SIC endorsement on FAA licence

[AviatorKLGB]

Hi People,

I have a F2TH rating on my EASA licence and also hold a FAA ATPL which doesn't have the rating on it.

I fly with FAA typed pilots all of whom could sign me off to get the SIC on my FAA licence. (simply to give myself the ability to sit right seat in a FAA registered Falcon should the need arise).

Does anyone know if it is possible to get the paperwork done in the UK/Europe without having to visit an actual FSDO in the states?

If so please advise...

Many thanks.

[Above The Clouds]

As you already have it on your EASA licence that is classed as a PIC rating, therefore do an FAA command upgrade course at CAE and put it on your FAA licence as PIC ;)

[AviatorKLGB]

Thanks for the suggestion ATC.

My original thought was simply to do a two for one (EASA and FAA LPC) when I do my recurrent if that's even possible and get it on my licence that way. Only I haven't been able to convince the people that pay for my recurrent that it's a valuable addition.

In what way does the FAA Command upgrade course help exactly? The full type rating would of course be better.

[Above The Clouds]

It would be a full type on your FAA licence but doing the command upgrade course is a shorter quicker route than doing the full initial for the FAA, you can only do this so long as your EASA rating is current.

[AviatorKLGB]

So do the FAA not give any dispensation for holders of a type rating on other ICAO licences? The FAA used to be pretty good at that sort of thing.

Other than your nice sounding shortcut, a full FAA type rating course would be required?

Shocking...

[B200Drvr]

AviatorKLGB. When you say "I fly with FAA typed pilots all of whom could sign me off to get the SIC on my FAA licence" please don't think that a type rating and ATPL allows them to do that. There is more to it than that and if you are not in the US, chances are they cannot do it as that is done under FAA part 135.
What I am saying is that if you are in Europe, an FAA ATPL pilot cannot endorse your FAA certificate for a F2TH (SIC ONLY) Read the regs objectively, and don't listen to a pilot who believes he can do that for you under part 91.

[B200Drvr]

However, because you already hold an FAA ATPL and an EASA license with the F2TH PIC rating, I am sure you can add it to your FAA certificate during a recurrent. You just need an FAA TRI present to do the differences. i.e. Written, oral and some additional flight requirements.

[PSF2J]

AviatorKLGB......PM me and I can update you fully and put you in contact with the right FAA person in the UK.

[NuName]

Quote: please don't think that a type rating and ATPL allows them to do that.
Yes it does actually.:rolleyes:

[ahwalk01]

ATP holders can instruct, but that doesn't give them examining authority.

For the issuance of an FAA SIC you'd need to log the (authorised) ground and flight training, and visit a FSDO.

Second-In-Command Type Rating | NBAA - National Business Aviation Association (http://www.nbaa.org/admin/personnel/sic/)

Instead, if it is a piggyback FAA license based on your EASA one, then this process may help.

Airmen Certification ? Administrative Process for the Reissuance of FAA Pilot Certificates (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/easa/)

[NuName]

FAA ATPL type rated pilots can do all that is needed for the issue of a SIC endorsement, I have received it and also given it, obviously the required paperwork has to be submitted to a FSDO at which time a temporary 120 day certificate would be issued. I would be reluctant to insinuate the the FSDO in New York do not know their business.

[flydive1]

Instead, if it is a piggyback FAA license based on your EASA one, then this process may help.

Airmen Certification ? Administrative Process for the Reissuance of FAA Pilot Certificates (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/easa/)

Unfortunately, works only if you have a change of license number.

[B200Drvr]

[/COLOR]ATP holders can only instruct under a certified Part 135 company program. NuName, Do you really believe that as an FAA ATP holder you can issue a SIC rating on a G550 or the likes?


A pilot may get an SIC type rating by completing SIC familiarization training as described in 61.55(d), or by satisfactorily completing an approved second-in-command training program or a proficiency check under parts 121, 125, or 135 as described in 61.55(e).

In either case, the application and pilot certification procedures for getting an SIC type rating is the same. The only difference is that under a training program conducted under parts 121, 125, or 135, the applicant has the option of presenting documentation to the Aircrew Program Designee for processing in addition to being able to present training documentation to an FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) or Examiner.

Note: There is no practical test required for the issuance of the ‘‘SIC Privileges Only’’ pilot type rating.

For complete guidance, please refer to the final rule or 14 CFR 61.55. The summary of the process is as follows:

1) The SIC pilot type rating applicant receives familiarization training under 61.55(b) from a qualified pilot in command or an authorized flight instructor who holds the aircraft type rating on his/her pilot certificate.

2) The trainer signs the applicant's logbook or training record after each lesson in accordance with 61.51(h)(2). In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant’s training records or logbook and make the required endorsement. See 61.55 for the definition of a qualified management official.

3) The trainer or qualified management official makes an endorsement in the applicant's logbook that states ''[Applicant's Name and Pilot Certificate Number] has demonstrated the skill and knowledge required for the safe operation of the [Type of Aircraft], relevant to the duties and responsibilities of a second-in-command.''

4) The applicant completes and signs an Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710-1, and presents the application and a paper copy of the training records containing the signature of the trainer or qualified management official to a FSDO or Examiner.

5) The person who provided the ground and flight training to the applicant must sign the "Instructor’s Recommendation" section of FAA Form 8710–1.

6) The applicant must appear in person at FSDO or to an Examiner with his or her logbook/training records and with the completed and signed FAA Form 8710–1.

The FAA Airman Certification Branch has developed application and certification procedures to be used in expediting the process of applying for an SIC type rating. Review a sample application.

(3) A flight instructor certificate issued under this part is not necessary—
(i) Under paragraph (d)(2) of this section, if the training is given by the holder of a commercial pilot certificate with a lighter-than-air rating, provided the training is given in accordance with the privileges of the certificate in a lighter-than-air aircraft;
(ii) Under paragraph (d)(2) of this section, if the training is given by the holder of an airline transport pilot certificate with a rating appropriate to the aircraft in which the training is given, provided the training is given in accordance with the privileges of the certificate and conducted in accordance with an approved air carrier training program approved under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter;
(iii) Under paragraph (d)(2) of this section, if the training is given by a person who is qualified in accordance with subpart C of part 142 of this chapter, provided the training is conducted in accordance with an approved part 142 training program;
(iv) Under paragraphs (d)(2)(i), (d)(2)(ii)(C), and (d)(2)(iii) of this section, if the training is given by the holder of a ground instructor certificate in accordance with the privileges of the certificate; or
(v) Under paragraph (d)(2)(iii) of this section, if the training is given by an authorized flight instructor under § 61.41 of this part.

[NuName]

B200Drvr, as I previously wrote "obviously the required paperwork has to be submitted to a FSDO at which time a temporary 120 day certificate would be issued" it sort of says that only the FAA FSDO can issue a certificate, but, as a type rated FAA ATPL I can do all that is required for another pilot to be issued the SIC rating. Please do not put words into my mouth, I simply comply with the rules I do not make them. I have a SIC that was issued in this manner and I have also provided the service for another, if you read your own post it confirms all I have said. What is your problem. By the way I received SIC for a CL604 and gave for a DA900. Its not what I believe, its what happened.

[B200Drvr]

Nuname, I have no problem, just read the regs!!

[ahwalk01]

I have known people come to examiners during a break in a checkride oral to get them to type out a temporary. If you have the training signed off by at ATP/CFI on iacra, you could try your luck with a dPE. I don't know if flightsafety examiners can do this also, might be worth an ask.

[PSF2J]

B200drvr,

You are quite wrong.

Under 61.55 OR an approved training program.

Try reading 61.55 first.

Therefore an ATP has privileges under 61.55 to train an SIC. Speak to the FAA. I've completed the necessary training for several pilots, and then sent them to the FAA rep in the UK to get a temporary issued. Oh, and the types I've done that on include the G550, Falcon2000EXEASy, and a selection of Citations.

PSF2J

[Pace]

I have also done the same on two pilots! No problems with the FAA issuing the SIC which I am sure there would be if there was a legal problem doing so! If they don't know their own regs how are we expected to?

Pace

[cambioso]

Me too - Falcon 2000 EASy x 2 ratings.
You're postulating bollocks dear boy!
Jez.

[winkwink]

Jet Pilots 4 KingAir Pilot 0

[winkwink]

In my own experience, I've been issued with an SIC on a Falcon 200, and Lears 31 and 60 following the required training by ATPs who held the rating and neither of whom were CFIs. The types were then added to my ATP certificate by FSDOs in the USA. Unless things have changed and we haven't been informed (and the FAA rarely makes an unnecessary change, unlike the fannies who run Eurpoean aviation) then that system still prevails.

[NorskAir]

If you can document training on the F2TH and 3 takeoff and landings in the aircraft signed by the PIC, all you need to do is go to a FAA FSDO and they will issue you an SIC F2TH Type Rating. The SIC type rating is widely misunderstood as there is no checkride, it is more of a paperwork exercise....

[Pilotkid]

Hello Guys,

Wonder if any of you can give me some clarity on a matter I have.

I’m trying to get an FAA CL604 SIC type done. Regarding the takeoffs and landings that’s needed before an endorsement can be given, are these takeoff and landings done in the actual plane? Also, does anyone know how long the course normally takes, TRTO that offers it (Apart from CAE) and possible cost.

Cheers

[Marc Aymerich]

I have an ATP and typed. I would like to sign off my copilot for his SIC 61.55 type. Where exactly do I sign and fill out the 8710 for him. It just isn’t clear exactly what I have to fill out on his 8710