BOAC Comet 4 memories and memorabilia [Archive]

Sarahchambers

19th Feb 2015, 14:54

I am the co-custodian of the Comet 4 G-APDB currently on display at the Imperal War Museum Duxford, and owned by the Duxford Aviation Society.
I am looking for any stories from anyone who crewed the Comet 4's, in order to enhance the experience of the visitors.
I am also looking for a BOAC stewardess uniform size 12-14 that could be worn on major flying days to meet and greet everyone when all the re-enactment groups are on display.
Would like to establish a complete list of what was provided by BOAC for their passengers in the late 1950's
Really what I am trying to say, is I want to bring alive the story of the golden age of jet travel with interesting facts to enhance families visits to what is a static exhibit.

victor tango

19th Feb 2015, 17:08

All credit to you Sarah yours is a sound idea, as ex 60,s cabin crew (Not BA)
so if I can help PM me.

You might try what I just did on this thread.
Go to search and type in BOAC comet cabin crew 1950s, or your choice of wording, and have a good look at what comes up.

Theres a fund of information in past posts on PPrune forums which is wonderful archive !!!

Preon

21st Feb 2015, 08:33

Hi Sarah,
Re your search for BOAC uniforms.
There is a website BA-Touchdown for retired BA staff many of its readers will have worked for BOAC I'm sure there are plenty of spare outfits still kept by the retired community.

Flitefone

21st Feb 2015, 11:24

Sarah

Great idea, e-bay is your friend, save a search using BOAC+ Comet, you will be amazed what appears from time to time. delcampe can also be useful.

FF

aluminium persuader

22nd Feb 2015, 21:44

My dad was BOAC cabin crew on the Comet IVs. What sort of things are you looking for?

Sarahchambers

26th Feb 2015, 08:32

Would like to establish the China used on the Comet around 1958 jet crossing and also the glasswear, plus cutlery. Size of trays used for meals in first class was it A4 size or normal tea tray size, was there a tray cloth? I want to put together an exhibit of tray setting as used on 4th October 1958.
Would like to confirm configuration of galleys. There was one cockpit end we are missing the LEC refrigeration unit, but where were all the China etc stores?
How did the foot/leg rest attach to the Slumbereze seats? Did they slide under or were they detached and stored if so where? Yellow pure wool blankets were provided together with multi coloured head pillows where were these stored? The is a fairly small cupboard at the rear of aircraft between the 2 rear toilets what was stored in there, looks like there was a small hanging space too.
There seems to be some conflicting information on class of travel offered during 1958, 42 passengers, front half Monach (treated like a king)? Back half first class OR front first and back tourist class.
I have established Elizabeth Arden provided toiletries for the Ladies to use, can you confirm it was Yardley for men any other products provided?

Sarahchambers

18th May 2017, 19:44

i am compiling a file on the BOAC and DAN AIR staff that flew G-APDB. A description of their lives whilst flying the aircraft. Their career histories. If anyone can help please.

Preon

20th May 2017, 14:09

Sarah .
An ex Dan - Air friend has suggested you might get something from:

http://www.danairremembered.com/index.html

https://en-gb.facebook.com/danairstaffassociation/

http:www.danairstaffassociation.uk/news-1.html

The AvgasDinosaur

21st May 2017, 16:34

JEM60

21st May 2017, 21:10

I cannot help you with your search. I was a pax on this aircraft once, and I would like to congratulate you and your team on the beautiful way this lovely aircraft has been preserved at Duxford.

Wander00

22nd May 2017, 16:45

I visited the DeH Museum last year and was surprised at the small cross section of the Comet fuselage - reminded me of Concorde

Preon

25th May 2017, 20:49

An ex airline colleague suggested you write to monthly aviation titles the Aeroplane and Flypast for assistance or they might run an article on your particular part in conserving the DH Comet.

BEagle

26th May 2017, 07:44

Wander00 wrote: I visited the DeH Museum last year and was surprised at the small cross section of the Comet fuselage - reminded me of Concorde.

I flew back from Mahon once on one of Dan Air's Comets - I'm sure that we boarded on the RHS as I recall the door being very small. But the seats and seating pitch were fine! I've only been in a Concorde once (at Brooklands), but the fuselage cross-section didn't seem that small compared with, say, an A320.

