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Interested Passenger
20th Feb 2015, 19:04
According to the news, two 15 year old girls and one who's 16 have flown to Turkey and are believed to be going to Syria. Police are concerned for their safety.

let's not worry about why they are going, what they are going to do, who they are going to do it to, etc....

Police are concerned for their safety - now. Air travel is the most controlled form of transport. Every single passenger - and flight crew is a suspected terrorist, and yet three unaccompanied school children can take a flight to a terrorist hot spot, and not raise any concerns.

can the systems in place not flag suspicious travellers, BEFORE they travel?

victor tango
20th Feb 2015, 19:11
Maybe because Border Guards or whoever were in "arrival mode" ie checking whats coming in.

They might have spotted something if they were in "departure mode" that,s facing the other way towards departures.

You get what you pay for.:rolleyes:

beaufort1
20th Feb 2015, 19:17
More importantly, this apparent exodus of British citizens to join ISIS surely gives an opportunity to be rid of some of the fifth column within UK borders and their passports should be automatically cancelled.

fireflybob
20th Feb 2015, 21:39
Not sure of the rules but surely at 15 years they were minors and travelling unaccompanied.

I was under the impression that the minimum age for travel unaccompanied was 16 years unless with parental consent.

Maybe this should have been picked up at booking/check in?

lasernigel
20th Feb 2015, 21:41
3 less virgins soon!

G-CPTN
20th Feb 2015, 21:59
One girl is alleged to have travelled on her older sister's passport.

Don't know how that would work - wouldn't the names have to tally?

cockney steve
20th Feb 2015, 22:10
One has to question the quality of parenting, the alienation, the lack of loyalty to their domicile.
Perhaps the parents should face the immigration authorities and be given the chance to plead their case as loyal English subjects, before issue of a 1-way ticket to Turkey without a (revoked) UK passport......they would, of course, be obliged to be accompanied by all their extended family who displayed similar loyalties to IS or other proscribed leanings considered against the interests of Western peace and Democracy.

bcgallacher
20th Feb 2015, 22:16
Does anyone really care?

Fox3WheresMyBanana
20th Feb 2015, 22:27
We are at war with ISIS. They are therefore now illegal combatants without protection under the Geneva Conventions, as is anyone who assisted them knowing their intentions, and they are traitors if they return to the UK (Life Imprisonment, I believe).

Simples!

Interested Passenger
20th Feb 2015, 23:02
At 15 it's quite unlikely they work for the security agencies and are going to infiltrate ISIS and wipe out the leadership, so whatever they are up to is going to be bad for someone.

Possibly they misunderstood the ISIS holiday brochure and are in for a shock when they find out how women are treated. Or they are going to be weaponised and let loose out there, or sent back here.

The police now seem concerned about the former, personally I think we should be more concerned about the latter.

What this really shows is that anyone so inclined is free to go out there, with nothing to stop them.

maybe instead of asking if you packed your own bag, do you have scissors or 101ml of baby food, the better question at check in would be do you intend to join any terrorist organisations and declare holy war on society?

11Fan
20th Feb 2015, 23:48
3 less virgins soon! By my count, they've been going through them pretty quickly. Maybe it's a recruiting drive.

I imagine there's some yahoo with a suicide vest standing around waiting for the other 69 to show up before he heads out.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
20th Feb 2015, 23:58
I thought vest-wearer's heads went up, not out?

11Fan
21st Feb 2015, 01:00
Actually, I think they go pffffttttttt

finfly1
21st Feb 2015, 03:28
One news source online blurred the faces of the trio. NO idea why.

megan
21st Feb 2015, 03:39
Actually, I think they go pffffttttttt Definitely up. The Bali bombers head was found splattered on the ceiling, rather what was left of it, and the bomber of the Australian embassy in Jakarta had his found on something like the fourth floor.

Clare Prop
21st Feb 2015, 05:48
Presumably if they covered up in full islamic dress they are almost impossible to identify?

