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View Full Version : The Crimes of Christians - According to Obama


rgbrock1
5th Feb 2015, 19:25
http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/EEOokMo0uV9fT3z.SCL1pw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NQ--/http://globalfinance.zenfs.com/en_us/Finance/US_AFTP_SILICONALLEY_H_LIVE/Obama_%27People_committed_terrible_deeds-b715895b0171020aa17b85c85362239e

President Barack Obama while being recognized at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, D.C.

President Barack Obama wants Christians to know Islam is not the only religion that has inspired violence and terror.
"Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ," Obama said Wednesday. "And in our home country, slavery, and Jim Crow, all too often was justified in the name of Christ."

G-CPTN
5th Feb 2015, 19:28
Is he playing the race card?

Don_Apron
5th Feb 2015, 19:30
President Barack Hussein Obama.

He would say that wouldn't he.

hiflymk3
5th Feb 2015, 19:32
^ No, Just stating facts. Haven't most religions committed genocide?

oldchina
5th Feb 2015, 19:32
... so what's the surprise .. ?

Toadstool
5th Feb 2015, 19:40
Some Americans think their President has Islamic leanings;

Conveniently forgetting that he authorised the killing of Bin Laden, authorised the killing by drones of HVIs in greater numbers than his predecessor, including American terrorists (who should be arrested apparently - they have rights) and led the Coalition against IS.

Apparently they also forget that other religions have also been involved in mass killings and wholesale slaughter, including in Bosnia.

Their complete subjectivity and hatred of Obama leads them to lose any objectivity or common sense.

IMHO.

Haven't most religions committed genocide?

Yes. Unless you think the world started when Obama got elected. But if you do, then you probably think the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth.

rh200
5th Feb 2015, 19:40
No, Just stating facts. Haven't most religions committed genocide?

Depends on the magnitude, but you could say they, as well as atheists socialist communists. Mind you the latter seems to take it to an even greater scale.

con-pilot
5th Feb 2015, 19:43
All religions are bullshit ...

Okay, then why don't you head over to the Middle East, find some of those nice, friendly ISIS folks and tell them that. I'm sure that they would love to debate that with you. :p


Oh, and I'll stay here if you don't mind. ;)

toffeez
5th Feb 2015, 19:43
BBC News - Barack Obama lauds 'good friend' Dalai Lama (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31152847)

Solid Rust Twotter
5th Feb 2015, 19:47
Pity he didn't lean on his other 'good friend', one Jacob Zuma to get the Dalai Lama a visa to visit South Africa for a Nobel Laureates conference.

tony draper
5th Feb 2015, 19:52
How much longer are you chaps stuck with him?:uhoh:

con-pilot
5th Feb 2015, 19:58
How much longer are you chaps stuck with him?

One year, 336 days, 12 hours and 56 seconds, but who's counting. :p

Don_Apron
5th Feb 2015, 20:15
Goodness me a lot of irreparable damage can be done in that time!

Fox3WheresMyBanana
5th Feb 2015, 20:49
Christian atrocities - past tense

Crusades ended in 1291
Spanish Inquisition ended executions in 1826 (unexpectedly ;))


Muslim atrocities - present tense

Saudi street beheading 2 weeks ago.
Saudi Arabia publicly beheads woman in holy Mecca as blogger lashings are postponed - Middle East - World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-publicly-beheads-woman-in-holy-mecca-as-blogger-set-to-receive-second-lashing-9982134.html)

Toadstool
5th Feb 2015, 20:56
Fox

any other killings done in the name of religion, other than Islam, since 1826?

Fantome
5th Feb 2015, 21:08
You can't get a look in to a good stoning these days


(thinks . . . the boys who were abused and who later topped themselves . .

they could almost qualify. In a perverse sort of a way.)

Fox3WheresMyBanana
5th Feb 2015, 21:15
There's a reasonably well organised listing here.

Killings for Christianity (http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html#modern)

The Balkans and the Middle East are recent examples.

