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Effluent Man
22nd Feb 2015, 09:10
Families of the missing schoolgirls blaming the authorities for not stopping them from leaving. Well,maybe I am old fashioned,but did they not have some responsibility for their own kids.

Had they been weaned off fairy stories at a sensible age they may not have fallen for the blandishments of these latter day Prince Charmings who comprise ISIS. Personally I hope they get well f***ed for their troubles.

P6 Driver
22nd Feb 2015, 09:24
The modern way seems to be denial of all responsibility and make someone else take the blame for your own failings.

sitigeltfel
22nd Feb 2015, 10:24
The "Scottish" lawyer, Aamer Anwar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aamer_Anwar) was spouting forth on Sky this morning, blaming all and sundry for the girls disappearance.

None of his tribe ever stop to consider that the cult they are indoctrinated with might have some blame attached to it.

A greater piece of vermin is hard to imagine.

seafire6b
22nd Feb 2015, 10:28
I blame the parents. (Might sound trite, but true.)

Wingswinger
22nd Feb 2015, 11:36
Anwar, born in England of Pakistani parents (wikipedia) and moving to Scotland aged 19 is in no way Scottish but I noticed, having heard him speak on the radio yesterday, that he affects a mild Scottish accent. Something of an actor? Still he must be more Scottish than me because he would have had a vote last September whereas I didn't.

To answer the question posed: In this case, none. The parents are responsible.

Gertrude the Wombat
22nd Feb 2015, 11:46
The parents are responsible.
The state does rightly choose to intervene in some cases where the parents are incapable - you don't see very many four year olds dying in the gutter because they've got nowhere to go and nothing to eat.

The question is where to draw the line, and the line will move from time to time as and when the political process decides.

At present you might thing it's gone too far in the direction of parents abdicating all responsibility, on account of "the state" will sort out their mess for them. Incapable parents is one thing, can't-be-arsed parents is another, and the responses to the parents should probably be different, even though in both cases the children might need looking after.

Wingswinger
22nd Feb 2015, 11:52
If the reports are to be believed I don't think we're talking about "can't be arsed" parents in this case. However, they were't keeping too close an eye on what their little darlings were up to on their devices, were they? The parents are responsible.

om15
22nd Feb 2015, 12:19
Aamar Anwar also commented Muslims felt alienated because of a Western "binge drinking and Big Brother (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(TV_series))" cultureWhich does make you wonder quite why they come here in the first place.

Could you imagine the outrage from certain quarters if the authorities starting preventing people from leaving the UK, the parents should have kept an eye on their kids, and if they felt they needed help should have contacted social services.

vulcanised
22nd Feb 2015, 12:33
I heard Cameon say that he is 'Greatly concerned' about the fate of these girls.

I am greatly concerned that our PM even bothers himself over such trash.

Effluent Man
22nd Feb 2015, 12:54
Yes,me too. Binge drinking and Big Brother is no excuse to be alienated. I am alienated by them too,along with Come Dancing,Come Sewing and Come Baking fecking cakes. My response isn't however to hack follks heads off in my anger.

cockney steve
22nd Feb 2015, 12:56
I heard Cameon say that he is 'Greatly concerned' about the fate of these girls.
......but he was having no truck with it? :}....yea, I know, spelung.


There is an assumption the security services stood idly by........
Supposing they said " Good, that's another 3 antisocial, misguided little 5h1t5 out of the country! "

Effluent Man
22nd Feb 2015, 13:00
Ah ,very well spotted! Berliet or Saviem? According to the BBC it's now officially "The Authorities" fault.

bcgallacher
22nd Feb 2015, 13:02
Vulcanised - it is a prime example of our politicians priorities. These girls of their own volition have gone to join a vicious organisation who have just beheaded 21 Egyptians for being Christians. Mr Cameron and his ilk seem to have lost any kind of grip on reality when they are expressing concern for their welfare. As far as I am concerned the best outcome would be for these evil teenagers to be vapourised by an air strike or have a close encounter with the Peshmerga. UK politicians no longer have the best interests of the British people at heart. We are giving 7 billion in aid to some of the most corrupt regimes in the world while our NHS is being starved of resources. My politics have been of the left since I could reason,but this is not a matter of left or right,this is a matter of priority.

Effluent Man
22nd Feb 2015, 13:04
Harsh,but fair.

