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N707ZS
20th Feb 2015, 16:54
Found this bit of Dads army stuff whilst reading the Manston thread.

BBC News - How to spot a Russian bomber (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-31537705)

airship
20th Feb 2015, 17:40
Concerning Wednesday's incident (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31530840) when RAF Typhoons "escorted" a couple of Russian (ahem) TU-95MS 'Bear H' bombers off the coast of Cornwall, I understand that the same Russian bombers were also intercepted by French Rafales or Mirages. Does anyone know who (French Air Force or RAF) got there first...? :E

rgbrock1
20th Feb 2015, 17:51
airship:

These Bears were also "escorted" by the Danes and Germans as well. Perhaps not the same Bears but TU-95's nonetheless.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
20th Feb 2015, 17:54
Look at Airship's link and go to the video near the end, with the Mirage reference. Fascinating view out of the Bear of the props. Because of the camera's scan (strobing) the props can be seen in slow motion (and the blades look bent) but just see what a massively coarse pitch they are set at! They are almost feathered!

The Bear is faster than a Nimrod apparently. It must be the fastest turbo prop in the world and with such highly swept wings presumably flies at a high subsonic mach number. Anyone know its cruise mach?

Fox3WheresMyBanana
20th Feb 2015, 18:13
M0.80 ISTR

Back in the day, there were 8 variants of the Bear (and 9 Badgers, etc), and one had to know all of them.

rgbrock1
20th Feb 2015, 18:29
Fox3:

It is quite understandable why someone like yourself had to know the profile of the Soviet air fleet menace! However, and for reasons which remain elusive to me still, we as lowly US Army infantryman - prowling the fields and forests of the Fulda Gap - also had to know those same identities. Not much an Infantryman can do against a Backfire bomber. Except maybe to run away as fast as you can. (You can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man.) :}

G-CPTN
20th Feb 2015, 18:43
The ability of someone on the ground to identify an 'alien' aircraft is useful to be able to report back.

Back in the days as an Air cadet, I was also trained in aircraft recognition - something that came in useful many years later when I was able to identify a low-flying Sukhoi 22 which was on an exchange exercise of the Polish Airforce.

We used to have an Observer Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Observer_Corps) that operated as the eyes and ears of the defence forces. They had no weaponry, just reporting ability.

Don_Apron
20th Feb 2015, 18:52
Don't know about spotting bears, as you can hear them then feel them coming. The noise inside these crates must be dreadful!!

Krystal n chips
20th Feb 2015, 19:06
" The Bear is faster than a Nimrod apparently"

Gosh !.....erm, could this be because said Nimrod is no longer flying perhaps ?.

Stroboscopic effect...rather than, strobes.....the latter are flashing lights thingy's wot are located on the wing tips and top and bottom of the aeroplane.....one would have thunk only a pilot would have known this.

Anyway, we can relax, because, we have an eminently qualified observer in Cornwall for all future incursions......possibly a covert role in deep cover and location for many years now.....care to" neither confirm nor deny"....always "loved" this offering when uttered in any context, not simply M.o.D speak.....TTN ?...;)

VP959
20th Feb 2015, 19:26
SSD wrote:

The Bear is faster than a Nimrod apparently. It must be the fastest turbo prop in the world and with such highly swept wings presumably flies at a high subsonic mach number. Anyone know its cruise mach?

They used to slow down and cruise alongside Nimrods back in the Cold War era, though. I can well remember doing passes down either side and waving at the Ruskies, who always waved back on one or two occasions when we came across them doing pretty much what they are doing now.

It seems we're descending back into that era again, with the Russians seeming to be behaving pretty much as they did all through the soviet era.

I suspect we may rue the day when we assumed we could cut back on everything Cold War associated when the former Soviet Union collapsed. I remember arguing (ineffectively) at the time that the Russians would probably retain a far greater proportion of their military capability than we were so keen to throw away to save money.

rgbrock1
20th Feb 2015, 19:32
VP wrote:

I suspect we may rue the day when we assumed we could cut back on everything Cold War associated when the former Soviet Union collapsed.

A-10 Warthogs are being re-deployed to Europe as per the Pentagon. Initially a squadron will be sent with more coming afterwards. :ok:

con-pilot
20th Feb 2015, 19:38
The Bear is faster than a Nimrod apparently. It must be the fastest turbo prop in the world and with such highly swept wings presumably flies at a high subsonic mach number. Anyone know its cruise mach?

Couldn't find a Mach cruise number for them, just the max speed of 575 mph. So taking a WAG I'd guess about .74 to .76 Mach for a average cruise number.

What ever it is, it's damn fast for a turboprop.

rgbrock1
20th Feb 2015, 19:43
That is indeed fast for a turboprop. Especially compared to the C-130 whose top speed, at 20,000', is just over 360mph.

con-pilot
20th Feb 2015, 19:48
That is indeed fast for a turboprop. Especially compared to the C-130 whose top speed, at 20,000', is just over 360mph.

I've heard that it is even noisier inside than a C-130, if that is possible.

MG23
20th Feb 2015, 19:53
I've heard that it is even noisier inside than a C-130, if that is possible.

Could have been worse. At least they cancelled the nuclear-powered Bear when they realized the crews would die of radiation poisoning after a few flights.

rgbrock1
20th Feb 2015, 19:58
Con:

The noise inside of a C-130 is incredible. If we didn't wear ear protection we'd have gone deaf in no time. Not exactly a ride known for comfort, that's for sure.