DANbudgieman

29th May 2017, 10:06

Wander00 wrote:

I flew back from Mahon once on one of Dan Air's Comets - I'm sure that we boarded on the RHS as I recall the door being very small.

All the doors, forward and aft, port and starboard were very small. I am about 5ft 7in and always had to stoop when entering or exiting.

Also the flight deck, forward galley and first couple of rows of seats could always bet on getting wet when the aircraft started its descent. This was due to all the condensation flowing forward to the lowest point and providing an impromptu shower to all and sundry.

tonytales

29th May 2017, 17:52

Only was near Comets on a few occasions when both of Aeronaves de Mexico's Brttanias were down and they subbed Mexicana Comets to fly to KJFK. Remember they had a leather padded head protector that swung out from inside to cover the top of the entrance door frame. Being 6'4" tall I appreciated the protection. Also noticed the baggage holds were very small, the fly-away kit filling up much of the forward bag hold. Caravelle (Varig) had the same problem of course.

WHBM

29th May 2017, 21:12

Best Comet story I heard.

On Dan-Air holiday flights, in the old days (of course), having the kids up to the flight deck while in the cruise was standard stuff.

Small boys would regularly ask "Does it have machine guns ?". To which the skipper would reply "Well, it does actually. Step forward here and press that for a moment", pointing to some innocuous switch on the yoke. The boy would hesitantly do so.

Meanwhile the flight engineer, seated right behind them, has moved his finger over the Stick Shaker Test Switch. Boy presses switch. FE operates Stick Shaker Test. Thump-Thump-Thump in the yoke. Boy is amazed. Crew smile.

Now on one occasion they were following another aircraft visible above them in the airway. Skipper extends his invitation to "See that aircraft ahead. See if you can aim at that". Small boy does as usual. Meanwhile the aircraft ahead by chance passes into a slightly different air mass and starts visibly jet-trailing where it had not before. Skipper says nonchalantly "Oh, there, good shot. You got him". But the boy is panic-stricken, and runs back into the cabin yelling.

bafanguy

30th May 2017, 08:13

This isn't 100% related to your original request for info but it's interesting:

360° Virtual Reality tour of the Cockpit of a de Havilland Comet by Ken McBride (http://www.kenmcbride.com/National-Museum-of-Flight/comet/)

olympus

30th May 2017, 11:33

bafanguy

30th May 2017, 12:24

A bit of effort here:

de Havilland D.H. 106 Comet Mk. 4C | The Museum of Flight (http://www.museumofflight.org/aircraft/de-havilland-dh-106-comet-mk-4c)

deanm

30th May 2017, 12:32

As a RAF kid in the 70s, I flew out of Tengah to Kia Tak on a RAFTC Comet 4C.
There was only me & one other passenger!
I distinctly remember looking back through the cabin and being amazed at how much the floor & seats seemed to flex!
Dean

DaveReidUK

30th May 2017, 14:19

Flew NBO-ADD-NBO on EAA's Comets quite often in the early seventies. Didn't think much of it at the time but now I'm glad I had the chance to fly on such an historic aircraft.

Do any of EAA's Comets still exist anywhere?

No.

Dan-Air bought all seven of the EAA Comet 4 fleet, but only operated four of them with the other three being used for spares.

Five of them were scrapped at its Lasham base in the '70s, with one soldiering on till 1980 before meeting the same fate, and one being damaged beyond repair in a wheels-up landing at Newcastle in 1970.

Wodrick

30th May 2017, 16:05

Returning to doors, the Pax entry doors were nominally the doors (fwd and aft) on the port side. The Stbd side doors were smaller and, in Dan Air service were used as catering doors as they opened at the galleys. The rear door on the Stbd side also gave access to the Dome Freight area, which, in modern terminology would be a bulk cargo hold. It was a small area between the aft galley and the aft pressure bulkhead.

That Museum of Flight restoration is beautiful, I've never seen a Comet in that condition !

Allan Lupton

30th May 2017, 16:42

Yes the stbd doors were smaller and while I'm sure we called the forward one the Crew Door I can't remember what we called the rear one. In 1958 as a dH apprentoid, one of the jobs I had was assisting the man who fitted those doors so I really should know.