Interested Passenger
22nd Feb 2015, 13:15
going out to play in the sand pit isn't the problem, it's what they are tained to do while they are out there, and what they then do when come back here.

om15
22nd Feb 2015, 13:23
This is interesting and topical


British mother 'who fled to join Isil arrested at Heathrow' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11422100/British-mother-who-fled-to-join-Isil-arrested-at-Heathrow.html)


A woman arrested at Heathrow on suspicion of Syria-related terrorism offences is reportedly a 25-year-old mother who left the UK with her young son last year.
The woman has been named in reports as Tareena Shakil from Sparkbrook, Birmingham, but is originally from Burton-upon-Trent in Staffordshire.
She is a fan of television show The Only Way is Essex (TOWIE) who allegedly joined Isil (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/) - the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - and travelled to Raqqa in northern Syria (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11360581/Islamic-State-British-girls-join.-We-dismiss-them-as-jihadi-brides.html), before she is said to have fled to Turkey.
West Midlands Police said counter-terror officers detained a woman after she got off a flight from Turkey (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11421715/Woman-25-arrested-at-Heathrow-on-suspicion-of-Syria-related-terrorism-offences.html) at about 9pm on Wednesday.

Presumably the ISIL telly is no better than our own shows then, this puts old Aamer in his place.

OFSO
22nd Feb 2015, 13:35
As far as I am concerned the best outcome would be for these evil teenagers to be vapourised by an air strike or have a close encounter with the Peshmerga.

Harsh, but fair.

No, just fair.

Rosevidney1
22nd Feb 2015, 13:40
I can't remember any public clamouring by the indigenous British public that caused 3 million Moslems to settle here and nor am I pleased that so many of them wear 7th Century tribal costume and fail to contribute to this nation.
Call me racist if you wish but I cannot see we have any need of them.

racedo
22nd Feb 2015, 13:49
There is an assumption the security services stood idly by........
Supposing they said " Good, that's another 3 antisocial, misguided little 5h1t5 out of the country! "

They will return with their spawn to grow up at taxpayers expense......

Could they be sent to last known place of residence instead ?
Damascus or Baghdad

Gertrude the Wombat
22nd Feb 2015, 15:18
I cannot see we have any need of them
Dunno what it's like round your way but plenty of people here would not like to see the curry houses disappear. (Just to pick the most obvious example.)

Effluent Man
22nd Feb 2015, 15:31
It's a fair point and I have to admit that those around my way all seem decent enough coves who you can have a laugh and a joke with. There is an increasing element though who are seriously out to lunch and I am not at all sure how much the rest will put up with it. I was talking to a Hindu friend last week,kicked out of Uganda by Amin. He was as critical as anyone I have met of what is happening.

om15
22nd Feb 2015, 15:39
I think that the curry houses around here are owned by the other lot, at least they are cheery, serve strong lager and watch daft things on telly.


The whole problem seems to be that if you raise an eyebrow at medieval savages with British passports hacking the heads off innocent people you are immediately branded as racist, which most of us are not.
Have you noticed that Baroness Warsi has been busy employing other people who dislike British television into government positions.

But now, according to one Muslim leader, Islamic radicals are practising entryism of their own — into the heart of Whitehall – courtesy of a woman who was until recently a government minister.
Baroness Warsi, the first Muslim woman to sit in Cabinet, handed official posts to people linked to Islamist groups, including a man involved in an “unpleasant and bullying” campaign to win planning permission for the controversial London “megamosque” proposed by a fundamentalist Islamic sect.
He sits – alongside other radicals or former radicals and their allies – on a “cross-Government working group on anti-Muslim hatred” set up by Lady Warsi and Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11427370/Islamic-radicals-at-the-heart-of-Whitehall.html

Gertrude the Wombat
22nd Feb 2015, 16:19
I think that the curry houses around here are owned by the other lot...
Sure, plenty are. Round my way they're (mostly) Bangladeshi and Muslim ... but that doesn't stop them selling lager.

skydiver69
22nd Feb 2015, 17:53
The families have been on TV news today saying that had no idea or suspicion about what their daughters were planning, do if they had no inclination you can see how difficult it would have been for the police or security services to have known much more than them.

MG23
22nd Feb 2015, 19:56
The families have been on TV news today saying that had no idea or suspicion about what their daughters were planning, do if they had no inclination you can see how difficult it would have been for the police or security services to have known much more than them.

So their families were spying on everything they did, like GCHQ and the NSA?

The real problem is that the government claims it's going to protect people, but is utterly incapable of doing so. So, when there's another dismal failure like this one, the relatives complain that the government didn't do it's job, and the government just makes excuses for why it failed yet again.

skydiver69
22nd Feb 2015, 20:09
So their families were spying on everything they did, like GCHQ and the NSA?

