EK road show HK, March 1st

[SMOC]

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Sun 1st March 10:00am

SkyCity Marriott Hotel
1 Sky City Road East,
Hong Kong International Airport,
Lantau, Hong Kong.


Currently offering

Direct entry Commands on the A330

F/O all fleets.

If anyone goes, drop some feedback.

[triplesevencommuter]

Emirates have 50 resignations a day right now. 75% are Cabin Crew.

[Frogman1484]

That is utter BS!

50 per day and 75% are cabin crew (25% are pilots)! Ok do the maths.

25% makes it 12.5 pilots resigning per day or 375 per month... 4500 per year!

That is more pilots resigning than the currently have flying!

Nice try triplesevencomuter but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story!:ok::D

[triplesevencommuter]

I didn't say 25% were pilots, you made that assumption.
According to this blog post 10 days ago, 130 pilot resignations in the last 3 months.
20% of the cabin crew workforce resigned last year.
http://www.emirates-illuminati.org/the-real-reason-why-emirates-airline-plans-to-employ-11-000-new-staff-2/

[SOPS]

Do your home work carefully

[DropKnee]

Not interested in being a slave in the dessert. Not for me!!

[spleener]

Not interested in being a slave in the dessert. Not for me!!

Not even a trifle?

[Thai Pom]

How many of Cathay HR will be sitting in the lobby observing the procedure?:rolleyes:

[AndontcallmeShirley]

Slave in the desert or a slave in HK, what's the difference when it comes down to it?

As a locally employed FO I will be jumping pretty soon as per the plan, so i'll go and have a look.

Every year hear my roster gets worse, my rented shoebox gets smaller, my spending power gets lower and my staff travel gets worse. At EK, a villa and a car, some relatively breathable air and maybe even the odd longhaul. How can EK POSSIBLY be worse than this place?

[Thai Pom]

A title for a new thread ???:D

[geh065]

Not interested in being a slave in the dessert. Not for me!!

Not even a trifle?

Ooh I love a good trifle. Are those in the contract over there?

[positionalpor]

2 more NA FO resigned........

[freightdog188]

and? if more NA F/Os resign they will (eventually) up the package. But for NA only. And they're at the bottom of all salary scales anyways if I remember correctly. So in summary - NA F/Os resigning has NO effect at all on the "general population"

[Pucka]

...and 3 just sacked..FTL problems but prior to CC..not sackable..

[Will fly for Cash]

Care to explain further Pucka?

It's not simply the pay scales - the CX pay scale is at least within spitting distance of many quality NA carriers. It's the contract and work rules that are, by comparison, very sub-standard at CX. And as we all (should) know, the "RP's" are THE major determining factor in quality of lifestyle.

[Anotherday]

So they've stopped working G days and got fired? That makes no sense :ugh:

[positionalpor]

Freightdog188
I disagree and here it is why; if Cx claims to be one of the best airlines in the world, it shouldn't put pilots in the positions of leaving or considering it.
I think this goes beyond a geographical issue. If CX wants to be desirable again
has to improve the package across the board. If they really care about their "worldwide status" (face) then something must be done. Can't go on forever on old tales and glories.

[sxc]

How can EK POSSIBLY be worse than this place?

I understand that one of the things that makes EK worse is that all their flights depart in the middle of the night. So you're going to be jet lagged at home as well as at your destination. And EK definitely bends the rules wrt their SOP.

[Frogman1484]

I'm at Cx and all my flights leave at night! Cx bends the rules too!!! At least at EK YOU WILL HAVE ACCOMODATION PROVIDE FOR FREE!

[DropKnee]

Not even a itsy bitsy tiny bit!

[LowPassGliderA330]

Guys/Gals,

I´ve worked for EK more than five years. I quitted quite recently. Best moment of my life! Kids love it being in a decent country with a real culture. From my neighbors, four of them went to RyanAir.

In the first time at EK it was an awesome time, but later it became worse and worse. They introduced damn 92 hours per month, bidding NEVER worked. All the good managers (yes they had something like that!) left.
If you want to be a slave you have two options: any ME-Carrier (especially EK) and CX.

Note: when I joined the biggest thread was on how to get into the company, now all the threads are about how to leave. There is a reason why EK is posting ads on pprune.

