UK military health care worker has Ebola

[Surplus]

BBC News - UK female military health worker has Ebola (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31841432)

'They' are deciding whether to fly her back for treatment to the UK. Given that other countries have always flown infected people back in order to receive the best treatment and drugs, we'll have to wait and see whether her life is as valuable as a non-military volunteer.

[Shack37]

She should be brought back to UK for treatment ASAP.

[NutLoose]

WTF why is there even any debate over it, it makes her appear to be a second class citizen for being in the military..

[Courtney Mil]

The "Military" has an obligation to care for their own anyway. Or is that obligation as flexible as the Military Covenant"?

[Party Animal]

Don't forget that someone will have to complete a 5 page 'Business Case' to argue there is an imperative to bring the individual home. Whoever writes the BC will have to cost out all of the civvy fare options including air transport versus overland donkey and why the individual must travel as opposed to treatment in theatre, with medical ebola specialists talking the nurses through via a VTC. Clearly any VTC option would be limited to 128kb streaming because J6 said that would be the cheapest option for the provision of the capability. Finally, after the BC has been approved by 3 different committees, it will move up the signature chain from SO1 thro 1*, then a military 2* will need to agree to it. Finally,finally, it wil be debated by J8 and only if it passes the Daily Mail test, will a civil servant sqn leader equivalent make the decision to approve it!

[Uncle Ginsters]

I'm sure there was no question as to their evacuation:

Ebola: RAF sends plane to help UK military worker http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31845947

[Surplus]

British doctors and soldiers will not be guaranteed return to UK if they contract Ebola - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11155097/British-doctors-and-soldiers-will-not-be-guaranteed-return-to-UK-if-they-contract-Ebola.html)

An old telegraph headline from when troops were first mooted to go, that's why there was good reason to doubt the 'automatic' return of an infected military member for best medical care.

Relevant extract:

'However, both the Department of Health and the Ministry of Defence admitted yesterday that medical and military personnel would not be guaranteed repatriation if they developed Ebola while working on the relief effort.
Instead, they could be treated in field hospitals in Sierra Leone and would only be flown home on a “case by case” basis, the departments said.'

[Uncle Ginsters]

Surplus,

I think with the benefit of hindsight we can put that article into context as political caveatting; as it intimates below your quote, the country was on the verge of mass-hysteria over importing Ebola through our ports and airports. Further to that, our prime Aeromed mover, C-17, was heavily engaged in closing out 13 years of Afghan ops at that time (Oct 14)

Since then there have been two successful (albeit one quite close!) recoveries in well-controlled circumstances at the RFH. Also, not publicised have been a number of Aeromed recoveries of personnel from that theatre without Ebola diagnosis. Although they all go through the Aeromed prioritisation process, there has been little doubt over their recovery either.

I, for one, don't doubt the UK's commitment to get our people back.

[Shack37]

From the DT

British Army medic with Ebola evacuated with two other suspected cases - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11466376/British-Army-medic-with-Ebola-being-flown-back-to-UK.HTML)

Good!!!

[Martin the Martian]

I cannot see that any diagnosis of ebola to a British aid worker or member of the armed forces would NOT result in an aeromed back to the RFH, whatever has been said or hinted at by the politicians.

[Wyler]

This makes me bloody furious.

Mrs Wyler worked with a Consultant a while ago who is a reservist. He and others were called 'south' to be told that a presence was required in the form of a Field Hospital. Every medical professional present, regular and reservist, said it was a pointless exercise as there was no cure and a Fieldd Hospital would achieve nothing. However, said Minister' stated (allegedly) that it would be good PR for the Government and they must be seen to do something.
All returned to their jobs believing this had been rejected. Fast forward and we now have a fairly substantial presence and said Consultant has been given dates for his next TWO stints. His specialisation is about as far removed from disease control/treatment as you can get.
One of my closest friends has a daughter who is an RAF ODP (helps in Theatre). She has been given her date to go and, it beggars belief, has been told she may well not be repatriated to the UK should she become infected.
If this individual dies I would like to see a Cabinet Level Minister in the dock for corporate manslaughter. These F*ckwits in power are a disgrace.

