump Comair or Atlantic Star into the first scheduled flight to Trumpcot, the capital of the real 'never never' land.

01475

7th May 2016, 17:57

if they were a bit strict and limited it to 120-150 pax they might just be able to make the Falklands like they wanted to, maybe even with a meaningful amount of cargo onboard.

You'd so get hold of tourists like me if it was possible to do St Helena and the Falklands together. Who wouldn't want a holiday like that?

capricorn744

8th May 2016, 16:19

I went to St. Helena (by RMS St.Helena, touring to Tristan da Cunha too) few years ago when I knew about the airport plans...the emotion to reach this magic historic place would have been lost by going on a plane, that was my feeling.
By that time, the works to prepare for the airport were in progress and I visited the site.
As a (retired) captain, I had the feeling that the location was not the best one...due to the place orography, but then I still followed the project progress.
Having known the initial results of the familiarization flights, my first doubts had some confirmations...weather phenomena, like windshear and low clouds (on the particolare place), can't be avoided just changing planes, Airlines, flights frequency and other human made solutions.
On all the approach charts, the note about "to expect moderate to severe turbolence" it's just "a killer"...apart from the "commercial" point of view (making money on a kind of "regular service"...or being subsidized by government..more likely), which pilot would not fly there, considering the "missed approach" (and therefore "turn back home") the first option and "landing at destination" the second option?...

EK77WNCL

8th May 2016, 18:51

I'm not sure if that was a joke or not because I'd actually quite like to visit them both (Helena much more than the Falklands) but I would enjoy flying St Helena-Falklands just for the pure aviation hell of it... There must be some kind of link, ASA said it was a proposed destination

volare7266

9th May 2016, 12:52

“Comair, together with relevant stakeholders, are committed to operating a scheduled air service between St Helena and OR Tambo International Airport in Johannesburg,” Shaun Pozyn, a British Airways spokesperson, told The Sentinel.
On island, Airport Project Director Janet Lawrence says, “we are trying our utmost to commence operations as soon as we possibly can.”
But, she says, the problems with the wind could limit the type of aircraft that can land at the airport.
Comair’s fleet consists entirely of Boeing 737s, so it’s unclear if they could provide a different plane to fly the route. When asked if the government were talking to other providers, Ms Lawrence said “we are in discussion with various parties about what might turn out to be contingency measures,” but stressed the South African company’s commitment to the route.

On twitter Andreas Spaeth (@SpaethFlies) posted flights would be pushed back to August. Probably just rumors started at Indaba by speculating attendees

Not there yet at #StHelena @British_Airways #Comair, wind shear, runway issues push flights to August #INDABA2016

Ddraig Goch

9th May 2016, 19:16

Further to volare's report the same article says :

T he government has reassured people that
the RMS will continue if it’s needed as Co-
mair reconﬁrm their commitment to providing
an air link to St Helena.
After an uncertain week full of rumours the
government have ﬁnally conﬁrmed that the
RMS St Helena will continue in the event that
an air service fails to start on time. Keen to
stress that islanders would not be left stranded
on St Helena, or abroad unable to get home,
Councillor Lawson Henry said “if the situa-
tion arises that the life of the RMS has to be
extended, that’s the decision we will take,
we will not be left without access.”
But the decision will not be taken immediate-
ly. “There’s no reason why at this point in time
that we should be extending the RMS beyond
mid-July” Assistant Financial Secretary Dax
Richards said.As to the use of a B 757 what would the restrictions on payload be incoming and outgoing due to runway length and the distance from Jo'berg or other airports?

volare7266

10th May 2016, 18:53

News just in:
We have just learned that Air Safety Support International (ASSI) has granted St Helena Airport certification. This comes while work is still underway to gather and analyse data and put in place mitigation measures to deal with turbulence and wind shear.
More details to follow soon.

So what does that exactly mean now ? Airport is safe, navaid, radars etc working properly BUT ... ???

And here are the details:

http://www.sainthelena.gov.sh/st-helena-airport-certified/

enicalyth

11th May 2016, 19:56

Volare!

We have shared the net but now I must fold my tent and depart, the lunatics are in charge of the asylum [I do not mean pprune]. Or it is a script worth of Sir Humphrey.