SOPS
21st Feb 2015, 06:03
There is a photo of them on the news services Clare, wearing normal western dress, taken at Gatwick I think.

parabellum
21st Feb 2015, 06:11
Reading The Guardian Basil? You deserve to be sectioned, not moderated! :)

OFSO
21st Feb 2015, 08:44
Does anyone really care?

Frankly, no.

You really have to shake your head in disbelief. No more make-up, no more dressing up, no more discos, no more music, no more girls parties, no more KFC or MacDonalds, no more TKMax and as been implied here, locked up indoors and probably a lot of non-compliant rogering by unwashed sons of the sand.

They obviously have no idea when they are getting into (or what will shortly be getting into them).

Buster Hyman
21st Feb 2015, 09:07
Natural Selection is a work in progress....

skydiver69
21st Feb 2015, 10:37
finfly
One news source online blurred the faces of the trio. NO idea why.

Apparently two families agreed that the media could release their daughter's details but one family didn't hence hiding the face of the third girl.

Its difficult to predict who might do what in our current fight against modern terrorist threats. In the past 15 and 16 y/o girls from the UK have not joined the fight but now they are, however it looks like it has caught the police and security services off guard. Most of what the police can do is intelligence led and presumably will be focussed on known or highlighted threats. People who slip under the radar or who don't match a certain profile will slip through the net, particularly when resources are spread increasingly thinly due to financial cuts.

Andy_S
21st Feb 2015, 10:41
Perhaps the parents should face the immigration authorities and be given the chance to plead their case as loyal English subjects, before issue of a 1-way ticket to Turkey without a (revoked) UK passport......

I understand what you're saying.

However, something inside me keeps reminding me that these are teenage girls. And of course, being teenage girls they know everything about everything, and are certainly smarter than their parents, who quite obviously "just don't get it, yeah....."

It's been suggested that at least one of them has an older friend who has already travelled to Syria. One wonders if these three had their heads turned by this friend before she left. Maybe they were told that in the IS no one would make them come home by 10pm, or would make them do chores, or would object to them having boyfriends. Maybe they were told that they could have a house of their own and would be treated like adults rather than children. And of course, if their older friend told them these things then obviously they must be true......

I think I would agree to take them back if they agreed to go on Television, and then do a nationwide tour of schools with a high proportion of Muslim pupils, to explain the difference between their perception of life in the IS as opposed to the reality.

bcgallacher
21st Feb 2015, 11:03
Once again we see the perversion of modern Islam where western educated young women can find it attractive to join an organisation such as ISIS. An organisation which reduces women to subjugated chattels,dedicated to the most brutal slaughter of anyone who opposes it and those of other religions - even those of other branches of Islam are regarded as apostates. ISIS has the ability to cause the western world considerable problems - their wild ambitions about flying the black flag over the White House and Buckingham Palace are deluded fantasies of ignorant barbarians but suicide bombings and so called 'lone wolf 'attacks could result in loss of life and a restriction of our freedoms. Our government does not seem to understand what we are facing - conducting one air strike a day is hardly likely to make much difference,knocking out the odd pickup truck with a 100,000 Brimstone is a complete waste of time and money. We should be confronting these savages with everything at our disposal until they are completely destroyed.Do we have to wait until we have a real atrocity on our hands before we take effective action or do we no longer have the military capability?

Choxolate
21st Feb 2015, 11:09
BCG Do we have to wait until we have a real atrocity on our hands before we take effective action
I think we have already had some real atrocities, no need to wait any longer - these vermin need destroying now.

skydiver69
21st Feb 2015, 11:11
But Mr Gallacher your argument is useless against people who are educated or influenced by people who think the that the sun revolves around the earth or that driving a car can make a woman infertile, and that Allah is perfect and provide all the answers as long as you believe the interpretation of his words by one particular set of clerics. These guys don't even accept that Shi'ites are true Muslims so what help have the rest of us against their 'logic.'