They might not have been spying on them in the same way as GCHQ could but they did have a massive advantage over a government agency in that they presumably spoke to their daughters everyday and there were other siblings who would interact with them.

Maybe UKBA or even TK could have done more at the point they got to the airport, after all 3 15 or 16 year olds travelling to Istanbul on a well known route used by people wanting to join ISIS, should have raised some suspicions. Monitoring them up an until that point would have been hard to do as these girls would have been a tiny needle in a massive haystack, with the security forces focussing their limited resources on better known or understood targets.

Flyingmac
22nd Feb 2015, 20:31
I couldn't care less about them going. Just so long as they're not allowed to come back. It's time we made it law that a ticket to terrorism is one way.


Simplistic, I know, but I see things simply.

MG23
22nd Feb 2015, 21:18
They might not have been spying on them in the same way as GCHQ could but they did have a massive advantage over a government agency in that they presumably spoke to their daughters everyday and there were other siblings who would interact with them.

Uh, they're teenage girls. They know everything, and say nothing.

Gertrude the Wombat
22nd Feb 2015, 22:05
Uh, they're teenage girls. They know everything, and say nothing.
I'm saying nothing, but it can sometimes help if the teenage girl has a younger brother who reads the teenage girl's diary and shops the girl to the parents. That's effective spying for you.

tony draper
22nd Feb 2015, 22:21
Where did the money come from to pay the air fares?

419
22nd Feb 2015, 22:34
I couldn't care less about them going. Just so long as they're not allowed to come back. It's time we made it law that a ticket to terrorism is one way.

Unfortunately, if they have British citizenship that it will just about impossible to prevent their re-entry back into the UK if they wish to come, and them being under 18 years of age makes it even more unlikely that there will even be any sort of an attempt to stop them.

However, if/when they do return, the first thing I would do is to make sure that their names are entered onto the terrorism watch list (or whatever it's called) and kept on there for the rest of their lives.
If they have gone to sign up with ISIS, they have made their feelings towards us Western infidels quite clear and shown that they can't or shouldn't be trusted again.

parabellum
22nd Feb 2015, 23:36
Having watched two young girls next door grow up through their teens to their twenties and watched one of them programme a complicated set top box with one hand whilst texting with the other it doesn't surprise me at all that three teenage girls of any race can organise and execute their departure, if so inclined. Quite where they got the money is a mystery but they may have had legitimate savings or they may have known the number of a parents credit card, relying on the transaction not showing up until the monthly statement.


I think parents generally often don't take enough responsibility for the actions of their children but in this case, unless the girls had raised any suspicions, the parents probably trusted them. No father in his right mind would willingly let his well educated and intelligent daughter go off to join IS, surely?

reynoldsno1
22nd Feb 2015, 23:52
Well, about now they will have had their phones taken off them and realised that their smart clothes & big sunglasses are superfluous to requirements. They will also been introduced to any number of big bad Abduls, all potential suitors ... and they ain't gonna get a chance to call Mum to pick them up.

ChrisVJ
23rd Feb 2015, 00:13
I would say that I am about as right wing as you can get but frankly the level of discourse on this particular subject is lower than I have ever seen on JB, (and that is saying something!)

First, the girls are just teenagers, kids, and at that age are so vulnerable to fads cults and almost anything that they do need protection, from others and themselves.

Second, when did any teenager tell their parents about their ‘secrets?’ Can only imagine what we didn’t know from our kids growing up. (And we live in a village where we’d be told if our kids stopped to tie a shoe lace.)
Third. What do you expect if you allow ‘clerics’ and others to preach jihad, hate filled speech about your authorities etc?

Fourth. If you fail to provide leadership and real adventure for your kids what do you expect? If they can’t find it in their daily lives they will look for it elsewhere, and that includes the first people to offer it, whether it be gangs, drug fuelled raves or holy wars, and on the wrong side too, doesn’t matter.

Fifth. The break down of the ‘God Fearing’ society (and by that I mean the Judeo Christian or other ‘good’ faith based,) and respect for authority figures has left a generation with no boundaries and not enough guidance.
Fifth. None of us are perfect parents, mostly we are just lucky with how our kids turn out, however hard we try. Perhaps a little compassion for parents who possibly have no idea where they ‘went wrong’ and are grieving for their lost kids.

