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View Full Version : Important change to the driving licence. Ummm . . .


Loose rivets
1st Mar 2015, 20:32
It came with my renewed licence.


Customers with existing counterparts: After 8th June 15 it will no longer have any legal status. You should (their bold) destroy your counterpart after this date.

Fine. Very sensible. But the next paragraph.

Paper driving licences issued before the photocard was introduced in 1998 will remain valid and should not be destroyed.


Now, it probably means my counterpart is not a paper driving licence, but despite all their good intentions enclosing this slip, I don't f:mad:ing know for sure.

I suppose it's me. Old age and all that, but am I the only one that doesn't know if a paper driving licence is a quite separate item? If this all pertains to a totally separate legal document WTF is this instruction doing in my envelope with my plastic licence?



I know, they did it especially to confuse me.

west lakes
1st Mar 2015, 20:40
If you have a new plastic photocard (one with your photo on it) licence that is all you need

Earlier photocards came with a paper version as well that one can be destroyed

If you have not got or never had a photocard licence than the paper one is the one to keep

M.Mouse
1st Mar 2015, 20:45
I think you are getting two separate things muddled.

When the photocard driving licence was issued in true British bureaucratic style it was accompanied by a separate paper sheet where endorsements could be recorded.

Prior to the introduction of the photocard licence we just had the single sheet of green folded paper which, incidentally, often caused much amusement and incredulity if ever asked to produce it by a police officer outside the UK!

Now that computer records are used almost exclusively by the UK police there is no requirement for the separate sheet which accompanies the photocard driving licence hence it is being abandonded from 8th June this year.

However, if you are still a luddite and only have the old paper licence then it remains valid and, obviously, must not be destroyed.

vulcanised
1st Mar 2015, 20:46
Paper driving licences issued before the photocard was introduced in 1998 will remain valid and should not be destroyed.


Yet they insisted I tore up my paper licence and sent them the bits only last month. :confused:

G-CPTN
1st Mar 2015, 20:48
I surrendered my paper licence for a plastic card when I reached 70 years.

As a consequence I lost my 'heavy goods' and minibus entitlement - to maintain it would have involved regular professional medical examinations.

As I no longer regularly drive heavies it wasn't worth the hassle.

ORAC
1st Mar 2015, 20:59
The early paper licences have no expiry date; the later ones do. Whether you agree or not, this is a method of ensuring elderly drivers need to retaliate their driving expertise....

ian16th
1st Mar 2015, 21:32
The early paper licences have no expiry date; Your 70th birthday.

the driving licence was a tiny booklet about two inches by three,Like these?
http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz108/ian16th/IMG_20150301_0004.jpghttp://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz108/ian16th/IMG_20150301_0005.jpg

mixture
1st Mar 2015, 21:46
If you have a new plastic photocard (one with your photo on it) licence that is all you need

Bolleaux.

Driving license counterparts that go with the plastic photocard are still perfectly valid at the present time.

You try walking up to a rental desk in the UK (especially in the grim North) and trying to get away with renting on the basis of your plastic photocard. It aint gonna happen, e.g. I'm reasonably reliably informed none of the rental desks at NCL will rent to you if all you have is plastic.

It may well be changing, but for the moment, expect jobsworths to be operating as normal.

radar101
1st Mar 2015, 21:58
mixture, OP quoted:

Customers with existing counterparts: After 8th June 15 it will no longer have any legal status. You should (their bold) destroy your counterpart after this date.

Harley Quinn
1st Mar 2015, 22:08
Thank god for that, one less thing to dry out after accidentally washing the wallet

mixture
1st Mar 2015, 22:19
mixture, OP quoted:

Yes, thank you, I can read ... which is why west lake's statement of "all you need" is (still) a little premature.

Gertrude the Wombat
1st Mar 2015, 22:20
However, if you are still a luddite and only have the old paper licence ...
It's nothing to do with being a luddite, there's simply no reason to have paid loads of money (and repeat this every few years) for the photo licence if you haven't moved house recently.