Ahh, the ground installations are fine, the air installations are not. The ILS quietly forgotten about, the DVOR likewise, not a cheep about GBAS so we have RNV only procedures drawn up by ASAP and promulgated by ATNS. All bases covered nicely...

After you Claude, NO after you Cecil. The captains and the Kings depart and any mess left over can be cleared up by someone else. Parallel activity?? If this is how the new Governor intends to lead then heed the sayings of the Saints.... bad go, worse come. This is how things are done on St Helena and it will never change.

Shame on you ASSI, SHG, DFID. You make us a laughing stock and I thought that the days of spin doctoring were over. Yet some like badly tailored pants will be taken in.

I have decided to go sailing. Six months ought to do it.

Broken Biscuits

11th May 2016, 21:53

Well, the thick end of a quarter of a billion spent and what have we got for it? A lavish airport terminal, fancy control tower and 14km of new road but only virtual aircraft arriving and departing at the moment.

I feel sorry for Basil Read - they have, it seems to me, performed a minor miracle of civil engineering, 8 million cu m of rock blasted and shifted into Dry Gut and the buildings and infrastructure built - all done with a supply chain extending over a couple of thousand miles and with several weeks lead time. A logistical masterpiece. All this perhaps spoilt by now being associated with what could become a white elephant.

It seems there has been some bad decisions made of a fundamental nature regarding the exact location of the runway. Perhaps the solution would be to spend another £100m and fill in the rest of Dry Gut to make the runway longer. You could chop off the tops of the King and Queen rocks which would probably make the turbulence/windshear less. (I'm joking, of course!)

There is now talk about keeping the RMS St Helena running. Well, the airport could be used with smaller aircraft (possible using runway 02 and accepting the tailwind penalty), so perhaps a weekly service would just about replicate the passenger capability of the RMS. This would allow the all important access for Saints to get to and from the island. The place is not really ready for an increase in tourists anyway, so instead of the £5m per annum subsidy going to the RMS, why not, in the short term, run some charter flights as an RMS substitute?

Of course, the heavy cargo element of the RMS needs to be covered - hopefully the new wharf at Ruperts and associated infrastructure will soon be available to allow new shipping arrangements to commence.

rjtjrt

12th May 2016, 01:39

Broken Buscuits wrote: ....There is now talk about keeping the RMS St Helena running.....
I would be very pleased to see RMS St Helena continue.
I have always wanted to do a tri on her but so far not been able to.
The small passenger ship is an entrancing prospect (rather than the enormous cruise liner getto).
I wonder if the RMS St Helena could make a profit of subsidise its costs by running other routes such as Sub Antarctic journey to South Georgia/Falklands, or to Tristan de Cunha, etc with passengers?
It is the antithesis of a cruise liner, and desirable as such. The last Royal Mail ship and being a small ship even more desirable (maybe there is still a RMS Queen something on trasatlantic as well).
A small, working ship that carries passengers and sails on sometimes rough seas is very enticing to me, and perhaps others.
Long may RMS St Helena last.

Heathrow Harry

13th May 2016, 11:59

well there's a way to go before they catch up with Berlin's new airport!!!

Ddraig Goch

14th May 2016, 08:13

Some more news from Friday's excellent St Helena Indepenent:

ACCESS TO ST HELENA
UPDATE ON ACTIONS
Work is now underway to gather and analyse data and put in
place mitigation measures to deal with turbulence and wind
shear at St Helena Airport - to ensure the safe operation of
regular passenger flights. The safety of aircraft and passen-
gers is, of course, paramount.
As part of this work, shipping access to St Helena and As-
cension Island is also being examined.
Current Actions
· Work is underway to ensure guaranteed access
to St Helena and Ascension Island. There are no
current plans to extend RMS operations - but this is
being kept under review. We will ensure passenger
and freight access to St Helena & Ascension
· The Governor is chairing high level meetings
twice a week to work on access to the islands.
There is also a meeting with Elected Members
each Friday
· The public is being kept regularly informed
through a weekly slot on both radio stations each
Monday afternoon, where questions are invited
· Data is being gathered to allow clear transport
options - including shipping and aircraft options -
to be determined in the week commencing
Monday 23 May 2016. We are looking at long-term
solutions, but will employ interim options if
necessary
· We are also examining ways to ensure medivac flights
are enabled
· Specific steps are being taken to address turbulence
and wind shear at the Airport, involving analysis of all
available and new data, including weather data, plus
formal reports from pilots of all aircraft that have landed
at St Helena Airport. Reports on the strength of wind
conditions will be maintained and regularly updated and
consideration will be given to installing specialised wind
measuring equipment
· Computer modelling is also being developed to test
different scenarios, and some wind tunnel work may
also be carried out
This data collection, analysis and modelling - and subsequent
work to develop new operating procedures and, crucially, to
share this information - will take some time but all parties are
working flat out to commence commercial flights at St Helena
Airport at the earliest possible opportunity.
All of our findings will be carefully documented so that all
potential flights to St Helena (not just Comair flights) have
access to this information and can plan accordingly. Ulti-
mately, information on landing conditions will be included in
the Aerodrome Information Publication required under inter-
national regulatory standards.
The public can be assured that every effort is being made to
commence commercial flights at St Helena Airport at the ear-
liest possible opportunity - and will be kept fully informed as
this work progresses.
SHG
9 May 2016

Comair news
While St Helena wrestles with the wind conditions on the
approach to the airport so Comair passengers can have a
smooth landing, Comair itself is being given a bumpy ride
by one of its business rivals FlySAfair. FlySAfair is a budget
airline in competition with Comair’s own Kulula budget brand.
This report from the South Africa Independent Newspapers
website reports Comair officials in a race to keep their planes
in the air following the latest complaint by Comair’s budget
airline rival.
Comair launches urgent
application
Johannesburg - Comair on Tuesday said it had launched
an urgent application to interdict the Air Services Licensing
Council (ASLC) from suspending its domestic license. This
is pending the outcome of a review by a court of law over
FlySAfair’s three-year long complaint against airline’s for-
eign shareholding. FlySAfair had lodged a complaint with
the ASLC against Comair’s domestic air service license during
the 2013/14 reporting period.
The complaint consisted of the allegation that the Comair
had breached its air license by failing to apply for a license
amendment after undertaking a share repurchase pro-
gramme. A second complaint was that when a “look through”
construction was applied to the Comair’s current foreign
shareholding component, the amount of its shareholding
slightly exceeded the restrictions specified in the Air Serv-
ices Licensing Act. Licensing requirements limit the foreign
shareholding and voting right in domestic airlines to 25 per-
cent.
Bidvest’s BB Investment Company is listed as Comair’s larg-
est shareholder with a 26.91 percent stake, followed by Allan
Gray with 12.9 percent and Britair with 11.5 percent.
In March, Comair was given until 11 May to comply with the
conditions of its Air Services License, without which no air-
line is permitted to operate a commercial air service. But
Comair said it was confident that it was compliant with the
foreign shareholding requirements of the Act based on the
advice of its external legal advisors. Comair, in a statement,
said its view and that of its external legal advisors was that
the ASLC had not commenced suspension proceedings in
accordance with the Act. “The company has requested the
ASLC to agree that it has not commenced suspension pro-
ceedings in accordance with the Act, and has requested the
ASLC to agree not to take any further action against the
company pending the outcome of a review of the ASLC’s
decisions,” Comair said.
“The ASLC has failed to agree to the company’s request.
The company has taken the precaution of launching an ur-
gent application to interdict the ASLC from suspending the
Company’s domestic license, pending the outcome of a re-
view by a court of law.”
The squabbles between the two airlines date back when the
low cost airline FlySAfair took to the skies to compete with
Comair’s low-cost brand kulula.com. A similar complaint put
to the ASLC by Comair in 2013 to stop FlySAfair from oper-
ating was unsuccessful. Comair on Tuesday stressed that
the disagreement with the ASLC did not relate to the safety
of its operations, but exclusively to a shareholder regulatory
issue. Vince Thompson

volare7266

14th May 2016, 09:40

Comair Ltd. has been in business for 70 years and is listed at the JSE (Johannesburg Stock Exchange). I trust it will not be too difficult to find out.

