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View Full Version : There's No Stopping It.


Fareastdriver
26th Feb 2015, 10:48
BBC News - UK net migration rises to 298,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31638174)

This country just cannot cope. I have nothing against people travelling to another county to get a better job, or to improve their lives. I have done it myself and so have millions of Europeans before us but the medical and social services in this country are being overwhelmed.

The countries that the Non Europeans come from do not have the same problem. They will not allow non nationals to just walk in. No proper visa and you are on the next transport out. No immigration panels, no state funded lawyers, there's the door; goodbye.

Why do we have a system where so-called asylum seekers, who are ENTITLED to protection when they 'escape' from their so called terror are then allowed to pick and choose the country that they want asylum in, often asssisted by a initial host country that doesn't want them.

It stared in the Wilson era. London Transport even had a recruiting office in the West Indies and they were coming in by the boatload. Enoch Powell was one who warned about the possible chaos but he was ignored. Some cynics described the operation as a 'black face is a Labour vote'. Since we joined the EU it has got worse with encampments at Calais where illegal immigrants are cherry picking which country's HR lawyers they are going to use.

It is about time this country started studying the immigration requirements of the majority of countries of the World and tailoring ours to suit.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
26th Feb 2015, 11:21
They do love the net migration figure. Bad though it may appear, it hides who is leaving. 48% of emigrants are professionals/managers now.

Here's the Full Monty:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116025/horr68-report.pdf

Leaving shortages of engineers, managers, doctors, scientists....and the teachers of those subjects, so the next generation is screwed too.

Tier 2 Visas | National Shortage Occupation List | UK Immigration (http://www.workpermit.com/uk/tier-2-visa-national-shortage-occupation-list.htm)

John Marsh
26th Feb 2015, 11:24
Fareastdriver:
It is about time this country started studying the immigration requirements of the majority of countries of the World and tailoring ours to suit.It's also about time that those in power in this country showed more interest in the requirements of immigrants.

Post-war, we began with a cavalier attitude along the lines of "oh well, we need the manpower, and it's too cold for them to want to stay too long". Cue immigrants from warmer climes arriving in their Summer clothes, because the enticing literature sent to their homelands omitted to mention our rain, sleet and snow.

Not to forget: racist private landlords. Discrimination in pay. An ill-educated population.

I draw the above from accounts from first-generation immigrants from the West Indies. Have we really advanced all that much, in terms of preparedness; of showing we actually give a damn? In practical matters of policy and timely implementation thereof? Ensuring that our medical and social services, to quote your example, can cope?

UniFoxOs
26th Feb 2015, 11:45
Ensuring that our medical and social services, to quote your example, can cope?

For all the people in the world whose governments have made no provision for their healthcare?

John Marsh
27th Feb 2015, 09:25
UniFoxOs:
Ensuring that our medical and social services, to quote your example, can cope? For all the people in the world whose governments have made no provision for their healthcare?No. Only for the people we allow in.

I suggest getting a grip on immigration and playing fair with both immigrants and the home population.

Allowing uncontrolled, unmonitored and unplanned immigration serves neither group.

radeng
27th Feb 2015, 09:42
Many of the first generation West Indian immigrants came to do the dirty low paid jobs whites wouldn't do, such as railway engine cleaning.......Not all of them stayed, either.

In the 1960s, I worked with a guy from Barbados. He came from a very poor family, left school at 14 to herd goats. Got an interest in radio, learnt what he could from the library and came to the UK. Got a job in a radio/TV shop learning servicing, then got a job in testing at Marconi. Marconi's perceived some possibilities and sent him on a first year ONC evening course, and after success in his exams, paid for the exam fees, course fees and text books and gave him day release to carry on, paying for books and fees on the same basis. When he finally got to membership of the IERE (effectively a CEng in those days) at age 29 or so, he told them he would stay for three years to pay them back: at the end of that time, he went back to Barbados to be an electrical and electronics teacher....

Fox3WheresMyBanana
27th Feb 2015, 12:46
Now, the Barbadian's attitude is key to this, I think. He was prepared to pay back in expertise what the company had put into his training, despite no legal obligation to do so. I have been in the same situation three times, and in return for taking a chance on me, and then receiving better offers, I stayed until the employer felt they'd had their money's worth. Indeed, all 3 employers have subsequently offered me my old job back (the RAF is one).

Equally, where employers have tried to screw me over, I have deliberately left at the most inconvenient time for them. As a consequence (at least partly), I have subsequently discovered that in every case the senior manager who tried to screw me over ended up getting sacked.

Karma!

skydiver69
27th Feb 2015, 13:07
They do love the net migration figure. Bad though it may appear, it hides who is leaving. 48% of emigrants are professionals/managers now.