Wodrick

30th May 2017, 18:02

Senior Management who was Cabin Staff 1971 to Dan ceased flying them agrees with your Fwd Crew Door but just referred to the aft stbd door as an emergency exit, if it helps.

maxred

30th May 2017, 20:07

One memorable flight in a BEA Comet, went tech in flight, diverted to Madrid. Continued journey next day, on an Iberia DC-8, to Heathrow. Vanguard back to Glasgow. Now that is nostalgia.....

gruntie

31st May 2017, 04:57

Dan-Air bought all seven of the EAA Comet 4 fleet, but only operated four of them with the other three being used for spares.

EAA had 3 Comet 4s, VP-KPJ, KPK and KRL: the first 2 delivered in 1960 and the latter in 1962 (the last 4 built, amongst the production of 4Cs, which creates confusion to this day)

All 3 were sold to Dan-Air at the end of 1970. Additionally, 3 Comets were chartered from Dan-Air during 1970 (and one from BOAC for a year or two in the mid-60s) but they had all gone by early 1971: presumably coinciding with the arrival of the DC9s (and the final VC10). All were given African registrations, so maybe they had EAA livery too, who knows: at least one of them apparently didn't.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4203/34966235666_8350f1040c_b.jpg

DaveReidUK

31st May 2017, 06:59

EAA had 3 Comet 4s, VP-KPJ, KPK and KRL: the first 2 delivered in 1960 and the latter in 1962 (the last 4 built, amongst the production of 4Cs, which creates confusion to this day)

All 3 were sold to Dan-Air at the end of 1970. Additionally, 3 Comets were chartered from Dan-Air during 1970 (and one from BOAC for a year or two in the mid-60s) but they had all gone by early 1971: presumably coinciding with the arrival of the DC9s (and the final VC10). All were given African registrations, so maybe they had EAA livery too, who knows: at least one of them apparently didn't.

Yes, I stand corrected, of the three that were leased from Dan-Air, the last (5Y-AMT) definitely didn't wear EAA livery and I suspect that the others didn't either, given their short leases.

The fourth, leased from BOAC, did and was the one that Dan-Air later wrote off at Newcastle:

http://www.mccrow.org.uk/eastafrica/East_African_Airways/NRB_EMBEAAronleese.jpg

tanghao

31st May 2017, 07:05

I visited the DeH Museum last year and was surprised at the small cross section of the Comet fuselage - reminded me of Concorde

Planemike

31st May 2017, 09:50

Yes, I stand corrected, of the three that were leased from Dan-Air, the last (5Y-AMT) definitely didn't wear EAA livery and I suspect that the others didn't either, given their short leases.

The fourth, leased from BOAC, did and was the one that Dan-Air later wrote off at Newcastle:

http://www.mccrow.org.uk/eastafrica/East_African_Airways/NRB_EMBEAAronleese.jpg

I too had a look at the comings and goings of the EAAC Comets. Anything but simple to follow. As far as I can see none of the original three ever carried British registrations, so that looks as though they never flew with Danair.

VictorGolf

31st May 2017, 11:30

I guess that photograph was taken from the "waving base" at Nairobi Embakasi where I spent many happy hours, Tusker in hand, watching the comings and goings of some very strange airlines. It's also good to see the Comet and the VC-10, along with the engines on the Friendship, representing British engineering. It was always good to see the takeoff performance of the British aircraft compared to the Boeing 707/720s which did seem to struggle a bit at midday on a hot day. Ahh de Havilland......

treadigraph

31st May 2017, 11:46

VictorGolf

31st May 2017, 12:25

Somewhere in the loft I have a very similar shot taken with my newly acquired telephoto lens (bought on Kenyatta Avenue). A little cropping might give the "low-level" aspect but I agree the "waving base" was at the first storey level. On the other hand it could have been taken by an EAA employee at ground level. Whatever it is certainly a reminder of some happy days. Mzuri sana and all that.

Planemike

31st May 2017, 12:42

Certianly ties in with my memories of Embakasi in the early 70s, though I thought the viewing point was somewhat higher! (And I was much smaller!).

PS, did you know W*th*rsp**ns are selling bottled Tusker in the UK?

Seem to remember there were a couple of levels but don't take that as gospel, over 50 years back. !!!

Bought some Tusker in Tesco just up the road about a year back.

gruntie

31st May 2017, 13:06

A depressing pic I found somewhere of the 3 original EAA Comets in various stages of dismemberment.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2696/32794130242_9a9eed7543_c.jpg

Tusker is available from the South American River site, or from an excellent duka in Raynes Park, if you're in the area. I don't think Tescos do it any more.

Planemike

31st May 2017, 13:26

Have seen this picture before. Think it is of the original three EAAC Comets wearing their post colonial registrations. Sad to see their end but should be remembered those three a/c had received intensive use over more than ten years. Backbone of the long distance fleet until the VC10s appeared. They of course were only just "run in" by the time EAAC collapsed in 1977. The RAF then went on to squeeze another nearly 35 years of life out of them. Well used a/c, or what??

DaveReidUK

31st May 2017, 16:07

A depressing pic I found somewhere of the 3 original EAA Comets in various stages of dismemberment.

Zooming in would suggest that they are, from L to R: 5X-AAO, 5Y-AAA and 5H-AAF.

Judging from the various aerofoils missing, it looks like they are still being used as Christmas trees, with the breaker's axe to follow at a later stage.

bafanguy

31st May 2017, 20:27

We had one more Comet here in the US: N999WA (not sure of the pre-US pedigree...N number deregistered)

It's gone now after sitting in KORD for many years. There's quite an interesting story of it's life here but I'm not authorized (or qualified) to tell it. Maybe someone will come along...

DaveReidUK

31st May 2017, 20:58

We had one more Comet here in the US: N999WA (not sure of the pre-US pedigree...N number deregistered)

It was a former Mexicana aircraft.

It's gone now after sitting in KORD for many years. There's quite an interesting story of it's life here but I'm not authorized (or qualified) to tell it.Go on, just the bare essentials ... :O

bafanguy

31st May 2017, 21:13

Dave,

It was an ignominious end for a grand airplane that flew in to KORD. I couldn't do the story justice.

Not trying to be coy but the story deserves proper telling. You'd just accuse me of making it up anyway. ;-)))

https://www.flickr.com/photos/paul-thallon/8585611355/in/photolist-e5Fv8Z-buRmvn-axJWem-fqXGpD-7busnE

WHBM

1st Jun 2017, 00:15

Dan-Air bought most of the retired Comets at scrap price, not only to put them into service but to use them for parts. Most were flown back to Lasham for stripping, others were dismantled at their last base. I believe that photo of the three EAA hulks will be at Lasham.

We had one more Comet here in the US: N999WA (not sure of the pre-US pedigree...N number deregistered)Actually there were three US-registered Comets, the three former Mexicana 4Cs, sold when retired as N777WA, N888WA and N999WA. They did indeed then follow convoluted but separate lives through various obscure owners, never really being used. 777 ended up at a zoo back in Mexico and was broken up a few years back, 888 is the one now at Seattle, and 999 was derelict at O'Hare for some 20 years but scrapped in the 1990s.

I'm not quite clear how they got onto the US register given that the flight deck/forward section is also the design used on the original Caravelles (it was designed, and the first few were actually built under subcontract, by De Havilland), which the FAA rejected when United ordered their 20 Caravelles, on the grounds of insufficient visibility for the crew, and Sud had to re-engineer it with larger windows. Looking at the photo of the aircraft at Seattle, above, I can sort of see the FAA's point.

India Four Two

1st Jun 2017, 05:58

http://www.museumofflight.org/user_area/content_media/raw/TMOFdeHavillandDH106CometMk4C_atPaineField_001_web.jpg?w=126 0&h=640&mode=crop&anchor=middlecenter&scale=both
That Museum of Flight restoration is beautiful, I've never seen a Comet in that condition !

Wodrick,

I think that photo was taken prior to the current restoration effort. I remember reading that after years on the fire dump, Boeing, to their credit, did a cosmetic respray on an airframe that was rapidly falling apart.

I visited the MoF Restoration Centre during my "Grand Tour" two years ago. They are doing a marvellous job, but it's 22 years and counting!