As a consumer I would be rather worried about airlines that do business from websites that show a proxy or privacy company as owner.

very old flyer

16th May 2016, 10:28

Yes, Comair has been in business for almost 70 years and, most unusually for an airline, run at a profit for every one of those years!

volare7266

26th May 2016, 23:39

MAINTAINING ACCESS TO ST HELENA

UPDATE - 26 MAY 2016

· Intensive work is ongoing to put in place an optimum transport package to guarantee passenger and freight access to St Helena - both in terms of a scheduled air service and shipping - but we are not quite there yet
· Aircraft options have been refined and shortlisted and we are now looking at availability and timings for aircraft
· DFID is in discussion with SHG about continuing the services of the RMS St Helena so that there is continued access to and from the Island for the people of St Helena
· We absolutely appreciate that people need to plan. We re-emphasise that access to St Helena will be assured
· Naturally, this work is being undertaken in close partnership with DFID
· In the meantime, we can confirm that emergency medevac flights could now land in the event of a life threatening emergency on St Helena. Other small charters can also land and we have had some interest in doing that. All aircraft need to comply with the Category C Airport conditions
· These steps are bringing us closer to scheduled operations

SHG

Would be interesting to know if Comair is still interested ...

volare7266

31st May 2016, 17:38

From St. Helena Government Executive Council Meeting 31 May 2016

In the Closed Session Members were advised of the current progress on exploring options to ensure continued access to St Helena. There had been some significant progress in identifying suitable aircraft and air service operators, although there is no immediate solution available. This work will take some time, and in the meantime the continued use of the RMS is being explored. It is hoped that an announcement on the favoured access option for the immediate future will be made soon, although this is very much dependent on the outcome of a range of discussions currently under way. Naturally, we maintain close contact with colleagues in DFID and with aviation experts who have been contracted to undertake some of this the work.

ExCo

Looks very much like Comair and Boeing 737-800 are no option any longer ?

Broken Biscuits

31st May 2016, 19:53

I came across an interesting note on the Met Office website here:

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/s/j/15_0246_st_helena_airport_assessing_climatology_and_wind_she ar.pdf

They did a study entitled "Assessing climatology and wind shear risk for a new airport" some time ago.

To quote part of it:

"Assessment of the wind shear risk was found to be relatively low. However we were able incorporate other findings arising from our analysis to highlight other risks that were not previously anticipated. This included crosswind risks and the potential of wind shear close to the surface, due to possible effects on localised air flow from the wind coming up off the steep coastline.
Analysis provided bespoke information for St Helena Airport, including a range of crosswind thresholds associated with specific aircraft types that are planned to be operational at this airport, in both dry and wet conditions.
Recommendations were made for the need for more observational equipment in close proximity to the runway to fully understand the more localised wind risks near the surface. The first would be to install an additional anemometer or windsock at the centre point of the runway as well as a windsock within sight of the Air Traffic Control tower to help identify if turbulent flow is evident."

So they foresaw the likely wind shear "close to the surface" which was so clearly evident when the Comair flight landed. I'm not sure if the extra windsock and anemometer have been installed though.

And further reading on GBAS has come up with particular worries for stations in the equatorial region. Rapid ionospheric changes near the equator can cause large changes in GPS propagation second by second under some circumstances, at such a rate that the augmentation (correction) signals cannot keep pace with. This would reduce the improvement in GPS accuracy that the GBAS system is supposed to provide.
It may be that ASSI will want an extended period of testing of the system on St Helena so that they can see how often this degradation of accuracy is likely to occur. In any case, it seems that extending the system to Cat II/III status looks very difficult in the equatorial region so there will be little advantage over the LOC/DME approach that's already available, which, like GBAS, offers Cat I minimums.

I think that SHG will have to come up with an air service provider soon - otherwise I can see the Public Accounts Committee taking a look at what that quarter of a billion has been spent on.

mathy

31st May 2016, 22:37

BB, Sorry you will have to do better than that. That Met Report is a puff. If you correspond with "Dan" from the Met Office you will find that the report you mention is not available unless through SHG. It is effectively not for promulgation and is under embargo.

Not that it said anything of substance that we did not know already. But the clip you quote is ten seconds of spin. If you enquire among fellow Saints you will, if you are discreet, and you have to be discreet because SHG do use injunctions, there is a lot to be humble about. [Try mentioning "Snapdragon" for example].

