PDA

View Full Version : ISIS.....again


Pages : [1] 2

crewmeal
3rd Feb 2015, 17:17
Is there no end to this evil oufit.

Burned alive in a cage: ISIS release video claiming to show horrifying murder of captured Jordanian pilot | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2938199/Burned-alive-cage-ISIS-release-video-claiming-horrifying-murder-captured-Jordanian-pilot.html)

It's time the world dealt with this once and for all!

flying lid
3rd Feb 2015, 17:24
It's time the world dealt with this once and for all

I 100% agree - but how ?

Lid

Kelly Hopper
3rd Feb 2015, 17:56
Easy. It worked with the Japanese, it will work again. But no-one has the balls except perhaps the Russians? Get them involved and they take no prisoners!

JFZ90
3rd Feb 2015, 19:24
It's time the world dealt with this once and for all!

Dealt with what? Religion?

I dare say you maybe right; no time like the present.

Stephen Fry nailed it the other day.

gorter
3rd Feb 2015, 19:47
For those that didn't see Stephen Fry's take on the matter. http://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo

angels
3rd Feb 2015, 20:05
Kelly - The Russians are involved, up to their bloody necks!

To précis hugely, the west has cocked up in the Middle East. Would we have invaded Iraq if it was one of the world's biggest producers of onions? I don't think so. We helped create the instability that is fertile breeding ground for nutcases.

But Russia has kept -- and is keeping -- Syria's Assad in power and that has led to what started as peaceful demonstrations being hijacked by extremists which has in turn led to the Islamic State.

I wrote on these pages many moons ago about ISIS. The fact that Al Qaeda of all people disowned them as too extreme was a clue many didn't pick up on. People didn't really care when Raqqa was taken over by them. It was only when they infested Iraq that they really took notice.

It is a total and utter clusterfook.

G-CPTN
3rd Feb 2015, 20:14
The fact that Al Qaeda of all people disowned them as too extreme was a clue many didn't pick up on.

You mean that they aren't all the same? :eek:

(Most 'Western' people will assume so.)

con-pilot
3rd Feb 2015, 20:17
We helped create the instability that is fertile breeding ground for nutcases.


Yes, the Sykes–Picot Agreement between Great Britain and France (plus some influence by Russia) in 1916 set the boundaries for the mess we are dealing with today.

Lonewolf_50
3rd Feb 2015, 20:32
con, since you were being a gentleman about it: yes, Europe, once again we are still cleaning up after the FUBAR'd mess you truck load of idiots made after WW I. That clean up process includes the whole thing called WW II, but that isn't the end of it. The Break up of Yugoslavia is also a residual from that redrawing of lines.

That we also got involved in a mess in the Mid East, where you European geniuses left a lovely clusterhump, should not be a surprise as it's an utter political mess to start with.

Thanks so much for leaving it for others to clean up, which you have shown that you cannot and will not, particular after your petulant little sulk over the Suez Canal in 1956.

Now, back to ISIS:
1. In whose interest is it that these cnuts run amok?
2. In whose interest is it that these cnuts are put down?
3. And who really cares less?
Answers to 1 and 2 I leave to you.
Answers to 3 include ... China. If they cared, a bit more might be done, and might not.
They have other fish to fry.

BigEndBob
3rd Feb 2015, 20:46
gorter,,, I had just come home from visiting my mother in a home where all her adult life has been spent dealing with mental illness.

Two bible bashers knocked on my door and I answered...:mad:

I think they went away to reconsider their religion.

Akrotiri71
3rd Feb 2015, 20:52
Just heard on Channel 4 news that the Jordanians are going to hang the failed female suicide bomber, they have got captive, in reprisal for the death of the pilot.

Wingswinger
3rd Feb 2015, 20:52
Surely it is not beyond the wit of the whole world to put aside differences for a moment and get together in a Grand Coalition, under the auspices of the UN if we must, to wipe these vermin off the face of the planet?

Sadly, it probably is.

ATNotts
3rd Feb 2015, 21:08
The time has come to accept that we, in the west are WRONG.

We should throw our lot in with Assad (and the Russians) and wipe these evil thugs off the face of the Arab world. If that requires the use of battlefield nuclear weapons to make the evil shit understand the error of their ways, then so be it.

For all his faults Assad is no fanatical Muslim, and Christians, and all factions of Islam lived (reasonably) peacefully within Syria until the "Arab Spring" when the whole thing fell apart with the support of us (the West) against Assad's regime. What a God almighty mess we have caused as a result of our foolish meddling.

Same is happened, sadly in Libya, where we assisted in unseating Gadaffi, and Iraq, where we removed Hussain.

ATNotts
3rd Feb 2015, 21:10
Just heard on Channel 4 news that the Jordanians are going to hang the failed female suicide bomber, they have got captive, in reprisal for the death of the pilot.

Too humanitarian - infect her with ebola, and watch her die in agony, preferably on Youtube.

Dea Certe
3rd Feb 2015, 21:12
She's a woman. These barbarians couldnt care less about what happens to her.

Akrotiri71
3rd Feb 2015, 21:21
The time has come to accept that we, in the west are WRONG.

We should throw our lot in with Assad (and the Russians) and wipe these evil thugs off the face of the Arab world. If that requires the use of battlefield nuclear weapons to make the evil shit understand the error of their ways, then so be it.

For all his faults Assad is no fanatical Muslim, and Christians, and all factions of Islam lived (reasonably) peacefully within Syria until the "Arab Spring" when the whole thing fell apart with the support of us (the West) against Assad's regime. What a God almighty mess we have caused as a result of our foolish meddling.

Same is happened, sadly in Libya, where we assisted in unseating Gadaffi, and Iraq, where we removed Hussain.

Too true. Geopolitics is a dangerous game.

Akrotiri71
3rd Feb 2015, 21:25
She's a woman. These barbarians couldnt care less about what happens to her.

Will she get rogered by 72 studs?

Dea Certe
3rd Feb 2015, 21:37
I don't know. I do know women are considered fairly disposable. remember those little girls who were fitted with exploding vests and sent into a crowd? And the little Down Syndrome girl also in a suicide vest? Females of any age have very little standing except for sex, manual labor and child bearing.

This latest bit seems to rise to the level of crimes against humanity. Maybe it's time the whole world gets involved. The world is being affected by these murderous hordes.

banjodrone
3rd Feb 2015, 21:38
Bad ideas are more dangerous than bad people. We'll keep having these problems as long as we keep believing in bronze age superstitious nonsense.

Fubaar
3rd Feb 2015, 21:49
There's nothing new about gross mistreatment of captured pilots. The RAF chappies who flew in the 1920s and 30s 'keeping the natives in check' in what is now Iraq carried a revolver for a bit of quick terminal self-medication if they were forced down in the badlands because the alternative didn't bear thinking about.

The Russians weren't exactly welcoming of any German pilot shot down behind their lines, and I seem to remember that a few Polish and Czech pilots flying with the RAF in 1940 were said to have 'died of wounds' after bailing out of their Spitfires and Hurricanes because they had funny accents when rescued by irate English farm hands.

Back in 1970, when US forces went into Cambodia officially, they found a crashed FAC (from a few months earlier when the US had been there unofficially) with the pilot's body strung up on a frame beside the aircraft. Evidence suggested he'd been skinned alive. (It was standard procedure for the other side to set an injured pilot up with his survival radio in an attempt to get a rescue mission to come in. Meanwhile, they'd have half a dozen 12.7mm MGs set up around the crash site.) That particular ambush didn't go quite to plan, so they amused themselves for a few hours and possibly days with their knives.)

Hempy
4th Feb 2015, 01:04
con, since you were being a gentleman about it: yes, Europe, once again we are still cleaning up after the FUBAR'd mess you truck load of idiots made after WW I. That clean up process includes the whole thing called WW II, but that isn't the end of it. The Break up of Yugoslavia is also a residual from that redrawing of lines.

That we also got involved in a mess in the Mid East, where you European geniuses left a lovely clusterhump, should not be a surprise as it's an utter political mess to start with.

Thanks so much for leaving it for others to clean up, which you have shown that you cannot and will not, particular after your petulant little sulk over the Suez Canal in 1956.

You should get a job as a script writer for a sitcom!

The USA. Fixing everyone else's mess since 1917 :ugh:

421dog
4th Feb 2015, 01:22
I think that this was a poor decision on the part of ISIS.

I look forward to helping prove that point.

con-pilot
4th Feb 2015, 02:49
The USA. Fixing everyone else's mess since 1917. :ugh:

Maybe, maybe not, discounting World War Two in the European theater.

But the World is paying the price for it now. Own up to it and stop blaming someone else.

newfieboy
4th Feb 2015, 04:10
One of my best friends is in theatre with JTF2, I just spoke via text....just watched part of video on this execution, turned it off straight away....The boys want gloves OFF, not in a week, month, year....NOW. ISIS just made big mistake. The Western World Spec Ops will be let loose, good luck boys, good hunting....Oh Yeah, Jihadi John, the boys are coming,bye,bye.

Una Due Tfc
4th Feb 2015, 04:40
The removal of Saddam was a massive blunder. Al Qaeda did not exist in Iraq before his downfall. The longer this stuff goes on the more I think these people need to be ruled with an iron fist. Saddam, Assad, Mubarak, Gaddafi, various Shahs/Amirs/Kings, bastards all, but probably better than what is happening now. Democracy does not and never has worked in these countries.

ISIS is a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Once again people suffer because somebody thinks their sky daddy is better than another sky daddy.

pigboat
4th Feb 2015, 04:41
Oh Yeah, Jihadi John, the boys are coming, bye,bye.
Now ya done it, Angry Tom will be on your ass like holy on the Pope. ;)

Una Due Tfc
4th Feb 2015, 04:58
And as for WWII, Russia would have won the war in Europe without U.S. intervention, it just would have taken a hell of a lot longer, and they wouldn't have stopped in Berlin!

Captain Sand Dune
4th Feb 2015, 06:04
Just heard on Channel 4 news that the Jordanians are going to hang the failed female suicide bomber, they have got captive, in reprisal for the death of the pilot.
They've done it. The female suicide bomber Sajida al-Rishawi and Iraqi al Qaeda member Ziad al-Karboli were executed at 4AM local time today.
ISIS have made a bad mistake p*ssing of the Jordanians. They are far less likely to engage in the pathetic hand wringing that we in the West do.
The Western World Spec Ops will be let loose, good luck boys, good hunting....Oh Yeah, Jihadi John, the boys are coming,bye,bye.
I sincerely hope so, however refer my previous comment.

rh200
4th Feb 2015, 07:27
The removal of Saddam was a massive blunder.Disagree, the Shites and Kurds deserve to run there country, why not let them use the methods that you where happy to let Saddam use to keep the peace?

Al Qaeda did not exist in Iraq before his downfall.Probably right, but irrelevant at the moment, we're talking about ISIS, and they came over the Border from Syria, a result of Obama's experimentation with freedom and nation building.

Fliegenmong
4th Feb 2015, 08:05
we're talking about ISIS here.....

There fixed it for you!....

.....now ISIS is WHERE they are because Saddam would have stopped these clowns at the border.....and likely a bit over the border for good measure perhaps

Una Due Tfc
4th Feb 2015, 08:37
BBC reported yesterday several ISIS leaders are Jordanians released by king Abdullah in 1994 as part of the amnesty. They moved to Afghanistan to join AQ. When Saddam fell they moved to Iraq and led the insurgency there, then frustrated, they moved to Syria when that all kicked off and became ISIS, so I think they're related, although if I'm honest I don't care as long as a predator drone finds them pronto. Certainly looks like Putin was right re Assad all this time

ORAC
4th Feb 2015, 09:50
Yes, the Sykes–Picot Agreement between Great Britain and France (plus some influence by Russia) in 1916 set the boundaries for the mess we are dealing with today. Started long before we got involved......

Rise of the Wahabi Movement (http://aboutwahhabi.tripod.com/Files01/07_Rise_Wahhabi.PDF)

rh200
4th Feb 2015, 10:43
There fixed it for you!....

Thanks:ok:

LGW Vulture
4th Feb 2015, 11:09
Sorry if this has been posted before but it gives some really useful insight into just how entrenched ISIS is, in and around Raqqah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUjHb4C7b94

Some scenes not for the squeamish......

Tempsford
4th Feb 2015, 11:14
Thank you Orac. Now very fed up with the problems of the modern world being solely put on what were the 'colonial powers'. Many hide behind this, but a lot of what we see today in for example, the Middle East was not helped by what was done in the 20th century, but has been extant for a great deal longer than that. There's nothing as pure as the purified and some Americans should stop blaming the problems of the modern world purely on what has happened in the last 100 years.

Flying Lawyer
4th Feb 2015, 23:17
Started long before we got involved......

It would be wrong to blame the problems of the Middle East solely on the old colonial powers but the problems were certainly not helped, and arguably exacerbated, by international meddling at various times in the 20th century - which still continues in the 21st.

I agree with con-pilot that the secret Sykes–Picot Agreement between Britain and France (with Russian approval) in 1916 to a large extent set the boundaries for today's mess. The secret Agreement was never completely fulfilled by the peace agreements but it led, understandably, to the Arab people not entirely trusting the British or French governments thereafter. (The Arab world didn't find out about the agreement until 1917.)

However, the S-P Agreement was very short-lived and replaced by the San Remo Agreement in 1920, which arguably exacerbated the problems. The San Remo Conference was attended by Britain, France, Italy, Japan and by America as an observer. The decisions made were subsequently endorsed by the US Congress (1922), in the Anglo-American Treaty on Palestine (1924) and ratified by the US Senate and by Britain in 1925.

It would be easy to dismiss Sykes and Picot as men of their time - archetypal 'empire men'/colonialists who firmly believed in the (arrogant) notion that the people of the region would be better off under European empires.
However, when one considers the extent of the continuing American and European interference and meddling in the Middle East, it is not unreasonable to ask what, if anything, we've learnt since those days?

Arguably little or nothing.
America and some European countries including Britain still meddle in the affairs of the Middle East, almost a century later.

Tempsford
5th Feb 2015, 00:32
As I said, what did happen in the last 100 years in many cases has not helped. A lot of what we see now is 'pay back' time for occurrences over many centuries. This time however, it is different, more sinister and more organised. The plots on the map of West Africa, North Africa, the Middle East and Western Asia are slowly joint up and apart from air strikes, little is being done. The reason? If the west with the cooperation of a few Arab States does react, the call of the 'Return of the Crusaders' will resonate loud and clear and give this evil regime even more justification to make their a just cause. This group are well organized,financially supported and fanatical. Who is paying for this? I live in a small oasis slowly being surrounded by strife and conflict. I am already looking to get my family out and soon the 'safe route' may involve a journey around the Cape of Good Hope. Ironic don't you think as this is the way us creators of the most detested empire in history ( if you read many versions of history taught in various countries close to here) the cause of all the problems in this region arrived.

crewmeal
5th Feb 2015, 06:34
What I can't understand is why Gulf states like Saudi Arabia UAE and others are not trying to help rid this cancer of human society. SA has spent billions over the years on defence and to me they don't use it! Surely it's in their own interests to protect themselves from this 'cancer'

ATNotts
5th Feb 2015, 08:04
crewmeal

What I can't understand is why Gulf states like Saudi Arabia UAE and others are not trying to help rid this cancer of human society. SA has spent billions over the years on defence and to me they don't use it! Surely it's in their own interests to protect themselves from this 'cancer'

What stops ISIS and their ilk from destablising the likes of Saudi Arabia and the UAE is that both are largely dictatorships run with iron thumbs. If the west were stupid enough to promote democracy in either state then we'd in all probability be in the same mess as we are in other parts of the Middle East, and with Saudi oil so important to us, I think we're not that stupid!