[Heathrow Harry]

I really really doubt that any politician has any hand is this mad state of affairs - they know only to well what the National Press would do to them...

no - it has all the marks of a senior Civil Servant worried that we might have to repatriate hundreds of infected troops and treat them in the UK when they could, really, just be left to die in some W African hell-hole

that way his/her budget remains intact and no-one will see the papers for 100 years when they'l be happily dead with their Knighthoods

[BBK]

BBC reporting that she was flown back by the RAF and is now in the Royal Free. Good news one hopes for her and her family.

[Surplus]

Good news she is getting the best possible care.

This week we have 1 confirmed case and 4 suspected cases arriving back to the UK, not counting the other two military 'possible' cases still in country. I must have a rummage around the old thread, where several seemingly better informed people accused us 'laymen' of scaremongering and not listening to the 'professional health care workers' and 'expert virologists'. I'm sure that I'm not alone in wondering, how these people are getting infected, they know they are in daily contact with the disease, using all the procedures and equipment to ensure they are not in danger and yet we are seeing a steady increase in the number of our infected people. Perhaps a better informed person would care to comment?

[air pig]

Surplus:

Maybe just maybe there has been an air of complacency creeping into their procedures. This is not is repeat not a criticism, but a human factors thing. Perform a task long enough you tend to go on automatic when preforming it, I'm sure the CRM instructors here could comment on what I have said and if I am accurate in my observations.

To the very brave people out there and those who are ill, come home safe and get well soon. Big :D:D:D:D:D:D to all involved from TMW and 99 Squadron.

If there are a potential two other cases in theatre and it's not been reported, I think you made an error of judgement by posting it here, if it has not been officially released. That would only bring distress to NoK across the whole contingent out there.

[Surplus]

I too echo your sentiments about the great job they are doing. :D:D:D:D.

However, I'm not sure that I'd be complacent knowing the results of any slip-up.

Accidents do happen, my wife is a nurse and she underwent an horrific time when she was involved in a blood spatter incident. Fortunately, the patient agreed to a blood test to determine whether she had any infections so my wife was spared a longer period of uncertainty.

If complacency is ruled out, how are they getting infected if the transmission causes are known? Is the equipment effective, are procedures robust enough, or can it all be put down to accidents?

Whatever the cause, my thoughts are with this lady and her family.

[air pig]

They are going to have to carefully investigate the situation, but tired people make errors, as we have all seen far too often in aviation and other sphere's of activity.

[Wyler]

I refer you to my earlier post. The Governament have done this with nothing more than media coverage in mind.
The people being sent, up to and including Consultants, are non specialists in this kind of healthcare.
Therefore, in my humble opinion, the mistakes are down to lack of training and specialist skills.
If you get someone from the local bike shop to service your car then expect problems.
Absolutely disgraceful and I hope those brought home make a speedy recovery and then phone a Lawyer.

[air pig]

Having two people who are friends who are involved in tis situation I know how detailed and through the training has been. One is RAMC and one is a professor of trauma who specialises is disaster medicine. The prof is just about to start his second 'tour'. A lot of the work is keeping patients hydrated and comfortable, you don't need an FRCS for that, but you do need meticulous attention to detail about IPC standards. if you wish pm me withan e-mail I can send you a link for a blog site for the prof.

For dealing with all the political cr*p and inter organisational point scoring you do require people at consultant level +

[Wyler]

Air Pig

Thanks and fair point.

I can only draw on the comments from the Consultant my other half worked with, and he was seething. The Minister standing up and bleating on about PR for the Government did not fill the room with any sort of confidence. Ultimately, the health Professionals were over ruled.

[Davef68]

they must be seen to do something.

And there is the rationale for every stupid Govt decision to intervene or introduce new legislation

[air pig]

Wyler:

From the blogs it was not just the government with the problem, it went far wider. Have left you a web address and how to see what Chris has written..

Davef68:

With international air travel, where would you rather treat the disease, in West Africa or Central London or Hillingdon hospital in an A/E such as St Thomas's or UCH.

[Davef68]

air pig,

It was more of a general comment than on the current situation. The 'must been seen to do something' mantra motivates politicians far too often.

[air pig]

Davef68:

That is the mantra of politicians not just our more recent and current crop of self servers, and the same the world over.