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Super VC-10
2nd Feb 2015, 22:13
The father of an Iraqi police officer murdered by the ISIS scum managed to take out seven of the shits before he was killed. At least he died on his feet and fighting.

Iraqi father shoots dead seven ISIS militants in revenge for son | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2936629/Father-shoots-dead-seven-ISIS-militants-revenge-son-executed-spying-Iraqi-government.html?ito=social-facebook)

West Coast
2nd Feb 2015, 22:52
It's a start. Pushback from those actually being terrorized should be the main source of manpower for this battle.

Super VC-10
2nd Feb 2015, 22:57
Cameron and Obama should declare open war on ISIS, with the express instruction that the Geneva Convention will not apply to any of the scum they capture alive. :ok:

West Coast
2nd Feb 2015, 23:06
No argument from me, but surely someone will be along shortly to tell us otherwise.

pr00ne
2nd Feb 2015, 23:14
Wonderful! Let's reduce ourselves to their level eh? Brilliant tactic that, really helps...

superq7
2nd Feb 2015, 23:20
West Coast you were right, didn't take long.

Pinky the pilot
2nd Feb 2015, 23:41
As I understand it, any adherence to the Geneva convention by 'our side' is seen as a weakness by the daesh scum.:hmm:

West Coast
2nd Feb 2015, 23:53
Super7

Yah, only 8 minutes give or take. Faster than I figured. I guess the on duty liberal alert system works pretty good.

Tarq57
2nd Feb 2015, 23:59
Super7

Yah, only 8 minutes give or take. Faster than I figured. I guess the on duty liberal alert system works pretty good.
It might not be the liberal alert system. I don't know; I haven't followed the posts of pr00ne.

But it might be more to do with the cognizance of the risks involved should we (civilization) decide to behave in the same manner as the terrorists.

Don't get me wrong; I'm quite 'pro' giving them a bullet, I just don't think we should abandon all of our values in the process.

superq7
2nd Feb 2015, 23:59
West Coast if the thread continues they'll be more, mark my words buddy.

Sop_Monkey
3rd Feb 2015, 00:31
This scum have declared war on us. If they want a war let's give them a war. We fight a war to win, do we not? We can rest assured, that lot wont abide by any rules. They aren't wearing uniforms when they're murdering innocents in our respective countries, so they should be dealt with swiftly and appropriately. Or should we just roll over and consider their human rights? They aren't even human FFS!!

obgraham
3rd Feb 2015, 02:44
So you all think that our current commander-in-chief (all small letters on purpose) will actually engage these guys that way? No, first he'll want to build a cushy residence, maybe in downtown Manhattan, where captured ISIS gentlemen can enjoy all the benefits of American hospitality, religious freedom, and jurisprudence while awaiting trial. Sort of an Anti-Graib.

Exascot
3rd Feb 2015, 05:13
Lay off them folks we should be encouraging them to participate is some sort of sporting activity to take their minds away from their current activities. I would suggest snowboarding but after the snow has melted :E

Super VC-10
3rd Feb 2015, 07:36
Trial? who said anything about a trial? I object to my taxes being used to house and feed scum like Adebolajo and Adebowale.

Capetonian
3rd Feb 2015, 07:46
The Geneva convention was intended for use when wars were fought with decency, if that makes sense.
Treating scum like Isis, the Adebo animals, and similar filth with kid gloves makes no sense.

mikedreamer787
3rd Feb 2015, 08:00
This scum have declared war on us.AFAIK the Daesh are lower than that.

I read in a paper today what a 25yo Kurdish marksman said about Daesh tactics and to me they appear very similar to the Jap tactics of 74 years ago - beheadings, indiscriminate murder of civilians using fear as a method of control and brutual torture...all on a regular basis.

The only difference is the Japs were in military uniform. These bunch of thugs are only after undeserved personal power and wealth they cannot acquire through normal peaceful means.

From what I understand the only way to defeat this disease is to eradicate every Daesh vermin without any mercy whatsoever. Like the Japs the prime motivation is to kill the enemy and will commit suicide trying to take them out whether captured or not. Therefore mercy must not be shown whatsoever to this filth even in the unlikely event any of them surrender. Either flamethrow and/or blow away the scum wherever ther are found.

I've no doubt I'll be banned from this thread because I usually speak plainly without using any idiotic PC rubbish, but I'll finish with his quote from the same paper -

"It was not a normal war.
In war, there are ethics,
a culture, even rules. But
Daesh respects no rules,
and all they had in mind
was the idea of dying as
martyrs and going to
Paradise."

Musa
A 25yo Kurdish marksman
who fought the Battle of
Kobane.

Fliegenmong
3rd Feb 2015, 08:59
"and all they had in mind
was the idea of dying as
martyrs"

All they had in what used to be their minds was a piece of western lead, smeared in pig fat for good measure!

fixed it :ok:

funfly
3rd Feb 2015, 11:06
The answer to all the worlds problems - shoot 'em, kill 'em.

