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routetuner
12th Mar 2015, 14:03
Volunteeers for bases? Surely the same as volunteers for training? What do you think?

wheels up
12th Mar 2015, 14:59
I think you should find yourself a cross and nail yourself to it, since the moral high ground will provide a lofty perch to look down on the rest of us mere mortals who would rather have a life.

Arfur Dent
12th Mar 2015, 20:37
Unfortunately for the greater good, I think if you're offered a base - take it!!:confused:

iceman50
13th Mar 2015, 00:00
routetuner

Think you are correct the HKAOA should recommend all officers NOT to volunteer for a base as it is HELPING out the company. No difference to volunteering for training or upgrade.:rolleyes:

Will IB Fayed
13th Mar 2015, 00:07
That is utterly ridiculous. Family decisions far outweigh any petty work games.

Just Do It
13th Mar 2015, 00:41
If you get offered a base.......TAKE IT!!!!!!

If you get offered a Command........TAKE IT!!!!!

The goal post's can change overnight.

The sooner you can get on a base and get a contract that has some protection, the better.

Best of luck to those that are successful in getting one!

Sand Man
13th Mar 2015, 20:28
Just Do It, I don't follow what you are trying to say.
If you get offered a base.......TAKE IT!!!!!!

If you get offered a Command........TAKE IT!!!!!

The goal post's can change overnight.

The sooner you can get on a base and get a contract that has some protection, the better.

Best of luck to those that are successful in getting one!
Can you please explain how you can take a base and command at the same time.
Which one take precedence over the other?

Will IB Fayed
14th Mar 2015, 02:52
Can you please explain how you can take a base and command at the same time.

If you're the most senior person bidding for the Captains base slot, you get it right? There might be some 25yr FO's out there???

Arfur Dent
14th Mar 2015, 05:47
Cathay, in their infinite wisdom have a system that is unique in the world regarding promotion on a Base. As a based FO you have a huge decision to make when Command Course ( don't get me started) time comes up. Not just a few well thought out sectors under the guidance (stop it) and help of the Training (!) Dept to assist in changing seats, but a complete and utter life-changing move for you and your Family to Hong Kong for, basically the rest of your career. Certainly for about 10 years by which time most kids will be long gone. Oh and 60-odd sectors to prove yourself all over again. Can you go back on your Base as an FO if you fail the 'Course'? You are joking right!
So here we have the predictable result which is that over a hundred perfectly capable FOs have decided to stay on their Bases, with their Families and forego a Command for ever. What a criminal waste.
Well done to our forward thinking "Leaders".:mad:

iceman50
14th Mar 2015, 08:34
Arfur

It is a Hong Kong airline FFS!:ugh::ugh:

flyingbynight
14th Mar 2015, 10:34
Volunteering for abase now is like going home from the picket lines in a strike and then volunteering for overtime! Don't do it. CC is a withdrawl of your goodwill. If CX is desperate for based pilots and you become one, you've helped to put out another fire for them. Don't do it - please - not for a while. Your day will come soon enough if we all just sit tight and keep our goodwill to ourselves.

RHEINHARD
14th Mar 2015, 11:23
Absolute horse sh@t. Take the base you can. Family comes first. And no ur turn will not necessarily come around in the future. If the Union want to pay for your kids asthma medication and air purifiers in your home I'm sure they will cough up tomorrow. Take the fr&gging base if you're able.

ron burgandy
14th Mar 2015, 12:03
So will all you "don't take a base now" crowd all be the first ones jumping up and down going nuts when they employ directly on the base because the bases were undersubscribed.
Seriously, you people need to get a grip. Taking a base and having the opportunity to be covered by a first world industrial legal system sounds like a good idea to me.

airplaneridesrfun
14th Mar 2015, 13:27
Sounds like a hyped up D scale. Take a 25% paycut just to take a base? Perhaps people are about to grow a set and say to CX "A contract is a contract".

Shot Nancy
14th Mar 2015, 15:38
Family comes first
If the Union want to pay for your kids asthma medication and air purifiers in your home I'm sure they will cough up tomorrow.

Reads like you have joined the wrong airline.
As said before it is a HKG airline.

Will IB Fayed
15th Mar 2015, 00:27
Take a 25% paycut just to take a base?
It would take a lot more than a 25% payrise to get me off my base.

Will IB Fayed
15th Mar 2015, 01:21
Not a chance.
I pay just shy of $50,000hkd/month in tax and mortgage per month, and I wouldn't have it any other way!

Enjoy that 3500m in "mist" today/tonight.

hkgdream
15th Mar 2015, 23:05
Take the base:

1. Everyone on a base has more legal protection than anyone in HKG. This puts more pressure on the company to do the right thing

2. Every base has better food and air than HKG - you will live longer

3. Your kids will have a better life

4. You might be richer in HKG (if you own property), but you only live once. Think of what you can do on a day off on a base versus HKG

5. If you don't take a base the company will have direct entry onto the bases (again).

Will IB Fayed
16th Mar 2015, 00:33
^ What he said.

Captain Dart
16th Mar 2015, 02:16
... and the Paris base didn't exactly save them money, did it?