I think there are three approaches we can take. Education and logical argument for some, armed response for others, and lastly find a place where they can live their stone age life free from western 'pollution' and anything else which defiles their perfect vision for the world.

SOPS
21st Feb 2015, 11:12
I cannot understand my they are hanging back....attack them now.

G-CPTN
21st Feb 2015, 11:45
Apart from English, these girls have no common language with those in Syria (or Turkey).

bcgallacher
21st Feb 2015, 12:05
Skydiver - the Nazis and the Japanese even more so had a similar philosophy to ISIS and we defeated them by total destruction,not by persuasion or education.We had no qualms about 'collateral damage'. I know a little about Islam having lived for about 20 years in Islamic countries,Sunni,Wahabi and Shia.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
21st Feb 2015, 12:27
You can't beat indoctrination with education, or religion with logical argument.
You can beat them with a bloody big stick.

bcgallacher
21st Feb 2015, 12:35
Fox 3 - My point exactly.

airship
21st Feb 2015, 13:08
To the tune of the Christmas carol:

We three teens from Bethnal Green
Bearing gifts we've travelled afar
Gatwick via Turkish to Istanbul's Ataturk
Following yonder star.

O star of jihad, star of dark
Star with brutal message, blight
Backward leaning, still proceeding
Guide us to thy perfect plight.

Born in pain, on Syria's plain
Brides I bring to Raqqa again
ISIS forever, ceasing never
Over us all to reign.

My virginity to offer, have I
Chastity a virtue of value no more
Conflict and servitude, now and forever
Worshipping ISIS on high.

Misery is mine, its bitter perfume
Leave this life of meaningless gloom
Forgetting family, bleeding and dying
One day sealed in a stone cold tomb.

Glorious now, behold she arises
Teenage dreams of God and sacrifice
Allahu-Akbar, Allahu-Akbar
Tears fall, from heaven to earth.

vctenderness
21st Feb 2015, 13:27
To enter Turkey you need to obtain a visa in advance. This has to be done on line at the Turkish embassy website costing $20 US.

Why do the Turks not check out 15 year olds with obvious Islamic names when applying for this?

You are allowed 180 days on a visa and only 90 days in total during that period.

So if you enter Turkey cross into Syria stay longer than 90 days and try and return via Turkey are you not easily picked up?

I believe the new President, Recep Erdogan, is a supporter of ISIS and wishes to turn Turkey into a Islamic State. He has introduced all kinds of rules around alcohol has tried to ban Facebook and other social media in short he is moving in the wrong direction.

goffered again
21st Feb 2015, 14:45
Actually the original request was for 72 of them but that's the east end for you!

6000PIC
21st Feb 2015, 15:05
Get information on these 3 girls , arrest immediately if they return. Interrogate.
Turkey will eventually have a confrontation with NATO , should be thrown out.
Saudi Arabia along with Qatar have blood on their hands for financing ISIS.
This is as much a battle between Shia and Sunni as it is with the West.
The USA needs to fill the vacuum they've created by getting tough , very tough.
The Gulf monarchies are in for a long decade of pain from an angry citizenry.
Russia and Iran are formenting the fight in order to distract the USA.
Russia will bargain with Greece for a Mediterranean naval base / port.
We should arrest , question , deport and/or imprison these traitors who seek to destroy the Western world by attacking our people , infrastructure and values.
We need an atheist in power and not someone beholden to religious interests.
National identity cards a must , will help deter crooks. Only they need fear it.
So many more opinions , suffice to say , we are at war and better get smart.

seafire6b
21st Feb 2015, 19:06
According to the news, two 15 year old girls and one who's 16 have flown to Turkey and are believed to be going to Syria. Police are concerned for their safety.

let's not worry about why they are going, what they are going to do, who they are going to do it to, etc....

