Les Munro the last Dambuster to sell his medals

[NutLoose]

to help fund the upkeep of the Bomber Command memorial


Dambusters pilot is selling his medals to pay for the Bomber Command memorial | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2975539/Last-surviving-Dambusters-pilot-selling-medals-given-famous-raid-raise-money-help-pay-Bomber-Command-memorial-sense-comradeship.html)

:D:D:D

Though it is sad that public funds cannot be used to maintain its upkeep, it is the least we owe them.

[Tankertrashnav]

London is absolutely stuffed full of memorials and statues. Surely most of them must be maintained at public expense - why not this one? Do the navy have to have a whip round every time they have to clean the bird crap off Nelson's hat?

[thing]

I tip my hat to Les Munro but think it a disgrace that this memorial is not kept at public expense. While I would be willing to put hand in pocket for some kind of fund I don't think it should be necessary nor should Sqn Ldr Munro have to sell his medals.

You would have thought that the Fail would have got the abbreviation Sqn Ldr correct. Or on second thoughts hardly surprising that they didn't.

[A and C]

One more time a member of the WW2 generation shows a truly remarkable amount of integrity while the political establishment plays point scoring games that can only be understood by those in the Westminster bubble.

It is high time that the political establishment awakened to the reality that the public are not the least bit impressed by their behaviour towards the personel of Bomber Command during WW2.

A pop singer from the sevenths and a man in is nineties have by their actions and understanding of what Bomber command crews had to do in the fight against the nazi evil bring shame on the whole of the Westminster establishment who are too wrapped up in their own self importance to understand that the whole of the UK gives not two hoots about the lot of them but has utmost respect for those who gave so much in WW2.

Les you were a hero in 1943 and you have one more time proved yourself to be a hero, those in the UK Govenment who can't even find the money to maintain the Bomber Command memorial will be forgotten tomorrow while the courage of the likes of Les Munro and the rest of the WW2 generation who defeated the most evil empire in history will be remembered for ever.

[PPRuNe Pop]

One of the MOST unselfish deeds you will ever read on these pages! Be much better. if he doesn't mind the suggestion, that Lord Ashcroft buy them on loan from Les Monro to be kept in Les's family. After all, they will return 'home' one day.

[Brian W May]

What a great idea, how do we contact Lord Ashcroft?

Integrity . . . yes, that's what the word is.

The Edit:

For good or ill, I've emailed Lord Ashcroft, perhaps several mails may help, I truly don't know. I'll let you know if/when I receive a reply.

[Octane]

Nutloose, you beat me to it. Should of checked before I posted.

I too thought it sad that Les believes there's a need to take the action he is. His medals would make a grand display alongside the restored Lancaster at MOTAT (Museum of Transport and Technology) in Auckland..

Mod, please delete my thread, ta.

[fergineer]

I will let Les know about what is being said here as he pops into the Tauranga museum very now and then. One of a kind that is for sure.

[barnstormer1968]

Thing

Sqn Ldr may have been incorrectly typed but look on the bright side, the author slipped in that the cash will be for the UPKEEP of the memorial :)

[Tankertrashnav]

I missed that - well spotted!

[thing]

the author slipped in that the cash will be for the UPKEEP of the memorial

Good spot! I'm sure the journo would have been completely oblivious of course.

[Herod]

Perhaps the journo should be chastised?

[NutLoose]

With jokes like that you should be bounced out of here.
Eder way, I'm damned if I'm going to Mohne about it! but beware, someone else might Sorpe you out.

[Brian W May]

GUYS, Guys, guys - enough already. We surrender :D

[bakseetblatherer]

Royal Air Force Benevolent Fund - Leave a message for Les Munro (http://www.rafbf.org/5724/leave-a-message-for-les-munro.html)

Leave a message to Les via the link if you wish :ok:

[Whenurhappy]

However, there's this minor snag. The NZ Government is objecting to these 'cultural items' leaving NZ.

Dambuster's medals auction hits a snag - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11411159)

Perhaps Les had hoped to go under the radar and avoid the flak? Dam(n)!

[TBM-Legend]

How about a genius on here organise a "crowd funding" activity to either buy the medals or pay for a year's expenses. I guess poor Les is still Government Property according to the NZ Govt goons..:sad:

[Whenurhappy]

The NZ Herald stated:


'said its (Department of Culture and Heritage) approval for export under the Protected Objects Act will be needed if the medals are sold to a non-New Zealand buyer'

In other words, these medals are not Les's to dispose of as he wishes. A tricky one - we're typically not happy when, for example, a painting, an historic airframe or a collection of medals goes overseas. However I this that it is a restraint of commercial practise.


The maintenance of memorials around London poses a huge problem for the local authorities - and in this case, Westminster Borough Council, if I recall correctly. Before planning approval was given for this memorial (I was in MB at the time) I am sure that the Council sought assurance that there would be maintenance funds available for the foreseeable future. This is a 'private' memorial (cf the Cenotaph) and therefore 'private' ie, non-public funds, are required to maintain it. Sadly.

[NutLoose]

However, there's this minor snag. The NZ Government is objecting to these 'cultural items' leaving NZ.


And that also opens up another bag of worms, Say Les attends the anniversary of something or other in the UK and he attempts to bring his medals out of country to wear at the event, can the NZ authorities prevent him from doing so on the grounds he may not bring them back?