Hempy
5th Feb 2015, 08:22
What stops ISIS and their ilk from destablising the likes of Saudi Arabia and the UAE is that both are largely dictatorships run with iron thumbs.

Precisely. Sort of just like how Iraq, Syria and Libya used to be..

Of course the Yanks were only doing the world a favour when they toppled the first domino. They were only fixing the Anglo-French debacle that started it all in the first place..

Fliegenmong
5th Feb 2015, 08:34
Precisely. Sort of just like how Iraq, Syria and Libya used to be..

Yep, I look back and think of being younger and more naive....but still got that Iraq call correct...a predictable mess :hmm:......"if you break it you own it" :ugh:

Anyway, here's an email sent me today that cheered me up...it came with piccys that I don't know how to post, so I'll just paste teh text....no idea if it is true, but sure hope so!! :D

____________________________________________________________ _______

Daring night-time “Quad Squad” Raids by UK Special Forces Leave 200 Enemy Dead in Just 4 Weeks

SAS troops with sniper rifles and heavy machine guns have killed over 200 Islamic State extremists in a series of deadly quad-bike ambushes inside Iraq.
In daring nightime raids The British Special Air Services (SAS) “Quad Squads” kill up to 8 jihadis each day for the past 4 weeks. Using Chinook helicopters to drop highly trained snipers on quad-bikes deep into enemy territory, the SAS snipers sneak in silently and leave their enemy “lying dead on the ground” without anyone knowing what happened. The numbers may not be high, but the strategy is leaving the IS in a state of terror as allies prepare to wipe them off the map.

STRATEGY
In preparation for the attacks, SAS commanders listen to secret enemy communication intercepts and study hours of landscape footage of potential target sites recorded by drones. Once the targets have been identified, the soldiers gather to receive their classified orders. They then climb aboard a fleet of Chinook helicopters and leave their secret base with the quad bikes already loaded in the cargo hold. Each quad bike four-wheeled all-terrain vehicle is equipped with frame-mounted machine guns, general-purpose machine guns, and of course, sniper rifles.

The helicopter engines are so loud, the Chinooks take the SAS soldiers to a drop off point as far as 50 miles from the target to avoid detection. The snipers then head across the desert seeking out IS units and attacking the terrorists using the element of surprise under the cover of darkness.
An SAS source said:
“Our tactics are putting the fear of God into IS as they don’t know where we’re going to strike next and there’s frankly nothing they can do to stop us.”

Defense sources indicated last night that “soldiers from the elite fighting unit have eliminated ‘more than 50 terrorists each week’ in the daring raids carried out over the past month. “We’re degrading their morale.” said one soldier. “They can run and hide if they see planes in the sky but they can’t see or hear us. Using so many snipers takes the fear factor to another level too;
“the terrorists don’t know what’s happening. They just see their colleagues lying dead in the sand.”

The SAS’s nighttime guerrilla raids are targeting IS’s main supply depots and vehicle checkpoints the IS terrorists use to extort money or kidnap travelers.
Middle East military analysts question the UK’s strategy to defeat IS.
The Quad-Squad may not defeat the IS on their own, but you can be certain that they are taking their toll, not only in soldiers, but by leaving the survivors in a state of fear that is sure to diminish their military prowess!
:D:D:D:D

sitigeltfel
5th Feb 2015, 08:48
Of course the Yanks were only doing the world a favour when they toppled the first domino. They were only fixing the Anglo-French debacle that started it all in the first place..

Naive, delusional and apologist.

Islam has been spreading barbarism since its inception and will continue to do so anywhere it is not kept in check. Those who believe it can be assimilated into civilisation are blind to fact and dangerous to those they are elected to protect. You had your own taste of this with the Lindt coffee house siege. Better keep your excuses warm for the next manifestation by the religion of peace, down under.

Wingswinger
5th Feb 2015, 08:49
Daring night-time “Quad Squad” Raids by UK Special Forces Leave 200 Enemy Dead in Just 4 Weeks

Is that true :ok: or is it wishful thinking? Where did it come from? If it is true it's now in the public domain := so the daesh will know and they'll develop a counter. :mad:

Or perhaps the tactic has been rumbled and the ops have stopped so it's safe to publicise them.

pr00ne
5th Feb 2015, 08:52
Fliegenmong,

"...an SAS source said...."

Yeah, right.

mikedreamer787
5th Feb 2015, 08:53
I was thinking the same Mr swinger. What was your email source Fliegs?

stagger
5th Feb 2015, 09:08
The source for that story is The Daily Mail - famous for its accuracy in reporting...

SAS quad bike squads kill up to 8 jihadis each day as allies prepare to wipe IS off the map | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2845668/SAS-quad-bike-squads-kill-8-jihadis-day-allies-prepare-wipe-map-Daring-raids-UK-Special-Forces-leave-200-enemy-dead-just-four-weeks.html)

mikedreamer787
5th Feb 2015, 09:11
Of course - The Daily Schmale - noted for the integrity and accurate reporting by its thoroughly professional journalists. :hmm:

Stanwell
5th Feb 2015, 09:22
Yeah, OK, the Daily Wail - That figures.
I was thinking that piece had been composed by some teenager sitting in his bedroom.

Fliegenmong
5th Feb 2015, 09:23
A mate emailed to me ...... I was thinking why would this be published in the mainstream? And it never explained how they 'crept' up on quad bikes...but hey, I read it and thought what a gppd that 'd be!! It sort of perked me up a bit! :O

TWT
5th Feb 2015, 10:33
Must have those new electric quad bikes I guess,unless they are really using 4x4 Toyota Prius vehicles ;)

MagnusP
5th Feb 2015, 11:19
4x4 Toyota Pious vehicles

Do I HAVE to keep fixing this? :)

SOPS
5th Feb 2015, 12:20
What is the smallest nuclear weapon available that could be used. Serious question.

sir
5th Feb 2015, 12:55
What is the smallest nuclear weapon available that could be used. Serious question.

Why 'smallest' ? ;)

TWT
5th Feb 2015, 13:46
This one is pretty small.But its limited range means the launching crew might suffer a little bit of radiation :uhoh:

CzCPp-pRJ54

Lonewolf_50
5th Feb 2015, 14:43
IT doesn't matter "the smallest nuke" or its size/payload. No need to use a nuke.

I'd suggest FAE over tactical nuke as an intial weaponeering choice: less cleaning up(environmental) afterwards and nowhere near the political downside of using a nuke.

I seem to recall that there were nuclear tipped (special) SAMs in some inventories during the cold war. Not a very large warhead.

@ Flieg: seems that a Hollywood script writer is trying to get a film project off of the ground.

tony draper
5th Feb 2015, 14:56
I believe with a lot of modern nukes you just dial the yield you want in before you light the blue touch paper,were I in charge of the dial they would call me Maximum Yield Draper.
:rolleyes:

Lonewolf_50
5th Feb 2015, 15:36
Indeed, tony. Why take half measures? :}

421dog
5th Feb 2015, 20:26
I believe with a lot of modern nukes you just dial the yield you want in before you light the blue touch paper,were I in charge of the dial they would call me Maximum Yield Draper.



Dunno now, but when I used to have a few drinks with my dad, who ended out his career in the reserve as an enlisted guy in the early '60s on track to his first PhD and and army job maintaining fission weapons, apparently, " when it comes to yeild, it's all about the cesium"

tony draper
5th Feb 2015, 20:48
With Fusion weapons its the amount of deuterium or perhaps tritium you squirt onto the fission trigger,that's what I read anyway, I think Deuterium and Tritium is some kind of posh gunpowder.
:rolleyes:
One has to discourage the black helicotpers hasn't one

sitigeltfel
9th Feb 2015, 15:28
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/08/2577D69A00000578-2944946-Organisers_the_Muslim_Action_Forum_handed_a_petition_signed_ by_1-a-79_1423426200801.jpg



After the May 2025 General Election, the new UK Government moves into Downing Street.

:E

superq7
9th Feb 2015, 15:56
siti, your naughty but very funny.

Lonewolf_50
9th Feb 2015, 16:55
At the risk of cross posting from another thread, looks like a nice place for a Metal Augmented Charge.

Out Of Trim
10th Feb 2015, 06:30
Or more subtlety, a new Firing Squad Training Range has been set up... :E

VH-MLE
10th Feb 2015, 08:21
You reckon it will be that long??:eek:

Lantern10
12th Feb 2015, 23:42
Could this be an answer?

"If we can manage to convince the Chinese that Jihadists' testicles are
aphrodisiacs, within ten years they'll have disappeared...":ok:

G-CPTN
12th Feb 2015, 23:56
You reckon it will be that long??
Number of Muslim children in England and Wales doubles in a decade | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2950372/Number-Muslim-children-England-Wales-doubles-decade-one-12-school-pupils-brought-Islamic-faith.html)

VH-MLE
13th Feb 2015, 01:01
I once had the (foolhardy) view that we here in Aust could learn from some of the failed immigration policies of other countries in years gone by e.g. the UK, however unfortunately we don't and just blindly follow on down the same path with the same consequences...

VH-MLE

Lonewolf_50
17th Feb 2015, 15:05
You should get a job as a script writer for a sitcom! The USA. Fixing everyone else's mess since 1917 :ugh:Good come back, Hempy, :ok: but a better title would be:
The U.S.A.: Trying to Fix Everyone Else's Mess Since 1917.
(Not Having Time To Fix Own Messes)

FYI: My short attempt at a career as a screen writer ended a bit over ten years ago. It was not a success.
Of course the Yanks were only doing the world a favour when they toppled the first domino. They were only fixing the Anglo-French debacle that started it all in the first place..
"Spreading Democracy" has been a general American policy for about 200 years. (Granted, along the way we seem to have had to ally ourselves with some real despots ... you play the cards that are on the table. )
What reason would this nation have to change that general policy?
(Beyond the fact that the necessary social assumptions that underpin democracy don't always exist ... )

racedo
17th Feb 2015, 18:33
How did adventure in removing Gadaffi turn out ?
Freedom and democracy there ?

Jordan happily to allow attacks on Syria and train people on its territory.

It can't claim it didn't know what was happening.

Lonewolf_50
17th Feb 2015, 18:44
How did adventure in removing Gadaffi turn out ?
Freedom and democracy there ? What, isn't the Arab Spring a smashing success? The usual suspects were beside themselves with hope and naïve blubbering, weren't they?
Jordan happily to allow attacks on Syria and train people on its territory. It can't claim it didn't know what was happening. Oh dear, you are trashing the Arab Spring again! Do you mean to tell me that this movement was something other than the wonderful solution to all perils in the troubled Islamic world? :eek:

Say it ain't so, racedo! :{

Don_Apron
17th Feb 2015, 20:12
From someone (war criminal allegedly) who should know.

https://uk.screen.yahoo.com/cia-mossad-behind-boko-haram-214047965.html?vp=1

racedo
17th Feb 2015, 21:36
Oh dear, you are trashing the Arab Spring again! Do you mean to tell me that this movement was something other than the wonderful solution to all perils in the troubled Islamic world? :eek:

Say it ain't so, racedo! :{

Buddy................fraid so

Kind of works like this................lets get rid of the countrys where its reasonably safe from Islamic Extremists and put in Islamic extremists.
In a sane world it would be other way.

Funny how the UAE's and Saudi's of this world got off scott free........... oh wait they bankrolling NATO to do their bidding.

NATO now Saudi's bitch.

Lonewolf_50
13th Mar 2015, 15:07
Interesting short profile on an Iranian fellow who is working with Iraqi government forces against ISIS in Al Anbar.
Iran's Qasem Soleimani Is Guiding Iraqi Forces in Fight Against ISIS - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/iranian-gen-qasem-soleimani-guiding-iraqi-forces-fight-against-isis-n321496)
This gent is a dyed in the wool anti American, so maybe one of our special operators can drop a bullet on him while he's mucking about in Iraq. :E Qasem Soleimani may be enemy of our enemy, but he ain't our friend. Knocking him off would be nice pay back for some of his support to Hezbollah and the various IED's going off in Iraq over the past ten years. :cool:

The Iraqi forces are having their problems, so maybe they need his help.

The Battle of the Crater (US Civil War), 151 years later (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/40-iraqi-soldiers-die-after-isis-plants-300-ieds-under-n322796)...

Seems the ISIS moles tunneled under the Iraqi Army HQ and set a lot of mines. The mines went up, and 40 or so are dead.
Ouch.

dazdaz1
13th Mar 2015, 15:36
Basil.....

"Brusthom Ziamani, 19, was carrying a rucksack containing a 12-inch knife and a hammer, when he was arrested on a street in east London in August 2014"

The defence are claiming he's a Mason off to a Grand Lodge meeting.

dazdaz1
13th Mar 2015, 16:38
Basil... "Tsk, tsk; how could the arresting officer not have realised? :E" Nice one :D:D

Lonewolf_50
20th Mar 2015, 18:54
So why should the US stop? Because you are fcuking the planet. Go back to your Isolationist ways, please. Deny it all you like, but ISIS is the USAs gift to the world.
Sorry, you are wrong on two scores.
1. The Salafist and Caliphate Restoration movement well predated the 2003 move into Iraq.
2. You don't give enough credit to third world sorts who are not pleased with the world order as it is and choose to do something about that.
3. Your anti US axe grinding gets rather tiresome.
Isolationism is a myth. But if you want to go along with that myth, American Isolationism led to the enabling factors the got Hitler into power and provided no deterrent to his growth. The "Isolationist" move in no way kept American trade and commerce (and thus influence) from the rest of the globe. America has been an integral part of global trade, and thus global politics and influence, since it was a colony of English Kings. Suggest you take a look at "Speical Providence" by Meade to grasp some of your misconceptions of how American foreign policy is informed by internal political forces. It's a good basic treatment of the topic.

What the so called "Isolationists" wanted was to avoid alliances that bound us to fight the wars other people started. They also wanted to stick a finger into Wilson's eye and into Roosevelt's eye for purely domestic political reasons. The wisdom of that was thrown into some question with the rehash of the European Intramural Homicide, Chapter II, which we could not avoid participating in.

*A well traveled Brit explained the roots of ISIS very well a few months ago. ISIS roots are deep in the conflicts that brought the Sauds to power in Arabia. I posted a link a while back in another thread, I'll see if I can find it for you.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html
It's a two part article.

Note: the rise of ISIS was not a necessary result of American invasion of Iraq. It was a matter of a party unrelated seizing an opportunity, which was the same game Al Sadr and his cnuts were after at the same time. (Among others).

p.s My personal opinion is that 'spreading Democracy' is just lipservice for the electorate. 'Spreading America's Best Interest' is closer to the truth.
Agreed.

rh200
21st Mar 2015, 03:38
Because you are fcuking the planet. Go back to your Isolationist ways, please. Deny it all you like, but ISIS is the USAs gift to the world.

The US is not stuffing the planet. The world has always been in conflict its human nature, if anything, the US dominance has given us half a century of relative peace in a rapidly evolving era, both in social and technological terms.

Franky the changes that we have undergone across the planet in such a short amount of time is unheralded in human history. It a miracle its this stable. But then again, basic human nature to have tall poppy syndrome. If the US fall we all fall.