Police are concerned for their safety - now. Air travel is the most controlled form of transport. Every single passenger - and flight crew is a suspected terrorist, and yet three unaccompanied school children can take a flight to a terrorist hot spot, and not raise any concerns.

can the systems in place not flag suspicious travellers, BEFORE they travel?
My bold above.

That's the point, when these three girls departed they weren't suspicious, and doubtless presented "no threat" when they passed through security.

As far as I've experienced, there's no longer any overt UK border control for departures. You simply check in, go through security, buy your duty free (or not) and then board the aircraft. No longer any Immigration Officers to look at you whilst flicking through your passport, then smile and bid you bon voyage.

I'd assume - hope! - that the airlines' check-in systems have some passport-related interface with a No-fly list or a Home Office stop-list etc, but there was no-one to challenge or query why these three misguided youngsters were travelling. Perhaps even less suspicious if not all checking-in together.
As said here earlier, you get what you pay for.

Enjoy your holiday girls, don't hurry back home will you?

victor tango
21st Feb 2015, 19:35
Fox....
You were right

Wasn't it an American President that said about some conflict:

"Speak quietly, but carry a big stick"

This is the ONLY way to deal with them, or they just laugh at your seeming impotence.

Busdude
21st Feb 2015, 19:49
Would they qualify for a Darwin Award, should the inevitable happen? I don't wish them harm, and hope they make it home safely. But causing your death through stupid actions is a stipulation of the award I believe.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
21st Feb 2015, 19:54
"Speak softly, and carry a big stick" - Teddy Roosevelt. It was his way of describing how foreign policy should be done.

Teddy was all in favour of intelligent forethought well in advance of any potential crisis. Something which our Dear Leaders seemed to be in complete want of prior to the emergence of ISIS. This is primarily because they weren't, and still aren't, prepared to admit that the handling of Iraq was completely f#cked up from the start. And it went downhill from there. When PR meets reality, reality always wins.

However, since the stick-waving wasn't done, it's now time to use the big stick. Unfortunately, again due to lack of forethought, the big stick is now a medium-sized whisk-thingy, and not really suited for the job. At the back of the closet, there is always the F#ck-off Big Stick. We shall see.

meadowrun
21st Feb 2015, 19:59
How about this? Their parents should have held onto their passports as they were underage. Idiots.


On another note - Apparently the most desperate sourcing by ISIS currently is for the blue pills.

Carbon Bootprint
21st Feb 2015, 20:00
Yep, Teddy Roosevelt is one of the few politicians and others of the ilk who I respect, and in his case, even idolise. Fox has it right, indeed, but I can't see anything changing on this front given the current environment.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
21st Feb 2015, 20:14
Let's be brutal, the UK Government has set up a PC state where the most untouchable group is muslims, especially female muslims. Now that action is needed against that group, the entire system is screwed.

Parents of three runaway British 'jihadi' brides beg them to come home - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11427093/Parents-of-three-runaway-British-jihadi-brides-beg-them-to-come-home.html)

“It needs every school, every university, every college, every community to recognise they have a role to play. We all have a role to play in stopping people from having their minds poisoned by this appalling death cult.”
David Cameron

Well Mr Cameron, try banning a muslim speaker from your school and you'll be suspended on the spot. You set this mess up, and the blame is entirely on you.

RatherBeFlying
21st Feb 2015, 20:23
Zana Muhsen and her sister were British schoolgirls who their father sold into marriage in Yemen at the ages of 15 and 13.

On her return to the UK, she wrote the book Sold. The translation Vendues is better written.

She attempted criminal and civil actions against her father, which were forestalled by diplomatic leger de main:mad:

Her book should be required reading for any starry eyed young girl dreaming of living according to Allah's precepts.

Let's just say the crime will be the punishment :E

Fox3WheresMyBanana
21st Feb 2015, 20:49
Oh, the irony. DC sets up a system where the middle-aged white male is seen as the problem, then wonders why everyone ignores and hates him.

G-CPTN
21st Feb 2015, 22:48
OMG!