Generally I don’t believe in blaming everyone but those who transgress but these are kids. For the last five years or so they would largely follow the influences of their peers and those in their immediate surroundings. If we as a society allowed them to be influenced by hate mongers etc, what would you expect? I don’t give their parents a pass but in today’s world they are pretty well helpless against the outside world.

Perhaps instead of sniping at the easy targets you might care to suggest some strategies and give support for those trying to provide real leadership. If you don’t you can hardly complain and your sniping at the parents on here sounds just plain nasty.

cockney steve
23rd Feb 2015, 00:18
Unfortunately, if they have British citizenship that it will just about impossible to prevent their re-entry back into the UK if they wish to come, and them being under 18 years of age makes it even more unlikely that there will even be any sort of an attempt to stop them.

Time to bring back the treason acts?
That way, they have a choice....be hanged by the Infidels they were desparate to wage war on, or be used and abused in the sandpit.

@ Effluent man... Berliet or Saviem? Nearly! more likely to be Burkha and Sully'em:}

cockney steve
23rd Feb 2015, 00:59
but frankly the level of discourse on this particular subject is lower than I have ever seen on JB,

No, just warming up!
First, the girls are just teenagers, kids, and at that age are so vulnerable to fads cults and almost anything that they do need protection
Which is why a good parent would have sat the kids down and explained very fully, that these stone-age, hate-filled rabble -rousers were perjuring and demeaning the true Islamic faith.
when did any teenager tell their parents about their ‘secrets?’ Can only imagine what we didn’t know from our kids growing up
Speak foir yourself! I knew when my kids were drinking, smoking dope, having sexual encounters......they knew i knew......they knew there were boundaries and didn't push any further than those (fair) limits.

Third. What do you expect if you allow ‘clerics’ and others to preach jihad, hate filled speech about your authorities etc?

That, Sir, is the first sensible point you make. :ok:

If you fail to provide leadership and real adventure for your kids what do you expect? If they can’t find it in their daily lives they will look for it elsewhere, and that includes the first people to offer it, whether it be gangs, drug fuelled raves or holy wars, and on the wrong side too, doesn’t matter.

Mine went sailing, climbing, hiking, joined Scouts/Guides/St. John Ambulance.......We parents pointed them in the right direction......see previous point about sensible use of drugs, both legal and illegal, and antisocial behaviour.......yes, this village they were all well -known as well.

Fifth. The break down of the ‘God Fearing’ society (and by that I mean the Judeo Christian or other ‘good’ faith based,) and respect for authority figures has left a generation with no boundaries and not enough guidance.

So, It's ok for parents to abrogate their responsibilities and expect the God-botherers, Educators and other authoritarian figureheads to pick up the wreckage of idle/feckless/incompetent parenting , then?

fifth. None of us are perfect parents, mostly we are just lucky with how our kids turn out, however hard we try. Perhaps a little compassion for parents who possibly have no idea where they ‘went wrong’ and are grieving for their lost kids.

Sorry about your stammer :p (Fifth ,repeated)

Not luck, bloody hard work. Every child has a different innate character and personality. If you don't master and control that, then all the trying in the world will not train a successful, social, integrated member of society.


In summary of your postscript, the parents have chosen to live in the Western World, whilst rejecting it's lifestyle, morals and values and passing that rejection on to their children.
I offer to you, the vast number of Sikhs, Moslems and other creeds (OK, let's chuck in the Orthodox Jews) who happily , or at least, PEACEFULLY co-exist with , and respect the rights of, those who may follow a different ethos /creed or cult. They also seem to respect the right of the native culture to be pre-eminent..


Now, was that the £5 argument, or the £10 one?

fitliker
23rd Feb 2015, 01:15
If they did not have FGM before they left, they will getting that done on arrival.


For the them big bang theory will no longer be a TV show :)

Octopussy2
23rd Feb 2015, 10:01
Well said, ChrisVJ

Fitliker That's a new low, even for JB. What a great subject to joke about.

Blacksheep
23rd Feb 2015, 13:44
The airline has a certain responsibility in this. Children travelling on their own should be carried as unaccompanied minors and be escorted on the journey.