As for ISIS, all societies have extremists, they are just taking advantage of the opportunity we have given them. They don't need to much motivation, the media gives them the pictures of how we live and what we have become, and the mulla's do the rest, with a little help from Obama

Spreading America's Best Interest' is closer to the truth.

Its hard to work out an overriding motivation and its easy to go for the dark one, which could well be true. But the fact is, it has benefited fairly well every one else but the Americans. Their country is stagnant, much like ours (well getting there) and lot of third world countries are advancing on US and western consumerism. Europe all up, has advanced fairly well, so on the face of it, It looks like Its been more beneficial to the rest of us.

Hempy
21st Mar 2015, 04:43
How the US Made ISIS a Threat | The Diplomat (http://thediplomat.com/2014/09/how-the-us-made-isis-a-threat/)

Noam Chomsky: America paved the way for ISIS - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2015/02/16/noam_chomsky_america_paved_the_way_for_isis_partner/)

How the War on Terror Created the World's Most Powerful Terror Group | The Nation (http://m.thenation.com/article/181339-how-war-terror-created-worlds-most-powerful-terror-group)

Rand Paul: How U.S. Interventionists Abetted the Rise of ISIS - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/articles/rand-paul-how-u-s-interventionists-abetted-the-rise-of-isis-1409178958)

US invasion of Iraq helped create ISIS - former UN chief ? RT News (http://rt.com/news/230387-us-iraq-islamic-state/)

How America Made ISIS | Tom Engelhardt (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5751876)

RatherBeFlying
21st Mar 2015, 18:08
Never was an admirer of Saddam or the Assads, but one has to concede they kept the lid down and the Sikes Picot lines in place.

We are now seeing a redrawing of the lines between Kurds, Shi'as and Sunni.

The Kurd and Shi'a militias see no benefit in getting themselves killed in large numbers getting ISIS out of Sunni areas.

ISIS will be left in charge of Sunni areas until the local Sunni population has had enough. Mind you the local Sunnis under ISIS rule at least are not being ethnically cleansed by Shi'a militias.

The air strikes seem to have done the job of destroying all the US taxpayer provided weaponry ISIS took over from the Iraq "army".

As long as the Kurds and Shi'a are able to defend their own territories, we should simply provide them the necessary hardware and let them get on with it.

MG23
21st Mar 2015, 19:02
As long as the Kurds and Shi'a are able to defend their own territories, we should simply provide them the necessary hardware and let them get on with it.

And what do you do when those Kurds then decide to use that hardware to take Kurdish territory from Turkey? Would be kind of embarrassing for NATO to be providing the weapons used to attack NATO.

RatherBeFlying
21st Mar 2015, 20:15
The Kurds so far have proven wise enough not to bite off more than they can chew.

But yes, we don't want the Kurds getting any ideas of a greater Kurdistan that inappropriate heavy weaponry might incline them to. As long as ISIS tanks and artillery are gone, there's no need to outfit Kurds with same.

As long as no side has disproportionate heavy weaponry, the locals will sort it out among themselves.

meadowrun
22nd Mar 2015, 06:35
Yes, it's the Mail, but very interesting.


A grotesque love of propaganda. Unspeakable barbarity. The loathing of Jews - and a hunger for world domination. In this stunning intervention, literary colossus V.S. NAIPAUL says ISIS is now the Fourth Reich | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3005882/A-grotesque-love-propaganda-Unspeakable-barbarity-loathing-Jews-hunger-world-domination-stunning-intervention-literary-colossus-V-S-NAIPAUL-says-ISIS-Fourth-Reich.html)

Captain Sand Dune
23rd Mar 2015, 07:40
Interesting article. In a similar vein:
THERE was a time when author and activist Ayaan Hirsi Ali believed it all.
She believed that, according to Islam, the infidel should die, that the Koran is infallible, that those who violated sharia law — thieves, gays, adulterers — deserved to be stoned to death or beheaded, as they were each Friday in a public gathering place she and her brother called “Chop-Chop Square.”
Today, she is that rare thing: a public intellectual who, despite death threats and charges of bigotry, calls for an end to Islam — not just as the faithful know it, but as we in the West think we know it.
The assumption is that, in Islam, there are a few rotten apples, not the entire basket,” Ali tells The New York Post. “I’m saying it’s the entire basket.”
In her book, Heretic, Ali argues for a complete reformation of Islam, akin to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Though her own education led her to reject Islam and declare herself an atheist, she believes that for the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims, there must be another way.
“If you are a child brought up to believe that Islam is a source of morality” — as she was, in Africa and Saudi Arabia — “the Muslim framework presents you with the Koran and the hijab. I don’t want to be cruel and say, ‘You grow up and you snap out of it.’ But maybe we who have snapped out of it have not done our best to appeal to those still in it,” she says.
In Heretic, Ali says there are three kinds of Muslims. There are the violent, the reformers, and what she believes is the largest group — those who want to practice as they see fit and live peaceably but do not challenge the Koran, the Muslim world’s treatment of women and the LGBT community, or terrorist attacks committed in the name of Islam.
Yet she refuses to label this group as moderate. She believes they have done nothing to deserve it. “I’ve never believed in the word,” Ali says. “It’s totally useless. I think we’re in a time now where we demand answers from Muslims and say, ‘Whose side are you on?’ ”
Ali argues for five amendments to the faith. “Only when these five things are recognised as inherently harmful and when they are repudiated and nullified,” she writes, “will a true Muslim reformation have been achieved.”
Those five notions are:
• The infallibility of the Prophet Mohammed and the literal interpretation of the Koran
• The idea that life after death is more important than life on earth
• Sharia law
• Allowing any Muslim to enforce ideas of right and wrong on another
• Jihad, or holy war
Rejecting these ideas, some of which date to the seventh century, is a shocking proposition to the faithful.
“The biggest obstacle to change within the Muslim world,” Ali writes, “is precisely its suppression of the sort of critical thinking I am attempting here.”
Ali has first-hand experience. In November 2004, after collaborating with the Dutch artist Theo van Gogh on the documentary Submission — which criticised the Muslim world’s abuse of women — van Gogh was shot to death by a Dutch-Moroccan Muslim. The assassin attempted to decapitate him and stabbed him in the chest, leaving a note affixed by the knife. It was a death threat against Ali.
She was forced into seclusion and given a 24-hour security detail. Today, she lives with her husband and young son in the United States yet remains a target.
“In no other modern religion,” Ali writes, “is dissent still a crime, punishable by death.”
She knows the greatest criticism she faces is that she is Islamophobic, that she is accusing all Muslims of adhering to jihad, to abuse, to the establishment of a caliphate.
In the book, Ali cites a 2013 report by the Pew Research Center on Muslims’ beliefs. It found that in Pakistan , 75 per cent think those who leave Islam should be put to death. In Bangladesh , 43 per cent thought so. In Iraq , 41 per cent.
Those who believe sharia is the infallible word of God: 81 per cent in Pakistan , 65 per cent in Bangladesh and 69 per cent in Iraq .
She also cites a 2007 Pew study that found that among 18- to 29-year-old American Muslims, seven per cent had favourable opinions of al Qaeda, and they were twice as likely as older Muslims to believe suicide bombings in the name of their religion were warranted.
This is where Ali thinks the US administration under president Barack Obama has failed.
“He has acknowledged Islamophobia, which is the worst thing you can do for Muslims who are trying to turn things around,” she says. Whether it’s ISIS or al Qaeda or the Taliban or so-called lone wolves — such as the Boston Marathon bombers or the Charlie Hebdo attackers or the suicide bomber who blew up 15 Christians in Pakistan last week or the ISIS suicide bombing that left 137 fellow Muslims dead — when these people say they are killing in the name of true Islam, Ali says, believe them.
She accepts that Mr Obama’s administration is attempting a delicate balance — that to declare war on Islam is exactly what these fighters want — but says more can be done.
“Obama is saying, ‘Listen, Muslims, I’m on your side. I respect your beliefs, and I’d like you to help me fight these attacks committed in the name of your religion,’ ” Ali says. “He’s delivering, and they’re not.”
Western Europe, she says, is turning away from the threat of self-segregating Islamic immigrants at its grave peril. A 2009 study by the think tank Citivas found 85 operational sharia courts in Great Britain alone.
“I think with the Arab world, the West thinks we’re fighting an inferior enemy,” Ali says. “Look at the language we use: It’s jihad, it’s insurgency, it’s asymmetric.” Ali thinks the West, and the US especially, should look to the lessons of the Cold War and recognise we are waging a battle of ideas — that in 17 Muslim majority nations, the state religion is Islam.
“We did not say the Soviet system was morally equivalent to ours; nor did we proclaim that Soviet communism was an ideology of peace,” Ali writes. “In much the same way, we need to recognise that this is an ideological conflict that will not be won until the concept of jihad itself has been decommissioned.”
The greatest obstacle to an Islamic reformation is the diffuse nature of the religion itself. Unlike Catholicism, there is no leader, no papal equivalent to endorse or denounce jihad. In fact, there is no hierarchy of any kind, and any man who wishes can declare himself an imam.
Meanwhile, groups such as ISIS, al Qaeda and the Taliban are successful precisely because they have top-down leadership, codified warfare and an explicit, simple goal. “These groups are adapting to modern technology, to modern innovations in organisation and management,” Ali says. “They know that without a hierarchy, human beings understand nothing.”
She is gratified by the stance taken by Sam Harris, a prominent American neuroscientist and author of The End of Faith.
“Sam realises that among religions, Islam is unique in its atrocity, that everything we said about [violence in] Christianity and Judaism was hundreds of years ago. He calls Islam ‘the mother lode of bad ideas,’ which is extremely brave,” she says.
With Heretic, Ali is calling on those Muslims who reject jihad, acts of terror, and the subjugation of women and infidels to organise, to challenge, to speak out loudly and often against violence committed in the name of Allah — and she is calling on the West, to actively demand it.
“This is a transformation of the West as we know it,” she says. “We’re at the beginning, and what we do right now is going to be consequential.”
I reckon she's on the right track. However I also reckon she now has any number of fatwa's on her head and is a marked woman - all for daring to question the 'religion of peace'.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
23rd Mar 2015, 10:27
The idea that life after death is more important than life on earth

This is at the root of all religions.

probes
23rd Mar 2015, 11:24
the media gives them the pictures of how we live and what we have become
and they give media the extreme 'reality' (show would have to be added, but the fingers refuse to do that) - with the hypocritical 'warnings' of 'graphic' content or images.
Well, the gladiators used to be entertainers and 'fun for people', too, after all.

Lonewolf_50
23rd Mar 2015, 13:44
Hempy, if you soak up Chomsky's swill, I have a bit of marshland in Florida for sale ...

EDIT TO ADD:
It appears to take a lot of money (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-richest-terror-group-world-n326781)to run a caliphate, or a nascent caliphate.

One way to raise money: loot the bank in Mosul.
Another is via kidnapping and extortion payments.
Another is donations.

Next way is to tax ... whom?

Rather be Flying:
What is so special about the Sikes Picot lines staying in place?

RatherBeFlying
23rd Mar 2015, 22:56
What is so special about the Sikes Picot lines staying in place?

I'm in favor of realigning them so that local ethnicities and sects are left in charge of themselves.

The Ottoman vilayet boundaries are far more sensible, but certain North American subsidised real estate investments would be seriously compromised :p

Obama seems to have joined my proposition that the current state of affairs in Israel is "not sustainable":=

Edit: Martin Buber when he founded Brit Shalom in the '20s wrote much the same thing.

Lonewolf_50
24th Mar 2015, 15:37
I'm in favor of realigning them so that local ethnicities and sects are left in charge of themselves. How many UN sponsored operations and wars are necessary for that to happen? See the effort Bosnia, Kosovars, et all take/have taken. I sense a lack of will to continue to proceed along such lines. The "re aligning" seems to be taken in hand by some locals, much to the distress of the peace and love crowd. One way to redraw borders and lines is via Bismarck's old rule of blood and iron.
The Ottoman vilayet boundaries are far more sensible, but certain North American subsidised real estate investments would be seriously compromised :p Am I to understand that the Ottoman imperial lines are OK, but other Imperial lines are not? :p (Yes, I get your point). Plus, populations have shifted a bit ... they always do, don't they?
Obama seems to have joined my proposition that the current state of affairs in Israel is "not sustainable":= Edit: Martin Buber when he founded Brit Shalom in the '20s wrote much the same thing. I suspect most Israelis understand that and many of those are willing to fight to the last anyway.

Lonewolf_50
1st Apr 2015, 22:13
Well, the message is getting across, and getting across the pond.

Some of our local malcontents have tried to aid and abet the ISIS goals and aims.

Whoops, busted. (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/u-s-soldier-cousin-charged-isis-plot-n330656)

That :mad: at Fort Hood seems to have inspired a copy cat or two ... :mad:

Lonewolf_50
14th Apr 2015, 16:39
If you get a chance, go to the web sit of the Atlantic Monthly and have a read of the article: What ISIS really wants (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/). Follow ups are here (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants-reader-response-atlantic/385710/): It's a reasonably well researched and presented summary of what ISIS is about, and how it differs from other Salafist movements in the modern day. Some of the follow ups have links to criticisms of his article by people who spend their lives looking into modern Islam and historical Islam.

A few snippets from the back end of the article, after the author sets up the basic foundations of the restoration of the original caliphate: what he finds as the ultimate political and social goal of the current attempt at the caliphate (and that Baghdadai guy). One of the characteristics of ISIS is its self-limiting adherence to a particularly "pure" interpretation of Koran and the social norms of the Prophet's era, and even the medieval era. The author believes that within this world view lies the clues on how to fight or defeat them. (Whether he's right or not is open to discussion). Unlike the stuff Hempy links to, his article is not a polemic.
1. Non-muslims cannot tell Muslims how to practice their religion properly. But Muslims have long since begun this debate within their own ranks. “You have to have standards,” Anjem Choudary told me. “Somebody could claim to be a Muslim, but if he believes in homosexuality or drinking alcohol, then he is not a Muslim. There is no such thing as a non-practicing vegetarian.”

2. Anjem Choudary, for his part, says that no sin merits more vigorous opposition than the usurpation of God’s law, and that extremism in defense of monotheism is no vice.

3. Western officials would probably do best to refrain from weighing in on matters of Islamic theological debate altogether. Barack Obama himself drifted into takfiri waters when he claimed that the Islamic State was “not Islamic”—the irony being that he, as the non-Muslim son of a Muslim, may himself be classified as an apostate, and yet is now practicing takfir against Muslims. Non-Muslims’ practicing takfir elicits chuckles from jihadists (“Like a pig covered in feces giving hygiene advice to others,” one tweeted).

4. Fascism, Orwell continued, is psychologically far sounder than any hedonistic conception of life … Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people “I offer you a good time,” Hitler has said to them, “I offer you struggle, danger, and death,” and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet … We ought not to underrate its emotional appeal. Graeme Wood (http://gcaw.net/)is the author (a Canadian). It appears that he finds a link between religious based fascism / authoritarianism and previous, more secular fascism ... I suspect he'd be willing to refer to ISIS as Islamo Fascists. (For whatever good that does anyone).
EDIT
From the follow up piece, a response from a more or less 'pro ISIS' person (but online, who really knows? ;))
But the most interesting comments concerned my story’s popularity among ISISsupporters (referred to below with the shorthand "Muslims"). I wasunsurprised to see it shared online by Islamic State fans, at least somewhatpositively, but of course I was still uncomfortable about being praised byavowed génocidaires. One ISIS supporter wrote to me to note the peculiarity inall this. The piece, hesaid,
"…is grounded in realism, and argues that not understanding whatis happening is very dangerous, especially if fighting a war, one must fightthe war that is real, not the invented one that one wishes to fight. Perhapsironically, your[writings] ... are most dangerous to the Muslims (not that itis necessarily meant to be so on your behalf), yet they are celebrated byMuslims who see them as pieces that speak the truth that so many try to deny,but also because [Muslims]know that deep down the idealists of the world willstill ignore them.

