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View Full Version : Lufthansa - what a rip off....


Hussar 54
5th Feb 2015, 14:26
Maybe should go in the SLF thread, but more of a rant than the usual posts in there....

I have about 38,000 Miles&More miles earned on SAA and LX due to expire 31.03.2015....Can't use them myself before then so thought I'd give them to the daughter to come and visit us here, even if only for the weekend....

So....

LHR <> MRS in late February / early March, LH want 15,000 or 30,000 miles depending on dates of travel PLUS 216 allegedly for taxes / charges / fees / etc....

Same dates/flights as offered above, she can buy the ticket, online from LH, for just 161....

Makes my blood boil !!!

Solid Rust Twotter
5th Feb 2015, 14:36
Not the only one. Air France are also taking the piss with their Flying Blue loyalty circus. Hardly worth it any more. I'd probably do better on an airline with superior service and additional comfort for the same price.

Fareastdriver
5th Feb 2015, 15:05
Air France, Lufthanser and KLM. Never again.

UniFoxOs
5th Feb 2015, 15:07
Completely agree, forget the air miles and just go for the best deal. Same applies to any other shopping inducements - when you come to try and use them you can't get what you inferred you were going to get from their bullshit adverts.

Capetonian
5th Feb 2015, 15:21
I worked out a few years ago that the value of M&M points ..... are about as valuable as M&Ms that come in a packet.

The best way to spend them is at the LH online shop. I looked at a return flight from GB-ZA, and they were worth about 50 at redemption. I went to the online shop and got €300 worth of Radisson Hotel vouchers, which we used for a stay in Berlin. Because there was a small problem over the reservation, the hotel gave us an extra night and dinner for three people, so we got about €500 value out of that.

I also got two Hilfiger shirts and a pullover, not stuff I'd normally buy, but very nice, worth about €100 each (according to she who knows about clothes!)

So from 50 against flights, I ended up getting >€600.

I never, ever, book flights based on the lure of a loyalty scheme, they're mostly a big scam, I worked out once that the value is about 0.7% of what the flights cost you. It's one of the reasons I do most of my EU flights on EZY.

Um... lifting...
5th Feb 2015, 16:05
https://flipmymiles.com

A year or so back, I had a similar situation with expiring LH miles, but I had something around 140 thousand of them in my account.

Looked at award travel, and the taxes were prohibitive, to the point that purchasing the same ticket outright would hardly cost any more than the award travel. Purchasing trinkets I didn't want from LH's site was also a non-starter.

I then looked at selling the things and found the website above. Unfortunately, I believe the minimum threshold for selling the miles is 50 thou in increments of 5 thou.

If memory serves, they paid me US $0.012 per mile, or around $1700 minus the standard PayPal seller's fee. A deposit was made to my PayPal account in a matter of hours. I bought some toys for myself with the proceeds. I sold the miles within 60 days of their expiry with no trouble.

The question might arise as to what they DO with your miles once they buy them. They purchase award travel with the miles they have purchased, using your account, and will plus it up as need be. They purchased a ticket for some fellow from Dusseldorf to Dubai or some such. Never heard of the fellow. This requires you to give them full access to your account, including password. I decided that doing this, and stopping the feeding of my LH account was worth it.

Capetonian
5th Feb 2015, 16:16
Those mile selling schemes are of dubious legality ...... the Ts&Cs of the loyalty schemes usually preclude on-selling. I don't see them as any more immoral than scams that the airlines pull on us to get our loyalty!

By the way I had something like 400,000 miles to get rid of at one point.

Um... lifting...
5th Feb 2015, 18:00
Those mile selling schemes are of dubious legality

Quite probably true, as is the rest of your paragraph. But they got their taxes / fees, and I gave a gift ticket to my dear friend / colleague... Mr. Whatsisname.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Hobo
5th Feb 2015, 18:09
LHR <> MRS in late February / early March, LH want 15,000 or 30,000 miles depending on dates of travel PLUS 216 allegedly for taxes / charges / fees / etc....
Same dates/flights as offered above, she can buy the ticket, online from LH, for just 161....


And on Ryanair STN-MRS 20 (eg FEB 24 or 25)

Hussar 54
5th Feb 2015, 19:48
Think I'll just contact LH directly and ask them to explain !!

Or maybe the Daily HateMail, who love a good moan about stuff like this....

TWOTTER - you're right...Have almost 900,000 miles in Flying Blue which I've been saving for next year when I retire, and they're becoming worth less every year....But at least they don't expire as do LH's miles after 18 months....

CAPE....Good idea - I'll get something from the online shop....I looked for the hotel vouchers but couldn't find them, only booking specific hotels which start at about 20,000ish per night in, say, Edinburgh or, more accurately, about 10 > 15 miles outside of Edinburgh....

LIFTING....Sadly yes, 50k minimum with Miles&More....

HOBO....Yes, but -

UK > Marseille 26.02 - Marseille > UK 02.03....

Ryanair costs work out as -

Return Fare - 44
Bags - 40.00
Seat Reservation - 12
Total - 96

And as the daughter lives 20 minutes-ish from LHR and the Boyfriend can drop her off, add parking at Stansted, another 40, plus 200 mile roundtrip, and Ryanair isn't the bargain it first seems....