Bit of a giveaway I know but if you are an islander it is an open secret. If you are not an islander then then the ranks close not least because most on-island workers rely on the Castle for their daily bread. You cannot annoy the Castle and of necessity Saints cave in under pressure or they face ruin.

Try researching what happened to "LF", a man of your ability can unravel that though you may have to move 702 nautical miles and read case law. What happened there in LF v. the Chief Justice does not convey the nuances, it gets "redacted". And spin enters the game. St Helena once you get to know it is all about spin, the players move on but the islanders remain. [I use the term “islander” because not all islanders are Saints].

And there again as "Mick" found out in his other case the law can be re-written in Overseas Territories. "Mick" and what happened to him can be read up about in the Wass Inquiry. Sometimes you have to read in “parallel” if you are to understand what happening in “series”.

So I am suggesting to you that you have riper avenues to explore and I dare say you have the technological expertise to understand RF propagation and meteorology and other things.

Me? I have moved on. I have to work and if I have to come to a compromise agreement with my erstwhile employer I cannot spell it out as I am sure you appreciate. It is "gagging" I suppose. But I have better things to do.

Best wishes

rog747

1st Jun 2016, 06:44

if comair and their new 737-800 ops are now maybe a no-no what will TUIfly Holland now decide to do i wonder ??

they are due to start LTN-BJL-HLE flights for Atlantic star AL with same a/c type 738

volare7266

1st Jun 2016, 08:32

I am not sure what mathy is trying to tell BB or us. BB is only citing from a publicly available press release from the Met Office. Interesting.

TUI Fly (Netherlands) as part of the TUI conglomerate will certainlöy be more cautious too now. Atlantic Star is always good for a surprise, maybe they come with a 757 again. But Atlantic Star's problem is also the imbalance caused by the weak market on the island.

In any case it will become more expensive now for SHG and DfID. And keeping up the morale of HLE airport staff a full time job. Beautiful terminal and nothing to do.

fireflybob

1st Jun 2016, 08:38

Is this is runway/airport really that different from many airports in the world from a "risk management" point of view?

Places like Gibraltar and Funchal have already been quoted where flights are conducted on a regular basis.

volare7266

1st Jun 2016, 08:49

rog747

1st Jun 2016, 09:12

the ALT field is back to a comair home base? if fuel permits - CPT 1692nm or JNB (300 nm further)
or Walvis Bay at 1220nm or WDH at 1352 nm
or up to Ascension 700nm with no/little pax facs.

the TUi flight from LTN what are the ALT's ? back to Ascension or to Namibia? surely not enough to go back to BJL?

how does the TUi Holland/ASA maths add up with costs of empty posn'g flights to/from Holland to LTN or will they sell those legs to punters?
given the tourism interest by German and Dutch tourists to St Helena and the RSA would it not make sense to sell the flight through from Holland via LTN? ASA's original plans were to serve a route network that will operate from London, down to the island and on to Cape Town with a Boeing 757-200 aircraft....
why did they use TUI Holland anyway?

assume TUI crew change at BJL and that crew will shuttle BJL-HLE-BJL with no night-stop on the island? (about the same crewing time as a LTN-TFS and back, a long enough day)

Thomson TUI UK still have good 757's (not sure if ETOPS equipped or is ETOPS even needed for HLE?
they op now to BJL as well as Sal and Boa Vista non-stop with 757's, crew change there and on to HLE? or stick with a BJL changeover...
757 is the right a/c but Cape Verde stop off means a crew shuttle to HLE and back similar to doing a LTN-SSH-LTN, a rather long day)

the 757 surely makes much more sense again to seek one?

see here
go to 12m 42s the clip shows the comair 737-800 do a first low pass/fly-by then an unexpected GA then the first landing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vndwvM6ieTw

fireflybob

1st Jun 2016, 09:32

Gibraltar and Madeira have better options for a deviation. Airlines flying to St. Helena are in a more difficult situation. Either risk a landing and hope for the best or safely deviate to Ascension Island not knowing what to do next with passengers and the aircraft. I can imagine Comair is not very keen to operate that route

Agreed but then again it's down to probabilities. All flights carry a commercial risk of diversion - you just need to consider that risk in the planning.