This has however lead to an "interesting" discussion with a foreign bank, which required to see two pieces of government issued photo ID before giving us any money. They did eventually believe me that my government had only ever issued me with one.

ChrisVJ
1st Mar 2015, 22:32
I had one of those licenses that lasted forever, or almost. When I came to Canada the license I got lasted for fifteen or twenty years, expired at a certain age. Hover later they issued "New" licenses that were the plastic thingies in the interest of 'modernisation.'

Then they did the same thing to my Pilot's license. Both new plastc thingies had to be renewed, at a cost of course, every five years together ith filling out copious form telling them what they already knew, (since they had the information on the old form!)

According to the government this was because of some international agreement in which any form of ID had to be renewed every five years for 'security' purposes.

If I was ChrisVJ five years ago I am inevitably ChrisVJ now so I am not quite sure how 'security' is served.

Loose rivets
1st Mar 2015, 22:34
So those with only a paper driving licence* possess a form which is significantly different to the "Counterpart" document. Erm, that was a question.


* I didn't know you cold still survive with only that.


I had a few of the little red books. Glad that's gone, it had my teenage norty record in it. Come to think of it, they may be with my logbooks . . . somewhere.

cockney steve
1st Mar 2015, 22:51
Last time I got a "pull" they decided to give me a "producer".....After a frantic search in my chaotic house, I found the licence east seen about 1980, together with it's predecessor and the predecessor to that!

Having finished work around midnight, I presented myself at the local Nick...lo and behold, the officer opening the hatch, was the one who'd stopped me a couple of days earlier . He was somewhat intrigued by the Buff one (as per Ian 16 th's picture) which showed my first Provisional in 1963....Then the dark red one which verified my move here in 1975...(he was still in nappies) Finally, the green paper one unsullied by endorsement since 1977.Honour was satisfied and Mr Plod learned a bit of history behind his chosen profession.....he took the documents "backstage" to the brew-room....none of his colleagues were aware of the existence of the booklets, either!
"EXCESSIVE SPEED IN A BUILT-UP AREA" 10 fine (Feb. 1966)
3 endorsements like that and it was time-out....I was earning about 8 a week in those days.

spekesoftly
1st Mar 2015, 22:53
However, if you are still a luddite and only have the old paper licence ..............

Why luddite? I chose to keep my old paper licence because a) the new two-part licence was less convenient, and b) it involved a fee that bought me no advantage. I've also avoided the 10 year photocard renewal fees.

P6 Driver
2nd Mar 2015, 00:30
Don't quote me on it but I believe the old style paper licences will be finally withdrawn in 2022, when a plastic photocard conversion will be mandatory.

Here's a link to the official information;

www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-licence-changes

spekesoftly
2nd Mar 2015, 01:05
.... I believe the old style paper licences will be finally withdrawn in 2022 .......Not according to this link:-

https://insidedvla.blog.gov.uk/2015/01/08/no-more-counterpart-date-confirmed-for-abolition/

It would require a change in law to recall all old-style licences and there are no plans to do so at this time.

ExSp33db1rd
2nd Mar 2015, 08:43
(Feb. 1966)
3 endorsements like that and it was time-out....I was earning about 8 a week in those days.

1951 - I was earning one quid a week, fined 5 bob for exceeding 30pmh. i.e.all of 40 mph, which was about Vne for my dad's old Morris 8. Went through all the hassle of appearing in a Magistrates Court, too.

( Vne - Never Exceed Speed for aeroplanes, i.e. maximum allowable speed.)
Sorry about the aviation content.

Lord Spandex Masher
2nd Mar 2015, 08:50
You try walking up to a rental desk in the UK (especially in the grim North) and trying to get away with renting on the basis of your plastic photocard. It aint gonna happen, e.g. I'm reasonably reliably informed none of the rental desks at NCL will rent to you if all you have is plastic.

Not true, I generally pick up a hire car every other week from NCL and I haven't seen my paper counterpart for years.

Dr Jekyll
2nd Mar 2015, 09:12
The early paper licences have no expiry date; the later ones do. Whether you agree or not, this is a method of ensuring elderly drivers need to retaliate their driving expertise....

Am I the only one who doesn't understand this?

ORAC
2nd Mar 2015, 09:15
Auto spelling on laptop. Couldn't be arsed to change it as expected readers to be able to work it out - obviously not in your case.....

flydive1
2nd Mar 2015, 10:32
Then they did the same thing to my Pilot's license. Both new plastc thingies had to be renewed, at a cost of course, every five years together ith filling out copious form telling them what they already knew, (since they had the information on the old form!)

Did Canada ever had plastic pilot's license? I thought they were folded paper till few years ago, when the booklet was introduced.

teeteringhead
2nd Mar 2015, 10:51
Really old people can remember when the driving licence was a tiny booklet Not really old Henry please - I can remember them 'til - oooh - mid 70s or thereabouts .......

Have just checked Wiki - 'twas booklets until '73, then the folding paper until '98, since when it's been plastic-and-paper.

Wiki also reminded me why Pa Teeters (RIP) used to boast he had never taken a test - they were only introduced in 1934 (when he was 25)

Fareastdriver
2nd Mar 2015, 10:55
I generally pick up a hire car every other week from NCL and I haven't seen my paper counterpart for year

Once you're in their computer they don't bother.

Tankertrashnav
2nd Mar 2015, 10:56
A couple of years ago I sent my plastic licence to my solicitors as they needed proof of identity for some legal reason or other. They promptly lost it, then denied ever having seen it. Am I ok with my counterpart only?

I suppose this will all be resolved when I'm 70, as I'll be getting a new one anyway.

PS - I've changed my solicitors!

ian16th
2nd Mar 2015, 11:25
Wiki also reminded me why Pa Teeters (RIP) used to boast he had never taken a test - they were only introduced in 1934 (when he was 25) In some EU countries it was much later than that.

I believe that Belgium only introduced a driving test in 1960 and Ireland was also rather late in the introduction of a Driving Test.

G-CPTN
2nd Mar 2015, 12:04
Licences for lorry drivers were introduced on 16 February 1934 under the Road Traffic Act, 1934 - the licensing authority could require the applicant to submit to a practical test of their ability.
Compulsory testing was brought in on 1 June 1935 for all drivers and riders who started driving on or after 1 April 1934. Those passing the motorcycling test did not need to take another test to drive a car.
Voluntary testing was introduced on 16 March 1935 by the Road Traffic Act, 1934, to avoid a rush of candidates when the test became compulsory.
In 1937, provisional licences were brought in for heavy goods vehicle (HGV) drivers.
Driving tests were suspended on 2 September 1939 for the duration of World War II.
HGV licences and tests were suspended on 1 January 1940 because of World War II.
Testing resumed on 1 November 1946 following the end of World War II the previous year.

603DX
2nd Mar 2015, 12:22
Being the same age as Loose rivets, I also received the same information slip from DVLA when I renewed my 3-year plastic and paper licences recently. So I know that the paper counterpart licence won't be needed after 8 June 2015. But I'm inclined to hang on to it for the moment, because on my frequent trips to Guernsey I always pick up a hire car at the airport, and the hire company desk staff up to now have only been interested in seeing the paper document, because only on that are any current driving endorsements or penalty points printed. As it happens, I don't have any, my licence is "clean", but they wouldn't release the car to me without proof of this being provided.

Now on my next visit after 8 June this year, DVLA's helpful little info slip tells me that I can check my own licence details "for free" online, at www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence (http://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence), but they don't mention whether car hire companies will be expected to do the same when checking their customer's licence details. Murphy's Law never having been repealed, I have no intention of turning up at the airport desk on arrival and being refused the booked car, just because I had discarded the paper licence as instructed. Cynical, moi ? ;)

Dr Jekyll
2nd Mar 2015, 12:55
Auto spelling on laptop. Couldn't be arsed to change it as expected readers to be able to work it out - obviously not in your case.....