Ah well....

meadowrun
5th Feb 2015, 20:03
I have Airmiles.
I got a very nice Samsung digital camera with the points... and that's it.

Solid Rust Twotter
5th Feb 2015, 20:36
TWOTTER - you're right...Have almost 900,000 miles in Flying Blue which I've been saving for next year when I retire, and they're becoming worth less every year....But at least they don't expire as do LH's miles after 18 months....


They expire in 24 months IINM. Even the seats with extra leg room one could get with a gold or platinum card are no longer available as AF now charges extra for them despite the level one has attained. It really is becoming pointless.:hmm:

cattletruck
6th Feb 2015, 10:12
I think I once had about 140,000 FFPs in Star Alliance, then it went TU, came back, and I had zero.

But I wasn't fussed as I flew for years without subscribing to these FFP schemes anyway.

Now I use the Skywards plan and regularly blow the points to upgrade whenever I can, simpler.

Still, it makes me laugh when asked at the supermarket checkin if I have a FFP reward plan. I'm tempted to say don't waste your breath but the poor souls are probably forced to ask that question.

Wingswinger
6th Feb 2015, 10:17
Try EZY LGW<>MRS.

tupungato
6th Feb 2015, 11:47
I have ~12.000 miles in M&M. I was looking at some 15.000 miles promotions. It's cheaper to buy the flight for cash than to pay for the "taxes and fees" in M&M!

:mad:

IBMJunkman
6th Feb 2015, 15:48
Flew purchased Business Class California-Milan quarterly for 11 years ending at the end of 2000. All on United and LH. At the end I was concerned that all my miles would disappear due to not flying anymore. As luck would have it my Visa card was tied to Mileage Plus. I called and was told that as long as I made purchases with the card the miles already accumulated would live on.

I have made 3 Business Class trips to Italy in the last 14 years for fees only. $129 for the last trip. In 2 years or so, using the credit card, I should have topped up the remaining miles for 1 last 'free' trip to Italy.

airship
6th Feb 2015, 17:19
SRT wrote: Air France are also taking the piss with their Flying Blue loyalty circus.

Please direct any complaints to our very own flyblue (http://www.pprune.org/members/23290-flyblue) "Fabulous Flyblue Bleu SuperModerateur" svp?! Or maybe not. :(

Hmmm. "Doors to manual and cross-check. If cross, deflate the airship." :uhoh:

Um... lifting...
6th Feb 2015, 17:21
An account with United is very different from one with Lufthansa. The tiers are lower, as are the fees for redemption. Likewise Delta compared with Flying Blue.

Redemption fees aboard Delta are about $10 for domestic flights, perhaps $40 to cross the pond economy, $100 or so in business.

meadowrun
6th Feb 2015, 19:45
OH, please don't bother Flyblue. Like she has anything to do with it!!

Solid Rust Twotter
7th Feb 2015, 08:11
What Meadowrun said. Left to Flyblue, I'm sure it would be a worthwhile effort to subscribe. As it is, there's probably some thrusting young mob of consultants behind the latest clusterfcuk apparently aimed at degrading the brand and making them look cheap and nasty.

tdracer
7th Feb 2015, 22:22
I've been very happy with my experiences with Delta FF program. I recently booked two round trip Business class tickets Seattle to Jakarta - 280,000 miles and $160 in taxes/fees (total). Business class SEA to CGK is ~$6000, so I figure the miles are effectively worth around 4~5 cents a mile.

To meet family obligations, I've had to travel to Jakarta every 2 or 3 years, and every single trip has been business class using Delta miles.:ok:
Perhaps the best part is that if plans change and I need to cancel the trip, cancellation penalties are minimal (unlike minimum fare business class tickets).

Keef
7th Feb 2015, 23:51
When I was a working lad, I collected stacks of FF miles. I took the missus around the USA, mostly first class, on Delta. We used up most of them.

I had rather more Northwest/KLM ones, and planned to take her to Australia using those. What I didn't know soon enough was that those had a very short "lifetime". When I came to book the trip, almost all of them had expired. I had just enough for one person to fly UK to Amsterdam. I didn't bother.

cavortingcheetah
8th Feb 2015, 07:46
KLM used to be as good as anyone else with their air mile redemption set up. Since the take over by Air France, using miles as a Flying Blue member, whether gold, silver or off white ivory, has become really rather a waste of time. The scale of mile charges appears to have quadrupled while the flights on which they are available has become quite restricted. Not that long ago EGLL to YSSY was 150,000 miles, J class. Now it's closer to 600,000
On the other hand, when in Britain, KLM does allow me to hub through EHAM thereby avoiding the morasses of KK and LL and the taxi commute back after a long haul.
As I understand matters with the life of KLM miles, you have to keep current flying KLM in order to keep the miles up. Once you go for a year with no KLM/Air France flight, you'll lose the miles for good. But that might not be correct, depending on whether you speak with a KLM rep or an Air France one. I have generally found the former to be more accurate and helpful.
Now, as to Lufthansa......I know nothing.....

airship
8th Feb 2015, 15:53
Another air miles / air pass thread which might have some relevence from 2013 here (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/508011-american-airlines-us-500-000-unlimited-lifetime-1st-class-airpass-unravels.html)...