More details and photos here:

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/568983-road-trip-part-2-santa-monica-calgary.html#post9149296

Incidentally, in my opening sentence of the post above, where I was told: "If you go out onto the ramp, don't go beyond the nose of the 727", I didn't realize at the time, that this was not just any old 727, but the prototype! It subsequently made one last flight in March 2016, from Paine Field to Boeing Field.

sCDvcSe088k

Bergerie1

1st Jun 2017, 06:49

gruntie

1st Jun 2017, 08:40

.....and BOAC never had any 4Cs. This one is going to be a problem in the future.

Bergerie1

1st Jun 2017, 10:33

gruntie,
Agreed. But they could still get the colour scheme right.

Planemike

1st Jun 2017, 10:39

Only one better would be to have decked it out in the original EAAC livery.....but there I am biased !!

DaveReidUK

1st Jun 2017, 10:50

Only one better would be to have decked it out in the original EAAC livery.....but there I am biased !!

Though that would arguably be equally unauthentic as EAA didn't have 4Cs either. :O

It would look rather nice in its original livery:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5451/17611021285_3b7d5b05a7_b.jpg

WHBM

1st Jun 2017, 11:12

It would look rather nice in its original livery

Just to double-nitpick here, that's not the original livery, Mexicana received their 4Cs in 1960, then in 1962 they entered into a charter agreement with Aerovias Guest who had a once weekly schedule with Constellations to Lisbon, Madrid and Paris, which had become uncompetitive by then. Guest were also out of money, so the charter, and the dual titles on one aircraft, were arranged. I believe Guest crews were trained and they may have put the Comet on the first leg of the flight, Mexico City to Miami, but Guest went under before the jet service to Europe could start.

I wonder where that Mexicana Comet is, being handled by Pan Am. They had been the owners of Mexicana from the 1920s right through to the ordering of the Comets, which must have been under close scrutiny by Juan Trippe, and who had ordered the abortive Comet 2, but the carrier was nationalised just before the aircraft were delivered.

Jhieminga

1st Jun 2017, 13:10

But they have painted the blue line too low on the flight deck windows. The correct livery has no white on the glazing bars. I hope they have corrected this now.

https://www.google.fr/search?q=boac+comet&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhs8CqhZzUAhVPJFAKHXGpA6MQiR4IlQE&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=rs172E5sD2mVEM:

I cannot find a photo that shows the front of the window glazing, but the top edge of the cheatline touches the top of the aftmost cockpit window, that appears to be correct judging by this photo:
http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/115/115015_big.jpg

Edit: This one is better for a comparison with the original image:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c7/c2/55/c7c255e0e522f9af77afbc523ed5fdcd.jpg

DaveReidUK

1st Jun 2017, 13:21

Just to double-nitpick here, that's not the original livery, Mexicana received their 4Cs in 1960, then in 1962 they entered into a charter agreement with Aerovias Guest who had a once weekly schedule with Constellations to Lisbon, Madrid and Paris, which had become uncompetitive by then. Guest were also out of money, so the charter, and the dual titles on one aircraft, were arranged. I believe Guest crews were trained and they may have put the Comet on the first leg of the flight, Mexico City to Miami, but Guest went under before the jet service to Europe could start.

That sounds about right - the photo is reportedly dated May 1961.

There is a later version of the livery with a solid blue cheat line which the Comets also wore, plus various photos of models featuring the stylised "M" on the tail, though I can't find any evidence that the Comets actually wore that.

WHBM

1st Jun 2017, 14:00

This one is better for a comparison with the original image:Appears to be flying east over the River Thames, just where the Thames Barrier is nowadays.

The AvgasDinosaur

1st Jun 2017, 14:10

The museum of flight do / used to do a nice limited edition print of a Mexicana 4C over the mountains by Robert Bailey countersigned by John Cunningham.
Hope it helps
David

Bergerie1

1st Jun 2017, 16:04

Jhieminga,
Nice picture - thanks. Much better than the one I found. And the Duxford Comet does not even have the correct colour scheme on the wing tanks.

India Four Two

1st Jun 2017, 20:47

Appears to be flying east over the River Thames, just where the Thames Barrier is nowadays.