The John Wayne brigade, meet them here on pPrune. :ugh:

The problem is that although they might deserve to be killed this sort of 'bull at a gate' attitude tends to lead to what is politely called "collateral damage" and thousands get killed in the cross fire.

Someone has got to apply some brains to this problem and, although we question their human rights record, it looks as if Saudi Arabia is coming up with some very constructive ideas.

Capetonian
3rd Feb 2015, 11:11
The answer to all the worlds problems - shoot 'em, kill 'em.Do you have a better answer?
I won't make any suggestion, sarcastic or otherwise, would just like to see your answer.

funfly
3rd Feb 2015, 11:21
Cape,

No I don't unfortunately.

I agree with you (possibly for the first time!) that this group are nothing but murderous thugs, possible, as Boris has said, sex starved w*nkers, and I would have no compunction to see them all killed.

Problem is that we have no way of doing this. The US attitude (the John Wayne technique) is to go in guns blazing but history has told us that this doesn't work.

The more of them you kill the more of the murderous bastards you catalyse.

I do not have an answer and I cannot see anyone else who has an answer to this problem where disillusioned sex starved adolescent young men can find a blanket that can allow them to act out and finance their murderous fantasies in the company of others with the same motivation.

FF

Pinky the pilot
3rd Feb 2015, 11:27
More knowledgeable ppruners will be able to correct me if I am wrong but I was of the view that the Geneva Convention applied only to members of a recognised arm of a countries military forces.

IMHO Daesh/ISIS or whatever you wish to call them do not fit into this category. They could more likely be referred to as 'irregular' forces and it is my understanding that the Geneva Convention specifically does not include such forces and therefore upon capture they may be liable, and quite legally, to be subject to being placed against the nearest wall and summarily executed!:eek:

My understanding of the situation anyway. And FWIW, it's one way of ridding the Earth of murdering scum.:*

The more of them you kill the more of the murderous bastards you catalyse.


Oh I dunno, funfly; Eventually you'd wind up getting rid of most if not all of 'em. It would just take persistence.

yotty
3rd Feb 2015, 11:44
I fear an escalation in the conflict is what the "nutters" want. If direct action was taken in the Levant by the west then (as they see it) more moderate Muslims would join their cause and spread the conflict into a larger theatre. Just my 2p worth. :cool:

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 12:11
I think we should embrace our enemies no matter where they are. Embrace them, get a campfire going and a good hearty round of Kumbaya. (All touchy feely kind of stuff.)

It's the only humane way.

ORAC
3rd Feb 2015, 12:25
Asymmetric warfare and challenges for international humanitarian law (http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:575506/FULLTEXT01.pdf)

Asymmetry between parties to armed conflicts is as old as warfare itself. However, what have come to change in recent years are the means and methods used by weaker non-state actors to such conflicts. The world has witnessed how civilians become increasingly involved in hostilities, both as participants and as innocent by-standers. The question is therefore how states should respond to hostile acts carried out by more or less organized civilians in a way that does not jeopardize the protection of those that take no direct part in hostilities, or have ceased to do so........

Who is considered to be directly participating in hostilities is a main question in this thesis, and the discussion is based on ICRC’s Guidance on Direct Participation in Hostilities. One important question in the Guidance is how to determine the temporal and material scope of participation, and how to avoid the “revolving door”-effect of civilian participation in hostilities. The answer to this question is important since great military powers such as the U.S. and Israel seek to fight terrorism by the targeting and detaining of individuals that are deemed to pose a security risk. These policies requires due assessment of whether the person in question has lost immunity under IHL.

As a fundamental rule, civilians cannot be targeted unless and for such time as they participate in hostilities. Combatants can be targeted at all times, but in several contemporary armed conflicts, which are neither entirely international nor entirely internal, there lies a great difficulty in assigning the status of “combatant” to irregular fighters and terrorists. This means that there is a need for examining the legal situation and to come up with solutions for how these problems should be addressed. ICRC has through its Guidance and other documents presented its view on when a person is directly participating in hostilities and thereby loses immunity under IHL.

The Guidance suggests that members of organized armed groups that are carrying out a continuous combat function should be liable to attack at all times; in purely practical terms being seen as combatants belonging to a non-state actor’s armed force without having any combatant rights as do members of a state’s armed forces.

Although criticized in parts, this is a well-reasoned and compromised solution, but does not remedy the problem of establishing when someone is liable to attack; instead it suggests another type of assessment........

Sop_Monkey
3rd Feb 2015, 12:37
We have remember that each and everyone of them is a potential jihadi. When, not if things get really ugly they will turn on us. If this offends too bad. Who's funding these cowards? It has to be an Islamic state of course. "Cut off the head the rest will die ". The longer we dither in sorting this vermin and the money trail the worse it will be. I'm ready to start now. Who's wiv me then? Forward ho!!!

West Coast
3rd Feb 2015, 12:50
Sharpening my pitchfork! Let's wait till after dinner though.