In the 1970s I recall operating to Bermuda in the B707 for which we only carried island reserve of 2.5 hours (no diversion) and Bermuda was renowned for crosswinds as the runway was 90 degrees to the prevailing winds. On occasions one might hold or go around and then hold for another attempt but we always managed to arrive there safely. And the B707 was far more challenging in cross winds and wind shear than any of the modern types of today.

mathy

1st Jun 2016, 11:09

A little background is necessary especially where runway length and weights are involved. When the Shelco/Arup consortium developed the idea of high value low volume tourism with SHG as its development partner there were bound to be raised eyebrows. Who they?

Actually the idea had its merits, it was well-researched though costings were skimped and they had the civil engineering side of Boeing on board. [Yes they do other things besides build aircraft].

What Shelco badly misunderstood was how SHG would handle what could be taken as an intimation that the Castle was not up to its job or had fallen asleep at the wheel. The reaction of SHG was predictable to Castle watchers.

What Shelco proposed was twin runways, arranged in a Vee with 2200 metres facing into the prevailing wind and a cross runway of 1810 metres. The opposite direction of the longer runway was impossible because of terrain and cloud cover but on St Helena because of its geographical location and Southern latitude the wind only blows one way. [On Ascension it is even more one sided].

The point is that on 99% of occasions the long runway is available for take-off and the shorter landing runway is available 95% of the time for North-South operations. If the cross-wind so dictates then 5% of the time it will be South-North. From the runway length there flows how much depth of construction is necessary for the expected traffic. Over to Prof Overrun.

Picture in your mind 2200 metres for take-off and 1810 metres for landing. The significance of 1810 metres is that a 58676kg landing weight [eg A319-100] needs that much. The crucial factor was Runway End Safety Area or RESA. Ideally according ICAO this should be 240 metres at each end but the power to relax this recommendation lies in the hands of the Governor and is mediated through ASSI. Shelco repeatedly sought assurances that there was no objection to 160 metres of RESA at either end.

Now here come the twist. The Shelco proposal is predicated on not having to fill Dry Gut. If you insist on 240 metre RESAs then the project becomes unaffordable as far as Shelco is concerned and any partnership is off.

Here I can only conjecture; SHG wanted no part of a risk-sharing enterprise because a) it made them look foolish having a commercial upstart upsetting their colonial ways and b) with SHG it is my way or the highway.
So what happened?

The worst of all worlds – ASSI changed their minds or had their minds change for them, in came 240 metre RESAs and entailing colossal earthworks so huge that the cost scuppered all thoughts of the twin Vee runways. Shelco wanted no further part of the airport.

I wonder how SHG will spin this if the next round of consultants propose this for an idea. Remove 80 metres of gravel and substitute 80 metres of extra concrete, always handy for those wind-shear and float moments. After all Basil Read have already paid for the first 240 metres to be concrete out of their own pockets making it a displaced threshold, solid all the way. Yes SHG would look foolish and Basil Read would undoubtedly put in a claim. And then Shelco might be justified in saying so SHG put in all that unnecessary fill for Dry Gut and if you had followed our suggested alignment not only would you have two runways but they would have been longer with less environmental impact and much less cost to the public purse.

The airport was built so that Saints could come and go, people would not die for want of a passing ship. Relatives could visit the aged and infirm without having to tender one’s resignation. And high value low volume tourism could open the door for enterprise of all sorts.

Thank you for your concerns.

Ddraig Goch

1st Jun 2016, 12:20

Super stuff Mathy, Rog747 and BB. Scratch the surface and watch the fun begin. The plot thickens:O some of it you couldn't make up.

Broken Biscuits

1st Jun 2016, 12:46

I must admit I was staggered when the scale of the earthworks proposed to build the runway was revealed (when was that - about 10 years ago now?). I thought the Shelco proposal was novel and probably workable. I was taught on the first day of my engineering course "an engineer does for 19s 6d what anyone can do for 21s" (you can tell it was quite a number of years ago!). Shelco applied that principle whereas what has been built uses the "money no object" principle typical of many public projects.