One of the sound bites I heard this morning referred to the numbers of low skilled people coming to the country which I assume implies that they will be doing menial jobs here, adding very little to the economy whilst being entitled to tax credits etc and the benefits of the a free health service for example. I can't see how the net benefit to the country can be worth the pressure on housing, education, NHS, police, roads etc which haven't kept pace with the demands of a ) a growing population and b ) the extra demands of low skilled and sometimes poorly educated people with very little English language skills.

SpringHeeledJack
27th Feb 2015, 13:20
I can't see how the net benefit to the country can be worth the pressure on housing, education, NHS, police, roads etc which haven't kept pace with the demands of a ) a growing population and b ) the extra demands of low skilled and sometimes poorly educated people with very little English language skills.



Apparently it's called social engineeringÖ. :rolleyes:


SHJ

Fox3WheresMyBanana
27th Feb 2015, 13:30
There are a number of studies showing that immigrants, at least semi-permanent immigrants, are of net benefit to the UK economy, e.g. Positive economic impact of UK immigration from the European Union: new evidence (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration)

However other studies do point out that there are large gaps in the scope of the more positive studies, e.g.
The Fiscal Impact of Immigration in the UK | The Migration Observatory (http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk)

The existing estimates of the fiscal impact of immigration in the UK are limited because of a lack of data and accurate information about a wide range of important factors. For this and other reasons, a significant number of assumptions must be made in order to estimate the fiscal effects of immigration, and results tend to change based on these assumptions.


Even if the positive studies were to be accepted, they fail to discuss the consequent emigration of UK citizens. This is mainly because nobody in authority wants to face the fact that people are emigrating because of the immigration policy, especially when the usefulness of those emigrating is considered.
The usual reason given is that managers / professionals emigrate for employment, but how many of those were headhunted by foreign firms or overseas branches of UK firms? Almost none. The question should be, why did they start looking for overseas employment?

A back-of-the envelope calculation I did a while back shows that the pension transfers alone of UK emigrants probably more than counterbalances the net benefit of all the immigrants. This is why the Government has been quietly stopping it, e.g.

Expat Teachers Rush to Transfer UK Pensions before April Deadline - QROPS Review (http://qropsreview.com/teachers-pension-deadline/)

In short, the UK has been swapping senior managers and science teachers for cheap waitresses, warehouse workers and plumbers.

Furthermore, this chart is very revealing. The entire increase in emigration since 1998 is basically people leaving for good (in every sense). 100,000 a year more.

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/data-and-resources/charts/create/migration-to-and-from-uk/outflows/length-of-stay

Mr Chips
27th Feb 2015, 13:35
Once more low paid, so called menial jobs are filled by immigrants rather then the indigeounous population. Any thoughts on why?

Ill educated with poor English language skills? Yes, I've met plenty of English people who can be described in that way.

SpringHeeledJack
27th Feb 2015, 13:59
Once more low paid, so called menial jobs are filled by immigrants rather then the indigeounous population. Any thoughts on why?

Ill educated with poor English language skills? Yes, I've met plenty of English people who can be described in that way.

The indigenous youth/young all have aspirations of being a footballer/famous for.../singer/DJ/whatever, having had these preferred options held out in front of them by a compliant media on a daily basis. Engineer ? Boring!


SHJ

Fox3WheresMyBanana
27th Feb 2015, 14:04
Footballers at least have to have some talent, but it's a positive disadvantage in the others, as they are then dependent on their agents and the media.

25QrnxD-NB4

I want to be rich and I want lots of money
I don't care about clever I don't care about funny
I want loads of clothes and f#ckloads of diamonds
I heard people die while they are trying to find them

.....And I am a weapon of massive consumption
And it's not my fault it's how I'm programmed to function

skydiver69
27th Feb 2015, 14:34
Once more low paid, so called menial jobs are filled by immigrants rather then the indigeounous population. Any thoughts on why?

Ill educated with poor English language skills? Yes, I've met plenty of English people who can be described in that way.

A small % of these jobs have probably been created in order to serve the needs of other immigrants. I presume that some industries or individual firms must have a choice between investing in automation or taking on staff and with sources of investment being tough to come by in recent years they have chosen to use people instead of machines to meet the needs of their businesses. I've also met plenty indigenous people which no sane employer would touch with a very long barge pole. The reasons range from being poorly educated, to being untrustworthy (criminal or unreliable), unintelligible, liars, greedy, lack of initiative, or having a poor work ethic.

Mr Chips
27th Feb 2015, 16:22
A small % of these jobs have probably been created in order to serve the needs of other immigrants.
Waiters? Cleaners? Labourers?
Honest, hard work that English people don't seem to generally fancy doing...