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 12:51
WC:

Is that what Marines, or former Marines, use, pitchforks? Damn!

mikedreamer787
3rd Feb 2015, 12:54
I think we should embrace our enemies no matter where they are.

Now RGB how are all those American politicians (esp Democrunts), human rights lawyers, civil libertarians, greenies, pro-islamist sympathisers, illegal muslim immigrants, socialists, welfare parasites and next door's dog all gonna sleep soundly at night thinking the USA's best is keeping eternal guard but that now you've gone all huggy fluff?

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 12:57
mike:

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya.....

To everything turn, turn, turn... there is a season turn, turn, turn.

(Hint: it is currently -23C. My brain is frozen. So are my balls but that's a different story. My brain synapses are mis-firing. I'll be okay eventually. In the Spring.)

mikedreamer787
3rd Feb 2015, 13:10
Oh well, until then I guess there's always Chuck.

http://www.armoryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/chucknorris-m60.jpg

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 13:24
Chuck is a schmuck, mike. You know that! There's only one way in dealing with these scum:

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/168/7/8/u_s_army_rangers_by_reconwarrior21-d3j5aln.jpg

funfly
3rd Feb 2015, 13:58
I tend to feel that the long term answer lies in changing the views that the youths have of themselves - their views on how we see them so that they feel an embarrassment about their gullibility rather than a pride or a macho thing.

I wouldn't want to belong to a group if membership indicated that I was a bit of a looser, a wally.

So should we patronise them?

Explain that those who turn to extremist views are often youths who are having difficulties coping with adolescence - who are too immature to deal with relationships.

Young men who, perhaps, have difficulties finding girlfriends, may even have never had a girlfriend.

Young men who may spend quite a bit of time looking at pornography.

Young men who are not mature enough to see their own place in society.

Young people who have not been able to accept education perhaps because education was not available to them but more likely that their IQ is below average.

Etc.

FF

Sop_Monkey
3rd Feb 2015, 16:23
These animals have burnt that poor Jordanian prisoner alive. Stone age retards if ever there were.

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 16:32
Sop Monkey,

Although I understand where you're coming from by liking these scum to animals, they really are less than that as animals wouldn't even do something like that.

Cancer --> Eradication

Sop_Monkey
3rd Feb 2015, 16:44
Yeap you're right words fail me actually.

vulcanised
3rd Feb 2015, 16:48
Time for a Napalm comeback.

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 16:48
When I see, hear or read something like this it makes me wonder just how "evolved" we humans are. Something not quite right here.

vulcanised: YES! I love the smell of napalm in the mornin'. (Not really. But as a former artilleryman I did love the smell of wolf pussy in the morning.)

victor tango
3rd Feb 2015, 17:19
It's good to vent feelings on this abhorrent act of barbarism.

I'm a bit fed up with all the remedies tendered when the answer is here right in front of you !!!


Make me Prime Minister and Chief of Armed Forces NOW.

Then stand back and just watch !!!!!!!!!

GrumpyOldFart
3rd Feb 2015, 17:24
So should we patronise them?


Yeah, funfly - that should work.


<snigger>

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 17:26
victor tango:

Can I be your Chief of Staff of the armed forces? Please? :}:E

Sop_Monkey
3rd Feb 2015, 17:29
I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Gimme a Churchill and a couple of General Pattons'. Then there will be some ass kicked, take that to the bank.

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 17:32
Sop Monkey,

I'll be in charge of the lobbing of a few batteries of cruise missiles.

Fire for effect, out.

Sop_Monkey
3rd Feb 2015, 17:33
You're on! Next!

Super VC-10
3rd Feb 2015, 17:41
Apparently His Majesty King Abdullah II of Jordan has a pair of balls. Jordan has announced that all jihadist prisoners are to be executed following the murder of their pilot by the jihadist scum. :ok:

Sop_Monkey
3rd Feb 2015, 17:45
Good on him!! Have a good clean out, that the spirit and hope other countrie's follow suite!!

Capetonian
3rd Feb 2015, 17:53
Apparently His Majesty King Abdullah II of Jordan has a pair of balls. Jordan has announced that all jihadist prisoners are to be executed following the murder of their pilot by the jihadist scumIf he does it, he should be made President of the USA to replace the current useless incumbent (has anyone noticed what that word spells if you knock out a few letters, in fact there are quite a few things one can make of that!)

Maybe Abdullah can show himself to be as much of a statesman as his late father.

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 18:01
incumbent (has anyone noticed what that word spells if you knock out a few letters, in fact there are quite a few things one can make of that!)

The letter ten? :}:E

RatherBeFlying
3rd Feb 2015, 18:01
Afghanistan and the North West Frontier of the Raj was generally not a problem to the rest of the world. Unemployed young men of the Pathan tribes commonly signed up with the Brits to man forts protecting governed areas from the depredations of different tribes. Poachers turned gatekeepers and all that ;)

As long as there were no external invaders, the tribes reverted to the National Sport: Feuding with other tribes.