BBC R5 reporting that UK Security Forces knew that the girl already in Syria had contacted the girls encouraging them to 'join the jihad'.

UK's security services had "serious questions to answer".
"Aqsa's social media has been monitored since she disappeared over a year ago, yet despite alleged contact between the girls and Aqsa, they failed to stop them from leaving the UK to Turkey, a staging post for Syria.

From:- BBC News - 'Syria-bound' London girls: Please come home, families plead (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31568241)

eticket
27th Mar 2015, 17:08
The Daily Express claims to have some information about one of the fathers:

Islamic State bride's dad who blamed everyone else caught at banned terror group rally | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/566791/Islamic-State-bride-dad-blamed-everyone-else-banned-terrorist-group)

Natstrackalpha
28th Mar 2015, 16:48
They ask all chicks to bring loads of condoms with them. That'll nip IS in the bud then won't it.

reynoldsno1
29th Mar 2015, 02:10
Daddy is circled on the right. Lee Rigby's killer on the left

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/27/21/270F7F6700000578-0-image-a-6_1427492279808.jpg

Daddy again ...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/27/21/27098C4500000578-3013703-Vicious_In_2012_Abase_Hussen_left_marched_at_the_head_of_a_v iole-a-1_1427491626936.jpg

SOPS
29th Mar 2015, 04:05
So I assume they will be making this guy apologise to everyone, and the deporting him and his family as quickly as possible.

Lantern10
29th Mar 2015, 04:13
In a sane world you would be right SOPS. In fact I would deport everyone at that rally.

G-CPTN
1st Sep 2015, 23:23
So, acolytes of Anjem Choudary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anjem_Choudary) decide to leave Britain for Syria - yet the 'authorities' stop them in Turkey:-

Waltham Forest family 'heading for Syria' detained - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34119044)

What next? What right is there to stop them from their goal?

Should we pay for their onward travel?

Andy_S
2nd Sep 2015, 08:12
Should we pay for their onward travel?

No. If they're prepared to pay to reach their caliphate, why should we offer them any additional assistance?

I don't understand why we're trying so hard to stop these people from travelling to Syria. Just let them go. Good riddance.

chuks
2nd Sep 2015, 08:26
The problem is that they shall return!

Germany is having a national freak-out about this right now, trying to decide how to deal with young returnees. Of course it's better for German citizens not to stay with this or that group of Islamist terrorists, but on the other hand, what might they get up to back home again, released into the general population? It's easy to imagine someone sent back as a sort of double agent, professing to be disillusioned but actually plotting some act of terror.

If the message were to be, "Come home, little Abdul; Mummy and Daddy miss you very much. Oh, by the way, when you do get home, we are going to lock you up!" then that might be a bit confusing.

SMT Member
2nd Sep 2015, 09:44
To enter Turkey you need to obtain a visa in advance. This has to be done on line at the Turkish embassy website costing $20 US.

Not correct. Most European nationals do not need a visa to enter Turkey, those who do - including UK citizens - can obtain visa on arrival. I've no idea what the price is, except it's not very much, as I'm one of those who don't need a visa to enter.

k3k3
2nd Sep 2015, 11:00
Two years ago a Turkish visa for a UK citizen bought at the airport on arrival cost 15.

radeng
2nd Sep 2015, 18:46
3 years ago, it was 10 for a UK citizen, 15 for EU except France and Italy who got it free, and $20 for a US citizen.

chuks
3rd Sep 2015, 04:58
You need to check in advance for visa requirements because they change rather often. In my case, as a US citizen, I had to get a visa for a trip to Istanbul and then show it to the nice lady at the airline check-in desk, but that was done a year-and-a-half ago.

I got the visa on-line and then printed it out, which was no problem, and I think it only cost about $20.

tony draper
3rd Sep 2015, 07:51
I think we should start up a charity that will pay their fares out to Syria, looks like we are going to have a few hundred thousand more friends of the prophet inbound,oh goody.