proof of being a passenger on delayed flight

[DOBEYPETE]

Hello one and all,
I wish to claim flight delay compensation from Thompson Airlines for flights in 2010 for 2 people.
I have the holiday booking reference number, flight dates, flight numbers etc but DO NOT HAVE THE BOARDING PASSES as proof of taking the flights.
My question to you being.
If I write to Thompson Airlines requesting proof of our being on the flights, can they refuse/ignore my request ?
Does the CAA (or similar) request that they keep the passenger manifest for a set length of time.
Can I get this information from another source ?
thanks in anticipation

[bravoromeosierra]

Why was the flight delayed?

[DaveReidUK]

I can't think of any reason why an airline would keep 5-year-old passenger manifests. Sounds like you're out of luck.

[Cloud1]

Manifests are usually kept for 2 years as a rule of thumb although some may keep them longer.

As someone that has worked within commercial aviation for some years the EU261 stuff really bugs me. Why compensation is not a percentage of a ticket rather than a flat rate is beyond me.

However given your flight was 5 years ago and no doubt you have moved on with your life do you really have to claim? It is no wonder airlines struggle to make money now a days.....

[dcp2608]

Totally agree - EU261 bugs me too

[j636]

Don't bother applying, 99% chance TOM will get away with extraordinary circumstances.

[DOBEYPETE]

Thankyou for your replies,
The reason I wish to start a claim so late is purely on the grounds that because of recent court judgements I was approached by a specialist claim company. I recollect experiencing delays on both legs of the holiday, 6 hours on the outward trip, 15 hours on the return trip. We were given, at the time, a printed flysheet about the delays to claim off our holiday insurance.
I primarily take out travel insurance for medical & repatriation cover, not to provide Thompson Airways with a get out position.Thompson Airways was not very helpful at all in the situation.
Maybe the recent court judgements will put up the ticket price, so be it, airlines must take their responsibilities seriously.

[Bushfiva]

I think your ambulance-chasing friends would be the best source of information. They're unlikely to move forward if they don't see a reasonable chance of winning.

[TSR2]

And by the way its Thomson not Thompson.

No wonder they are not co-operative if you cannot get their name right.

[sdh2903]

Does the average Joe really not understand the implications of these claims? Do they not understand that the only long term effect is that all flights and holidays will end up being more expensive?

I have worked for several UK airlines scheduled and charter and none have done other than everything possible to avoid delays. from subbing in aircraft and chartering light aircraft to ferry spares. Yes some airlines handle their public PR better than others granted.

Eu261 is madness. Do you claim when your bus turns up late? If an accident closes a motorway do we all claim of the driver who caused it? If your life is still ruined by a 15 hour delay 5 years ago then theres something wrong. By the way did Thomson not accommodate you and provide refreshment vouchers during your delays? Hmm thought so.

[alserire]

Why should they pay you if you cannot prove you were on board? Sure I could say I was on board at that rate.


And I would have thought that an airline's responsibility if primarily to get you from A to B safely. And for those of us who fly a bit higher ticket prices because people are occasionally inconvenienced is a much larger issue than the odd delay.


Have you nothing else you could be doing with your life?

[AGPwallah]

A couple of years ago Ryanair used to break down the price of a ticket and if I remember correctly the portion attributable to EU261 compensation was €2.50/£2.50 per passenger. Now based on their estimated passenger figure of 90m for 2015 that gives them a figure of between €225,000,000 and £225,000,000 additional revenue and most of it pure profit. How much have they paid out in EU261 claims? No wonder everyone envies their business model.

[macdo]

The ambulance chasers don't give a his #### about the ramifications of this crazy law, they are pretty much at the end of the PPI feeding frenzy and this is the next trough to feed from. Frankly I'm amazed at the polite replies that you have received on this forum. The bottom line is that everyone who travels will eventually pay for this in increased fares.

[Cloud1]

When I replied to this topic I had to edit my response a few times as I was a bit harsh and thought there would be backlash. How relieved i am to see most people saying the same thing I was going to say.

Have to tell you DOBEYPETE, I think the reasons for your claim are weak and pathetic. Whatever the trauma was that you encountered 5 years ago you landed back in the UK alive and I do not believe the delay has been pressing on your mind all this time. The morons behind the claim companies do not know the rules and requirements behind EU261 they, like the culture the UK is adopting more and more, just see pound signs.

The cost of EU261 to airlines is rediculous. The trains I use weekly are appalling - rarely on time and often cancelled as they do not have enough drivers. I get nothing but live with it. Airlines have problems because they are running complex operational businesses and passengers often fail to recognise this - as do the big wigs behind EU261.

[2Planks]

Didn't a Ryanair manifest help prove the case against Chris Huhne some 8 years after the event?

[El Bunto]

The statutory period for claiming under EU261, in England and Wales, is six years from the date of flight. This was established by the Court of Appeal in a case involving Thomson last year, in which precedent was maintained and EU261 claims were determined to fall under national law, not the Montreal Convention.

Small Claims in England and Wales:


If your claim is based on Contract then you must bring your action against your opponent within 6 years of the date of the breach of contract. However for certain types of contract the period can be extended to 12 years (e.g. where the contract is in the form of a Deed).You'd best hurry up.

Unlike airlines, which can take their sweet time about conveying you on your journey. After all your time is less important than their bottom-line...


The trains I use weekly are appalling - rarely on time and often cancelled as they do not have enough drivers. I get nothing but live with it.If your train journey was international then COTIF compensation applies.

If your train is delayed by more than one hour, you're entitled to meals and refreshments appropriate to the delay.
If the delay extends overnight, you're entitled to hotel accommodation and transport to and from the hotel if this is possible.
If the train has broken down on the track, where possible, you should be given transport from the train to a station or your end destination.
After 60 minutes you become entitled to compensation.




I believe there is also a maritime equivalent. Those meddling Eurocrats, eh? Can't they just stick to picking on airlines?

[racedo]

So OP wants to enrich some bottom feeding lawyers and decries he hasn't got the proof.

[chuzwuza]

I think that the OP has a right nerve asking for help in this matter on a forum essentially created for people in the industry. Why should we help people who are hell bent on destroying our livelihoods and adding to the cost of every airline ticket in the future. I'm not arguing that you can claim, simply that you should direct your questions to the blood sucking vultures who suggested you should claim. Personally, I hope you and the rest of your sort have a long and irritating battle to ultimately end up with nothing. Good night.

[Una Due Tfc]

If it's 2010, it could well be due to Eyafjallawhatchamacallit (those sigmets were fun to read out....). The idea that the airlines should have to compensate people for acts of god is ridiculous. Plane went tech? That's fair enough. Rostering messed up so crew are out of hours, also fair. But situations like the inbound diverting due to a sick passenger on board, then waiting ages for fuel or de icing or whatever at the diversion should not be covered.

[Cloud1]

El Bunto - no not international. The compensation rules are very different for "domestic" trains and are not as strictly supported by other agencies (the CAA being quite tight on EU261) When compared to internal flights these do not differ in the sense that you get the same whether it's domestic or international with just the amount of compensation varying by km flown.

My own personal morals would not force me to claim compensation some 5 or 6 years after a flight. Simple as that.

[Hotel Tango]

So as i understand it most of you think that a delay of fifteen hours is quite acceptable. As for the joker comparing that to the local bus running late, it defies belief. Have any of you actually experienced a 15 hr delay l, possibly with kids, at some grotty tourist airport? EU261 keeps airlines on their toes. Long may it last. I'm quite happy to fork out a premium of 3 quid or so on top of the fare to cover for it.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

What twaddle!

EU261 won't prevent delays, they are just a matter of fact when travelling. They are frustrating & annoying, but they always did and will continue to happen.

Claiming compensation often to a greater value than what you had paid for the service is utterly ridiculous unless the airline doesn't have to look after you during that delay.

If passengers are looked after, ie fed, watered and accommodated if necessary then there should be no compensation due at all, it was always an insurance claim up till recently. If the airline doesn't provide any service then passengers should be able to claim compensation for their out of pocket expenses.

People seem to want their cake and to be able to eat it too! I hope that this claim takes hours and hours of time to put together, and that the blood sucking claim company spend many many man hours for the claim to be rejected!

[edi_local]

So as i understand it most of you think that a delay of fifteen hours is quite acceptable. As for the joker comparing that to the local bus running late, it defies belief. Have any of you actually experienced a 15 hr delay l, possibly with kids, at some grotty tourist airport? EU261 keeps airlines on their toes. Long may it last. I'm quite happy to fork out a premium of 3 quid or so on top of the fare to cover for it.

I don't think anyone on here would be against something if it actually prevented delays for passengers and improved overall performance. EU261 doesn't. It has turned people in to greedy blood suckers and the airlines have had to reduce service levels to keep up with the nonsense. EU261 does not keep airlines on their toes and does not stop 15 hour delays from happening.

It is perfectly reasonable to compare it to bus, train or any other method of public transport. All of them provide a contract and service to get you from A to B. If an airline fails to do so then why must they provide the Earth to someone at great expense and then also give them more money? Why can my local train operator not to that every time I arrive late?

This OP, who I am sure is on the wind up anyway, has been reminded of his 15 hour delay 5 or so years after the event by some dodgy company looking to take a handsome cut of whatever he "wins". Quite why the ruling needs to allow for claims from 6 years ago is beyond me. If someone wants to claim for EU261 then why wait 5 years to do so? In my opinion there should be a limit of no more than 1 month after the flight to lodge a claim, there really is no reason to drag a 5 year old holiday flight up. Like others, I sincerely hope the OP goes through a long, tedious process and eventually gets nothing at all.

Why are the amounts fixed so that someone who spends maybe €80 on a flight from London to Berlin can magically receive a hotel room worth around €150, meals worth around €40 and then also claim compensation for up to €250 when their flight is disrupted? Why is that person set to make a profit off of the airline? How does this money drain in any way improve the performance of the airline or its service to passengers?

Once Hotac and meals have been provided, they should not get a penny more. This is why travel insurance was created. The airlines cannot even defend themselves properly as the rules on what counts as an extraordinary event have been decided by people have no experience or knowledge of running something as complex as an airline or airport. If they had either the rules would be far more reasonable.

The whole ruling is utter madness and is clearly designed to put airlines out of business (especially targeting the smaller, regional airlines with very little profit margin as it is and very little in the way of contingency) and in no way actually improves the situation for passengers. No one should be surprised that many of the professionals on this board are irritated by EU261. The majority of this boards livelihoods depend on aviation. Those who set out to deliberately suck money out of the industry for no reason other than because some rent-a-claim call centre cold called them out of the blue will clearly come under attack.

I have lost count of the number of times, in my role at the airport, that in the event of a delay or cancellation, the first and sometimes only question on peoples lips was "...and how much compensation can I claim from this?". The actual Hotel, meals, rerouting etc was totally irrelevant to a lot of them, they just wanted money. :ugh:

[111KAB]

What I fail to understand after reading various posts on this and other forums is that if people feel so strongly that the law is an ass why do they do little or nothing about it?

When the CAA/NEB produced their list of what were deemed to be extraordinary circumstances when compensation payment should not be paid I understand the EU received representation regarding issuing the list (not confirmed whether these representations were for or against but I believe the vast majority were against) from 22 parties with private individuals being the major contributors. Ask the airline you work for if they contacted the EU in support of this list …. I bet the answer is no.

In talking to my local MEP (who did sit on the EU Transportation Committee) he confirmed that I was the only person who had ever contacted him regarding 261/2004. How many of you (whether in agreement or not) have contacted your MP, your MEP, the UK representatives on the EU Transportation Committee, The EU itself or indeed the EU Ombudsman (who happens to be a lady!) ?

Any representation (which I can assure you is very limited) the airlines make is generally through the CAA however our NEB is, in effect, funded by the airline industry so you can understand why the EU have some difficulty with this.

There is an election coming up in the UK soon…. Some of you might vote, others not however there is no point in complaining about how the country is run if you don’t vote. Likewise there is no point in arguing with the odd poster on this or other forums if you believe that 261/2004 is flawed, you would be better spending your time taking the matter up with the people who matter.

[Mark in CA]

I really don't understand why so many of you are blaming the victim here. The law is the law, and apparently allows claims up to 6 years after the the fact. If the law if flawed, that's a separate issue, and for now it is what it is and this fellow is within his rights. Similarly, if you have issues with lawyers, attack the lawyers. Do you also think it was "immoral" or bad form for people to demanded compensation from various European governments 50 or 60 or more years after WWII for losses suffered back then, some of whom are still trying to have their property returned? In many of these cases, proper documentation was also unavailable, yet ways were found around that. Sure, the magnitude may be different, but not the principle.

[Porky Speedpig]

Not sure if I am unique in this but at the bottom of this thread appears an advert from Bott and Co, the leading lights of pressing 261 claims in the UK!

[Mark in CA]

>Not sure if I am unique in this but at the bottom of this thread appears an advert from Bott and Co, the leading lights of pressing 261 claims in the UK!

I guess your browser isn't equipped with Ad Blocker Plus. :)

[Hotel Tango]

Why are the amounts fixed so that someone who spends maybe €80 on a flight from London to Berlin can magically receive a hotel room worth around €150, meals worth around €40 and then also claim compensation for up to €250 when their flight is disrupted? Why is that person set to make a profit off of the airline? How does this money drain in any way improve the performance of the airline or its service to passengers?

You obviously only fly with the best edi-local :) I don't think that you will get overnight accommodation and food paid for you by all carriers. To a certain extent that is why EU261 was set up! Also don't forget that EU261 applies to a delay of more than 3 hours. That is a considerable time and it does give the airline some time to organise alternatives. How often is your bus or train delayed by more than 3 hours? Yes, back in the days that we paid excessive fares and airlines consequently looked after their stranded passengers there was no need for EU261. Today it's a different ball game, created in part by the low cost model. When purchasing a fare on a scheduled service from A to B, I am entering into a contract to be provided that service as advertised, and not with the sole guarantee that I get to B at a time of their choosing!

[PAXboy]

Porky Speedpig
Not sure if I am unique in this but at the bottom of this thread appears an advert from ...As I understand it, the ad system looks for key words and picks accordingly. I think it's very clever the way it 'follows' the thread and i enjoy seeing what it will offer next.

[ExXB]

HT,
Regulation 261 requires airlines to cover the costs for food, refreshment and accommodation regardless of the length of delay of the flight. This is regardless of the cause of the delay, I.e. No extraordinary circumstances defence.

Cash compensation is payable only ünder certain circumstances, based on vague rulings of the ECJ. There are no rules set out in the regulation of when and where compensation for delays is payable.

[Ancient Observer]

Ex,
where did the umlaut come from? I want one of those.

[PAXboy]

Perhaps it's because Exxb is an über member? Or does that just make him a taxi driver?

[YorkshireTyke]

By the way did Thomson not accommodate you and provide refreshment vouchers during your delays?Thomson might, but Air New Zealand don't - friend's wifes 11.00 pm flight delayed after check-in and security procedures until the following day, meal vouchers only distributed after all the terminal restaurants had closed, no accommodation provided, mattresses brought in and told to sleep on the Terminal floor.

"National" airline at main base - Auckland. 3rd World treatment.

[111KAB]

Ancient Observer ..... what you have to do is hold the ALT key down and use the number key pads generally starting with 128 ....


EG


â (131) ....ü (129) ....é (130) .... ¿ (168)


etc

[Ancient Observer]

Ta.
I will try that. ü. Great.

[ExXB]

AO, if you are using an iOS device or a Mac just hold the u key. You are presented with a choice ū, ù, û, ü, ú. Works with any accented characters ŵ, ė, ŷ, ū, ì, õ, ã, š, ł, ż, č, ñ,

Obviously I was not paying attention.

[Porky Speedpig]

Yorkshire,
Non EU based carriers are only subject to regulation 261/2004 for flights within or leaving the EU, NOT inbound flights.

[S.o.S.]

I think it's best to post this here and keep the topic in one place as it exactly covers the point of this thread:

BBC News - Airlines face court threat over customer services (http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31998530)

[radeng]

Some years back, weather caused cancellation of an internal Air France flight from CDG to Strasburg. I was bounced from the following flight......AF put me on a later flight (subsequently cancelled and I was sent to Mulhouse and a taxi provided from there) but without me asking, gave me a voucher for €350....

And they didn't lose my bag......which for CDG, is a bonus!

[esa-aardvark]

I don't think there is any compensation down here in NZ.
I missed my very long connection in Sydney last Monday.
The incoming aircraft which was to carry us out was diverted
due to weather and spent 4 hours and more on the ground
in Canberra being refueled. Apparently after my incoming
flight landed at Sydney the Airport was closed for incoming,
although the weather did not seem that bad. Of course the Airline
which I had booked on made all kind of promises in Sydney,
and then refused to honour them in Auckland.

My hope is that the new regulations will lead to better procedures
and better operational decision making, so that the need for compensation
will be reduced. Of course there is no hope of such a rule here.

Just off to claim on my travel insurance, we shall see if that works.

[PAXboy]

esa-aardvark Your story point towards needing to set your mobile (cell) phone to 'record' before approaching the counter staff.

One of the routines I've had is:

"Speak to the agent at the destination, they will have all the information"
"Oh no. Only the agent at the origination has that information."

and variations on that theme. :rolleyes:

[esa-aardvark]

Paxboy,
good advice indeed !

[Hotel Tango]

Indeed. One thing I discovered a long time ago is to never trust anything said, or promises made, by a check-in agent.

[PAXboy]

In fairness to agents and counter staff, we have discussed in here before the problem that staff are not given the power to right wrongs. In previous decades, staff had the authority to issue vouchers or whatever. After the financial recession of 1990/92 the accountants took over and cut all that away.

Therefore, fobbing us off is all they can do. Not least as we now demand more and the big problem that many pax do not understand the Ts&Cs of LCCs. So it is a horrible twist of factors.

[Hotel Tango]

PAXboy, true of course. Also in earlier days most ground staff were employed directly by the airline rather than a handling agent. If it was staff from a handling agent there were generally one or two of the airline's own representatives on hand. And, as you rightly say, they had a great deal of autonomy back in those days. Now days I have found that many check-in staff are hired for the Summer peak and are basically trained as robots to the extent that when I approach the check-in desk with passport in hand, opened to the photo page, and extended towards them, the agents greet me with, "May I see your passport Sir"! :hmm:

[ExXB]

We should recall that the drafters of Regulation 261 did NOT consider it appropriate to include compensation for delays in the Regulation. The idea was debated with the consensus being that MOST delays were not the same as a cancellation (or a denied boarding).

It was the ECJ that ruled thatt SOME delays COULD BE as bad as a cancellation and it was unfair that IN THESE CASES compensation wasn't payable.

One case involved a 24 hour delay where passengers were actually accommodated on the airline's next daily flight. The original flight was never 'cancelled', by it never operated either.