The Balkans is such a mess of nationalism and ethnicity that I don't think anyone reckons the recent wars were primarily religious.

The Christian atrocities in the ME (e.g. Lebanon) were generally in direct response to prior Muslim atrocities.
e.g.The leader of the Sabra and Shatila massacre was the war criminal Elie Hobeika. His fiancée had been raped and murdered in 1976 by the Palestinians in the Damour massacre of Christians by Arafat's PLO and other Palestinians.

Witch-burnings in Nigeria is probably the biggest cause of Christian killings at the moment.

However, the numbers game puts the muslims way up at the top of the list.


India, of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_India
Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims. They're all at it. Even a bunch carried out by the Christian British, though not for religious reasons.

Fantome
5th Feb 2015, 21:31
Professor Brian Cox, in a recent doco he compared, attempts to deliver the message that the only thing that can save the world from annihilation is to embrace the advance of science. But he does not say in what way the world can be freed of dogma, superstition, greed and violence.

It's a juggernaut . There is no way of stopping it.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
5th Feb 2015, 21:46
Buy every intolerant religious person a one-way ticket to Syria.

Bake for 50 years.

And a better world emerges.

Juggernaut tears itself apart. Job jobbed.

Fantome
5th Feb 2015, 21:49
c'mon . . back to reality

a fascist state will rise in the west sooner or later, since democracies are probably going the way that blighted the best of intentions in the days of Socrates

Fox3WheresMyBanana
5th Feb 2015, 21:55
My thoughts on a real world solution aren't printable, but it doesn't matter what I think - it matters what Joe Public thinks, and who s/he's prepared to vote in to do it. I intend remaining in an area where a muslim is as rare as rocking horse droppings until the fun's over.

I'm an agnostic. We don't kill anybody for religious reasons.

Metro man
6th Feb 2015, 00:56
How much longer are you chaps stuck with him?

If the Republicans had put up a credible candidate instead of a Mormon who believes God lives on the planet Kolob near the sun and paying in 10% of your income to the church will get you a planet to rule over in the next life, then you might not have been stuck with him at all.:rolleyes:

Una Due Tfc
6th Feb 2015, 01:07
As an outsider looking in to the United States, it does seem the Republican party is very divided, and being held back by significant groups of absolute nutters like the birthers, Tea Party, creationists, and people who genuinely believe the rapture is imminent. If the Republicans could get their act together, again I stress this is from the perspective of a non-US citizen, I think they would win the White House easily after Obama, who in my opinion has been an overall disappointment.

The role of the Catholic church in Rwanda in 1994 is seen as controversial by many. 2 priests were executed in 99 for inciting murder. They were denounced by Pope John Paul II, who said publicly that "they must answer for their crimes".

We shouldn't forget there are still Christian parts of the world where alcohol is banned, marital rape is not a crime but homosexuality is. The age of consent in Vatican City is 12 years old ffs. Many sects of Christianity are not as progressive or fair as we like to think in the west, most of us are just fortunate enough to live in countries that realise how ridiculous some of the bible's teachings are.

mikedreamer787
6th Feb 2015, 02:17
Saudi Arabia publicly beheads woman in holy Mecca as blogger lashings are postponed - Middle East - World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-publicly-beheads-woman-in-holy-mecca-as-blogger-set-to-receive-second-lashing-9982134.html)

What's not published, which is typical, is how that b!tch murdered that poor girl.

Her method was too bloody abhorrent for even me to explain.

AFIAC its enough to say she got what she bloody well deserved.

Flying Lawyer
6th Feb 2015, 13:08
Una Due Tfc
The age of consent in Vatican City is 12 years old ffs.

Can you post your source for that claim (ffs)?
I'm open to correction but I think the age of consent in Vatican City is 18 except between married couples.
Examples elsewhere: Austria, Germany, Italy, Portugal (14), France, Denmark, Greece (15), Britain, Finland, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Switzerland (16).