WHBM,
I agree. The left pinion tank is pointing towards Royal Victoria Dock and the open space, with the distinctive avenue of trees, below the right pinion tank, is Charlton Park.

bspatz

20th Apr 2018, 20:16

Of interest my wife's uncle has just written a book about the early days of the jet age based on his experience as a BOAC comet flight engineer which will shortly be available; details are at https://www.amazon.com/Venture-into-Stratosphere-Flying-Jetliners/dp/1683507932.
Having seen an advance copy it is a fascinating read for those interested in a first hand account of operating the first jetliners.

Kiwithrottlejockey

21st Apr 2018, 00:10

Appears to be flying east over the River Thames, just where the Thames Barrier is nowadays.

I've got a HUGE framed photograph of the same airframe (the first Comet 4), possibly taken on the same flight. I purchased it online from the RAF Museum Shop about two years ago and had it professionally framed in NZ native rimu wood. According to info on their website, the photograph was taken in September 1958.

de Havilland Comet 4 (G-APDA) of BOAC in flight, September 1958 - Photo Prints - 1275297 - RAF Museum (http://www.rafmuseumphotos.com/de-havilland-comet-4/print/1275297.html)

washoutt

21st Apr 2018, 09:08

Re the 4C in BOAC livery: it seems the center windshield windows are larger (i.e. higher) than other versions. Is that correct?

WHBM

21st Apr 2018, 09:29

I've got a HUGE framed photograph of the same airframe (the first Comet 4), possibly taken on the same flight.

de Havilland Comet 4 (G-APDA) of BOAC in flight, September 1958 - Photo Prints - 1275297 - RAF Museum (http://www.rafmuseumphotos.com/de-havilland-comet-4/print/1275297.html)

I would say your photo was taken about 20 seconds earlier than the one posted previously. It's just passing overhead Greenwich eastbound, Deptford with it's onetime riverside industry beneath, and the tip of the Isle of Dogs visible just ahead of the aircraft nose on the right.

The previous phote here has it passing over, among other things, the Charlton riverside plant of J Stone, while the one here now has it passing over their Deptford main plant, the two factories having been either side of Greenwich town centre. J Stone produced all sorts of industrial items, air conditioning plant, escalators, and aircraft components - including, according to their Wikipedia page, for the Comet. I wonder if they were on some sort of publicity photoshoot for the company. If so, they just got lucky with the cloud breaks.

Stone Foundries still operates at Charlton in a plant established in 1939 to produce aluminium and magnesium light alloy castings mainly for the aircraft industry,[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Stone_%26_Co#cite_note-StoneFoundries-1) having produced specialised alloy parts and aircraft propellers for the Vickers Viscount (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Viscount) and de Havilland Comet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet).[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Stone_%26_Co#cite_note-NMM-3)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Stone_%26_Co

.

Kiwithrottlejockey

6th May 2018, 00:49

In my opinion, out of all the jetliners ever produced, I reckon the Comet 4 is the one which just looks absolutely right in the looks department.

Discorde

6th May 2018, 10:30

I reckon the Comet 4 is the one which just looks absolutely right in the looks department.

As does the Caravelle (with its Comet nose section).

rog747

7th May 2018, 09:22

BOAC Comet 4
empire routes leases to flag carriers

I have seen photos of BOAC Comets with Qantas, Air Ceylon and Kuwait AW titles - were there any other Empire flag carriers that BOAC flew for with their Comet 4?
was Malayan one of them too?

BOAC Britannia and VC10's had EAAC BWIA Malayan Ghana Nigeria Air Ceylon with either stickers or titles/emblems/flags

WHBM

7th May 2018, 10:26

East African leased BOAC Comets as well, both short-term and long-term. When the BOAC fleet was withdrawn East African continued to lease in Comets when their own were on checks from Dan-Air, in the Eurpean winter - to whom they eventually sold their own fleet.

ZFT

7th May 2018, 10:26

gruntie

7th May 2018, 11:08

I thought Ghana and Nigeria VC10s were their own aircraft?

Ghana was their own: they ordered 3, operated one, leased one to MEA which was destroyed shortly afterwards at Beirut, and cancelled the third which was taken up by British United.

Nigeria did both: leased one from BOAC and then bought one from them, which they crashed.

East African had five Supers, never chartered or borrowed, so I don’t know how that came about. See previous post no. 26 for their Comet useage. They did charter more than one Britannia, but only one at a time. They were left in BOAC livery with the Speedbird on the tail changed to the Flying Lion, and the fuselage titles changed to ‘EAAC’ just by changing the ‘BO’.