Wingswinger
20th Feb 2015, 20:53
I once flew in the back of a C130 from Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota to Winnipeg, Winnipeg to Goose Bay, Goose Bay to Keflavik and Keflavik to RAF Marham. My ears rang and my sternum vibrated for a week afterwards. I reckon it's the reason I have tinitus.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
20th Feb 2015, 21:07
UK-Sardinia via Germany in a Fat Albert. I was recommended to use the Deep Inebriation technique to survive it. Worked! As far as I remember, the aircrews used the same tactic. ;)

Tankertrashnav
20th Feb 2015, 21:21
The Bear is faster than a Nimrod apparently.

Chap I knew who was a Nimrod nav was telling me a while back that once when in loose formation on a Bear, the guy called them up on their frequency and just said "Hey - Neemrod" - then opened everything up and left them standing.

K & C - I will certainly be keeping my eyes peeled in the coming days. I may even go up to Bodmin to get a refresher course on Russian aircraft recognition.

Russian bomber flew inland over Cornwall, witness claims | UK news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/19/russian-bomber-flew-inland-cornwall-uk-airspace-witness)

(Its in The Grauniad - it must be true ;))

Seldomfitforpurpose
20th Feb 2015, 21:27
Con:

The noise inside of a C-130 is incredible. If we didn't wear ear protection we'd have gone deaf in no time. Not exactly a ride known for comfort, that's for sure.

15 years ish of Loadmasterin on them I can testify to the accuracy of that :ok:

I wore a headset or helmet at all times but still now suffer with the kind of deafness that means I can't distinguish conversation etc in a noisy room or bar, feckin awful :(

VP959
20th Feb 2015, 21:30
UK-Sardinia via Germany in a Fat Albert. I was recommended to use the Deep Inebriation technique to survive it. Worked! As far as I remember, the aircrews used the same tactic.

1974.

Evac from Akrotiri to Gib in a Fat Albert full of Bloodhounds that were being taken out of Cyprus in case the Turks got them. We'd been camped on the football field at Akrotiri for a couple of weeks whilst all the families were evacced back to the UK. We'd run out of beer before the first week was out, because the Turks had shelled the Keo factory in Limmasol on day one of the invasion. Luckily my boss and I had saved a few bottles, which we consumed during the evac flight to Gib to make it bearable. Sadly we were not allowed out of the fold down seats to dump ballast, because were were going low level (and hence bumpy the whole way, plus the loadie was arsie because he'd spotted we had beer).

As soon as we stopped at Gib we were out like a shot for a pee, followed by that smile that comes from having dumped ballast AND having got out of a right bloody mess on Cyprus.

hiflymk3
20th Feb 2015, 22:33
With these Russian bombers in close proximity to UK airspace, is it a case of Bears hitting the 'hoods?

Windy Militant
20th Feb 2015, 23:35
This brings to mind the old story of the guy who was on noise complaints at a station with fast pointy things during a low level exercise.
Ring ring "Hello yes RAF XXXXXX, yes and you want to complain about aircraft flying low over your house, yes they are noisy aren't they. May I ask you if they had Red Stars painted on them,yes that's right red stars,well we have to make sure that they are ours not theirs before we can action a complaint".....click brrrrrrrr.

porch monkey
21st Feb 2015, 09:46
You think a C-130 is noisy? One word. Caribou.:eek:

TEEEJ
22nd Feb 2015, 21:21
Tankertrashnav wrote

(Its in The Grauniad - it must be true )

Amazing what the media will publish. Silly woman! If you run Flight Radar 24 back you will see what aircraft she witnessed. Classic case of poor aircraft recognition. It was the Voyager tanker up in support of the Typhoons.

The playback should still be available for a few days on their database.

Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! (http://www.flightradar24.com/2015-02-18/17:38/12x/QZ68/58ecddf)

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/nv54e7dbf9.jpg

fitliker
23rd Feb 2015, 03:32
Have they flown any TU 160s close to any ADIZ yet ?

ORAC
23rd Feb 2015, 07:21
Back in the 1980s when uneducated fans were the research fad at the big engine manufacturers, the QRA F4s were, presumably at the behest of RR, fitted with a mike hanging from the navs canopy and a tape recorder. When scrambled to intercept a Bear they had to close up and sit in the prop wash and record about 30mins worth of noise. Presumably analysis of the harmonics would then prove of benefit to the boffins.

By all reports it was both loud and caused some internal strange feelings......

p.s. My longest trips in the back of the C-130 were AKR-LM (I used the DI technique) and - in support of a set with the mobile UKCAOC, from LY-BRU, load with spare engines and GE, and then BRU-Goose Bay; followed by the reverse 2 weeks later. Unfortunately DI was not available prior on either....

unstable load
23rd Feb 2015, 09:39
An ex-colleague flew the Aermacchi Impala in the SAAF and he was sent out with another Imp out investigate a suspicious radar target and they pulled up one on each wingtip of one of the big 4 engine prop-jobs for a "show of force"...
The Russians tolerated it for a while then simply buggered off into the distance.:}:suspect:

tartare
23rd Feb 2015, 09:52
Would be interesting to see silhouettes scaled to size though.
Foxhound is far too big, as is Blackjack etc.
Or am I wrong?
Mig 25 was a helluva large jet.

BARKINGMAD
23rd Feb 2015, 21:39
How to spot a Russian bomber???

First you call up #11Group and ask them to ring #8AEW Sqn at Lossie to bring 2 Shackleton AEWs up to 5 minutes readiness.

I actually heard the Wg Cdr i/c on the blower to some :mad:head down the "hole" in a Sector Ops centre somewhere trying to explain how the coolant would boil over etc etc............

Aaaaah, halcyon days, but the Shack Preservation Society are plannning to get one airborne so it's back to the Cold War, chaps?!