Nope, still stuck. I am assuming 'retaliate' is the rogue word, but what was it supposed to be?

teeteringhead
2nd Mar 2015, 13:07
revalidate? lksdlfk;lf';l ;l;le;'lfe';e ;le;'lfefe

ian16th
2nd Mar 2015, 13:43
In 1937, provisional licences were brought in for heavy goods vehicle (HGV) drivers.
Driving tests were suspended on 2 September 1939 for the duration of World War II.
HGV licences and tests were suspended on 1 January 1940 because of World War II.
Testing resumed on 1 November 1946 following the end of World War II the previous year. A small addendum to the above.

Driving tests were also suspended during the 'Suez Crises' of 1956 and as a relief measure provisional licence holders of more than 6 month, could drive unaccompanied.
I remember as it was my 1st time on a public road, driving solo! But I had experience with an RAF Class 'C' licence on camp, so I wasn't too much of a threat to humanity.

spekesoftly
2nd Mar 2015, 16:26
Am I ok with my counterpart only?


Written at the top of your Counterpart (D740) it says - "The photocard and paper counterpart should be kept together. Both must be produced when required".

Obviously that only applies until the 8th June, when counterparts will be withdrawn. Thereafter it's photocards only, so you do need to replace it now, and not wait until you are 70.

pvmw
2nd Mar 2015, 18:16
Auto spelling on laptop. Couldn't be arsed to change it as expected readers to be able to work it out - obviously not in your case..... If you can't be arsed to make sure that you write something intelligible, then you can hardly be surprised if we can't be arsed to read it.

Loose rivets
3rd Mar 2015, 01:22
I enjoyed it so much I read it three times.


tanker, why not do a free address change to a relative or friend's house and then quickly back to your house. It's free, and the one missing licence that vaporizes at point of cutting/returning, could be blamed on your solicitor if they can be arsed (to use the vernacular) to hanker for both of the destroyed pair.

I finally gave up on the web form and phoned the nice lady at Swansea. The site form would not take the 11 digits from the green bit (which also has to be cut and returned) but the lady took about 45 seconds before she said, There, it's on its way. In my hand in about 36 hours.


My mom mounted the pillion of my Matchless 350 while I was displaying L plates and we were chased by a puffing and puce PC down Walton on the Naze High Street. The look of disappointment was priceless when he learned my mom had obtained a licence prior to tests starting.

I was one of those that jumped into the captains seat the second I heard about the Suez waiver. I took the 19 mile trip to Colchester Tech masses of times, and even took fellow students with me. At no time did I confirm the legality of it. Nice bit of pre-test practice. Mind you, the A35 that I took my test in didn't have the accelerator in the middle.


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Down with Editing thingies. :(

oldpax
3rd Mar 2015, 07:17
When the plastic licence was issued would it not have been a good idea to have ones blood group printed on it?

Wingswinger
3rd Mar 2015, 08:27
My father never took a civil driving test. He learned to drive in the RAF in WW2 and was just granted a licence. Drove for the rest of his life and never had even a minor shunt.

ian16th
5th Mar 2015, 08:27
More complications if you still have the paper licence.

'I was denied a hire car because I have a paper licence' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-advice/11450196/I-was-denied-a-hire-car-because-I-have-a-paper-licence.html)

vctenderness
5th Mar 2015, 09:41
Photo card driving licences have an expiry date and I have just renewed mine.

It still comes with a paper counterpart and you have to cut up and return the old card and paper one.

I am reminded of being stopped by the Highway Patrol in some remote part of California early 1970's.

He asked for my drivers licence and I handed over my little red book. He looked at it looked at me and said 'who are you Chairman Mao?'

I think he decided this would be too complicated to issue a ticket so sent me on my way!:ok:

Smeagol
5th Mar 2015, 10:25
I am old enough and not changed my UK residential address in the last 20 odd years so I still have the old paper license and no photocard.

Never had a problem hiring cars overseas, but must admit don't do it too often these days. I do always carry a couple of photocard licenses from other country's as 'back-up'. (They are both expired but are useful as a means of 'photo ID' for other purposes - and anyway no one seems to look at the dates!)

Once hired a car in Norway with a German/American colleague, he produced a Libyan license and I used a South African one - no problem!
But that was a long time ago!