What stands out to me that others don't seem to discussmuch, is how the Islamic State, Osama and others are operating as ifthey are reading from a script that was written 1,400 years ago. They not onlyfollow these prophecies, but plan ahead based upon them. One would thereforeassume that the enemies of Islam would note this and prepare adequately, but almost as if they feel that playing along would mean that they believein the prophecies too, and so they ignore them and go about things their ownway. ... [The] enemies of the Muslims may be aware of what the Muslims areplanning, but it won't benefit them at all as they prefer to either keep theirheads in the sand, [B][I]or to fight their imaginary war based upon rationalfreedom-loving democrats vs. irrational evil terrorist madmen. With this inmind, maybe you can understand to some degree one of the reasons why manyMuslims will share your piece. It’s not because we don't understand what it issaying in terms of how to defeat the Muslims, rather it’s because we know thatthose in charge will ignore it and screw things up anyway." That last sentence is too true, sadly.

Always Up
14th Apr 2015, 17:10
This is at the root of all religions.


Sorry Fox you usually make sensible posts but that one is just plain nonsense.

Lonewolf_50
14th Apr 2015, 17:18
Sorry Fox you usually make sensible posts but that one is just plain nonsense.
I've never cared for over simplistic descriptions of religion, faith and belief, since so much of it is bound to identity:
Who am I? Who are we?

The modern Western penchant for political separation of church and state (which has value) seems to have infiltrated thinking to where faith, religion and belief are both artificially and improperly filtered out as core social and political elements of the weave that is life as a human, which is life within a societal and group context. This filtration and denial is a case of wishful thinking.

Identity, and group identity, are huge when it comes to motivations. (Standard reference to Hoffer's "True Believer" is inserted here).

One of Wood's best points in the link I provided above is his criticism of people, like President Obama, who pretend that ISIS are people who have hijacked Islam. Hardly. But as with Christianity, there are a lot of takes on Islam, and a lot of flavors. This ideological strain is one among many. It is for some people the flavor of the month.

I wonder: how many Indonesians and how many Malaysians are "flocking to the banners" of ISIS. How many Pakistanis? How many Indian Muslims? What IDENTITY group does this current movement appeal to most? :confused:

Answers need not be on a post card. :}:8

Fox3WheresMyBanana
14th Apr 2015, 17:31
whoever loses his life for my sake will find it
Matthew 10:39

Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other.
Koran 4:74

etc.

Arguably Buddhism is a philosophy not a religion, but all others require their adherents to keep the Faith on pain of death, for the promise of the afterlife. Not all require martyrdom, but all expect it if circumstances lead to the choice of breaking the Faith or dying.

Lonewolf_50
14th Apr 2015, 17:35
whoever loses his life for my sake will find it
Matthew 10:39

Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other.
Koran 4:74

etc. Fox, citing scripture out of context does not an argument make. ;) One can preclude entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven by how one acts in the flesh. That too is in scripture, aplenty, if you'll bother to avail yourself of the whole book, with which I recall you are passing familiar. :ok:

Something about the goats and the sheep, and in how "as you have done for the least of these, so you have done to me" springs to mind. :cool:

Fox3WheresMyBanana
14th Apr 2015, 17:51
My argument stands, and the quotes are not, I think, out of context. Whilst there are many ways in all religions that one can lose the afterlife by living actions, it is true that sacrificing this life for the next, where the choice is denying the Faith, is seen as worthy.

Of course, atheists/agnostics may also (be prepared to) sacrifice their lives, or kill, with no promise of an afterlife, and like many Servicemen I would be one of them.

Find me a major religion that does not promise an afterlife.

Lonewolf_50
14th Apr 2015, 17:56
My argument stands, and the quotes are not, I think, out of context. Whilst there are many ways in all religions that one can lose the afterlife by living actions, it is true that sacrificing this life for the next, where the choice is denying the Faith, is seen as worthy.

Of course, atheists/agnostics may also (be prepared to) sacrifice their lives, or kill, with no promise of an afterlife, and like many Servicemen I would be one of them.

Find me a major religion that does not promise an afterlife.I'd need to refresh, but I think that the Tao isn't as big on afterlife as some of the larger religions.

Define "major religion" and explain to me how the "afterlife" is more important than "this life" since how one conducts one's self in this life qualifies or disqualifies one for same afterlife. That seems to be a common theme in all religions with a link to the afterlife, be it Hindu, Islam, Christian, or Animist creeds in play.

That (in bold) is the point of contention. It can't be more important, because it is in serial and entry to that next level has conditions. It seems to be an end to achieve, which aim can fail.

To quote mine scripture, since those are your RoE, faith without works is dead. You'll find that in James and Peter, if I am not mistaken. Even Martin Luther cherry picked, which does not argue well for the soundness of his movement. :p

PS: I will agree that martyrdom seems to be a popular feature in getting to fast track for tea and biscuits with the Almighty ... but it's NOT a requirement.

funfly
15th Apr 2015, 00:53
It seems to me that fear of death - of the unknown - is a basic human instinct.
It must not have taken long, thousands of years ago, for leaders to realise that you can control people very effectively by making their behaviour a contributory condition of what will happen to them after death.
This has to be the most powerful and effective population control system ever envisaged.
Obviously communities emerged which we now call religions, where this tool was used and continues to be used to this day.
There are many of us who think that this this is an unacceptable method of social control and who are unable to believe in some sort of God and the puzzling things that people are asked (required) to do if they wish to remain in their specific club.
However there are a great many people who seem to find that membership of one of these religions plays a big part in their lives and they are prepared to believe or do anything based on the carrot of a good life after death.
Clinging onto a religion even to the extent of dying for a so called belief is not an unusual characteristic of these 'believers'.

Lonewolf_50
15th Apr 2015, 13:46
There are many of us who think that this this is an unacceptable method of social control and who are unable to believe in some sort of God and the puzzling things that people are asked (required) to do if they wish to remain in their specific club.
What do you think is an acceptable method of social control?
Follow up question: why is social control needed?

Lonewolf_50
17th Apr 2015, 13:52
It sounds to me that ISIS is doing a great sales job to their target audience (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/born-u-s-inside-mind-isis-wannabes-n343181), even over here in the States.
The survey by Fordham Law School's Center on National Security found other common threads among the 25 people charged with supporting ISIS: They tend to be young and U.S.-born, and none is Arab.

A third of them wanted to provide non-military support of the terror group
that is bent on creating a single Islamic state — from financial assistance to bearing children for ISIS fighters, according to the study, which was based on a review of court cases filed over the last two years.

"The narrative is that they have bought into the idea of the caliphate that
they have romanticized," said Karen Greenberg, director of the Fordham center. As any good ad man will tell you, get your message out and get it to your target audience. The sales will follow.

Lonewolf_50
17th Apr 2015, 17:03
DHS: 40 ISIS volunteers have returned home (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2015/04/07/dhs-admits-40-americans-who-fought-with-isis-overseas-have-been-allowed-back-into-us--keeping-close-tabs-on-them-n1981863) “As I understand it, of the 180 Americans who have gone overseas to fight in Iraq and Syria, 40 have come back. I assume you're keeping close tabs on those 40?” 60 Minutes’ correspondent Lesley Stahl asked Johnson in an interview that aired Sunday.

“We have in fact kept close tabs on those who we believe have left and those who've come back. A number have been arrested or investigated and we have systems in place to track these individuals. But you can't know everything,” he responded.
Indeed, you don't even know if 180 (or 40) is the lot of them, do you? :p

There are fun and games aplenty at border crossing points, known and unknown, between Eagle Pass and El Paso. You really don't know who is entering this country, Mr Secretary. Please admit it.

ORAC
19th Apr 2015, 22:09
Isis video purports to show massacre of two groups of Ethiopian Christians (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/19/isis-video-purports-to-show-massacre-of-two-groups-of-ethiopian-christians)

Islamic State has released a video purporting to depict the massacre of 30 Ethiopians, the second incident of mass slaughter of Christians by the terror group in its redoubt in Libya.nThe beheadings and shootings publicised by the group are the latest assault on minorities across the Middle East, thousands of whom have been forced to abandon ancestral homes to flee the group’s broadening reach in the region.

It follows a video released in February that showed the beheading of 21 Egyptian Copts on the shores of the Mediterranean, a move that prompted air strikes by the government of President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi against the group’s stronghold in a Libya torn by civil strife. The footage, released on Sunday, depicts the brutal beheading of 15 Ethiopian Christians by masked Isis militants, their blood staining the surf on a strip of beach, as well as another scene in a desert landscape where masked gunmen shoot another 15 Ethiopians with rifles in the back of the head.

“To the nation of the cross, we’re back again,” says a masked militant in the video before the execution. “Muslim blood that was shed under the hands of your religion is not cheap. We swear to Allah ... you will not have safety even in your dreams until you embrace Islam,” he added.........

The video then shows scenes of Isis fighters destroying churches, crosses and paintings depicting the Virgin Mary, before moving on to show the massacre of the Ethiopian Christians, indicating the price of religious minorities defying the militant group’s edicts.......

“We tell Christians everywhere that the Islamic State will spread, God willing,” An-Nashwan says at the end of the video. “It will reach you even if you are in fortresses. Those who embrace Islam or jizya will be safe. But those who refuse ... will have nothing from us but the edge of the sword. The men will be killed, the women and children enslaved, and the money seized. That is Allah and the prophet’s judgment.”

Lonewolf_50
20th Apr 2015, 18:16
Iraqi officer under Saddam masterminded rise of Islamic State: Spiegel | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/19/us-mideast-crisis-is-mastermind-idUSKBN0NA0TW20150419)

Interesting look on what was suspected by some of us a decade ago in terms of going underground and setting up a resistance once the US had taken Baghdad. Saddam was not one to go quietly.

Lonewolf_50
21st Apr 2015, 16:29
Iraqi officer under Saddam masterminded rise of Islamic State: Spiegel | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/19/us-mideast-crisis-is-mastermind-idUSKBN0NA0TW20150419)

Interesting look on what was suspected by some of us a decade ago in terms of going underground and setting up a resistance once the US had taken Baghdad. Saddam was not one to go quietly. It seems that the rumors of his demise were, for the first time, true. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3047699/Paraded-glass-coffin-King-Clubs-returns-Baghdad-Body-ISIS-commander-former-Saddam-henchman-handed-authorities.html)

Hempy
21st Apr 2015, 18:10
Did you actually read it?

The story describes Bakr as being "bitter and unemployed" after U.S. authorities in Iraq disbanded the army by decree in 2003. Between 2006 to 2008 he was reportedly in U.S. detention facilities, including Abu Ghraib

It seems Abu Ghraib was a pretty good ISIS recruiting tool. Well done those men (and women..can't forget Lynndie, can we):ugh::ugh:

Drawing a pretty long bow bringing Saddam into this one, chief.

Lonewolf_50
21st Apr 2015, 18:54
Did you actually read it?
It seems Abu Ghraib was a pretty good ISIS recruiting tool. Well done those men (and women..can't forget Lynndie, can we):ugh::ugh:

Drawing a pretty long bow bringing Saddam into this one, chief.
Did you actually read the article on Al Douri? Suggest you do. That American politicians hid their heads in the sand and pretended that a multi faction civil war was not in progress after Saddam went into hiding (as did Al Douri, much more successfully) is a part of what led to thing going to rot. The other was the blatant "we are backing the Shia" position taken from the outset, which added to the way the Shia power grabs (there were multiple factions within that larger group, suggest you educate yourself on that, start with the fight for An Najaf in 2004) were taken by the other groups: any idea of various parties coming together for the greater good was nicely voided. The crap that went down in that prison is minor in comparison, though it certainly underscored the talking points for those who didn't believe a new Iraq being inclusive. You might also want to read the entire text of the NYT article you linked, whose author makes similar points. Life is has more depth than your little sound bytes, Hempy.

@ Basil: there were enough genuine articles that some people went to trial on our side, and IMO the charges did NOT go far enough up the chain of command. To say there was a leadership failure is a significant understatement.

rh200
22nd Apr 2015, 01:22
It seems Abu Ghraib was a pretty good ISIS recruiting tool

Yes it was, so what? The media was to blame for that. All wars no matter how pure you may like to think you are, will have bad apples that if not controlled will run amuck.

They and their commanding officers should have had the book thrown at them, and the media should not have made a big deal out of it.

Another words not used it as a political football by the left. The enemy doesn't need much help recruiting, they will always find an excuse. If you haven't noticed they can commit atrocities at will and you don't see outrage in the Muslim world.

West Coast
22nd Apr 2015, 02:47
Basil
Fake photos, didn't hear about that. Anyone at the paper held accountable?

Hempy
23rd Apr 2015, 11:17
ah, Piers Morgan. Who would have thunk it...:rolleyes:

I don't feel so bad about this one now :ok:

RCgAqNSAD1U

West Coast
23rd Apr 2015, 16:31
Thanks Basil. Getting fired isn't anything new to Piers these days.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
23rd Apr 2015, 17:06
It is said that Tony Blair's grave will simply have "IRAQ" on the headstone.

Jeremy Clarkson will have a monument to rival Nelson's Column, by public subscription, and it will read "Punched Piers Morgan in the Face" ;)

meadowrun
23rd Apr 2015, 20:07
As if things weren't crazy enough....


Deputy Head of Counter Terrorism at CPS said: 'Following an investigation by police in the North West Counter Terrorism Unit, we have today authorised charges for a 14-year-old male of two offences.
Deborah Walsh added: 'The first allegation is that, between 15 and 26 March 2015, the defendant incited another person to commit an act of terrorism.
'Namely to carry out an attack at an ANZAC parade in Australia with the aim of killing and / or causing serious injury to people.
'The second allegation is that on 18 March 2015, the defendant incited another person to behead someone in Australia.'


'We have determined that there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction and that a prosecution is in the public interest." DM

ricardian
24th Apr 2015, 15:04
https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11174803_970677392965800_2984930213999486977_n.jpg?oh=d12684 54bfcf1e087de386dec33cac96&oe=55D01F04

Lonewolf_50
10th Jun 2015, 18:57
It is an interesting perspective from someone in Syria, reaction to the UN World Heritage site's being damaged and how that got a lot of "the west" mourning.

I don't disagree with his point, from his PoV, but there is another angle on this: there are only so many well preserved historic sites that can help people study and connect with the heritage and history of civilization.

EDIT, because Alice in Wonderland would have been very comfortable in today's world ...

Is U.S. Claim of 10,000 ISIS Dead Believable? - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/u-s-claim-10-000-isis-dead-believable-n369181)

Some US reporters have asked if the body count claim by a State Department spokesman is credible.


The 10,000 cited by Blinken was a classified estimate that the Department of Defense and the military did not intend to release. It was not clear why he decided to announce it on Wednesday I know why he did it: he's yet another stupid State Department knut. Foggy Bottom turns them out by the bushel.