Marriageable age -
Vatican City: Males 16, females 14.
England & Wales: 16 with parental consent.
Scotland: 16
America: Most states 18; exceptions from 14 yrs with parental consent.

Many sects of Christianity are not as progressive or fair as we like to think in the west, most of us are just fortunate enough to live in countries that realise how ridiculous some of the bible's teachings are. I don't share those opinions - but responding would take us even further off topic.

rgbrock1
6th Feb 2015, 13:15
The age of consent in Vatican City was always 12 years of age until Pope Francis ordered an overhaul of the City's criminal code, in 2013, which brought the age of consent from 12 to 18 years of age.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
6th Feb 2015, 13:25
Mike - re Saudi executions
Around half of all Saudi executions are of foreign workers. In 2013, there were 45 foreign maids on death row. Sri Lanka recalled its ambassador over a case involving a Sri Lankan maid.
The death of the child was horrific, but do you honestly believe Saudi has a fair trial system?
The plight of migrant workers in Saudi Arabia - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2013/01/201311116530348352.html)

My experience of working in ME is that it's always the foreigners fault.


Meanwhile in Qatar, another construction worker died today, as on average one has every day for the last 2 years on the World Cup projects. Still a soccer fan? Mind the blood and brains on the seat; there's free wipes available though.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/23/qatar-nepal-workers-world-cup-2022-death-toll-doha

charliegolf
6th Feb 2015, 13:31
My thoughts on a real world solution aren't printable

Fuel-air, perchance?

CG

rgbrock1
6th Feb 2015, 14:32
charliegolf:

Fuel-air would be one option. As would be a few GBU-43/B's. (MOAB or, the Mother Of All Bombs. All 22,000 lbs of each.) :eek::eek::eek:

AnQrKa
6th Feb 2015, 14:32
Google abortion clinic bombings and shootings in USA, Canada, Aus. Plenty of Christian violence there.

And "Operation Just Crusade" had its name changed after protests but who really thinks the original name was simply accidental? A call to arms for christians maybe?

Christians have blood on their hands just as much as any other religeon. We just dont shout god is great as we start shotting, thats all.

fitliker
6th Feb 2015, 15:05
Did anyone mention how often history repeats itself :)


Might be the reason why, they replaced the old rusty barbed wire and electric fences at one of the old death camps in Poland.


Although we may never know. Until the deeds are done.

Una Due Tfc
6th Feb 2015, 15:12
I'm glad that Francis has raised the age of consent to 18 in Vatican City. He seems like a decent guy, unlike his predecessor.

In Ireland, until about 40 or so years ago, women who became pregnant outside of marriage were interred in church run work camps. Many of these women were rape victims.

It's time we learnt the truth about Magdalene Laundries - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/its-time-we-learnt-the-truth-about-magdalene-laundries-30408325.html)

The lucky ones amongst these children were adopted, the unlucky ones were taken by church run orphanages. These children grew up facing horrific physical, emotional and sexual abuse. The mortality rate in these orphanages was multiple times higher than that for children outside church care in Ireland. Last year a mass grave was found on the grounds of one of these orphanages.

Septic tank grave for 796 children - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/septic-tank-grave-for-796-children-30327481.html).

At the time, the church was given the equivalent social welfare for each person under their "care" as the man or woman on the street who was unemployed. And yet there were children dying of malnourishment in their orphanages. All because their mothers had them outside of marriage, some of them because their mothers were raped.

Some of the women in these "Magdalene Laundries" weren't even pregnant, their parents were just poor.

Magdalene Laundries survivor Elizabeth Coppin tells of her fight for justice - Irish Mirror Online (http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/magdalene-laundries-survivor-elizabeth-coppin-2802968)

OFSO
6th Feb 2015, 15:14
The Rivesaltes Concentration Camp....er, "detention camp"....... just north of Perpignan airport (F) was closed in 2007. And it's all still there, just empty and abandoned. For now.

rgbrock1
6th Feb 2015, 15:20
Google abortion clinic bombings and shootings in USA, Canada, Aus. Plenty of Christian violence there.