You could argue that the NZ awards aside, the UK awarded medals are cultural to the RAF in which he was serving and the Country in which they were awarded by and on behalf of a grateful Nation.

End of the day the Medals were awarded to Les and as such they are his and the decision on how to dispose of them is his alone, fair do's if NZ decides to bid on them and match every other bid plus £1, but if not I cannot see why it is anything to do with them.
As the law appears to have come out in 2005 he imported them in good faith prioe ro this date one assumes, they now appear to have changed the law to people like Les then exporting them

[charliegolf]

.... like the others we read about who DON'T think they are heroes. Someone should put him straight- HE IS!:ok:

CG

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

If I had the money, I would pay Les what he is asking for donation to the Memorial, then give him his medals back. I don't see how anyone else who respects Les, the medals, and what they stand for could in all conscience do anything else. And that includes the NZ and/or UK Governments.

[Tankertrashnav]

As most of you know I'm a bit of a medal nut, and when I spent 4 months in Russia in 1993 I picked up a nice little collection of Soviet medals to bring home. My Russian hosts were very dubious and said I would have problems getting them out, and they were right - my luggage was searched at Sheremetyovo, and I was lucky they werent confiscated, instead they were handed over to my hosts, who were warned not to try and get them out of the country, on pain of prosecution.

That was just what I would have expected of the Russian authorities, but I am saddened that the New Zealand government are taking this line. I hope Sqn Ldr Munro gets himself good legal advice - I strongly expect they are just trying it on. Shame on them for treating one of their war heroes in this way!

Come on Fox - I'm sure a well paid Canadian teacher could stump up £50K easily - we'll all back you up (morally that is ;))

[Flying Lawyer]

thingWhile I would be willing to put hand in pocket for some kind of fund ...

Preserving the Bomber Command Memorial for future generations (http://www.rafbf.org/1800/other-ways-to-give.html)




charliegolffantacist?
And you a teacher from Richard Burtonville, indeed to goodness. (As the Welsh don't say). ;)

[charliegolf]

Sorry FL, I meant phantasist!

CG

And it's also Ivor Emmanuelville too mind, isn't it!

[Brian W May]

Hi guys, I told you earlier that I had emailed Lord Ashcroft and asked him to buy the medals.

This is the (most reasonable) response. I would publicly like to thank both Lord Ashcroft and Michael Naxton - Curator of the Ashcroft Medal Collection for their gracious response. It's also likely they are party to more information than I could glean.

Dear Mr May,

Thank you for your e-mail to Lord Ashcroft's website to which he has asked me to reply.

All of us connected with the Ashcroft Medal Collection rather think that Les Munro is making an absolutely magnificent gesture by selling his medals in order to donate the proceeds to the future upkeep of the Bomber Command Memorial here in London. However, he is most assuredly not being pressurised into this course of action, nor is he selling his medals due to any personal financial hardship - far from it. We therefore feel that he should be allowed to do exactly what he has stated to be his intention.

Yours sincerely,

Michael Naxton
Curator, Ashcroft Medal Collection.

I propose to let this lie, I feel satisfied that it is Les Munro's wish (and don't doubt he well knows his own mind).

[Innominate]

If I understand the press article correctly, the NZ government isn't preventing Les Munro selling the medals, but it may refuse them an export licence. That seems to me indicative of an understandable desire to keep the medals in the country - would we want to see important medals awarded to Britons being exported to another country?

I don't know how the NZ licensing process works, but I suspect that it differentiates between Les bringing them to the UK temporarily for a function and a purchaser exporting them permanently.

[Dengue_Dude]

NB Dengue_Dude is my old name on this browser, I'm Brian W May

I've been further informed by Mr Michael Naxton, Curator of Lord Ashford's medal collection that Lord Ashford actually donated over a million pounds to complete the Bomber Command Memorial when other funding had stalled.

Well sir, you have my thanks for helping so intimately to Right a longstanding Wrong.

I suspect any NZG input would be minimal or nothing, which would be heartening.

To Sqn Ldr Munro - a magnificent gesture, it also highlights the maintenance issue too.

A good result.

[Al R]

I hope Les didn't act a little hastily - research suggests he might have been onto a winner.

Al Rush | Medals are sexy. No, really (http://www.alrush.biz/medals-are-sexy-no-really/)

In keeping with the tone of the thread, Les knew exactly what he was doing. Medals are finery but I sometimes wished we cared for our veterans just as meaningfully when the news wasn't worthy of the front page.

Michael's response I agree, allows a dignified and suitable closure and well done to Lord Ashcroft. Finally, denying an export licence would set a precedent that wouldn't be in keeping with what setting precedents should be reserved for!

[Octane]

Lord Ashcroft has offered to give 75,000 pounds to the RAF benevolent Fund on the condition Sqd Ldr Les Munro's medals are displayed at the MOTAT (Museum of Transport and Technology) in Auckland, home of New Zealand's only Lancaster bomber. What a grand gesture. Well done and thank you Sir.

Yours sincerely

Octane

[Herod]

I just thought that this thread should come to the top again, so more people can read Octane's post. Well done to Lord Ashcroft. Pity there aren't more like him.

[Brian W May]

Magnificent gesture, thank you Lord A.