Let's see: just trainers advisors, body count math to indicate "progress" and we've somewhere seen this story before. It all smells of fish sauce. :mad:

Lonewolf_50
6th Jul 2015, 16:30
Isis invaded the al-Muthanna mega-facility 60 miles north of Baghdad in a rapid
takeover that the US government said was a matter of concern.
From this news story (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10913275/Isis-storms-Saddam-era-chemical-weapons-complex-in-Iraq.html).

Now someone needs to share with me: the US and various coalition partners were in Iraq from 2003 to 2010. I well recall the great search for CW. It was still on going when I was in theater of ops.

This facility had been examined by UN folks in 2002. It's not like it was a secret cache.

So, FFS, what on earth is the story here? If there were old chem materials still there in 2003, why the :mad: are they still there? We had seven :mad: ing years to sort that out.

If not, what's the big deal?
This story has me confused.

fitliker
6th Jul 2015, 17:17
The big danger will be if Putin allows more volunteers to fight in foreign wars. Like the Volunteers who went to help their Russian cousins in parts of the former Soviet parts of the Ukraine.
One third of Russia modernized military bows five times a day towards a monument, where a fallen angel once fell and is rumoured to rest. If that one third decides to volunteer it might get interesting. Even if only one division of Spetnaz GRU trained Russian volunteers,it could change the entire middle east.
It would wind the clock back to pre 1870's
I do hope Putin does not allow more Volunteers to fight in foreign wars.
He may be persuaded to allow it, if the west bombs a Russian friend and client state like Syria.

con-pilot
6th Jul 2015, 17:20
If not, what's the big deal?

Slow news day?

lomapaseo
6th Jul 2015, 17:24
The big danger will be if Putin allows more volunteers to fight in foreign wars. Like the Volunteers who went to help their Russian cousins in parts of the former Soviet parts of the Ukraine.

Volunteers are just that "freedom of choice" decisions. It's a rare state that effectively removes this freedom of volunteer status.

Equipment not on the black market is another issue however.

One way of deciding who is a volunteer is to kill or capture them and then decide if the state of that person tries to act on the consequences.

fitliker
6th Jul 2015, 17:37
Like the 2300 armoured Hummers that the Donald spoke of ?
All that equipment the Iraq army ran away left /gave to insurgents ?
Make you wonder if the 23 billion dollars wasted on their training was sub-contracted out to the cheese eating surrender monkies :)


Two speeds in their tanks run away and run away faster.......

Lonewolf_50
6th Jul 2015, 18:54
He may be persuaded to allow it, if the west bombs a Russian friend and client state like Syria.
If "the west" is bombing those who are foes of the Assad Regime, which ISIS surely is, then what?

ehwatezedoing
6th Jul 2015, 19:56
All that equipment the Iraq army ran away left /gave to insurgents ?
Make you wonder if the 23 billion dollars wasted on their training was sub-contracted out to the cheese eating surrender monkies :)

:rolleyes:

Lonewolf_50
6th Jul 2015, 20:42
:rolleyes:
Well, someone trained the Iraqis, and it appears that their Air Force are trying to earn their stripes. Not sure if this crew were trained by the folks who hit the Chinese embassy in Belgrade ... :p

An oops recently, Iranian jet dropped a bomb on Baghdad ... apparently on their way home from a strike mission versus ISIS.

An Iraqi military plane returning from a raid targeting ISIS positions
mistakenly dropped a bomb on a Baghdad neighborhood on Monday, killing or
wounded at least 16 residents, an official said.

Baghdad Neighborhood Accidentally Bombed by Iraqi Air Force - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/baghdad-neighborhood-bombed-iraqi-air-force-mistake-n387221)

Iraq fighter jet bombs Baghdad neighborhood killing civilians - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iraq-fighter-jet-bombs-baghdad-neighborhood-killing-civilians/)

fitliker
7th Jul 2015, 03:23
You can lead a horse to water ,but you cannot make it think.


Spending 23 billion dollars training people on how weapons function ,does not give them the will to fight.


In fairness, just like the Italians who had been fighting in Africa since 1922 ,had very little will to fight left when they met the allies during WW2 a dozen years later.
These sad Iraqis have been fighting for a long time. They have been fighting Iran for 9 years and Saddam and his brothers killed a lot of those who had any fight in them. So it should not be any surprise that only the meek are left in Iraq.


What would it take to give the Iraqi the will to fight, I would suggest Whiskey , Bourbon or Schnapps by the gallon, worked for my ancestors :)

rh200
7th Jul 2015, 07:06
There's no shortage of people willing to fight in Iraqi, and be good at it, statisically there just not in the Iraqi defence forces.

Most of them are in the Shia forces, Kurd forces or ISIS forces.

Lonewolf_50
7th Jul 2015, 14:20
There's no shortage of people willing to fight in Iraqi, and be good at it, statisically there just not in the Iraqi defence forces.

Most of them are in the Shia forces, Kurd forces or ISIS forces.
Shia Militia forces.

You make a core point: those three groups are fighting for something that they believe in.

The Iraqi government is so corrupt, it is no surprise they have trouble finding people who fight for them ... since they don't believe in them.

This is a lesson our own government needs to pay close attention to. We ask ourselves now and again when we meet exceptional soldiers, marines, airmen, sailors ... where do we find such men?
Well, one day we won't, if our government continues to erodes its own credibility. (This is aimed at both, or all three, parties here).

Hempy
10th Jul 2015, 15:40
ISIS members were trained by CIA (http://www.australiannationalreview.com/isis-members-trained-cia/)

fitliker
10th Jul 2015, 16:31
Ah crap, it is getting close to tin foil hat time and we ate all the peanut butter last night :)

con-pilot
10th Jul 2015, 17:08
ISIS members were trained by CIA (http://www.australiannationalreview.com/isis-members-trained-cia/)


Well that sneaky Obama, never can tell what mischief he'll get up to. :rolleyes:

Lonewolf_50
14th Jul 2015, 17:27
ISIS' chief singer and songwriter Maher Meshaal killed in Syria airstrikes, activists say - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-chief-singer-and-songwriter-maher-meshaal-killed-in-syria-airstrikes-activists-say/)

Their version of "Over There" and "Don't sit under the apple tree" will need someone else to compose and perform, it seems.

G-CPTN
5th Aug 2015, 13:01
Cleric Anjem Choudary charged with encouraging support for Islamic State | UK news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/05/cleric-anjem-choudary-charged-with-encouraging-support-for-islamic-state)

Lonewolf_50
5th Aug 2015, 13:06
If he supports the Islamic state, why doesn't he go over there and live in it?

Blacksheep
5th Aug 2015, 13:18
... because they don't do Housing Benefit?

SOPS
5th Aug 2015, 14:00
If he hates the place so much, why has ne not been deported?

goofer3
5th Aug 2015, 16:46
No body with the guts just to kick him out, [or fearful of the human rights lawyers].

Stanwell
5th Aug 2015, 17:07
Well, I wear size 10 boots. Can I be of assistance?

ehwatezedoing
13th Nov 2015, 15:28
Oh Yah, Jihadi John, the boys are coming, bye, bye

Looks like they did:
air strike targets Islamic State militant in Syria (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34805924)
BBC Washington correspondent Gary O'Donoghue said US agencies would now speak to intelligence sources on the ground and listen to emails, phone calls and messages to "see what the chatter is".
He said the US had claimed to have killed militants in the past who turned out to be alive.
"But I think the speed with which they came out with this announcement... suggests they are reasonably certain they did get Jihadi John," he added.

Say what you want about the "drone's tactics" I like it.

Simplythebeast
13th Nov 2015, 15:46
Jeremy Corbyn would have preferred for 'Jihadi 'John' to jave faced court proceedings. So how would he propose to arrange that as someone who is anti war then? He would need to put boots on the ground to effect an arrest resulting in considerable casualties.
He really does need to get a grip.

glad rag
13th Nov 2015, 15:54
Jeremy Corbyn would have preferred for 'Jihadi 'John' to jave faced court proceedings. So how would he propose to arrange that as someone who is anti war then? He would need to put boots on the ground to effect an arrest resulting in considerable casualties.
He really does need to get a grip.

Can't tell you how disappointed I am that there will be no head on a spike at Traitors Gate.

N707ZS
13th Nov 2015, 16:12
Hopefully Jihadi John is now in Jahannam with the rest of his friends.

sitigeltfel
13th Nov 2015, 16:19
Can't tell you how disappointed I am that there will be no head on a spike at Traitors Gate.

Jihadi Johns, or Corbyns? ;)

Krystal n chips
13th Nov 2015, 16:39
Traitors Gate ?....."Jihadi Johns, or Corbyns? " ....I can think of another name to be added to the list.

To save the spluttering indignation.....I have NO concerns about the demise of the target or how it was achieved.

Wingswinger
13th Nov 2015, 16:39
One really would have preferred that the drone and Hellfire had been operated by the boys and girls at RAF Waddington.

elandel
13th Nov 2015, 16:49
In the words of BSM Williams:
Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.

megan
13th Nov 2015, 17:39
Oh dear. How sad. Never mind+1

TRF57c52KKg

sitigeltfel
13th Nov 2015, 18:20
Is it true that the target can hear the missile coming in the last few seconds before it strikes? The noise the guidance fins produce while making final adjustments, or something like that?
It would be nice to know that he had sufficient notice to fill his pants!

Simplythebeast
13th Nov 2015, 18:23
He was in a car apparently so probably didnt know a thing. Probably the best death you could ask for and that cruel shit was handed it on a plate.
Shame it wasnt a missile full of barbed needles detonating a few yards away, much more fitting.

Xenophon
13th Nov 2015, 20:34
I do believe that BSM Williams was wont to say :

Oh dear, how sad , what a shame , never mind.

Pedant mode is now disengaged. Thank you.

EGTE
13th Nov 2015, 21:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4uivPpzCGo

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

West Coast
13th Nov 2015, 21:32
Has the beeb condemned the US yet for offing him, if true?

Rosevidney1
13th Nov 2015, 21:33
Or even "Oh dear, what a pity, never mind!":)

pr00ne
13th Nov 2015, 22:28
West Coast

How on earth is the BBC able to "condemn" anything? It reports the news, it's not a newspaper, it doesn't have an editorial, and if you saw the coverage of the various video beheadings this piece of shit was involved in you would certainly NOT expect any condemnation, if anything the opposite.

Romeo Oscar Golf
13th Nov 2015, 23:27
Jeez pr00ne....I agree with you!!! Time for a wee dram.

G-CPTN
28th Nov 2015, 22:43
IS blamed for mass Yazidi grave found near Sinjar, Iraq (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34954233)

West Coast
28th Nov 2015, 22:57
Proone

It was tongue in cheek, your reply raises a question however. Do you think the BBC doesn't have a bias?

con-pilot
28th Nov 2015, 23:06
The BBC have a bias, surely you jest. :p



Yeah, yeah, and don't call you 'surely'. ;)

SASless
29th Nov 2015, 00:23
Westy,

You know darn well there is no Bias possible from a Left Leaning source, individual, or organization....that can only exist with Conservatives.

Think so....ask any one of them.....oh sorry!



Funny how those ISIS bad asses cry and carry on when it is their turn!

John Hill
29th Nov 2015, 02:20
Even reality has an undeniable 'lefty' bias.;)

Lantern10
29th Nov 2015, 03:24
Funny how those ISIS bad asses cry and carry on when it is their turn!

They most certainly do.

ISIS fighter cries in video after being captured by Kurdish forces in Iraq | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337295/Not-tough-ISIS-fighter-cries-like-baby-captured-Kurdish-forces.html)

Krystal n chips
29th Nov 2015, 03:54
" You know darn well there is no Bias possible from a Left Leaning source, individual, or organization....that can only exist with Conservatives.

Think so....ask any one of them.....oh sorry!"


Have you ever actually watched the range of BBC programmes and their content at all ?...or even listened to the radio broadcasts ?

Or do you simply stand to attention watching that well known pragmatic organisation broadcasting to the world known as.....Fox.

ORAC
29th Nov 2015, 08:26
Even reality has an undeniable 'lefty' bias. Indeed

Life's 'Left-Handed' Amino Acids Still A Puzzle (http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedorminey/2013/06/29/lifes-left-handed-amino-acids-remain-astrobiological-head-scratcher/)

KnC, not sure what the problem is, even the BBC admit they have a bias - as do their recent employees.

Now even the BBC admits it is biased to its very core (http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/412637/Now-even-the-BBC-admits-it-is-biased-to-its-very-core)

Mark Thompson: 'There was massive left-wing bias at the BBC' (http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/09/lecture-thompson-bbc-interview)

Rosevidney1
29th Nov 2015, 09:30
Only Trots and Marxists would even think of denying the obvious bias of the Bolshevik Brainwashing Commissar's. Recognise any posters fitting that description?

Hempy
29th Nov 2015, 10:40
Actually, I believe Goebbels denied any 'bias' as well...

PingDit
29th Nov 2015, 14:54
I received this to my amusement.....

Syrian Conflict Explained


I ​ HOPE THIS CLEARS UP ANY CONFUSION YOU MAY HAVE.​
A highly restricted briefing document on Syria....

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (hurrah!).

But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State (who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)

So the Americans ( who are good ) started bombing Islamic State ( who are bad ) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels ( who are good ) so they could fight Assad ( who is still bad ) which was good.

By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS (which is a good thing) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria.

So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad ( who is still bad ) by attacking ISIS ( who are also bad ) which is sort of a good thing?

But Putin (still bad) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).

Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So a Coalition of Assad ( still bad ) Putin ( extra bad ) and the Iranians ( good, but in a bad sort of way ) are going to attack ISIS ( who are bad ) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels ( who are good ) which is bad.

Now the British (obviously good, except that nice Mr Corbyn in the corduroy jacket, who is probably bad) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin ( bad ) and Iran (good /bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to ISIS (who are super bad).

So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than ISIS (but let’s face it, drinking your own wee is better than ISIS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting ISIS that may now make them Good.
America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join ISIS (still the only constantly bad group).

To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of ISIS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see ISIS as Good (Doh!)

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmm.... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as bad.

So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to ISIS (good/bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, good ) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?

I hope that clears all this up for you.

lomapaseo
29th Nov 2015, 16:30
Did I read that that Sunni muslims might end up fighting and killing Shia muslims or the other way around:confused:

Can't be all bad

We in the US can just watch from our TV sets with a bowl of popcorn.

That reminds what teams are playing on the TV today ?

The Nip
29th Nov 2015, 17:03
After reading this and many posts on Isis, Islam, Muslims or whatever way you describe the problems and the cause of the problems.

My question is, what is the endgame?

By bombing Isis in Syria and Iraq will this eliminate the current problem? Even if Syria is purged of these extremists will it end the problem? Will another group rise up and take on the battle against the Infidel? Biko Harem are reported to be more savage than Isis.

If as many believe that it is an interpretation of the Quran that people react to how can this problem ever be eradicated?

I fear that those young children today are going to find their lives blighted by a never ending war.

There is an answer but it would never be palatable in today's world.

oicur12.again
29th Nov 2015, 17:41
Best way to understand Syria is to read about:

Gazprom.
Friendship gas pipeline.
Nabucco gas pipeline.
South Pars/North Dome gas field.

The violence in Syria and the manufacturing of ISIS will make more sense.

jolihokistix
30th Nov 2015, 08:21
IS/Daesh killed at least 1,500 in terrorist attacks this year so far...(?)


Mapping ISIL?s attacks in 2015 - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2015/11/mapping-isils-attacks-2015-151126052358096.html)

ATNotts
30th Nov 2015, 08:33
The most obvious bias is not the (alleged) left wing bias of the BBC, but the extreme right wing bias of most of the contributors to Jet Blast!

ORAC
30th Nov 2015, 08:43
It's a matter of where you stand, the Corbynistas regard the majority of the shadow cabinet and Labour MPs as Red Tory class traitors.........

ORAC
30th Nov 2015, 11:34
Streetwise Professor: Erdogan Actually Does What Putin’s Enemies Implausibly Accuse Him of Doing: Exploiting the Syrian Refugee Crisis (http://streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=9705)

One theme pushed very hard by Putin oppositions, including people like Garry Kasparov and numerous Ukrainian bloggers and tweeters, is that Putin is deliberately creating the refugee crisis in the EU. There is no doubt that he is benefitting, but there is no evidence that he is doing anything to create it. He gets it without having to lift a finger.

The refugee crisis is indeed creating huge political stresses in the EU that are benefiting rightist opposition parties (e.g., the National Front in France) that are sympathetic to (and in some cases, partially funded by) Russia. This redounds to Putin’s benefit, but he didn’t create the problem. The problem is largely due to the Syrian civil war, but not completely: only about one-half of the migrants swarming into Europe are Syrian. The other major contributor is European policy, notably Merkel’s grandiose humanitarian gesture, which served to open the flood gates.

No doubt Putin is pleased, but I cannot identify anything that he has done, that he wouldn’t have done anyways: for him, the refugee fallout is a happy unintended consequence. He has been all in for the Syrian government from the get go, and has supported its ruthless campaign. This has contributed to the refugee flow, but Putin would have done the same regardless.

One country that has definitely leveraged the refugee issue to its advantage is Turkey. Today, with great fanfare, Turkey and the EU announced a grand bargain whereby the EU would pay Turkey €3 billion, grant it visa free travel, and reopen Turkish accession talks. The €3 billion is to be used to improve conditions for Syrian refugees in Turkey. In return, Turkey will slow the flow of refugees to Europe.

In other words, Erdogan successfully blackmailed Europe. Unlike Putin, Erdogan can exercise considerable control over the flow of Syrians to Europe. He has basically exercised no control heretofore, and Europe has been overwhelmed. They have now agreed to pay Turkey to keep them, and also given Turkey other very important concessions to make it worth Erdo’s while.

This is bad news for Putin. Putin has been trying to leverage his role in Syria to get concessions from Europe on other issues, but as I have written before, he really doesn’t have that much leverage. Erdogan has leverage, and has just demonstrated that he can and will use it. He can also use it to make the Europeans think twice about making any concessions to Putin that would compromise Turkish interests in Syria. And since Turkish interests and Russian interests are close to zero sum there, this means that he wins, and Putin loses when he uses that leverage. Erdogan has therefore proved to Putin who has the whip hand in dealing with the Euroweenies.

When it comes to Syria, Erdogan’s policy is deeply problematic, to put it mildly. His policy towards ISIS can most charitably be described as ambivalent. He is certainly not an ardent foe, and is arguably an enabler–or worse. He is far more interested in crushing the Kurds, who happen to be the most reliable anti-ISIS force in the region. In that respect, Erdogan is objectively pro-ISIS. There is a colorable case that he is subjectively pro-ISIS as well. Furthermore, Turkey has been the main supporter of the Islamist forces–including al Qaeda-forces–fighting Assad. Once upon a time, supporting groups like this would have earned a star turn in the Axis of Evil.

Domestically, Erdogan is doing his best Putin imitation of crushing domestic opposition, including the arrest of journalists. Some antigovernment figures have been murdered (e.g., the Kurdish lawyer killed over the weekend), another similarity to Russia.

Thus, there is little to choose from between Erdogan and Putin in Syria. Indeed, as bad as Assad is, the Islamists fighting him are worse, so the nod goes to Putin here.

Unfortunately, the Kasparovs and Ukrainians who are so obsessed with Putin are completely in the grips of the enemy-of-my-enemy mindset that they are going all in for Erdogan and the Islamists for Syria. They are fighting Putin, so they must be great, right?

Wrong. They are dangerous and despicable, and Erdogan does a pretty good Putin doppelgänger impression.

It is possible to oppose Putin and Russia in Ukraine and elsewhere in Europe, without embracing his enemies in Syria. It is not only possible, it is necessary. Putin’s actions in Ukraine challenge the entire post-War order in Europe, and are deeply destabilizing. Indeed, they deeply challenge the Westphalian system that Putin and Russia claim to defend in Syria, Libya, the Balkans, and elsewhere, and constantly lecture the world about in the UN and elsewhere. So those actions should be opposed, and Europe and Nato in particular have to raise their games.

But that issue is completely separable from what is going on in Syria. And those whose hatred of Putin leads them to whitewash (and worse) Erdogan and the murderous Islamist anti-Assad forces in Syria are wrong as a matter of policy. This also deeply compromises their moral authority and undercuts their opposition to Putin in Russia and Ukraine.

Enemy-of-my-enemy logic almost always leads to a dead end, or worse. It prevents critical thinking, the ability to discriminate between threats, and between degrees of evil. All of that is particularly true in Syria, because siding with Putin’s enemies means siding with murderous Islamists, and a megalomaniacal would be emperor who is actually doing what Putin is only accused (rather implausibly) of doing: exploiting the refugee crisis in Syria in order to obtain political benefits from Europe.

SASless
30th Nov 2015, 12:40
Ping,

That Document was read to Obama who being the Constitutional Scholar that he is....immediately concluded that Global Warming was the greatest danger to World Peace thus removing Syria from any real consideration as a US National Security Issue.

That was borne out by his recent statement that ISIL or Dash (depending upon which label he wishes to use on that particular Day) are JV'ers and have been contained by his Foreign Policy that reset American/Russian relations and brought Peace to the Middle East and Northern Africa.

His Leading from behind has been so successful in bringing about Regime Change and Nation Building that the wisdom of the Nobel Prize he won before taking Office seems very well deserved.

We are so fortunate to have a President such as Mr. Obama who is so far ahead of the rest of the World's Leaders in his understanding of International Affairs and Conflict Resolution.

Why look how well Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Egypt, Afghanistan, and Nigeria have turned out as a direct result of his amazing Leadership!

Along with Hail to the Chief.....the Marine Band shall soon be playing Kumbaya at every opportunity when he appears before the Public.

zac21
1st Dec 2015, 02:44
Subject: Fighting Fire With Fire (A part of current history)



First the tough French Foreign Legion —Now the fearsome Russian Spetsnetz.... (special forces)..!! BIG shit coming —for the ISIS..!

RUSSIAN SPECIAL FORCES: HAS ISIS MET ITS FEAR MERCHANT MATCH?

by JAMES ZUMWALT Oct 2015649

ISIS is a fear merchant. It depends heavily upon using fear to intimidate those opposed to it.

In its high-publicized videos, legions of soulless bodies fill its ranks, regularly demonstrating limitless savagery in executing their enemies. Be-headings, burning prisoners alive, attaching bombs to babies to show new recruits how explosives rip a human body apart, running tanks over prisoners, etc.— no means of execution is beyond the pale as they market fear.

But fear can be a double-edged sword. A force capable of demonstrating this has just entered the fray in Syria. Having used fear previously very effectively against Muslim extremists, this force looks to do so again—only this time its blade will come down on ISIS.

Russian President Vladimir Putin recently dispatched a military group in which he has great pride and confidence—his special forces—to Syria. The group has been honed into a uniquely skilled counter-terrorism killing machine, known in Russia for getting the job done.

Russia’s special forces originated out of a terrorist act perpetrated more than four decades ago by another violent Muslim group.

In Munich, Germany, Palestinian terrorists of Black September kidnapped and killed eleven Israeli athletes and a German police officer during the 1972 Summer Olympics. The attack prompted the head of the KGB (the Soviet secret police), Yuri Andropov, to order the creation of a special military force trained in counter-terrorism.

With its establishment two years later, the force initially was used for domestic security. But once deployed outside the homeland, it quickly established a bloody reputation for itself.

Comparable to our own elite fighters of US Delta Force, Russian special forces have an operational edge ours do not. While battlefield actions by U.S. forces will, appropriately, always be defined by the laws of land warfare, Russian special forces historically have tossed their moral compass aside. By doing so, they convey a clear message—in blood—to adversaries.

After Moscow invaded Afghanistan in December 1979, Russian special forces were tasked to implement “regime change.” Wearing Afghan uniforms, they quickly secured strategic government buildings in Kabul. Storming the presidential palace, they followed through on orders to kill every Afghan in the building. Not only was Afghan President Hafizullah Amin killed along with his mistress and young son, but so too were all witnesses.

Russian special forces played a significant role in Afghanistan throughout the ten year war. But their reputation for taking whatever action necessary to complete its mission was cemented in Lebanon.

In October 1985, a radical Muslim Brotherhood splinter group kidnapped four Soviet diplomats in Beirut. By the time Russian special forces reached the city, one of the diplomats had already been executed.

As Moscow’s policy was never to negotiate with terrorists, no effort was made to do so. Using a network of informants, the Russians identified the militant group responsible and the kidnappers involved.

With the kidnappers’ names in hand, the Russians immediately rounded up their family members, taking them hostage. They then cut off hostages’ body parts, delivering them to the militants along with the threat to continue making deliveries.

The militants got the message. The surviving Russian diplomats were immediately released. For two decades thereafter, Russian diplomats operated safely abroad without fear of becoming targets of Muslim terrorists.

But in 2006, Putin had to call upon his special forces again after four Russian officials in Iraq were abducted and murdered. He gave the order those responsible were to be “destroyed.” Each of the militants involved was hunted down and killed.

Russian naval special forces also have not shied away from playing the fear card. In 2010, the forces confronted Somali pirates.

Operating from their mother ship, the Somalis pirated a Russian oil tanker. Russian naval special forces boarded the tanker, easily routing the pirates, taking them captive and putting them back on board their mother ship. There, the pirates were securely tied up and the mother ship fitted with explosives. Once back on their own ship, the Russians detonated the explosives.

No Russian ship since then has been pirated.

Russian special forces have demonstrated they can rise to the same level of violence as ISIS.

As they hit the ground running in Syria, the Russians will set out—aided by their Iranian and Syrian friends—to establish informant networks to identify, locate and kill ISIS leaders. Where possible to do so, they will ensure they die a violent death in a way that conveys the message they seek to send.

If there is an Arabic word for “karma,” ISIS will soon be muttering it.
:ok::ok::ok:

MTOW
1st Dec 2015, 03:46
Totally unPC, but I'd guess that there'd be more than a few citizens of quite a few Western cities who'd be not unhappy with the idea of inviting the Russian SF troops to take up residence for a week or two of R&R in certain parts of their cities.

RatherBeFlying
1st Dec 2015, 05:11
Erdogan/ISIS or Putin/Assad present an unsalubrious choice.

Given that the EU and 5 Eyes countries have raised a hue and cry against ISIS, accommodations are being made with the current lesser evil.

Erdogan will shortly have to change his double game. Shooting down a Russian plane over an area where Turkmen rebels happily took advantage of the opportunity to shoot one of the crew while under a chute was most unwise:=

The French are hitting Raqqa. The Russians seem to be carpet bombing the area where the crewman got shot. Plus Erdogan fils is taking a hit in the wallet as the Russians take out ISIS tanker trucks.

Turkey itself is going through some civil upheavals. A prominent lawyer assassinated during a press conference is even more brazen than Putin who is not known to be gentle with lawyers who get in his way.

Hempy
1st Dec 2015, 06:44
This should explain it :ugh:

NKb9GVU8bHE

ORAC
1st Dec 2015, 08:23
ISIS Tax Base (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/30/world/middleeast/predatory-islamic-state-wrings-money-from-those-it-rules.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)

Well researched article. Points out that oil is only a small part of the cash they raise and they only way to close them down is to physically take away the territory they hold with boots on the ground.

Lonewolf_50
1st Dec 2015, 13:18
The Russians seem to be carpet bombing the area where the crewman got shot.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
@zac: interesting article on the Speznaz.

er340790
1st Dec 2015, 15:12
I'm beginning to think they may just be right too!

:D :D :D

Tis the season to count our blessings and thank our leaders for yet another new war in the Middle East.

In this time of great and exalted excitement, let us be especially thankful this year for a new war against a new enemy.

Or maybe just a reboot of an old war against an old enemy. Either way, it’s all good.

Paris was attacked, rather than New York or London or Madrid, by ISIS rather than al Qaeda, but here we are again in yet another “civizational conflict—either we win or they win.”

Thank God for a renewed sense of common purpose in these desultory, fractured, and hyper-partisan times. Let us not overthink this new-old war because that would be weak. The drums, after all, are already pounding out a pleasing, quickening beat for more bombs and more troops in Iraq and Syria.

Let us just be thankful for the struggle that we have been waging for virtually all the 21st century: the Global War on Terrorism, GWOT, whose acronym sounds like something from the Old Testament or a next-generation PlayStation 4 release, and thus is attractive to the vast range of young people who will be asked to bear its burdens, shoulder its sacrifices, and (eventually, when the loans finally come due) pay its bill.

War is a force that gives us meaning, war is the health of the state, and war is no longer hell, even though it’s still kind of rough on the men and the women who fight it either in person or via remote control. And it’s still very rough on the innocents whose only sin—a mortal one, alas—was to be born in the wrong place and the wrong time.

This is a “crusade against evil,” said George W. Bush back when the rubble of the World Trade Center was still smoldering like the fires of Gehenna and the terror of Paris was off in the future. “We have found our moment and our mission,” he said. And so we have, forever and ever amen.

Different presidents and different parties have since prosecuted the war and declared victory. But we’ve never come home from Afghanistan, Iraq, or anywhere else. Indeed, we have since sent more soldiers around the globe, in Syria, Nigeria, Central Africa Republic, and elsewhere.

While our nation’s partisans and politicians argue amongst themselves about who is tougher, more determined, and thus more patriotic, these disagreements are differences in degree rather than kind. Some leaders surged in Iraq, others in Afghanistan; that neither action accomplished anything lasting is unimportant. Some in-sourced torture and started mass surveillance, while others outsourced torture, increased surveillance, and tossed secret kill lists into the mix. Some invaded foreign lands under false pretenses, others invaded without constitutional authorization. “What difference at this point does it make?” explained someone.

The important thing—the only thing—that matters is the leading candidates for the presidency have all declared that they will continue GWOT, especially in Syria and Iraq, at the Mexican border (even as Mexicans flood back south), and at every job in America via work databases. “ISIS is not going away,” at least not until it is replaced by whatever grows up next, fertilized by the new bombs and bodies we drop on the rich soil of Mesopotamia.

Our mission—to bring to justice those responsible for 9/11, to rebuild Ozymandias’ ruins wherever we find them, whatevs—-still is unaccomplished, which means our common purpose still binds us together and makes us exceptionally American.

The real purpose of war, especially a war against a tactic rather than a specific enemy, is not to win but to keep on fighting.

The ultimate effect of constant war is to distract us from everything else, from the excruciatingly boring and uninspired details of everyday life and everyday governance, especially from failed attempts to restart the economy, to fix healthcare, to pass a budget, and to regain the trust of the American people.