I know some colleagues from cx and yes it is frustrating, but flying 92/hours is even more tiring. And at least you guys don't fly into sh*t places like bagdad (all the **** places are 330 destinations).

If you look at the money or a housing, go to _______ (imply Chinese carrier of your choice) and take 200,000$+ home a year. Really, the pay at EK is a piece of sh*t, in reality they made quite some pay cuts (more flying for the same money, inflation etc...).

Any questions???

[OK4Wire]

They introduced damn 92 hours per month

Ha ha, that's funny, because you wouldn't believe me if I told you that our very own pilots' union is trying to desperately INCREASE our flying hours from 84 to 92! And for no pay increase!!

UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE!!

[oriental flyer]

Well if that's true its way past time the members remove the committee

[clear.right]

Do you actually think the AOA is trying to increase our hours?

Did you hit your head?

[pilotcpb]

I was at a pub in HK a few months ago and happened to hear a few CX pilots griping about the job, basically the same stuff you hear everywhere these days about cost of living, schools too expensive, rosters, etc. I don't work at CX and I don't want to discount whatever is going on there but based on what I heard said that day there is little improvement to be had at any ME carrier. Unless you are from the EU and absolutely must commute home more often, or hell bent on flying a 380 you are probably better off where you are.

CX isn't the only carrier in HKG, i am sure plenty of disgruntled guys at HKA and even other carriers in SE Asia will be showing up. Some of the PFT kids flying 320s for the usual suspects are probably ready to join Club 380.

[GrumpyOldPilot]

some relatively breathable air

Countries with the worst air pollution ranked by World Health Organisation (http://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/countries-with-the-worst-air-pollution-ranked-by-world-health-organisation/story-e6frfqai-1227040198863)

[Pucka]

So...how did the roadshow go??

[sicilian]

I would imagine the seats would be packed with guys on HKPA? Absolute no brainer heading over to the Mid East

[Arfur Dent]

A genuine Time Bomb. Why would you live in a shoe box that you rent when all your Bosses have quite substantial multi-million dollar homes or boats that CX actually bought for them. A stupid and mean spirited insult from our gallant "Leaders" that makes Hong Kong impossible to sustain as a reasonable lifestyle for any New Joiner.
Clever, forward thinking imbeciles, whoever thought that one up.
Enjoy the sandpit chaps and move on again if that doesn't work out but don't stay here and be abused by the likes of RH and his cronies who are all worth a fortune thanks to the generous COS they now so heartily disapprove of.
Hypocritical Cowards one and all.........:{

[Frogman1484]

I agree it all comes down to housing

[Oasis]

How quick are the upgrades to command over there?

[Frogman1484]

I think it is running about 9-10 years.

The fact is that with no housing, financially you will never be able to get ahead.

[donpizmeov]

Almost.

Fellas starting EK 777 command course now joined 4.5yrs ago. When they joined it was taking 3yrs for guys to finish the Boeing command.
Fellas on the 380 starting course in May joined 4yrs 7 months ago. When they joined it was 5+yrs for a bus command to start, with no command upgrade on the 380.

Over 1700 FOs already on the list. Most are Boeing. Future upgrades are going to take a while.

Not much growth left on the Boeing, and half of the 380s are delivered by end of this year.

Single pilot should do ok on FO salary. Married pilot will not be saving.

New villas are in the Mayden complex. Plenty on mid east forum about them. But they are at no cost I guess.

I wouldn't be looking at EK as an improvement.

Rumour has it not many making the requirements went to the road show.

[bellcrank88]

Interesting that many of our new FO's are operating on type, but don't have the experience to even apply to EK. In the race to the bottom, I think CX is in first.

[donpizmeov]

Bellcrank,


I am not sure many FOs went to the roadshow. Rumour has it mostly SOs. I think you only need 2500hrs in a window seat to qualify.

[AQIS Boigu]

Etihad's requirements are a lot lower...similar pay and housing...

[AQIS Boigu]

The objective of this roadshow was to target everyone but CX skippers...

[Gnadenburg]

A330 Captains from KA or HKA might fancy a change. Direct entry B777 for a few years.

Many current KA Captains fancy a change and given the correct set of circumstances would leave in droves, but I don't think Ethiad is alluring in any way. Even to the most jaded.