By the way, I understood that the Americans have vetoed the idea of the Ascension runway being designated as a weather alternative, only allowing the once a month scheduled flight to provide transport home for Saints working on Ascension and the Falklands. (Ascension would be usable in an emergency, of course.) So the nearest diversion you'd probably want to use is Walvis Bay or maybe Windhoek. All complicates the fuel/cargo/pax load calculations versus commercial viability and possible subsidy required.

blackbeard1

2nd Jun 2016, 10:24

Not sure if this has been covered but I remember it from some years ago.
"HMG REQUESTS FORMAL CONSULTATIONS REGARDING WIDEAWAKE AIRFIELD ON ASCENSION ISLAND"
HMG REQUESTS FORMAL CONSULTATIONS REGARDING WIDEAWAKE AIRFIELD ON ASCENSION ISLAND - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikileaks-files/london-wikileaks/8305027/HMG-REQUESTS-FORMAL-CONSULTATIONS-REGARDING-WIDEAWAKE-AIRFIELD-ON-ASCENSION-ISLAND.html)

volare7266

2nd Jun 2016, 11:10

Interesting reading from a different perspective:
Lord Ashcroft: Special investigation: A dangerous problem with St Helena?s new airport leaves the islanders in despair | Conservative Home (http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/06/lord-ashcroft-special-investigation-a-dangerous-problem-with-st-helenas-new-airport-leaves-the-islanders-in-despair.html?utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter)

WHBM

2nd Jun 2016, 11:18

I was taught on the first day of my engineering course "an engineer does for 19s 6d what anyone can do for 21s" (you can tell it was quite a number of years ago!). Shelco applied that principle whereas what has been built uses the "money no object" principle typical of many public projects.
You are quite right about the engineers, but this disregards the commercial side of designers and contractors, who are meanwhile looking for the maximum, not minimum, revenue they can charge the client. Of course, they then harass the engineer to achieve minimum construction cost for it.

Broadly speaking, contractors look to make 5-10% margin on contracts, so if they can get something designed that's twice the effort of a feasible solution, that's twice the margin. So contrary to the opinions of some, contractors are always looking for the maximum they can charge for a project, not the competitive minimum.

By the way, I understood that the Americans have vetoed the idea of the Ascension runway
Can someone point out to "the Americans" that Ascension Island, like St Helena, is a British Overseas territory.

mathy

2nd Jun 2016, 13:18

WHBM quite so. But in accordance with the downwind range treaty signed between the UK and the US the rights to use Wideawake are partitioned thus:- rights to the runway built by the US, strengthened by the US for use by NASA and administered by USAF Patrick AFB; all other rights for the RAF i.e. basically the pan and fuel pipeline, that is all; all else in the civil register, well in emergency under the Alan Mulally agreement [eg flight DAL201] nothing to be unreasonably withheld. I am afraid that the USAF has the last say when it come to flights. If you want clarity please ring ++247 3315 Ascension Ops and they will be happy to explain. Wideawake has always been a US aerodrome and the RAF is welcome as a lodger unit and shares certain duties but the runway is owned by Uncle Sam. I always used to welcome RAF personnel with a reminder of why seat places on trooping flights are limited to 185 pax - that is the capacity of the "Chapel of Rest" which is that wriggly tin hut down by Long Beach, nothing to do with St Mary's Church. It is the freezer. And on that cheerful note and always happy to serve with very happy memories of my time at ASI 1999-2002, especially under Maj Jeff Lowdermilk.

mathy

2nd Jun 2016, 22:10

Dear WHBM and others. It is not just my keyboard that is sticking. Let's try another PC.

Firstly the status of Wideawake. The UKG and USG entered into an agreement, [sometimes called a "lease" but that is an errant description], in June 1956. It is called the Bahamas Agreement and runs so long as the original is valid and for successive five year periods. Now and then an interim change is proposed to allow this or that or have something discontinued. The agreement legislates for the "Eastern Range" or "Downwind Range" off cape Canaveral but clauses have grown to include a major part of the GPS monitoring system. There is no lease, or rent although both parties reimburse the other for goods and services. Basically the USG is exempt for all charges. They did build the airfield in WW2. They did return in 1956 [the year of Suez]. They did propose the agreement and the UKG did sign it.

In one sense certain responsibilities are shared but the late Robin Cook upset a lot of apple carts so much so that some say the USG was on the point of serving notice. Unthinkable?

