VIP medium twin

[bluesafari]

Have been asked to think about another machine for a private A109E owner. He is thinking about AW139, I'm inclined to AS365N3. He needs 6 or 7 seats in VIP configuration but more room than that in the 109, anybody care to comment, suggest alternatives?

[212man]

How about the AW169?

[HU500D]

Get a 412 EPI in exec. configuration.

[Dorsetflyer]

Depends where you want to base it and what sort of flying you want to do with it?

[C4]

AW139 hands down over 365N3, definitely not 412EPi...

[ShyTorque]

You can't have a VIP helicopter with skids!

[Maff]

EC145 T2 ?

[Upland Goose]

Oh come on Shy - I cut my teeth in VIP Corporate flying with an AS355F1 at 450 hrs a year.

I do take your point though

I much preferred your gorgeous A109S.

Why not a Bell 214ST on skids?

Now there is downwash ! UG:cool:

[Rabina]

Dauphin all the way. You surrender all control of maintenance and aftermarket parts support with AW.

[Mast Bumper]

A139, A169 or S-76. Since he already has employees familiar with the Agusta way of doing things, I would give their products a slight advantage.

[rantanplane]

hmm..becoming dependent on one manufacturer. Maybe cheaper but not wiser?

[tottigol]

Who says the ancient only has skids?
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/1/3/4/1217431.jpg

It'ssecondary use is that of shopping cart.

[PhlyingGuy]

Unless you're somewhere desperate to always be ready to go... I wouldn't go with a 412 at all.

I agree... I'd go with a AW139 (pricey) or find a nice used S-76.

[Never in Balance]

If you can wait, I'd go for the AW169. Depends how urgently you need it.

[Tokunbo]

The 365 N3 has the same sized cabin as the N2 and for 7 people in VIP configuration it would be very cramped. The ones I flew in VIP role were configured for 4 people, with the possibility of increasing to 5 by folding away the video screen. The advantage is better single engine power than the S76, smoother ride and the fenestron is good for going into bush sites, villages etc., where there is always the danger of people walking into the tail rotor.
The 412 requires far too much maintenance and is slow and rough!
If you want something currently available go for the AW139. That's very comfortable for 6 or 7. If you're willing to wait, as 212 man says, think about the AW 169.

[9Aplus]

Have been told last week, that 169 certification is matter of couple weeks. Production run already started.
Within 2-3 months must be one available for customer DEMO in Cascina Costa....

[Keepitup]

All depends on what you want the machine to do, we are in talks with a couple of customers, whom are interested in the 169.

If you wish to discuss further, options etc...... send me a PM

Regards

Keepitup

[ShyTorque]

Oh come on Shy - I cut my teeth in VIP Corporate flying with an AS355F1 at 450 hrs a year.

I do take your point though

U-G, I actually thought that it was YOUR quote from some long time ago when we saw something quite posh but on metal planks, clattering to the tarmac at EGLW! ;)

[Peter-RB]

But Skids are multi purpose multi conditions landing surface, plus the don' get any punctures..?

Unless its purely a totty delivery machine..:ok:

[tottigol]

Here'a novel idea from Bell.

http://lotnictwo.net/pic/0401/0401130021.jpg

[fatmanmedia]

retractable wheels look better on a VIP helicopter. Are they better than skids? that's a debate for another thread.

On the central matter of what he should get i agree that going for another AW product would be better than going for another manufacture just by the fact that the supply lines would be simpler with known procedures and in house maintenance would be easier as techs would be more up to speed on the general designs of the new products.

fats

[ShyTorque]

But Skids are multi purpose multi conditions landing surface, plus the don' get any punctures..?

Skids have their advantages for some roles, but VIPs attending the royal pageant prefer not to land in places where their shoes get dirty. Also, quite tricky and embarrassing when necessary to ground taxi to your parking spot next to the VIP suite.

[rantanplane]

plus the don' get any punctures..?

no high heel VIP's with the wheels then!

but think about all the half emptied Champagne glasses and the extra comfort when contacting mother earth with pneumatic tires hanging on a proper suspension system

[krypton_john]

... and skids don't roll off into the weeds when the park brake decides to relax and no chocks used!

[NickLappos]

Skids have only one advantage - easier maintenance. The myth that skids are superior to wheels for off-site landings has been dispelled by the thousands of military helicopters bought and used since soldiers discovered how crappy skids are.
The dsadvantage of skids? Many - have to hover to move, which means they park you in the south 40 when you have to discharge passengers. You can't roll up to the passengers as they wait, without blowing them to kingdom come. You have to get tricky platforms or jacks to perform basic ground handling, and that stuff is only at home base when you need it somewhere else.

I took a Colonel out one time to show him the fibs the skid salesmen had fed him were pure myth (wheels can't land on slopes....") by picking the worst slope I could find and landing him on it - about 13 degrees. He was mighty nervous as we settled onto the slope, and had trouble sitting square in his seat. I asked him if he wanted to get out and walk around, he said it was too steep. I said maybe he should get wheels instead of feet next time, and he laughed all the way home.

Seriously, skids on a VIP helicopter is like screen doors on a submarine, seems like a good idea until you try them.

[rantanplane]

at least chocks work on wheels - but not on skids :ouch:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/532768-rescue-helicopter-slides-into-snowmobile.html#post8286050