The same state of affairs prevailed in the Nejd adjacent to the Ottoman Empire. In the late 18th century, that applecart was briefly overturned climaxing in the Wahhabi Egyptian War. The Wahhabis in the Nejd were firmly put down by the Ottomans.

Abdul Azziz al Saud took back his kingdom from the Rashidi beginning in the early 20th century. He made common cause with the Wahhabi Ulema, but once he had consolidated his kingdom, he had a problem with the Ikhwan (brotherhood) who knew nothing beyond fanatical warrioring.

Part of the program was turning camel raiders into farmers. There was also some firm military suppression - basically a big stick and lots of carrots.

It's little known that Guantanamo returnees to Saudi were put into a rehabilitation program with jobs, wives, housing and religious counseling.

Most unfortunately, JINSA took over US foreign policy in 2001 culminating in Saddam's overthrow, cashiering the Iraqi officer corps, putting the Shi'a in charge over the Sunni population who had been lording over the Shi'a for centuries.

Daesh (Ikhwan's new moniker) has stepped into the power vacuum created by Saddam's overthrow and Arab Spring, helped immensely by all the nice military toys provided by the US taxpayer to the Iraq "army".

Air strikes has reduced those assets.

The Kurds have stepped admirably into the breach, but they are the country that dare not speak its name. It's not much mentioned that there's a substantial segment of Turkish public opinion that sees Daesh as a convenient means to keep the Kurds in their place:mad:

The Sikes Picot lines will be getting some serious redrawing. I expect an eventual Sunni state with major chunks taken from Syria and Iraq.

As for atrocities, Daesh seems every bit as nasty as some Christians in Lebanon and former Yugoslavia who massacred civilians.

While I'm no fan of Israeli bombing of Gaza, I have to say that compared to Assad, they don't look quite as bad.

Bottom line: If the West decides the ME should be freed of firm dictators, autocrats etc who do keep a firm lid on things, then we will see an agglomeration of tribes a la Afghanistan.

In that case, it's best to keep heavy weaponry and air power out of the picture so that each tribe can defend itself without being rolled over as the Taliban did when it took over Afghanistan with tanks.

Now if the Israelis are entitled to defend themselves, why can't the Palestinians:E

They should at least have equivalent armaments. MAD and all that ;)

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 18:08
In that case, it's best to keep heavy weaponry and air power out of the picture so that each tribe can defend itself without being rolled over as the Taliban did when it took over Afghanistan with tanks.

Said Taliban being tossed out of Afghanistan, with their tanks and heavy weaponry and all, by a band of Northern Alliance, US and British Special Forces operators..... on horseback. :ok:

rgbrock1
3rd Feb 2015, 18:14
Jordan moved swiftly following the video's surfacing, transferring imprisoned jihadists, including al-Rishawi and Ziad Al-Karbuli, a former aide to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian Al Qaeda operative who was killed in 2006, in preparation for execution, perhaps within hours.

:ok::ok::ok:

RatherBeFlying
3rd Feb 2015, 19:47
Said Taliban being tossed out of Afghanistan, with their tanks and heavy weaponry and all, by a band of Northern Alliance, US and British Special Forces operators..... on horseback.

The SF operators used laser designators with salutary effect against said tanks and heavy weaponry, but let's not omit the pilots who dropped the ordinance on the designated targets.

Daesh is muttering "Out, Out Damned Spot!" as we speak :E

Lantern10
3rd Feb 2015, 20:09
I salute the father mentioned in the op.

Checkboard
3rd Feb 2015, 20:12
Cameron and Obama should declare open war on ISIS, with the express instruction that the Geneva Convention will not apply to any of the scum they capture alive. :ok:

Super VC-10 - I'm curious. What exactly is it about ISIS that makes them "scum" in your view?

Is it, perhaps, the way they treat those that they capture alive?

Super VC-10
3rd Feb 2015, 20:26
"Scum" is a euphemism for what I'd really like to put ( :mad:), but I don't want to be banned from Pprune.

The way they treat those who they capture is part of it, as is the way they treat the female of the species. If you ask me, ISIS are like smallpox and should be given the same treatment. They need eradicating by fair means or foul. :*

I don't have a problem with most of those who are of the Muslim faith. The majority of them are peaceable folks, as is the same for the followers of most religions, and of those who don't subscribe to the God Industry. Unfortunately, it only needs the good to stay silent for evil to flourish (q.v. Herr Hitler). :=

Checkboard
3rd Feb 2015, 20:45
I think you missed my point.

I think they are scum for what they do to captured people (and women).

I do not want to also be scum.

That is why I am against posts that state that those who fight in my name should have "express instruction that the Geneva Convention will not apply to any of the scum they capture alive."

I'm fine with not capturing them alive.

Super VC-10
3rd Feb 2015, 20:55
As has been pointed out, ISIS are not signatories to the Geneva Convention. Why should those fighting them tie a hand behind their backs and adhere to it? Should there be no prisoners taken, that's fine by me too. :ok:

Checkboard
3rd Feb 2015, 21:56
Why should those fighting them tie a hand behind their backs and adhere to it?