They were cleared through check-in and again through immigration in Turkey. That makes two fails. The point about teenagers hiding their activities from parents is well made, but that should not have been the case with check-in staff and immigration officers.

fitliker
23rd Feb 2015, 13:55
Nothing lower than what is done to some of these "British girls " by their families. In the name of culture.
But hey ,maybe if we never mention FGM it will go away, maybe if we never mention arranged marriage's of young fertile women to old rich first cousins to get them British passports and pensions. That cultural practice might stop as well.
Maybe these young girls were running away from their family honour ,rather than running into the arms of a "warrior". It must frustrating to live in a free country and be required to follow family rules based on the dictates of a religious doctrine that denounces freedom, democracy, liberty and many other western values such as humour.


The only responsibility of the state is to allow and maintain the freedoms that our ancestors fought for. In a free country you are free to break any law you want .If these women/schoolgirls want to give comfort to those who have declared themselves enemies of the west ,they are be free to go.
Let them go and when they come back with their stories let them be heard in a court of law, as to why they should be allowed to live freely amongst us once again. That should be more entertaining than divorce court.


The sad reality of the war zone in Syria is that women get non-consensually abused and suffer grotesque injuries and disease as a result of that abuse, and the men get killed. Maybe war would lose its glamour and go out of fashion if the men were raped and the women killed.

wiggy
23rd Feb 2015, 14:40
Children travelling on their own should be carried as unaccompanied minors and be escorted on the journey.

Do you mean they legally "should" have been carried as UMs (i.e. the law demands it) or that in your opinion you think they "should"?

FWIW the junior wiggy's were accomplished solo travellers in their early teens ( but adults were at both ends of the journies), as are many teenagers....most of whom manage to avoid ending up in Syria..

In addition check-in staff have enough to do without having to act as proxies for social services and/or UK Border.

rog747
23rd Feb 2015, 14:59
they weren't UNMINS

one was 16 so could escort the 2 x 15 yo's

vulcanised
23rd Feb 2015, 15:11
Having seen their photos I'm wondering if it's the only way they can get a shag?

Lonewolf_50
23rd Feb 2015, 15:16
To answer the OP's question:
If the government has that much control over an individual's comings and goings, you are living in a tyranny that makes North Korea look like a liberal democracy.
My answer to you is No, this isn't the State failing. It is selected citizens exercising their freedom to screw up ... which is one of the most precious freedoms any of us has. ;)
Vulcanised: who knows what their motivations were? Mind reading I am not good at.

Curious Pax
23rd Feb 2015, 16:13
Vulcanised: who knows what their motivations were? Mind reading I am not good at.

You and me both Mr Wolf, though we seem to be in a minority on this thread! That and the ability to know their home circumstances exactly!

OFSO
23rd Feb 2015, 16:56
they're teenage girls.

They were, according to the country in which they made their decision to leave.

Now, they are women, according to the country they have chosen to go to.

Their choice: possibly ignorant, ill-informed, made on grounds which to an adult would seem illogical, but their choice.

When I was that age I saw many fellow teenagers make stupid choices. It has always been that way. "Run away to sea", "Join a circus", "Lie about your age and join the Army".

Thing is, we didn't have the possibilities people do now. In theory, young people should be better informed than in my day, but reading this thread, obviously not. Life is always waiting to pounce on the unwary.

bcgallacher
23rd Feb 2015, 21:37
At 15 years of age a girl knows what is acceptable to the society she lives in - these three have chosen to join an organisation which beheads, incinerates and shoots its perceived enemies. It kills others for the simple reason that they are not of the same faith. Why on Earth is our Prime Minister 'concerned' for them? Police officers have been sent to attempt to bring them back.Frankly the last thing we want is people with the views they have to be returned.Cancel their passports and leave them to get on with 'jihad' in the hope that their survival time will be limited.

Lonewolf_50
23rd Feb 2015, 21:44
bcg, on this rare occasion where our PoV's coincide, I am marking my calendar. :ok:

Flash2001
23rd Feb 2015, 21:46
Well, many of the countries that these teens come from have rules about age of consent that assume that the teen is not completely responsible.

After an excellent landing etc...

bcgallacher
24th Feb 2015, 00:18
LoneWolf 50 - I cannot see many people disagreeing with the idea that these girls with the views they must have - it is a good thing to brutally slaughter people supposedly in the name of Islam - should be kept out of the country.
I really do not think that anyone would be happy to see them as next door neighbours for example. A governments first duty is to ensure the safety of its citizens - bringing these savages back would do little to improve it.

reynoldsno1
24th Feb 2015, 01:19
Children travelling on their own should be carried as unaccompanied minors and be escorted on the journey. Indeed, and for Turkish Airlines the defining age is, apparently, 12 or under...