Constant war means not only that we can—thankfully—keep fighting the last war but also that we can refuse to ask, much less understand, anything about its objectives, tactics, and lack of efficacy.

The greatest gift of war, of “civilizational conflict,” is that it makes it possible to ignore the soul-crushing ironies of history both big and small.

How can we acknowledge that we are fighting on the same side as Bashar al-Assad, the very dictator whose regime we seek to destroy?

How can we appreciate that our strongest allies in the current fight, Russia and Iran, are our sworn enemies in every other context? And that other friends—the Saudis, for instance—are not only the enablers of terrorists but practitioners of medieval, anti-modern justice?

How can we live with ourselves refusing refugees—even orphaned children—from a part of the world we’ve done so much to destabilize?

How can we not understand that after years of uninterrupted bombing, droning, and killing that we are supposedly less safe not despite our war but because of it?

And that there are other ways of combating terrorism and defending American lives and interests than repeating precisely what has failed not in distant memory but the immediate past?

This is why we should be thankful this year for a new war.

Lonewolf_50
1st Dec 2015, 16:27
War is a force that gives us meaning, war is the health of the state, I am guessing that this satire was written by Chris Hedges, since the bolded part is the title of a book that he wrote. He's a bit of a hypocrite, for all that his criticisms of government often have merit, since he made his living for two decades as a war correspondent for a major paper, 70's through 90's and admitted to being addicted to the adrenalin buzz and fear that being in such a situation evokes.

If it wasn't written by him, some of his standard tag lines have been borrowed.

ORAC
1st Dec 2015, 16:39
Lone wolf_50,

Doing a search, it's a piece by Nick Gillespie (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/28/mark-twain-s-2015-war-prayer.html)

Nick Gillespie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Gillespie)

Lonewolf_50
1st Dec 2015, 18:06
Lone wolf_50,

Doing a search, it's a piece by Nick Gillespie (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/28/mark-twain-s-2015-war-prayer.html)

Nick Gillespie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Gillespie)OK, so he borrowed a few of Hedges' favorite lines. Good for him. IIRC, Hedges has provided some pieces for his (Libertarian) web site, but that may be my memory fogging up.

Avitor
1st Dec 2015, 18:16
Meanwhile those capable of fighting for their OWN country are hanging around Calais. Boots on the ground should involve them, not UK forces....again!

funfly
1st Dec 2015, 18:25
Vietnam
Falklands
Iraq
Lybia
Next?

Lonewolf_50
1st Dec 2015, 18:48
Vietnam
Falklands
Iraq
Lybia
Next?Can you explain why you lumped those four together? Each had its own political reason to happen. For example, I'd not put Viet Nam and Falklands in the same category.

Mr Oleo Strut
1st Dec 2015, 19:15
Isle of Wight?

Sallyann1234
1st Dec 2015, 22:41
Meanwhile the other bunch of murderous Islamists carry on unhindered:

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/47BD/production/_86956381_saudi.png

SASless
2nd Dec 2015, 00:02
Sally.....is being a Christian an equivalent crime to being a Murderer in your opinion?

ISIS will hack off your Head for having the wrong Religion.....not so in Saudi.

I fail to see any value in either your Cartoon or your comment.

prospector
2nd Dec 2015, 00:50
Very likely the post was based on figures such as this

[quote]Saudi Arabia is carrying out executions at a rate of one person every two days, according to a new report.
At least 102 people were executed in the first six months of this year compared to 90 in in the whole of 2014, said Amnesty International on Tuesday.
Most executions in Saudi Arabia are carried out by beheading, or in some cases by firing squad. Child offenders and mentally ill prisoners are among those who have been killed.
The group said the death penalty was being disproportionately used against foreign nationals, many of them migrant workers with no ability to understand Arabic – the language in which they are questioned while in detention and in which trial proceedings are carried out.
Under the conservative kingdom's strict Islamic sharia legal code, drug trafficking, rape, murder, armed robbery and apostasy are all punishable by death. Rights groups have long criticised the system for its ambiguous nature and a lack of due process.
The kingdom is among the world’s most prolific executioners, consistently featuring in the top five countries for capital punishment. The country recently advertised for eight new executioners to cope with the upsurge in work.[/quote/)


You will no doubt note that apostasy is punishable by death under sharia law.

lomapaseo
2nd Dec 2015, 01:03
Big difference is the Saudis cut from behind the neck while ISIS cuts from in front of the neck.

What does Sharia law have to say about this?

SASless
2nd Dec 2015, 01:17
Pros dear boy.....merely "being" a Christian in Saudi does not get you the Chop....unlike the way ISIS does it. ISIS will do you if you adhere to the wrong brand of Islam it appears.

If you disagree....how did so many of us survive living and working in Saudi all these many years?

prospector
2nd Dec 2015, 02:04
SAS old chap, merely quoting what Amnesty International has made public.

And one can get topped for believing in a different version of a fairy tale in many parts of the world.

SASless
2nd Dec 2015, 12:47
When we read Statistics and such we have to remember to consider the definitions and standards used in compiling those Data.

Saudi is not the most liberal Nation in the World and they will remove One's Head for many offenses of their Legal System....but merely "being" a Christian is not one of them.

We have far too many videos made by the Killers themselves showing us mass murders of Christians by ISIS Thugs....where it was the sufficient only for the Victims to be Christians to earn them a gruesome death.

The politically correct among us try their best to ignore that simple fact as I assume they do not wish to possibly offend some Muslim by speaking honestly about that sad situation.

We need to say it like it is.....and that is ISIS are a bunch of murdering thugs who are engaged in Ethnic Cleansing and Mass Murder of Christians and any others who do not ascribe to their warped brand of Islam.

Fliegenmong
2nd Dec 2015, 12:53
Well...here is a thought...

Syrian war explainer: Is it all about a gas pipeline? | Gold Coast Bulletin (http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/world/is-the-fight-over-a-gas-pipeline-fuelling-the-worlds-bloodiest-conflict/story-fnj94lfw-1227630623353)


??

Lonewolf_50
2nd Dec 2015, 15:56
Well...here is a thought...

Syrian war explainer: Is it all about a gas pipeline? | Gold Coast Bulletin (http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/world/is-the-fight-over-a-gas-pipeline-fuelling-the-worlds-bloodiest-conflict/story-fnj94lfw-1227630623353) It is rarely ever about just one thing, but I'll offer that the natural gas market and access to European markets figures in to some of why the Russians and Assad remain in a relationship. Interesting to see the Iranian bid include an underwater pipeline section. Won't the Enviro Laws and EIS process get in the way of that?

West Coast
2nd Dec 2015, 19:09
ISIS video claims to show boy killing two Russian spies - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/14/middleeast/isis-video-boy-execution-russian-spies/)

Lonewolf_50
2nd Dec 2015, 19:14
ISIS video claims to show boy killing two Russian spies - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/14/middleeast/isis-video-boy-execution-russian-spies/)
Cue up Crosby Stills Nash and Young:
Teach, your children well ...

Look, more fun ISIS news for the avid news consumer:
This story relates to judges in ISIS held places ordering homosexuals to be thrown off of the roof. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-persecution-gay-men-murder-lgbt-muslim-society/)
Here, we see that ISIS is using females to recruit in the US. (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-has-300-u-s-ambassadors-twitter-report-says-n471671) (At least 300 of them, per the story)

Apparently, that last bit was the one step too far (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/defense-secretary-carter-special-ops-force-iraq-fight-isis-n471996).
Defense Secretary Ash Carter said Tuesday the U.S. military will deploy a specialized expeditionary targeting force to Iraq to launch unilateral raids and "put even more pressure" on ISIS. U.S. special operation forces will conduct operations in Iraq "at the invitation of the Iraqi government" and be in position "to conduct unilateral operations into Syria," Carter said.

"We're at war. We're using the might of the finest fighting force the world has ever known," Carter told the House Armed Services Committee. "Tens of thousands of U.S. personnel are operating in the broader Middle East region, and more are on the way." Just in time to deploy more soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines for the holidays. Very Clintonesque of him. (Bill)

In case anybody thinks they are there for a peace keeping operation (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/military-official-more-u-s-troops-will-be-combat-iraq-n472931)(which would upset an old hawk like Don Rumsfeld ...)
The U.S. special operation forces headed to Iraq won't be sitting on the sidelines in the fight against ISIS — they'll be in combat, a top military official said Wednesday.
"A raid is a combat operation, there's no way around that," said Colonel Steve Warren, the Baghdad-based spokesman for the Combined Joint Task Force-Operation Inherent Resolve. "So yeah, more Americans will be coming here to Iraq and some of them will be conducting raids inside of both Iraq and Syria." We thank Col Warren for his candor.

RatherBeFlying
3rd Dec 2015, 02:02
Dans le jeu des alliances contre l’organisation terroriste Daech, faites-vous davantage confiance à :

Vladimir Poutine
93 %
741 votes
Recep Tayyip Erdogan
7 %
57 votes
Total des votes : 798

In the working of alliances against the terrorist organization Da'esh, who do you trust more :

Lonewolf_50
3rd Dec 2015, 05:13
In the working of alliances against the terrorist organization Da'esh, who do you trust more :
Well, was there an option to vote "neither" in that poll? :E

jolihokistix
3rd Dec 2015, 08:24
Just for the sake of balance, there is not any 100% welcome for extra US boots on the ground, in Iraq, let alone Syria.


According to this article anyway, saying the Iraqi PM is not happy with the US announcement.


http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/12/01/U-S-deploying-specialized-expeditionary-force-to-back-Iraq-Carter.html

Stanwell
3rd Dec 2015, 10:07
Stupid barstewards!
That's just playing right into the hands of ISIS.

If you're going to do that, do it properly.
Clearly defined goals, 7th century ROEs and overwhelming force.
Remove the lands from their control and, presto - no caliphate.

And, of course, to be initiated, prosecuted and concluded by Arabs themselves.

Yes, I know .. :(

Hempy
3rd Dec 2015, 10:32
Stanwell, it's a Sunni vs Shia fight. The are both still intent on destroying Israel and/or Israeli benefactors (i.e the Great Satan) after the've destroyed each other.

You are correct in saying that all this plays into ISIS hands, but the Shi'ites don't care. They'd rather beat the Sunnis by themselves than be seen as holding hands with America. The US is the common enemy.

SASless
3rd Dec 2015, 12:59
Seeing some posts here it would appear there are more than a few who hold pretty much the same view of America and Americans but cannot be motivated beyond sitting behind a keyboard and waging a war of words.

That being the case....recalling a bit of History by those who feel that way should understand destroying America is a much more daunting task than it seems they think.

If they are patient....we shall do ourselves in...and need no outside help in doing that.

The past Eight Years alone should be a pretty good indicator of how bad the situation has gotten....Congress and the President alone are doing a very efficient job of destroying this once great nation.

Stanwell
3rd Dec 2015, 14:50
Yeah!
Get George Dubya and his mates back.
He'll sort those wogs out and restore the country to greatness. :rolleyes:

Lonewolf_50
3rd Dec 2015, 15:51
Stanwell, it's a Sunni vs Shia fight. The are both still intent on destroying Israel and/or Israeli benefactors (i.e the Great Satan) after the've destroyed each other.

You are correct in saying that all this plays into ISIS hands, but the Shi'ites don't care. They'd rather beat the Sunnis by themselves than be seen as holding hands with America. The US is the common enemy. The above partly true, but somehow the Iraqis are currently accepting quite a bit of US aid and assistance, so they aren't beating anyone by themselves.

A few weeks ago, however, the Iraqi PM did allow that he would be as happy to have Russian help as American, and may even prefer it. This recent announcement from Ash Carter looks like another bad case of failing to keep his mouth shut and keeping our more aggressive support on the down low ... so the PM would be embarrassed at how loud and public this announcement is. Not surprised at his public upset at this, given how things work in that part of the world. Our administration appears to be tone deaf, which is a carry over from the previous adminstration's tone deaf approach. I suppose that at least the US leadership has been consistent for fifteen years, in being tone deaf, so maybe they need to get used to it?????

Yeah!
Get George Dubya and his mates back.
He'll sort those wogs out and restore the country to greatness.
Who advocated this? Nobody I see in this thread.

SASless
3rd Dec 2015, 16:42
Stan,

Poor ol' Dubya....gone for almost Eight Years and two Elections and it is still his Fault for the state of the country today.

Even the doubling of the National Debt under Obama and it is Dubya's fault.

Amazing he could have so much power and rarely be seen in the news or even in public.

That must the thing that bedevils Barry Boy....getting no credit for anything.

Algol
4th Dec 2015, 06:16
The US debt was mainly run up by the events of the GFC, including TARP, and the bailing out of huge US banks. The environment that led to the GFC was created under the Bush regime.

He escaped out the back door just as the SHTF.

Are you seriously telling me Bush would've let his buddies, the Elites of American Banking and Industry, go to the wall?
They put him in power!

The debt was not run up by Obama. It was run up the prevailing system of capitalism in the US. He's just a rubber stamper.

Stanwell
4th Dec 2015, 07:37
Lonewolf,
I was responding sarcastically to the previous post from SASless.
He left himself wide open.
You might also have noticed the 'smiley' at the end of it.

I'm not an American, so I generally refrain from comment on your domestic politics.
American FOREIGN policy, where it affects the rest of us - well, that's another matter.

It seems that every time the hawks feel the need for a little military adventuring, we (Oz) are pressured into 'assisting'.
In the late 60s, when I was young, naïve and wearing a uniform, I had the pleasure(?) of giving you a hand to sort Vietnam out.
That worked really well, didn't it?

I've been an interested observer of the causes and effects of such 'adventuring' ever since.


p.s. I must admit, though, that much of my wisdom benefits from hindsight.

SASless
4th Dec 2015, 13:38
Stan,

I too picked up a bit of cynicism after my Senior Trip to Tropical Climes as you did.

We saw our Politicians piss away a bunch of lives and coin and that continues unimpeded by all that have followed from both parties.

I have less aversion to some adventuring than I do to our Lads and Lasses being sent out to do that with both hands tied behind their back.

Some people just need their Asses kicked....properly kicked.

If we did that instead of what we do...we would have far less need to go adventuring.

Stanwell
4th Dec 2015, 15:10
Amen to that, brother. :ok:

bugged on the right
4th Dec 2015, 21:33
SASless, re your post 212, over here the left is still getting mileage out of blaming Margaret Thatcher for the country's ills and that was way before W. They will latch on to blame anybody but themselves.

Stanwell
5th Dec 2015, 01:44
Circulating on the Net at the moment, there's a 'captioned' pic of Attila the Hen proclaiming...
"If I were still in charge, ISIS would be WasWas by now!".

SASless
5th Dec 2015, 01:58
Bugged....if it means anything....My Grandmother blamed Lincoln for the Emancipation Proclamation!:oh: Some Folks have long memories!

jolihokistix
7th Dec 2015, 13:34
ISIS (ISIL) (IS) seems to stand for "Islamish Stake-out of Iraq and Syria". (in the Levant)

Lonewolf_50
7th Dec 2015, 13:51
Circulating on the Net at the moment, there's a 'captioned' pic of Attila the Hen proclaiming...
"If I were still in charge, ISIS would be WasWas by now!". Heh, that's funny. :ok: in 1985, not thirty years ago, someone published the Leadership Secrets of Atilla the Hun. (https://archive.org/stream/LeadershipSecretsOfAttilaTheHunPdfBook/leadership-secrets-of-attila-the-hun-wess-roberts_djvu.txt)

It was a best seller. You can buy it on Amazon, or you can read the .pdf at the link.