Wideawake divides responsibilities thus: the airfield, the tower etc is administered and more importantly belongs to the USG. Every movement be it departure or landing must be reimbursed; every landing weight is reported. Likewise every weight-and-balance sheet so that wear and tear can be assessed. The UKG carries the burden of looking after the "pan" which includes I think the fuel pipeline. [JP8 by the way].

Informally the US may accept up to four civil but non-revenue movements per month. Non-revenue means exactly that for the USG accepts no liability. The day that the USG senses that this is a commercial airport and can be treated like a hotel is the day the shutters come down. It is an airbase.

Now what happens in emergencies? Well under the so-called Alan Mulally Agreement the USG will not unreasonably withhold succour in grave or life threatening danger. If a runway is under repair or war-like preparations are underway or the Commander-in-Chief [Mr President] says so then permission to use ASI can be withheld.

You may not file Ascension as an alternate. If you do not have PPR you will be staying at what the French call "hotel gratuite" and the Brits call HMP.

Now for a bit of black humour. Ever wonder why the TriStar or A330 were limited to 185 places? Take stroll down to Long Beach and the Chapel of Rest. [Not St Mary's Church]. Its a giant freezer. Seats 185. More or less.

EK77WNCL

3rd Jun 2016, 00:49

185???

Ascension Island - earth-photos (http://www.earthphotos.com/Countries/Ascension-Island/i-LvzWtNw/A)

mathy

3rd Jun 2016, 07:39

Black humour. In the event of a major disaster you pick up the bits, bag em up and consign then to the freezer. There are no pews in the Chapel of Rest or soft organ music nor hearses waiting. If you want St Mary's then go across the road. I just did not want to spell out quite so graphically why a whacking great bird carries so few on the milk runs. On military ops different rules apply but on normal trooping and roulement the pax load is as I said about 185 of whom 25 are typically contractor ex-pats or Saints. The ex-pats have 27kg of baggage, the Saints have 54kg. Though not exactly current I have seen the disaster plan and the worst case scenario. I have flown the route many, many times both in light blue and dark blue. My pen name is the clue, approaching MATHY. Some nice fotogs. Are you a Geordie by any chance? Ex-216??

Broken Biscuits

3rd Jun 2016, 09:58

That article by Lord Ashcroft mentioned above with the quotes from the various pilots that have landed on St Helena is an eye-opener.

Most telling to me is that his own pilots advised against taking his Falcon 7X to the island. Now I'd have thought that is the sort of aircraft that could have landed on Runway 02, accepting the tailwind penalty, and, in any case could carry plenty of fuel for a diversion back to the mainland if necessary.

I'm assuming here that the turbulence etc on approach to 02 is relatively less than for Runway 20 where the King and Queen rocks blanket the approach from the SE winds. The Comair Director of Ops quoted a "relatively benign" approach from the south I seem to remember in the interview with him.

WHBM

3rd Jun 2016, 11:50

I get the impression that Comair have now decided that it's unsuitable for them to continue. I wonder what their insurers had/have to say about it.

I wonder what Air New Zealand crews with experience of Wellington would make of it.

mathy

4th Jun 2016, 09:29

The Governor announces that WHBM has said a Wellington can land on St Helena.

Seriously Porto Santo and Madeira are bad enough! I would counsel SHG to exchange a bit of kitty litter for more concrete.

All the computer models in the world can only do so much for the real model is twelve inches to the foot and is called St Helena. Anyone who has set foot on Prosperous Plain knows exactly what the problems are. Short runway, rapidly changing wind speed and direction.

So before you build, if build you must, drive in two pegs, have solid
concrete all the way between them, mark the touchdown zones and anything left over is RESA. Don't bleat "but it must be 240 metres". Needs must when the devil drives. Under extenuating circumstances it can be less and in many remote areas it is less, Norfolk Island for example where I have stood with the station manager watching
four windsocks streaming in four different directions.

Their problem is exactly the same, to get people in and out, to foster tourism and have as much runway as the geography can provide. The answer is not to maximise the RESA by minimising the runway. That is like Paddy who landed athwart in smoke and dust and marvelled at the width but complained about the length.

Only an idiot puts his left foot in the right shoe. It is left foot in the CORRECT shoe. In other words Rules and How to Interpret Them.

You wonder who made the decision in the first place... about the shoes I mean. Any fool can build an airport in the wrong place. Someone just did.