Fox3WheresMyBanana
24th Feb 2015, 02:30
Three more idiots join IS. My heart bleeds........oh, hang on, no. It's just ketchup from last night's hot dog.



* Yup, we dug down through six feet of snow to the fire pit and had a BBQ last night. I kid you not!

Effluent Man
24th Feb 2015, 06:44
Vulcanised makes a most ungallant point but it's one that has probably crossed the minds of many of us who have seen their photographs. These three maybe look their best in burkhas.

It may well be relevant in them taking an interest in religion. I find that a little bit sad,but I guess it has always been thus.

tony draper
24th Feb 2015, 07:51
Aren't they about ten year past marriageable age for those bastards?

ORAC
24th Feb 2015, 08:39
The Independent no less.......

If teenage girls want to join Isis in the face of all its atrocities, then they should leave and never return (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-teenage-girls-want-to-join-isis-in-the-face-of-all-its-atrocities-then-they-should-leave-and-never-return-10065516.html) :D:D

Octopussy2
24th Feb 2015, 09:20
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the fact of men in their 60s commenting on the appearance of 15-year-old girls and drawing inferences spectacularly creepy? :yuk:

Given that is Pprune, it probably is just me, but it had to be said.:(

OFSO
24th Feb 2015, 11:56
* Yup, we dug down through six feet of snow to the fire pit and had a BBQ last night. I kid you not!

Well done, that man ! Draw yourself a medal out of stores.


men in their 60s

Damn your impudence, Sir, I'm in my seventies.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
24th Feb 2015, 12:18
Octopussy2 - Not at all. Vulcanised isn't insinuating they should be shagging him. Given that intelligence shows a large number of male islamist terrorists are sexually frustrated, underconfident jerks, it seems a valid point to make. Indeed, pursuing this line of inquiry may lead to means of both identifying and preventing further islamist recruitment.
Let's face it, anyone joining a nihilistic organisation is probably desperately unhappy with themselves (if they aren't simply evil).

The mere fact of your commenting on "men in their 60's commenting" is more concerning to me.
http://conservativewoman.co.uk/kathy-gyngell-feminism-robs-men-dignity-rob-lives/

parabellum
24th Feb 2015, 12:22
Damn your impudence, Sir, I'm in my seventies.

OFSO , in this case 'Sir' is a madam and we, by definition, being sixty and over, are dirty old men until we can prove otherwise. ;) This is JB, after all!

Blacksheep
24th Feb 2015, 13:16
As a father of four women who were once unruly teenagers, I just can't get my head around the way the terrorists convinced these three intelligent teenaged girls that getting on a plane and flying off to join in the fight was a good idea.

#Just baffled :confused:

ORAC
24th Feb 2015, 13:21
As a father of four women who were once unruly teenagers, I just can't get my head around the way the terrorists convinced these three intelligent teenaged girls that getting on a plane and flying off to join in the fight was a good idea. Join the fight? I believe the term is "brood mares".

Lonewolf_50
24th Feb 2015, 13:39
Blacksheep, if you note the propensity of teenaged females to become groupies and adoring fans of rock musicians, from the 50's to present, or even to go ape over idiots like that Bieber thing, you can translate that propensity into becoming groupies of any number of folks, to include the ISIS twits ... particularly if it pisses off you parents.

Some form of de gustibus non est disputandum is in play here.
Not sure how it scans in Arabic.

ORAC: I believe the term is "brood mares".
Most likely true, whether those young ladies are aware of it or not.

Octopussy2
24th Feb 2015, 13:48
Fox I think you misunderstand me - I am not suggesting that men in their 60's (or any age) shouldn't be - ahem - sexually active and interested, I'm merely saying that it would be nice to aspire to a level of debate higher than (effectively) "they're right mingers, must have been desperate, no wonder they ran off".

Blacksheep
24th Feb 2015, 13:52
My troop of thirty-somethings are still adoring fans of their now aging musician and film actor heart-throbs, but they never attempted to run off with any of them.

I mean, there is plenty of the IS terrorists' self published propensity to violence on t'internet. Removing innocent people's heads slowly and delibrately with a carving knife or locking folk into a cage and setting them on fire is not the sort of behaviour that captures the hearts of normal impressionable teenage girls.

I can only conclude that these are not normal impressionable teenage girls, but then how did no-one - including school friends and teachers - not notice any change in their character or behaviour?

crippen
24th Feb 2015, 13:57
they chased after J.S. didn't they??? There if no explaining the female mind. :uhoh:

Curious Pax
24th Feb 2015, 14:00
Plenty of teenage girls pop up in the press from time to time as victims of male grooming, and the consensus is that they've fallen victim to evil [email protected] and they gain sympathy for being deceived.