Jhieminga

7th May 2018, 20:52

Ghana operated two until 1967, when the second one was leased to MEA with which it flew for over a year until destroyed at Beirut.
Nigeria also operated services using BOAC aircraft with stickers, almost from the first day of BOAC VC10 operations.

WHBM

7th May 2018, 21:10

Nigeria Airways (and predecessor West African) had a longstanding arrangement with BOAC to operate lightly-rebadged leased aircraft, going back to the Stratocruiser, then Britannia, Comet 4, 707 and VC-10. They then bought one of the BOAC Standard VC-10s, but it crashed only 7 weeks after delivery, and they went back to leasing.

As this is a Comet thread, here's the joint BOAC/Nigerian timetable for 1962, an interesting time as it shows all of Britannia, Comet and 707 leased to Nigerian (flight prefix WT) on London to Lagos

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/ba62/ba62-41.jpg

treadigraph

7th May 2018, 21:15

East African had five Supers, never chartered or borrowed, so I don’t know how that came about.

Just been re-reading Brian Trubshaw's auto-biography; he says East African's VC10s were repossessed by BAC/BAe for non-payment and he helped ferry them back to the UK. He happened to mention this to the right pair of RAF ears who said "they may be just what I'm looking for!"

Jhieminga

8th May 2018, 06:28

The EAA Super VC10s were not purchased outright, but were taken on in a lease-purchase deal. The delivery of the first EAA VC10 was actually delayed for an hour as not all the guarantees for the deal were in place. Indeed the remaining four VC10s were flown back to the UK when EAA folded, with Trubshaw flying along on one of the ferry flights. 5H-MMT was then used after its return to do some training flights so that Trubshaw's (and Eddie MacNamara's) VC10 type rating could be revalidated.

WHBM

8th May 2018, 07:14

Chris Scott

8th May 2018, 13:18

The Nigerian VC-10 was ex-BOAC, but crew support does not seem to have been included in the deal, as British United were then contracted to provide this. It was a BUA crew on this secondment who were handling the aircraft when it was lost with all on board.

That's interesting, WHBM, but what is your source of information? My understanding is that the F/E and Nav were on secondment from BUA, but the captain and co-pilot had recently become employees of Nigeria Airways and had never worked for BUA. I suppose it's possible that BUA could have been involved in handling their recruitment to Nigeria Airways. Perhaps Jhieminga will shed further light:

Nigeria Airways and the VC10 (http://www.vc10.net/History/nigeria_airways_and_the_vc10.html#Moore)

Brit312

8th May 2018, 17:26

[QUOTE=Chris Scott;10141252]That's interesting, WHBM, but what is your source of information? My understanding is that the F/E and Nav were on secondment from BUA, but the captain and co-pilot had recently become employees of Nigeria Airways and had never worked for BUA. I suppose it's possible that BUA could have been involved in handling their recruitment to Nigeria Airways. Perhaps Jhieminga will shed further light:

Well i can confirm that the Captain of this flight was ex BOAC as I flew with him on this route some 5 months before the crash . He retired from BOAC and joined Nigeria Airways shortly afterwards.

When working in the hanger on BOAC Comet 4s we also handled EAA Comets which were a real pain, because unlike BOAC's aircraft, EAA always came in highly polished , so you had to carry extra rags around with you to whip off your oily finger prints.

Jhieminga

9th May 2018, 06:42

Georgeablelovehowindia

9th May 2018, 09:24

I cannot add much more than what's in the link Chris Scott posted I'm afraid. That page is a direct quote from Scott Henderson's 'Silent, Swift, Superb' book, I'd have to ask him where he got his information from. The E/O and Navigator were indeed both on secondment from BUA, their stories are on this page: VC10 Characters (http://www.vc10.net/Memories/Characters.html)

Also from this site, more detail: Nigeria Airways and the VC10 (http://www.vc10.net/History/nigeria_airways_and_the_vc10.html)
What is more sad is that a passenger on this flight was Captain Ron Hartley, a few weeks after retiring from BOAC, who was travelling out to take up a position as Flight Ops Director Nigeria Airways.