Because you define the "good" and the "bad" in this world by their actions.

If you torture and murder defenceless prisoners, you are "bad". At the moment that is ISIS. Why do you want to join them?

Toadstool
3rd Feb 2015, 22:14
Why should those fighting them tie a hand behind their backs and adhere to it?

VC-10

not sure if you are involved in this war, or have been involved in the previous ones. There are reasons behind ROE which may be too complex for you to understand.

I am not sure that I am happy doing my fighting for you under the circumstances which you would like.

As for fighting with one hand behind our backs, I can assure you that I am more than happy with the weaponry that we have as opposed with the weaponry that they have.

If anything, they are fighting with weapons vastly inferior to ours. I am happy with this. Then again, we fought the Taliban who had even less and they proved harder than we imagined.

When are you joining up or getting involved?

G-CPTN
3rd Feb 2015, 22:32
If you torture and murder defenceless prisoners, you are "bad". At the moment that is ISIS. Why do you want to join them?

I share Checker's view.
The fury should be aimed at the evil-doers, not at the prisoners - though maybe those in captivity in Jordan are/were 'bad people'?

Just hearing that the Jordanian pilot was from a 'powerful' family,
members of the fighter pilot's powerful tribe
and there was always the possibility of reprisal using the pilot as a pawn to get at the leaders of Jordan.

The failed female suicide bomber has already been sentenced to death.
It seems that executing her will not raise the game - she was destined to have died in her suicide bomb anyway.

Whether she can be quantified as one of the bad people or an unwitting victim seems questionable.

RatherBeFlying
3rd Feb 2015, 22:52
If you torture and murder defenceless prisoners, you are "bad". At the moment that is ISIS. Why do you want to join them?The CIA has been up to that since 9/11:mad: The al Baghdadi fellow purported to be their leader is an alumnus of abu Ghraib post Saddam. We know well where and from whom he got his lessons in how prisoners should be treated:sad:

Guantanamo Diary is not a pretty read.

Lesson of the day: Enhanced interrogation by our side is a war crime when the other side does it.

Don_Apron
3rd Feb 2015, 23:04
Toad

I'm happy to get involved. Where do I sign? I might be Dads Army material but prepared to do my bit to help get rid of this vermin.

No guarantee I will abide by the ROE.

funfly
4th Feb 2015, 11:01
Don,

With the best will in the world, killing them might get rid of the active perpetrators and we might agree that it is what they deserve, however killing them will only act as a catalyst to swell their ranks and we should think a bit less 'knee jerk' and a bit more longer term.

Many of the recruits using the excuse of Islam in order to act murderously are from the West and Pakistan. These are generally youths who have been persuaded to join for whatever reasons and this is the supply chain that we have to break.

It is my humble submission that one way to do this is to make these young men realise that by joining a cult such as this they are demonstrating to their peers their immaturity and their lack of self confidence and success, particularly with the opposite sex.

So kill the murderous bastards by all means but understand your motives for doing this and realise that this will not make the problem go away, just exacerbate it.

rgbrock1
4th Feb 2015, 12:38
funfly wrote:

With the best will in the world, killing them might get rid of the active perpetrators and we might agree that it is what they deserve, however killing them will only act as a catalyst to swell their ranks

Well then, kill them too. As the ranks swell we keep at them. Again and again and again. Until there are no more "ranks." :ok:

Wingswinger
4th Feb 2015, 12:45
It's going to be a long war. You know all those swords beaten into ploughshares over the last 20 years or so? They're needed again.

Si Pacem Petere, Bellum Parare.

Don_Apron
4th Feb 2015, 12:50
Long war is right. See me out, more ways than one.

Algol
5th Feb 2015, 02:10
I have a problem with all this talk of sex starved young MEN being the reason.
What about the women?
Women are capable of the same atrocities, as we saw with that bitch in Kenya. And many of her sisters willing to travel to give support to the ISIS scum.
The issue is a satanic ideology. Nothing less.

david1300
5th Feb 2015, 04:13
Lt. Col. Ralph Peters joined Lt. Col. Allen West on Fox News’ Hannity to discuss how ISIS – also known as Daesh – is not desperate after the burning of the Jordanian pilot, as the Defense Department claims, but instead loves to torture and is empowered by it.

“They’re having the time of their lives. This kind of violence is captivating, exhilarating and thrilling to these guys. It’s never going to get better for them than this,” Peters said. “They have power now. They can exert their will over others.”

Then he said this: This was better than the best sex they’ve ever had, and it’s easier on the goats!

Peters added that if America won’t lead the Jordanians in this incursion, they can’t fight the war alone.

He concluded by calling out Obama on his polar extreme war choices of either “airpower alone” or “hundreds of thousands of soldiers on the ground” as “absolute bull” because there is likely a middle ground where there’s a “limited amount of boots on the ground for a limited time.”