Teenage girls potentially fall victim to grooming by evil terrorist [email protected] and it would seem to be the girls fault.....


There's nowt so strange as folk.....

om15
24th Feb 2015, 19:27
I can only conclude that these are not normal impressionable teenage girls, but then how did no-one - including school friends and teachers - not notice any change in their character or behaviour?It may well be that however bright these girls are reported to be, they just didn't realise the enormity of what they were letting themselves in for, as so inelegantly expressed on this thread, it may be hormones rather than ideology that motivated this.
They have supposedly crossed the border a few days ago, so by now they will have had a reality check. They will be a sh$thole with no facilities, medical care, no trustworthy person to look after them, by this time rather frightened and probably abused.
I can't really bring myself to gloat over this, I don't think that the State are in any way responsible, that is the parents role, and I suspect by now they are reflecting on that.

It would be helpful if we heard more from the Muslim community and it's leaders condemning ISIS/ISIL, it appears that it is easier to blame the British Government and it's various agencies when things go wrong rather than address their own mess.

toffeez
24th Feb 2015, 19:48
Are they not? Don't pity them

ORAC
24th Feb 2015, 21:19
Teenage girls potentially fall victim to grooming by evil terrorist [email protected] and it would seem to be the girls fault.....

Yeah, right...

Spectator: To be ‘groomed’ is to gain instant victim status (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/rod-liddle/2015/02/to-be-groomed-is-to-gain-immediate-victim-status/)


A minor point, I suppose, but one worth noting. It was stated on the BBC and in the liberal press that these three girls who have scuttled off to Syria for a spot of beheading and FGM had been ‘groomed’ by radical Islamists. A word not used when it is young men who head off to fight for Isis. A word, which in its current – and terribly, terribly overused – meaning immediately confers victim status upon whoever it is who has been ‘groomed’.

This was pointed out to me by a chap called John Locke in a debate about the girls on a social media website, and it was a very accurate and prescient observation. I daresay that in the BBC’s next report they will not merely have been ‘groomed’, but will also have been ‘vulnerable’. Words which have been co-opted by the liberal left to mean whatever they want them to mean....

skydiver69
24th Feb 2015, 21:21
It may well be that however bright these girls are reported to be, they just didn't realise the enormity of what they were letting themselves in for, as so inelegantly expressed on this thread, it may be hormones rather than ideology that motivated this.
They have supposedly crossed the border a few days ago, so by now they will have had a reality check. They will be a sh$thole with no facilities, medical care, no trustworthy person to look after them, by this time rather frightened and probably abused.

Not according to one of the ladies who preceded them. According to what was on the BBC news she described living in the IS as like being in a pearl whereas before back in England she was living in a shell.

ORAC
24th Feb 2015, 21:25
Flown back to interviewed by the BBC was she?

"Germany calling, Germany calling........"

skydiver69
24th Feb 2015, 22:14
Damn where's the irony smiley when you need it :p

G-CPTN
24th Feb 2015, 22:22
It would be interesting to receive unbiased news of the reactions of these (and other) youngsters who have striven to reach Syria.

Consider Libya, where Ghaddafi reportedly had a hareem of young women at his behest. Were they willing volunteers or abused 'brood mares'?

Maybe the reality of life with IS in Syria is socially desirable?

G-CPTN
25th Feb 2015, 19:21
BBC News - Smuggler reveals how UK schoolgirls crossed into Syria (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31632708)

sitigeltfel
26th Feb 2015, 07:07
The three fools are so intent on following Mohammed that they cannot see Darwin creeping up behind them.

Pinky the pilot
26th Feb 2015, 09:32
they cannot see Darwin creeping up behind them.

Can't see a problem about that then.

Lonewolf_50
26th Feb 2015, 17:09
I think I've figured it out.
Hypothesis:
They are groupies of Jihadi John (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31641569).
The three gals let nothing deter them in their pursuit of their affection. Being Muslims, they know he's allowed 4 wives by law and custom, so the three have made a pact to be 3 of his 4.
What they don't understand: he left the country because the three of them were driving him nuts with their crushes ... brought on in part to his slightly similar appearance to Justin Bieber. His headlong flight to Syria was an act of desperation. He figured it would be better to fight and die overseas than to be subject to the relentless attention of three nitwit teen girls who just won't leave him alone.