[Frogman1484]

You got to remember that in the middle east they pay no tax, no utility bills and much cheaper grocery bills compared to Hong Kong.

When you add these figure to the Captain scales, they get pretty close....expect for the housing!!!!

It all boils down to the housing in HKG. :ugh:

Take your salary and remove tax, lights and water and then subtract to that your accommodation shortfall and they are miles ahead of you...even Captains!

Add to that the shorter time to command and you are miles ahead on a career income prospect too.

[gofor]

It is not always about the money, frankly if you are in it for the money , you may just be in it for the wrong reasons.

[Gnadenburg]

It all boils down to the housing in HKG.

Not true if our case here is EK and friends.

Have you lived in the Middle East? There's a lot more on offer in HKG IMO. Security, restaurants and cheap high quality alcohol, plenty of lifestyle escapes close by. Perhaps if you are a European and have never grown up with sunny days having a little boat on the Persian Gulf will be an attraction.

HKG's big issues are pollution and a toxic relationship between management and staff. This will drive some attrition. I just can not see any immediate attraction to the Mid East from HKG pilots; perhaps in the future expats on C scale will leave as DEC's more so than we are seeing today.

[Frogman1484]

The big difference between living in your home country and paying tax and living in Asia or ME is lifestyle. I would be more than happy to pay the tax if I'm living where I want to live, with my friends and Family around the corner.

IM living in HKG for the money...until I can go back home...not because I love HKG...and the smell of Mongkok!

The reality is that without housing, life in HKG sucks big time!

No lifestyle and no money!:ugh:

Go to where you can either have one or the other!:ok:

[Threethirty]

Lifestyle in Dubai is not comparable to Hong Kong, it's way better. Restuarants are cheaper and better quality, supermarkets are cheaper with far greater variety. It offers an outdoors lifestyle that you just don't get in Hong Kong due to the pollution and the dirty South China Sea. The EPC card allows for huge discounts, this combined with the tax free salary, lower costs and the EK wages are comparable to CX.

[The Cadet]

pretty good turnout.

[Jim-J]

What, in the 50 degree heat? Sure...

[Captain Dart]

Some interesting reading on the Middle East forum: crew shortages, resignation rates, cancelled courses, mediocre turnouts at the road shows, meanwhile the shiny jets just keep coming...

[Sam Ting Wong]

So, when are you guys leaving?

Right...

[AQIS Boigu]

EK's command course is only 10 sectors long...not like the space shuttle training at CX/KA.

[AQIS Boigu]

So, when are you guys leaving?

Most iKids don't have the hours atm...

[Plus852]

I would if they are accepting my hours (as most Second Officers would)

[Arcla]

Nope. It's 10 trips that is 20 sectors followed by the release to line check and then a normal line check.

[Australia2]

Never let the bull**** ruin a good story eh ?

[AQIS Boigu]

Arcla,

Got the EK training manual in front of me...10 sectors it is for an "on type" upgrade (which is ops normal in EK).

Get your facts right.

AB

[Oasis]

Wow, only 10 sectors.
This must mean that they trust their own decision in marking the candidates ready for upgrade.
This as opposed to this outfit that seems hellbent on proving itself wrong in this regard.

[Arcla]

AB - okay I have just checked the newest 2015 Training manual (1.3.1.9) and I humbly stand corrected.
However my point was that you make the EK command course sound like a walk in the park which it is not. Yes it's not the NASA space programme like at CX but it's certainly robust and any candidate that completes the course is just as competent.
I agree with Oasis - possibly EK gets the nomination to command process right...

[AQIS Boigu]

Arcla,

No worries - I realize that I might have come across like that but I am sure at EK the command course is very tough indeed. Similar to CX, captains at EK could encounter 15+ different accents a month in every climate zone out there.

The selection process for command is a lot tougher at EK and that could be the reason for a higher pass rate. 40 sectors at CX gives the candidate more opportunity to screw up or a trainer to find "minor stuff" on 30 more occasions than at EK.

Lets get back to the topic since this thread is about the EK roadshow.

Cheers,
AB

[Oasis]

How exactly is the command selection process at EK tougher than at CX?
Just interested...

[Threethirty]

They blind fold you in the office then ask you to find your way out.