Read more at You Will Never Hear A Better Comment About ISIS After What Lt. Col. Ralph Peters Just Said (http://www.westernjournalism.com/will-never-hear-better-comment-isis-lt-col-ralph-peters-just-said/#PcATOOHA31BUR8vY.99)

Lonewolf_50
5th Feb 2015, 14:48
Ralph Peters has made a good living as a commentator. This latest turn of phrase is one of his better TV moments.
A bit over 20 years ago, he wrote a good piece about the New Warrior Class (http://strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/parameters/Articles/1994/peters.htm)(all over the world) that was a nice complement to Robert Kaplan's "The Coming Anarchy" in terms of explaining the rise of armed non professionals all over the world, and what they were doing to and for peace and stability.
A note for those who make such a big deal about the "moderate" and "non violent" muslims all over the world.
Given that most civil wars begin with the actions of a small fraction of the population (as little as one percent might actively participate in or support the initial violence),[5] any rabid assembly of militants with cash will be able to recruit mercenary forces with ease and spark "tribal" strife that will make the brutality of Africa in the 1960s seem like some sort of Quaker peaceable kingdom. ISIS has people backing them. With cash. Still.

Wingswinger
6th Feb 2015, 06:42
Saudis, Kuwaitis, Qataris? We need to go for them. They have lots of investments in the West. How about an asset-stripping, seizing or freezing?

John Hill
6th Feb 2015, 07:14
Saudis, Kuwaitis, Qataris? We need to go for them. They have lots of investments in the West. How about an asset-stripping, seizing or freezing?

Hmmmm, you really think that is such a good idea? They might get really miffed if something like that was to happen and people who are not really your friends might go and comfort them. Then you end up facing hostile alliances which are stronger for their mutual support.:hmm:

Piltdown Man
6th Feb 2015, 08:01
There is no political will to do anything. Our "leaders" are merely followers of public opinion and that is controlled by pathetic, liberal, limp-wristed journalists. Their censorship means the true horrors are shielded from the public. This creates the general feeling that "things are not so bad", preventing them for demanding action. Just so long as our politicians don't have to make any decisions they are happy.

An example of this is our sh!tty justice system. Where I live, 20 people were charged yesterday with serious crimes of a sexual nature against vulnerable children. The next step happens in two bloody weeks. What is is this? A work creation scheme? It should be Charge - court - verdict - sentence/release. One or two days tops. No, this will take months working 10 till 3, an hour for lunch etc. Even when found guilty we'll wait for a report from social workers etc... Or there again we have the Chilcot enquiry, or maybe we don't. That liar Blair will no doubt enforcing up being sainted (now that he's a Catholic). And the scum who run these shambles turn to politics.

But there again I care. And maybe that's my problem. I want the facts, I want analysis, a decision and then I want action. I don't want "Human Rights" getting in the way if my human rights, the most precious of which is to be able to live in peace closely followed by living freely.

PM

N707ZS
6th Feb 2015, 15:07
Piltdown Man, why didn't they name the 20?