It's plausible ... :p
I think we can squeak a 12 episode TV series out of this! :E

Fox3WheresMyBanana
26th Feb 2015, 17:43
Is this a new variant on Godwin's Law? - At some point all the evils of the World will be blamed on Justin Bieber?

Lonewolf_50
26th Feb 2015, 18:41
Fox, the Biebish thing is one of the signs of the Apocalypse. :p
In this case, we may indeed blame Canada.
When a farcical movie's gag line becomes reality, I worry.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
26th Feb 2015, 19:27
All Leave the UK - simples!

Already gone!



p.s. Fox to Wolf - so, Bieber is the Anti-Christ? I get the 'lawless one' bit, but where are the horns?

om15
26th Feb 2015, 19:30
Now we know the identity of the heathen savage, also that he was alienated and made to feel an outsider by the British security forces.
In hindsight the security forces may now wish that they had permanently made this vile barbarian feel slightly more alienated and uncomfortable.


I wish that the BBC would not give those justifying this creature air time, listening to the cage bloke on R4 this afternoon really made me despair.


We understand that the Yanks are going after him, I suppose we can take comfort from the vast collateral damage they will cause, they have a top security cell waiting for him, in the event he returns here we will probably give him a council house, an allowance for his bints and backdated job seekers allowance.

Lonewolf_50
26th Feb 2015, 19:40
Fox, there are seven signs, and seven seals.
The "Great Tribulations" (sixth) seems to be where the Bieber falls. :p
I think the antichrist shoes are a bit too big for him to fit into. :cool:

om15: if anyone on our side can drop a warhead on his forehead, won't that be a good thing? (I don't mean the Bieber, but that JihadJohn ... or do I :E )

Norman Deplume
26th Feb 2015, 20:42
Basil:
Nail and head spring to mind.

Well done Sir!

P.S I feel "alienated" so I will murder some people....yep..ok mate, that is perfectly reasonable. Yu fecking baboon. Bugger off back to Kuwait then...no wait....Syria is nice as Kuwait at this time of year......Let's kill his parents and rape his sisters/mothers/family pets because I feel alienated. We can all play this game.

How long before this gets deleted?

tony draper
26th Feb 2015, 20:57
We need to reform a good wet work dept.:suspect:

om15
26th Feb 2015, 21:09
if anyone on our side can drop a warhead on his forehead, won't that be a good thing?

Certainly, if you could manage one of those massive bombs that vaporise everything for about 50 miles you might atomise his best friends as well, we would like to, but can't afford bombs any more.

Norman Deplume
26th Feb 2015, 21:50
"Wetwork" Don't go all Russian on me. Just kill him and all of his 9 year old wives....and his camel mistress...and everyone in his family. Yes even his 9 year old sister wife.

Waiting for the liberals to say I am being unreasonable...

And the mods to ban me

Norman Deplume
26th Feb 2015, 22:16
Incidentally, the Japanese were a bunch of barbarians until they were taught a very valuable lesson.

Forget collateral damage, gloves off and no mincing about.

I suggest a book called "Understanding Arabs" by an American (female) diplomat. Required reading for anyone who works in sunny places or has an interest in those places. Which we now all do.

And no, the last page does not say "You never will".

Watch the "Comedy Channel".....erm, sorry I meant the "Peace Channel" from Qatar to see how truly deluded some people are, and then you can maybe understand the mindset. :ugh:

These twunts need to be stopped, sooner rather than later. A bucket of sunshine on their heads may convince them, as it did the Japanese, that our god has bigger mates than your god. Intentionally no capital letters as in "father xmas or sky pixie or bishop, rabbi, etc."

Norman Deplume
26th Feb 2015, 22:25
Actually, I was wrong.

If you check out the link below, "the earth is anchored to the stars". Please tell my General Nav instructor (the late and GREAT Pete Pitcher) that he was wrong all the time......It's true because the imam told me so......

The Earth is Stationary (http://raza-e-khushtar.org/articles/concerning-the-creation/the-earth-is-stationary)
:rolleyes:

You could not make it up....

Pete would be laughing his head off by all of this. He was a legend, unlike this twunt.

OFSO
2nd Mar 2015, 14:32
Bieber is the Anti-Christ?

No, personality too weak.

A slight TD, but he had his 21st birthday yesterday, thus making him technically (but not otherwise) an 'adult', under the old rules.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
2nd Mar 2015, 15:36
Well, at least we have 2 more years before there's any chance of him driving an airliner ;)