"It's a great point of view about another way to show leadership . . . very, very impressive. I will be using many of the author's ideas in my own work." —Pat Riley, coach, Los Angeles Lakers

"Outlines leadership tenets in a compact, whimsical fashion . . . remarkable ... its style makes it light reading and anything but boring." — Military Review

A last endorsement:
"Leadership Secrets of Attila the Hun is packed with insights about successful leadership. It's a marvelously creative presentation of common sense guidelines. It ought to be called How to Get a Tough Job Done by Involving the Folks Who Will Do the Job— but that wouldn't be nearly as interesting a title. I highly recommend it." — R. L. Crandall, chairman and president, American Airlines

Hmm, sorry for potential aviation content here on JB. How's Mr Crandall doing these days, I wonder?

TRAINING
Adequate training of Huns is essential to war and cannot be disregarded by chieftains in more peaceful times. The consequence for not adequately training your Huns is their failure to accomplish that which is expected of them. Aviation industry, take note.
Teachable skills are for developing Huns. Learnable skills are reserved for
chieftains. Puts Pres Obama's "teachable moments" into a different light, I suppose, one of condescension.

Lonewolf_50
11th Dec 2015, 16:15
Standard playbook event in the Fertile Crescent these days, the car bomb/truck bomb. But this one was a hat trick, and apparently coordinated as a strike.

ISIS Truck Bombs Kill at Least 50 in Tel Tamer, Syria - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-truck-bombs-kill-least-50-tel-tamer-syria-n478376)
by Reuters // BEIRUT — A triple truck bomb attack claimed by ISIS killed at least 50 people and wounded 80 others in Syria, a spokesman for the Kurdish militia that controls the area said on Friday. The town in the northeastern province of Hasaka is controlled by the Kurdish YPG militia, which has been battling ISIS with the support of U.S.-led airstrikes.

Kurdish fighters have advanced against the militants in the last few weeks
in Hasaka, notably taking over the town of al Houl. The three blasts,
carried out by at least two suicide bombers, struck outside a hospital,
at a market and in a residential area in the town of Tel Tamer late on Thursday, the YPG's Redur Xelil said via an Internet messaging service.

ISIS later said in an online statement that three of its fighters driving three separate vehicles had detonated the suicide bombs targeting "bases" belonging to Kurdish fighters. There ya go, the Kurds must be basing their fighting in a market, since economic warfare is what's in play. :rolleyes::=

angels
11th Dec 2015, 22:43
Lonewolf_50 - ISIS have used the VBIED to great effect in both defence and attack plans. When they took Mosul there was an advance guard of car bombs followed up by squads who were fewer in number than the defenders -- but far better fighters.

They had infiltrated a fifth column into the city beforehand. The combination of the three just meant 2,500 Iraqis just ran away leaving the 600 million bucks (minimum) in the central bank branch there, tons of ordnance, tanks, and HummVees which are now cropping up everywhere.

Here's an example of how the Russians bomb ISIS. They target them young.
The clip is fairly graphic.

LiveLeak.com - Channel: Syria (http://www.liveleak.com/c/syria#item_page=1)

Lonewolf_50
15th Dec 2015, 20:56
The folks in Saudi are nothing if not droll.

Item first. Saudi Arabia unveils an Islamic military alliance against terrorism (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/saudi-arabia-unveils-islamic-military-alliance-against-terrorism-n480016). I am sure that this will go well. note from the article itself that
Saudi Arabia's regional rival, Shiite Iran, is not part of the coalition. Given where some of the funds that end up in the hands of ISIS originate from, this is most humorous.
Iraq and Syria, whose forces are battling to regain territory taken by ISIS and whose governments are allied with Iran, are not in the coalition. ISIS has pledged to overthrow the monarchies of the Gulf and have mounted a series of attacks on Shiite Muslim mosques and security forces in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
This will be, at the worst, entertaining. Who the 34 nations are remains to be seen, but perhaps Pakistan is in the mix. This would be a nice counterbalance to Iran's looming nuclear capability ..

Our friends in Pakistan have this to offer up. (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pakistan-test-fires-new-shaheen-1a-ballistic-missile-n480161)
Nuclear-armed Pakistan test-fired a ballistic missile Tuesday capable of hitting targets more than 550 miles away, the country's military said. The Shaheen 1A has a "sophisticated and advanced guidance system [that] makes it a highly accurate missile system" and is "capable of delivering different types of warheads," according to a statement from Inter-Service Public Relations, the media wing of the Pakistani military. The missile landed in the Arabian Sea after Tuesday's test, the ISPR statement said. In some places, global warming isn't the biggest threat.

MTOW
15th Dec 2015, 22:38
Hmmmm... a 34 nation coalition of (Sunni) Islamic states to combat ISIS.

Why does the phrase "Giving Dracula the contract to guard the blood bank" come immediately to mind?

waveskimmer
15th Dec 2015, 23:19
https://raymondpronk.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/radical-islam-threat.jpg

MTOW
16th Dec 2015, 06:50
Given the way the USA and its allies have fought wars since 1945, an essay by Australian (then Lt Col, later General Sir) John Monash published in April 1912 is interesting in what Monash states.

*Ill-informed public opinion, Monash implied, was a weakness of democracy. Politicians must not be influenced by it (in say, stopping the funding of a war) or interfere in how commanders conducted war. Monash’s contention was that if ignorant politicians started giving orders in this specialised area, then they could endanger soldiers’ lives and perhaps help lose a war. If weak-kneed politicians stepped in when a commander’s strategy was halfway to completion and looked shaky to the ill-informed observer, then this could be disastrous for the conduct of the war.
People often say that George Orwell was incredibly prescient in what he predicted in his book ‘1984’. I think this shows that John Monash is right up there alongside Orwell.

*Transcribed from ‘Monash, the Outsider Who Won a War’ by Roland Perry. If your wife or children are looking for a Christmas present for you, this is a really good read.

G-CPTN
22nd Dec 2015, 12:52
Will the US use the G-word? - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35075603)

Lonewolf_50
22nd Dec 2015, 15:28
Did you see the definition of that term in the articlecausing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Given what a broad and irresponsible definition is being used for the term as originally coined, which was a direct response to the Third Reich's "Final Solution" policy, I have a hard time accepting anyone's use of it anymore. It's become an emotive flag to raise irrespective of what is at hand. I note that the article's author points on the problem with using that term.

As to the atrocities inflicted upon the Yazidi, we already have a term for that: atrocity. That doesn't make it genocide.

Back to ISIS: it appears that the Taliban and ISIS are at war with each other (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35123748). I wish them well in their gutting one another.



Two groups declared war on one another in January 2015 after IS announced the establishment of its branch in "Khorasan", an old name for Afghanistan and parts of neighbouring Pakistan, Iran and Central Asia. It was the first time that Islamic State, which has its roots in the conflicts in Iraq and Syria, had
officially spread outside the Arab world.

..."Daesh" as it is known by its Arabic acronym, was the first major militant group to directly challenge the authority of the Taliban's founder, Mullah Muhammad Omar, who was regarded by the Taliban as Amir-ul Momineen (Leader of the Faithful) of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

Al-Qaeda's leaders were given shelter by the Taliban leader and they had acknowledged his authority. But IS has been vocally opposed, with statements and propaganda videos questioning the legitimacy of the Taliban and accusing them of promoting the interests of Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency.

West Coast
22nd Dec 2015, 15:58
Honestly it doesn't matter. Europe has tolerated genocide in its back yard in fairly recent history. The US is only marginally better having vassilated over Rwanda. The UN is of little use. Call it what you will, it's not necessarily a call to action.

Lonewolf_50
22nd Dec 2015, 16:07
Honestly it doesn't matter. Europe has tolerated genocide in its back yard in fairly recent history. The US is only marginally better having vassilated over Rwanda. The UN is of little use. Call it what you will, it's not necessarily a call to action. Per some comments from a surviving Yazidl (in the article) he mentions that "the word 'genocide' matters."

As noted in the article, if it is officially called "genocide" then you get to apply for more UN/foreign aid money. Call me cynical if you like, but is this a "follow the money" deal or something else? :confused:

Interestingly, Pope Francis has been lobbying some international organizations about the Christians in Syrian and Iraq being subject to genocide. He's not been able to get many people to bite on that.

West Coast
22nd Dec 2015, 16:52
If it offers some level of compensation and/or status then great. It should come with a big fat disclaimer in the small print that genocide isn't a sure fired way to compel international bodies or individual nations to act.

SASless
22nd Dec 2015, 18:01
Victory Party.....never heard of them!

crewmeal
31st Dec 2015, 08:23
Happy New Year ISIS

watch?v=BAUZnDIWu2I

meadowrun
1st Jan 2016, 23:49
After seeing what US Forces did to Saddam's retreating army(?) from Kuwait, I don't know quite what the coalition is really doing over there. Twiddling their thumbs? I've seen more decisive action in mobile phone games.


Arnie is promoting some new one. Former Govenor of California. Well, got to top up the coffers somehow, can't be President. Roll the dice with the next one.

lomapaseo
2nd Jan 2016, 00:25
After seeing what US Forces did to Saddam's retreating army(?) from Kuwait, I don't know quite what the coalition is really doing over there. Twiddling their thumbs? I've seen more decisive action in mobile phone games.

It would help if ISIS would congregate around buildings and vehicles without intermixing with non-combatants, that would make it easier to use our new fangled weapons rather than hunting individuals down or carpet bombing whole towns.

Maybe if we dropped leaflets with instructions it would get their attention.

meadowrun
2nd Jan 2016, 01:59
Yes they do that. They also have captured tanks and Humvee's etc that have to be parked somewhere, not on top of roofs with civilians underneath. They move along roads and other terrain, they are detectable when they do. Take out their infrastructure for pity's sake. How much oil are they still selling? Pretty big targets are oil facilities! You see a tank in IS territory - it's theirs !!! Can you target a tank and only the tank? At this rate might as well scrap several military satellites.

ExDubai
8th Jan 2016, 21:08
Egypt tourist hotel comes under attack - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35268713)

Terrorist attack in Hurghada...

SASless
8th Jan 2016, 22:14
Philadelphia Police Officer ambushed by ISIS supporter....Officer shot four times and the Radical Islamic Terrorist shot three times by the Officer.

The Perp is alive and talking.

The Beat goes on.

This thread might as well be made a Sticky at the Top of the Forum as this is just going to become a common occurrence.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-police-idUSKBN0UM1L820160108

con-pilot
8th Jan 2016, 22:43
Philadelphia Police Officer ambushed by ISIS supporter....Officer shot four times and the Radical Islamic Terrorist shot three times by the Officer.

The Perp is alive and talking.

The Beat goes on.

This thread might as well be made a Sticky at the Top of the Forum as this is just going to become a common occurrence.

Gunman citing Islamic State ambushes Philadelphia policeman | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-police-idUSKBN0UM1L820160108)

I was watching that on TV.

The cop after being shot got out of his car and shot the suspect.

In the arse.

Sorry, but I can't help but chuckle over that.

"Shot me will you, okay here you go, right in the arse."

Maybe I should seek help. :(

prospector
9th Jan 2016, 00:05
Hopefully, even though the situation is bad enough, the gunman is not black and the policeman is not white.

meadowrun
9th Jan 2016, 00:17
Just the facts...


The perp got off 11 shots from a gun stolen from a cop two years ago.
And given the long flowing white robe, without a pointy hat, he was wearing in downtown Phili - it wasn't Billy-Joe Bob Sue Bubba from Lonesome Crik, Alabama.

con-pilot
9th Jan 2016, 00:36
Hopefully, even though the situation is bad enough, the gunman is not black and the policeman is not white.

The police officer is white and the shooter is black.

prospector
9th Jan 2016, 01:08
Oh dear, can we now expect more rioting, looting and general mayhem because of police brutality? hopefully it might be a bit difficult to get the rent a riot squad out with the facts all captured on tape.

SASless
9th Jan 2016, 03:38
I admire the Police Officer...despite a surprise deadly attack during which he got shot at very close range....he continued to fight and apprehended the Perp who shot him.

I don't give a damn where, how, or how many times he shot the Perp.

Job well done Officer!

porch monkey
9th Jan 2016, 08:03
It's just unfortunate that the [email protected] is still alive. That simply ensures he'll be around to lie at his trial.....

Lonewolf_50
10th Jan 2016, 01:49
It's just unfortunate that the [email protected] is still alive. That simply ensures he'll be around to lie at his trial.....It is a testament to that officer's professionalism that the gent who shot him is still alive. He done good.

SASless
10th Jan 2016, 02:39
Actually, I think the loss of Blood from his wounds prevented him from catching up with the Perp and being able to finish what he started explains why the Perp is still alive.

What his being alive points out is the professionalism of the other Officers that made the arrest.

We were not as professional in my days as a Cop.:oh:

porch monkey
10th Jan 2016, 03:04
Perhaps my sarcasm was a little too obscure. I take absolutely nothing away from the officer involved or the other LE officers involved. I'm just sad for them because of the circus that will now ensue.

SASless
10th Jan 2016, 03:57
I understood what you were saying.....

ArthurR
12th Jan 2016, 12:07
Basil, lets hope the town now becomes a target.

SASless
12th Jan 2016, 12:09
Seems the Fighters learned something in the UK if they are the most brutal.:(

ArthurR
15th Jan 2016, 09:18
Its being reported that ISIS was behind yesterday's attack in Jakarta, not unexpected, but it was nice to hear the Imam of Indonesia's largest Mosque has decried the attacks calling ISIS none Muslim's, and terrorism a crime against humanity. Pity we don't hear the same in UK or Europe.

ehwatezedoing
20th Jan 2016, 07:35
I woke up with some great news this morning.

The Islamic State group's propaganda magazine has confirmed the British militant known as Jihadi John died in a drone strike in November. (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35358101)

Keep the drones airborne :ok:

Wingswinger
20th Jan 2016, 08:48
Yes indeed. We've got this scumbag to vaporise now.

Video: New Jihadi John suspect declares support for Isil on BBC in 2014 - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12081824/New-Jihadi-John-suspect-declares-support-for-Isil-on-BBC-in-2014.html)

Lonewolf_50
19th Jul 2016, 23:16
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/most-wanted-is-terrorist-killed-in-gun-battle/ar-BBuuKni?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp


It appears that the folks in Indonesia have bagged one.

Lonewolf_50
17th Nov 2016, 21:38
ISIS destroy Assyrian cultural relics 3000 years old (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/iraqi-forces-attack-east-mosul-neighborhood-43569093). As the fight around Mosul gets grittier, the ISIS nihilism comes out.


Being in Mosul and trying to survive is a bit of a trick these days. Some interesting voices heard on an Iraqi local talk radio (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/a-talk-radio-station-broadcasts-emotional-calls-from-iraqis-trapped-in-mosul/2016/11/17/c772c492-a522-11e6-ba46-53db57f0e351_story.html) station from people in a hard situation.
Another caller complained that “Daesh launches one or two rockets, but the Iraqi army bombing is very intense, the area is full of civilian families and they get hurt, so through your station I would like to ask them to decrease the bombings and to be more accurate.”

meadowrun
18th Nov 2016, 04:51
War is cruel and not very accurate. You just have to get it over with as quickly as possible.