G-CPTN
6th Feb 2015, 15:21
why didn't they name the 20?
They did:-
Those charged:-
- Eisa Mousavi, 39, of Todds Nook, Newcastle has been charged with sexual assault by touching on a female 13 or over; intimidating a witness/juror/person assisting the investigation; rape of a female aged 16 or over; supplying or offering to supply a class B controlled drug; causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Monjur Choudhury, 30, of Philip Place, Newcastle has been charged with permit use of premises for supply of drugs; supply or offer to supply class B controlled drugs; causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Redwan Siddquee, 30, of West Road, Newcastle has been charged with causing or inciting prostitution for gain; supply or offering to supply a class B controlled drug.
- Mohammed Hassan Ali, 32, of Bentinck Street, Newcastle has been charged with a sexual act on a female and possession of mephadrone with intent to supply.
- Abdulhamid Minoyee, 31, of Gainsbrough Grove, Newcastle has been charged with rape of a female aged 16 or over; supply or offer to supply cannabis; sexual assault by touching a female 13 or over.
- Ebrahim Ali, 38, of Wetherby Grove, Gateshead has been charged with supply or offer to supply a class B controlled drug; supply or offer to supply a class A controlled drug; trafficking within the UK for sexual exploitation; arrange child prostitution; rape of a female aged 16 or over.
- Habibur Rahim, 32, of Kenilworth Road, Newcastle has been charged with sexual assault by touching a female 13 or over; administering a substance with intent; sexual assault by touching a female 13 or over; supply or offering to supply a class B controlled drug; supply or offer to supply cannabis; trafficking within the UK for sexual exploitation; causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Ibrahim Rousel, 34, of Manor Gardens, Wardley has been charged with rape of a female aged 16 or over and administering a substance with intent.
- Mohammed Khalique, 22, of Beaconsfield Street, Newcastle has been charged with rape of a female aged 16 or over; supply or offer to supply a class B controlled drug.
- Mohammed Azram, 33, of Croydon Road, Newcastle has been charged with rape of a female aged 16 or over; supply of mephadrone; supply or offer to supply a class B controlled drug; sexual assault by touching a female aged 13 or over; trafficking within the UK for sexual exploitation; causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Nadeem Aslam, 41, of Belle Grove West, Newcastle has been charged with possession of cannabis; possession of mephadrone; supply of mephadrone; permit the use of premises for supply of drugs; causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Prabhat Nelli, 31, Corporation Road, Newcastle has been charged with supply or offer to supply a class B drug and causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Taherul Alam, 29, of Normanton Terrace, Newcastle has been charged with supply or offer to supply a class B controlled drug; permit the use of premises to supply drugs; sexual assault by touching on a female 13 or over; causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Yassar Hussain, 25, of Canning Street, Newcastle has been charged with rape of a female aged 16 or over; permit the use of premises to supply drugs; assault occasioning actual bodily harm; possession of mephadrone; possession of amphetamine; causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Jahangir Zaman, 41, of Hadrian Road, Newcastle has been charged with supply or offer to supply a class B controlled drug and causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Badrul Hussain, 34, of Drybeck Court, has been charged with rape of a female aged under 16; supply of mephadrone; permit the use of a premises to supply drugs and causing or inciting prostitution for gain.
- Abdul Sabe, 37, of Dean House, Newcastle has been charged with possession of cannabis; trafficking within the UK for sexual exploitation; non-penatrative sexual activity with a girl 13 to 15; supply or offer to supply cannabis; sexual assault by touching a female 13 or over and administering a substance with intent.
- Karzan Mohammed, 23, of Graingerville South, Newcastle has been charged with rape of a female under 16; falsely imprison/detain another; supply or offer to supply cannabis; assault occasioning actual bodily harm; administering a substance with intent; rape of a female aged 16 or over and trafficking within the UK for sexual exploitation.
- Saiful Islam, 32, of Strathmore Crescent, Newcastle has been charged with rape of a female aged under 16 and supply or offer to supply cannabis.
- Nashir Uddin, 33, of Joan Street, Newcastle has been charged with supply or offer to supply a class A controlled drug; supply of mephadrone; permit the use of premises for supply of drugs; rape of a female under 16; causing or inciting prostitution for gain; failing to surrender to custody/respond to bail.
- A 34-year-old man, from Newcastle, has received a summons in relation to a sexual assault and administering a substance with intent.
From:- Northumbria Police have charged 20 people with sexual offences as part of Operation Sanctuary - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/northumbria-police-charged-20-people-8587632)

RatherBeFlying
6th Feb 2015, 17:15
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/04/burning-victims-death-still-common-practice/

Hellfires contain an aluminum powder that incinerates whatever it contacts. Wedding parties have ended up as several small pieces, none of which are identifiable.

Hellfires have not been winning hearts and minds.

Lonewolf_50
6th Feb 2015, 17:27
Hellfire is a comparatively small munition.
You ought to see what a 500-lb bomb does to a gathering of folks ... it ain't pretty.

Hellfires contain an aluminum powder that incinerates whatever it contacts.
Run that by again?
The choices of warhead on a Hellfire:
High Explosive Anti-Tank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_explosive_anti-tank_warhead) (HEAT);
20 lb (9 kg) tandem anti-armor
Metal augmented charge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_augmented_charge) (MAC);
18 lb (8 kg) shaped-charge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge)
Blast Fragmentation

Which Hellfire in particular are you referring to?

obgraham
6th Feb 2015, 21:39
They did:-


Quote:

Those charged:-
Seems to me that if you simply lock up anyone named Mohammed you'll make a huge dent in the criminal population.

G-CPTN
6th Feb 2015, 21:49
Seems to me that if you simply lock up anyone named Mohammed you'll make a huge dent in the criminal population.
There are too many such named nowadays.

Muhammed really is most popular baby name in the UK (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muhammed-really-is-most-popular-baby-name-in-the-uk--as-is-mohammed-muhammad-9895605.html).

N707ZS
6th Feb 2015, 23:07
Thanks G-CPTN, I see there are no Smith's in the list!

Toadstool
6th Feb 2015, 23:44
Seems to me that if you simply lock up anyone named Mohammed you'll make a huge dent in the criminal population.

Not really. Do a wee bit more research and get back when you finally know something.

RatherBeFlying
7th Feb 2015, 00:59
Some extracts from:

Burning Victims to Death: Still a Common Practice

In addition, because the Hellfire missiles fired from drones often incinerate the victims’ bodies, and leave them in pieces and unidentifiable, traditional burial processes are rendered impossible. As Firoz Ali Khan, a shopkeeper whose father-in-law’s home was struck, graphically described, “These missiles are very powerful. They destroy human beings . . .There is nobody left and small pieces left behind. Pieces. Whatever is left is just little pieces of bodies and cloth.” A doctor who has treated drone victims described how “[s]kin is burned so that you can’t tell cattle from human.” When another interviewee came upon the site of the strike that killed his father, “[t]he entire place looked as if it was burned completely, so much so that even [the victims’] own clothes had burnt. All the stones in the vicinity had become black.” Ahmed Jan, who lost his foot in the March 17 jirga strike, discussed the challenges rescuers face in identifying bodies: “People were trying to find the body parts. We find the body parts of some people, but sometimes we do not find anything.”AGM-114N Metal Augmented Charge (MAC) Thermobaric Hellfire, GlobalSecurity.org, AGM-114N Metal Augmented Charge (MAC) Thermobaric Hellfire (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/agm-114n.htm) (last visited Aug. 17, 2012) (“The new [AGM-114N Thermobaric Hellfire] warhead contains a fluorinated aluminum powder layered between the warhead casing and the PBXN-112 explosive fill. When the PBXN-112 detonates, the aluminum mixture is dispersed and rapidly burns. The resultant sustained high pressure is extremely effective against enemy personnel and structures.”); Explosions and Blast Injuries: A Primer for Clinicians, Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Explosions and Blast Injuries - A Primer for Clinicians|Mass Casualties (http://www.bt.cdc.gov/masscasualties/explosions.asp) (last visited on Sept. 17, 2012) (outlining one of the types of blast injuries as “burns (flash, partial, and full thickness”)).

Burning Joan of Arc in a public square turned out very badly for English rule on the other side of the Channel. Daesh is about to relearn that lesson.

obgraham
7th Feb 2015, 02:44
Not really. Do a wee bit more research and get back when you finally know something.
Are you really that dense, or is it an act?

funfly
7th Feb 2015, 10:21
GCPTN

Mohammed the most popular name?

That doesn't mean that more babies are called Mohammed that all other babies it just means that single name is used more than any other names.

Toadstool
7th Feb 2015, 16:18
Are you really that dense, or is it an act?

OB

you'll have to try a wee bit harder than that Any facts to back up your Faux news inspired rubbish?

Lonewolf_50
9th Feb 2015, 13:17
Rather be flying, you might be surprised at how familiar I am with Hellfire missiles and their actual use in real life.

Your general statement about them is what I was getting at. Your post projects the assumption/assertion that they are all N's. Pro Tip: They aren't.

You will notice that there are a variety of warheads, suited to various missions and targets.

But keep on grinding your axe, it's entertaining.

rgbrock1
9th Feb 2015, 13:21
The original intention for the use of the AGM-114/Hellfire was as an anti-tank munition.

rgbrock1
9th Feb 2015, 15:02
Eclan wrote:

Who's 'we'? Feel free to lead the way!Lead The Way? Why, Rangers Lead The Way. All The Way.

http://www.angelfire.com/hero/uniformedwarriors/army/rangers/r1a.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpatriotnationonline.ning.com%2Fphoto%2Frang ers-lead-the-way%3Fcontext%3Dlatest&ei=mtvYVOWJFIzjsASVyYDgBQ&bvm=bv.85464276,d.cWc&psig=AFQjCNHrXkrH8c2KmsKVaTgCZJgfQNzJ0g&ust=1423584105852377)

Lonewolf_50
9th Feb 2015, 15:52
The original intention for the use of the AGM-114/Hellfire was as an anti-tank munition.
As with a lot of other munitions, the options to customize were explored when the services expanded what they used Hellfire for. For example, the Navy wanted a smaller weapon than Penguin or Harpoon for smaller targets. You may not need AP or HEAT rounds to take out a small patrol boat.

Also, blast frag/anti personnel warheads became a good option when you see the drone attacks back in 2002 and their effects.

The Metal Augmented Charge munition was a mod developed for a particular need/targeting requirement. I think the IOC was around 2003. The warhead itself was based on a Navy requirement, but I wonder if the Marines were the ones driving it. Don't know that piece of the story.
A few notes from Global Security . org, not sure how solid their facts are.

a. Initial tests were against a bunker and cave on China Lake's Land Range, and against a multi-room structure at White Sands Missile Range.
b. All tests were completed successfully, verifying the performance of the MAC warhead.
c. Multiple missiles were deployed and successfully employed in the opening of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
d. DefSec Rumsfeld cited this weapon as a case of high-speed research and development executed to meet a critical battlefield need, with the project going from development to deployment in less than one year.
e. Navy JAG (Code 10) JAO commented in late 2002 on a legal review of the Hellfire PBXN-112/MAC warhead missile. The missile provides increased effectiveness against targets typically encountered in Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT) by creating increased blast over-pressure and impulse to defeat multi-room structures.
f. The missile is also effective against caves, light armor, trucks, radar vans, buildings, light bunkers, command and control sites, patrol boats, light ships, the superstructure of heavy ships, deck mounted weapons systems and troop concentrations.
g. Navy JAG revised the review to include discussion of the BLU-118 (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/blu-118.htm) and the thermobaric SMAW (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/smaw.htm), two weapons systems already in the inventory which also rely on over-pressure as the killing mechanism.
So there you have it. The better Big Mac, with better secret sauce and tastier cheese. :p Don't be on the receiving end.