I understand the Parliament has redrafted 261 to take into account the ECJs various rulings. However it is frozen until two governments withdraw their objections to one clause referring to Gibraltar. I'm sure glad we have adults in Brussels.

[cockney steve]

My daughter recently was delayed 4 hours, Manchester-Holland (Schiphol?)
She claimed the statutory compensation and , afaik, it was the Orange Airline paid her promptly and courteously.
The delay caused all sorts of problems in Holland and during the sprint for a train/tram ,she encountered a colleague who was also similarly inconvenienced. Luckily, they both had a good working knowledge of the Public Transport Timetables and were, ~ midnight, able to reach their destinations in a timely manner.
Most posters have overlooked the TIME COST to the Pax.
In Daughter's case she values her leisure-time highly, she prefers an on-schedule transport to compensation for an unscheduled disruption of her social life.


Why moan , if this jacks up fares, it will get rid of the scummy-grockle end of the trade, premium fares for the elite will again prevail and Flight Crews will once more have a lucrative and well-paid career.....unfortunately, there will be a lot less of them needed....As with most things, the lower the price, the larger the number who can afford.
If an airline is properly organised, this legislation should not harm it. I haven't heard about the canny Irishman filing for bankruptcy, have you?

[T250]

I was stuck on the M25 earlier today for over an hour due to road traffic collision involving 4 vehicles which caused a 2 lane closure and long tail backs.

Please can I claim for compensation for my time, for my wasted fuel, for my bruised ego and whatever other stress I may (or may not) have encountered? :}

Why is it airlines that get penalised by such regulations, I would very much like to send my compensation claim into the Highways Agency or Department for Transport for today's inconvenience because I am sure it could have been avoided or at least reduced if police stopped middle lane drivers, if the driving test included motorway driving, if the Department of Transport raised the speed limit to 80mph... The list goes on, maybe I should claim this with the European Courts too? :ugh:

Sometimes :mad: happens, no one is at overall or total fault, therefore no one can be held 100% accountable. Yet with airlines it is always totally their fault.

[ExXB]

Yet with airlines it is always totally their fault.

Not True! When it isn't their fault, weather; ATC strike; runway closure; etc, nobody pays.

Cockney Steve, if you daughter's flight was delayed because of ATC, don't you think her TIME COST loss would have been the same? So, why shouldn't she be paid in those circumstances.

Airlines DO NOT guarantee their schedules and, in contract law, it does not form part of the contract with the passenger.

Just out of curiosity, what percentage of the total ticket cost was the compensation. I'm guessing it was much more ...

[Hotel Tango]

T250, if you want to take that route, which would have been YOUR choice incidentally, than yes you could technically apply for compensation by suing the person responsible for causing the accident ;)

A few years back a flight the family and I were on was cancelled. The airline re-routed us and we ensued a delay of 5 hours. When we were being re-ticketed the airline representative voluntarily gave us an EU261 Regulation brochure and said we could claim. So I thought, why not. Got the usual standard denial of responsibility from the airline, which niggled me and motivated me further to prove that they were telling big fibs in their explanation. I received my compensation. Original fare totaled €560 and I received €1000 compensation. Their representative pointed the way and I followed the legal procedure. Did I feel guilty? The answer is a resounding NO!

[cockney steve]

The whole idea of Punitive Damages, is, I thought, to dissuade the transgressor.
In th past, some operators have deliberately overbooked and used devious means to "get off the hook"...The draconian penalties mean the operators will have to leave a bit more of a buffer in their operation.
On a personal level, I disagree with the punitive aspect. compensation, yes.
Had there been more honesty and transparency and less sharp practice in "the race to the bottom" this legislation would have been superfluous.
They have been hoist with their own petard and dragged the decent operators with them..

[PAXboy]

cockney steve You describe almost the entire gamut of human life. Unfortunately, the ones still getting away with it include politicians, house builders and others. You can fill in the usual suspects ...