Arfur Dent
16th Mar 2015, 06:57
Paris Base story is a cautionary tale for all new CX employees.
1. Cathay set up the Base with minimum research as to the correct procedures required.
2. French Government discovers that a foreign based Company is running an extensive operation on its soil illegally.
3. French Government threatens Cathay with huge fines and possible imprisonment of senior staff unless it pays back taxes of many types or closes the Base before a certain date (10 weeks hence).
4. Cathay, with no regard for the implications regarding 42 Paris based employees and their Families, shuts the Base and tells all employees to move to Hong Kong. Not 'operate from Frankfurt while we sort this out"! Move the whole lot including kids in the middle of critical times at School, wives who have wonderful jobs. Sickness etc etc - all irrelevant. Move to Hong Kong or be fired, whoever you are.
5. DFO writes that CX are being helpful and that employees should feel grateful that they are being offered positions with the same employer.
Here endeth the lesson.
You have been warned!!:mad:

BlunderBus
16th Mar 2015, 19:27
The 'research' you're talking about is freely available info for ANY company setting up onshore. Immigration, taxation and company liability regarding social security and govt. fees/taxes are all CLEARLY documented for an individual let alone a multi billion dollar conglomerate with a huge legal budget(they need one given all the litigation they insist on calling down upon themselves). There is only ONE reason the company sets up bases the way the do and that is to totally avoid the costs of doing business on shore. Have your cake and eat it too. Unfortunately the onshore govt's don't agree and several legal actions have proven time and again that employees rights prevail in the real world and that using off shore tax haven shelf corps. to abuse labour laws will not be tolerated. Paris is a perfect example...and aren't they running for cover now?
If you try to be too clever for your own good...you have to be clever in the first place...:=

Arfur I totally agree with your post :)

Kasompe
16th Mar 2015, 19:48
Gonna be fun watching RH squirm on the stand in Court in Paris once he's no longer DFO and no longer has CX to back him up. Karma.:ok:

bell1st
17th Mar 2015, 01:34
Easy! Every email RH sent out further unified the pilots against the company!

controlledrest
17th Mar 2015, 20:37
And now the company is throwing $$$$ at lawyers to appeal the NZ employment court ruling - spending $$$$ not to comply with the laws of a place they do business.

Why not spend less money on simply complying?

If the company doesn't win the appeal, AKL base will close. The cost of moving the AKL pilots back to HKG and their increased costs for education allowances and housing will be much more costly than complying with NZ law. But its not about the money. Its about doing it the CX way.

Not Hiding
19th Mar 2015, 16:45
See this post:

http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/558445-cathay-sued-usa-illegal-termination.html#post8908138

RusCo
21st Mar 2015, 21:26
So what you all are saying is don't take a base..hmmm...I suspect those saying don't take a base are so junior that a base is a dream

I am sure if a base were available to those nay sayers they would be packing their bags.

Trafalgar
22nd Mar 2015, 01:19
Cut and Paste and save the above comment. I predict in 3-5 years Curtain will have been proven largely correct. If they can strangle housing, then there is very little need for basings. As for USA onshoring, I predict another epic debacle. Already starting with the A day fiasco. A US based colleague told me he is now forced to spend 50 - 60 days more a year in a hotel at his own expense. Almost TWO months more away from home at his expense each year. Yes, just handed in his notice and leaving for a US major. Another own goal. This lot couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag with a pair of scissors. Words fail me. But let's keep 'working hard' like the CEO says, to ensure the management bonuses stay high, and maybe next year the rest of the staff might get $2500K profit sharing. I'm motivated, how about you?

Frogman1484
22nd Mar 2015, 02:33
I heard they will be offering Australian bases again this year...but no bases for Captains, due to long service leave requirements!

Another case of discrimination...maybe another court case!:ugh:

Just Do It
22nd Mar 2015, 02:46
How does rank affect Long Service Leave?

CCA
22nd Mar 2015, 02:47
Any suggestions on how to get demoted rather than fired :}

asianeagle
22nd Mar 2015, 02:55
If they can strangle housing, then there is very little need for basings.

Don't get this!
If they strangle housing, no one except for a few who already own their place, will stay surely??

No housing = mass exodus, so can't see them strangling both :confused:

Frogman1484
22nd Mar 2015, 03:41
The longer you have worked with Cx the longer the long service leave will be.

Just Do It
22nd Mar 2015, 03:55
OK, thought that might be the case, seems they are just kicking the can further down the road. How do you prove a discrimination case in an Australian court with HKG based personnel applying for positions based on "CX manning level requirements"? Just spit balling...

CCA
22nd Mar 2015, 04:54
No housing = mass exodus

Really, where to, all those other airlines that are hiring?

Sorry some will leave out of spite, the rest will all stay.

asianeagle
22nd Mar 2015, 06:06
Well, if I have to now pay my rent here, I will lose money.
Might as well lose money in my home country and start another career etc etc.

Staying in HKG with established families and no housing is a non starter for those that are already here.

Sure we could all go live in a shoe box Tuen Mun but wifey ain't gonna like that:{