MG23
27th Feb 2015, 18:28
Waiters? Cleaners? Labourers?
Honest, hard work that English people don't seem to generally fancy doing...

Yeah, right. I get a first-class honours degree in Tarantino Studies, and you think I'm going to work as a waiter... I think I'll stay at home in my parents' house, collect the dole and play computer games, thanks. Their house will be worth a million by the time they pop off, so I can sell it and retire to Thailand.

ZOOKER
27th Feb 2015, 19:30
Surely, coming to The U.K. should be like applying to a university.
If there is a course available to suit you, and you can pass the entrance exam.....You're in.

P.S. Lily Allen.........Says it all.

oldpax
28th Feb 2015, 00:43
If the above happened and all the Expats decided to return then would the UK government help them find accommodation etc?Most of us sold up and left before the housing boom in the 90s so really I don't have enough money to return and buy a house!!Also being an expat I don't use the NHS or have a bus pass or get a heating allowance etc so I am doing "call me Dave"a favour so would he help me on returning?

cattletruck
28th Feb 2015, 12:36
And the sh!t managers who now run the place who couldn't even run a p!ss-up in a brewery now think they can get back their profits by comparing your skills to that of a 3rd world immigrant. Go figure, its who the constituents you voted for happily drop their strides and bend over to.

John Marsh
28th Feb 2015, 12:46
How much truth is there to the popular claim that immigrant workers are happy with less pay than indigenous UK stock and will share accommodation with their compatriots in order to live cheaply?

I have done similar, as a guest worker in the Middle East. Accommodation was basic but adequate; pay varied from OK to a pittance (but with mediocre food included).

I was happy to be a guest worker, but I neither expected or demanded anything more.

Fareastdriver
28th Feb 2015, 12:51
The UK unemployment is now 1.86 million. The population of the UK has grown by more than that in the last ten years. Logically, if they had not come to the UK there would be little or no unemployment. Because there would be a labour shortage even the most basic jobs would be able to command a reasonable regular wage instead of the minimum and zero hours arrangements of the present. This would lead to a situation where it would be far more desirable to come off benefits..

Random inputs would mean that that sort of utopia would not be possible but it could certainly improve the situation.

Krystal n chips
28th Feb 2015, 17:53
It stared in the Wilson era. London Transport even had a recruiting office in the West Indies and they were coming in by the boatload. Enoch Powell was one who warned about the possible chaos but he was ignored. Some cynics described the operation as a 'black face is a Labour vote'

And the UK is all the more diverse as a result, a fact the more enlightened of us on here appreciate. Not so yourself it seems.

You do though, appear either naÔve or unaware as to how the job market works and how the figures you quote 1.8m, albeit you did give a fleeting mention to zero hours contracts, ignores the fact many are now in part time or self-employed jobs.

Your thoughts are eerily reminiscent of the perceptions and utterances by UKIP regarding the ever popular "immigrants steal Brits jobs !" headlines in certain rags.

True, all Gov'ts massage the figures as no politician, other than unlamented deceased that is, wants to be associated with unemployment near to an election.

rgbrock1
19th Mar 2015, 12:52
And the UK is all the more diverse as a result, a fact the more enlightened of us on here appreciate

K&C, I aspire to become as enlightened as you are. It's one of my goals in life. I don't know if such a lofty goal is obtainable but I will strive to do so. I wanna be just like you. :ok::D

MagnusP
19th Mar 2015, 13:09
Shame on you rgb, you must have known that the young girls of Rochdale were delighted by the diversity of sexual partners they were forced to accommodate, something our more enlightened posters would appear to applaud.

rgbrock1
19th Mar 2015, 13:48
Yes, shame on m MagnusP. As a form of penance I shall retire to my room and stay there for the rest of the day. (With a six-pack of Spaten in hand, of course. No true penance is called for without a brew or two, no?)

MagnusP
19th Mar 2015, 13:50
Treat yourself to a mixed case, rgb; after all, we're celebrating diversity.

rgbrock1
19th Mar 2015, 13:59
A mixed case? Hm. There's a form of innuendo in there somewhere, me thinks, Mr. Magnus. :}

MagnusP
19th Mar 2015, 16:42
Ah, not having served in the forces or the merchant, I had only intended to suggest a selection of beers. Honest!

Andy_S
19th Mar 2015, 17:34
And the UK is all the more diverse as a result, a fact the more enlightened of us on here appreciate. Not so yourself it seems.

Itís not immigration in itself that I, and many others have a problem with. Itís the scale and uncontrolled nature of immigration and the fact that if someone has entered or remained in the country illegally itís incredibly difficult to get rid of them.

Oh, and itís also the fact that if we dare to speak out, weíre condemned as being bigots.

Iím not unenlightened, but I also look at things practically. This is already a crowded country blighted by urban sprawl and with a creaking infrastructure and services and weíre adding several hundred thousand immigrants to the population every year. I agree that immigration has, in many ways, been beneficial to the UK, but that doesnít mean that unlimited immigration is definitively a good thing. In fact it introduces as many problems as benefits.

We simply canít accommodate everyone whose life, wherever it may be, is worse than it would be in this country.

SpringHeeledJack
19th Mar 2015, 21:23
I agree that immigration has, in many ways, been beneficial to the UK, but that doesnít mean that unlimited immigration is definitively a good thing. In fact it introduces as many problems as benefits.

Amen to that. The last week has provided several experiences for me that would swing me towards the major control mindset.

Here's some thoughts to stir up debate :E

Farage backs five-year state school ban on UK immigrants (http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/generalelection2015/farage-backs-five-year-state-school-ban-on-uk-immigrants/ar-AA9O4Qu)


SHJ

ExSp33db1rd
19th Mar 2015, 21:39
Enoch was right, but then I was frequently a crew member of a chartered aircraft from Jamaica to London, and I recall one cabin crew member getting on the P.A. and teaching the whole passenger cabin to chant " Any more fares please" and "Mind dem doors", telling them that the only jobs available were on London Transport or London Underground.

Funny - at the time.

G-CPTN
19th Mar 2015, 21:50
If I got a work permit in America for two years and I went with my family, I would have to pay for education and health.
Is this true?

When we moved to Denmark in the 1980s, our children were admitted into school, even though they were actually too young to start in Denmark.

As they had already started school in the UK (and could already read - that impressed the head teacher - a five year-old English child that could read Danish - long words, too) they were allowed into classes.

Throughout our three years there, our children were chosen to lead group activities (being the only ones in their class that could read).

I was also treated in hospital when I broke my collarbone (went over the handlebars of my bike).

Kitbag
19th Mar 2015, 22:32
If I got a work permit in America for two years and I went with my family, I would have to pay for education and health.

Is this true?

When we moved to Denmark in the 1980s...

There has been an ongoing reciprocal agreement between all EU member states. Last time I checked this didn't include the USA.

G-CPTN
25th Apr 2016, 20:58
Migrant Smuggling Suspect Applies For UK Asylum (http://www.lbc.co.uk/migrant-smuggling-suspect-applies-for-uk-asylum-129350).

UniFoxOs
26th Apr 2016, 07:33
"Mind dem doors"

Maybe they didn't learn it that well, one of my abiding memories of extensive use of London Underground in the 60's was the chant "Mind DE doors".

Random SLF
26th Apr 2016, 13:01
The BNP should be allowed to march through any British town centre they like every week, thereby giving the nation the chance to study them at close quarters. I've never seen a more convincing example of immigration being essential to an island nation: to prevent the rest of the population from becoming in-bred morons.

KenV
26th Apr 2016, 17:53
May I offer that the title of the OP, There's No Stopping It, may be in error. I believe the tide of immigration can be abated by changing just one aspect of the current UK entitlement system. Make the various entitlements conditional. In other words, one must meet certain qualification standards to receive entitlements and NOT simply be standing on UK soil to receive the entitlements.

sitigeltfel
26th Apr 2016, 18:46
prevent the rest of the population from becoming in-bred morons.

Ask the paediatricians in the major UK cities about the cultural practice of marrying first cousins, generation after generation, and you might get a clue as to the identity of the real in-bred morons clogging the NHS paediatric services.

Curious Pax
26th Apr 2016, 19:00
Ask the paediatricians in the major UK cities about the cultural practice of marrying first cousins, generation after generation, and you might get a clue as to the identity of the real in-bred morons clogging the NHS paediatric services. I thought the royal family did it less these days.

sitigeltfel
26th Apr 2016, 19:57
I thought the royal family did it less these days.

Maybe you could enlighten us as to why you have raised an issue that last occurred in 1840, which medics agree had no detrimental effect, while you chose to ignore a problem that is having a severe effect on the affected population and NHS today?

Apart from trying to deflect attention from the issue, that is.

Random SLF
26th Apr 2016, 20:25
Surely the NHS was given exactly what it asked for by the last Labour government? Control over it's own finances and an end to smoking and binge drinking, the two main sources of it's funding through taxation. The medical profession has NO business sense whatsoever and control of the NHS should be taken back. Doctors ought to be looking at x-rays, not spreadsheets.