Google "Armenian genocide" and see how many Christians were murdered by their Muslim "brethren". I don't recall the reverse happening, on that scale, any time in the 20th, or 21st, Century.

ExXB
6th Feb 2015, 15:34
So we are agreed, many religions are guilty of atrocities to their own believers and to others.

But It isn't acceptable to suggest that atrocities by one religion is OK, or even less bad, because other religions have done the same or worse.

We should be condemning all of these.

Lonewolf_50
6th Feb 2015, 15:40
Google abortion clinic bombings and shootings in USA, Canada, Aus. Plenty of Christian violence there. Actually, they are quite rare in terms of actual happenings versus the myths of media world. More often you get protests and a lot of noise and hollering.

Now, go back and count the weekly count of bombings (alone) in Iraq since 2003, which is Iraqi on Iraqi violence, and you will find about two orders of magnitude in difference.

Or maybe just drop your ignorant stereotype.

airship
6th Feb 2015, 16:02
Christians do not commit crimes.
They merely sin.

And all sins, past, present and future were officially forgiven (if not pardoned) in the year 33AD, approx. 1,982 years ago. :p

Lonewolf_50
6th Feb 2015, 17:16
Christians do not commit crimes.
They merely sin.

And all sins, past, present and future were officially forgiven (if not pardoned) in the year 33AD, approx. 1,982 years ago. :p
Your profound misunderstanding and misrepresentation of that faith, which appears to be willful, is a text book example of "talking out of one's backside."

I shall use it in my next classroom evolution, so thank you! :ok::}

mikedreamer787
6th Feb 2015, 18:15
IIRC there is text that says Original Sin was forgiven at the exact time of Christ's death, but in the Gethsemane Garden before he was arrested he could see all sins committed, being committed, and committed in the future. I might be wrong though.

AnQrKa
6th Feb 2015, 18:56
"I don't recall the reverse happening, on that scale, any time in the 20th, or 21st, Century."

Very true. Unless you count the million or so we have killed in the ME in the past 30 odd years.

Lonewolf_50
6th Feb 2015, 20:01
Who is we?
Most of the dead in Iraq have not been by Western hands. Likewise in Syria and Libya.
I know you find that hard to believe, but there it is.
The critical thing the fall of Saddam permitted was a lot of bubbling conflicts to break into action. The failure of the attempt at cat herding by the US and the coalition of allies is pretty well documented.
Them folks were so eager to get after one another it was awe inspiring, if you want to put a word on it. Passion -- hatred -- of that depth is something to behold.
Granted, the coalition killed their share, but the real carnage happened whilst the coalition was trying to nation build during a civil war.

A less well publicized tragedy, from Iraq, is the displacement of between 1 and 2 million. As best I can gather over a million left the country, never to return. If you want to know where the "moderates" are, I think they are mostly somewhere else, having fled.
I don't doubt that similar is true in Syria, who have seen a similar number GTFO during this recent civil war.

KenV
6th Feb 2015, 21:30
No, Just stating facts. Haven't most religions committed genocide?


Proabably. But not any more so than humanists, socialists, communists, fascists, and any other nominally non-religious group/faction you wish to name. And maybe less. The only common denominator is that HUMANS are involved. To me it seems that most atrocities are committed DESPITE religions rather than because of them.

And separately, it seems like its been quite awhile since there have been significant Christian atrocities. Muslim atrocities seem to be ongoing.

tdracer
7th Feb 2015, 05:48
While there have been exceptions, Christians for the most part outgrew their violent religious tendencies a couple centuries ago. Sure, there have been plenty of wars, but they have been based on power (mainly economic), not religion.

Islam hasn't gotten to that point yet.
The biggest problem I have with Obama's comments is that it totally undercuts his entire "Islam isn't the problem, it's extremism" theme.

He just pronounced Islam the problem - not exactly the way to get non-extreme Muslims on our side :ugh: