Tired and Sad

[anotherbusdriver]

Recently learned that Airbus F/O's, senior enough to be doing initial Command training are being offered a Command on the B777, instead of being kept on type.
By switching fleets as an F/O, waiting a few months, then doing right to left on the B777.
A few years ago, as an F/O, I was senior enough to move to B744 as an F/O, but told that if I took the position, it would delay my Command upgrade as I had to spend a minimum of two years on type first.
Now it seems, that rule is no longer enforced.
This is demoralising, and disgusting for any Senior Captain on the Airbus, trying desperately to get across to the B777.
I have even requested going back to F/O to go over as an F/O, but they will not allow it.
Instead, effectively very junior officers are taking command slots on a (what is now considered) "Senior Fleet", whilst officers having spent up to 20 years in the company are being forced to watch it and weep.
I am so very, very sad, and angry, and tired. This is just completely wrong.

[el commandante]

Just relax and wait.
777 is now at the zenith. 777F will come. It will still be a good roster but everybody will have his fair share of freighter flying. BOM is also going back to the 777.
Wait for the 350. Airbus will have the most interesting flying in the company.

But yes, I agree that those FO's should do 2 years in the right seat first. Basically they take a command slot which should go to a more senior captain.

[anotherbusdriver]

"May you live in interesting times" (may your flying be most interesting) ...
Isn't that an old Chinese curse? :p
Sorry, give me NY, London, Rome, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, LA, Paris....... I don't need interesting. I want G days, I want sleep.

Plus the argument of "Common Jet Salary" is not fair.
Because on my roster, I work twice as hard, mostly all nights, and never really go over 84 hours.
New Captains on 777, many years junior to me, are doubling their salaries every month on overtime, but doing half the work I am, sleeping twice as long, and have twice as many G days. It isn't a fair comparison, and everybody knows it.

[gofor]

In the past you could change fleets and do command the same time - long course. It is only recent that you can only do short course command - ie same type. Early command on the freighter, bases and delaying commands, it is all swings and round abouts and you cant expect to have your cake and eat it all the time. Just wait for the next batch of DEFO's.

[ron burgandy]

Busdriver, what you've just described is one aspect in the complete lack of integrity in this company.
Because there is absolutely no integrity from their side, whether it be in rostering, in negotiating, in fleet choice, in contract adherence…..basically any area you care to name, I see no reason why we should have any integrity in our dealings with them.

For this reason, I suggest that if you find yourself in the predicament of

"New Captains on 777, many years junior to me, are doubling their salaries every month on overtime, but doing half the work I am, sleeping twice as long, and have twice as many G days. It isn't a fair comparison, and everybody knows it."

then take the appropriate action to make it a fair comparison.

Eventually they may figure out that running an airline with 20% unfitness is not a productive way to run a business. Huge productivity gains could be realised if a collaborative, rather than combative, approach was adopted in their dealings with this pilot group. :ugh:

[geh065]

I think you all forgot the long time 777 boys and girls had a roster resembling a current Airbus roster for years. Eventually the 777 roster will get worse again and the Airbus roster will get better. One may be "fairer" at the time but overall it all balances out for most people.

[Arfur Dent]

Have you brought this particular example of the CX policy towards Aircrew to the attention of Senior Management by writing a letter?
I mean 'Senior' too. DFO level and copied to the CEO so that RH has to give a considered reply that looks like it isn't just another example of crewing incompetence.
Try it and get your similarly disadvantaged Captain mates to do the same. Be reasonable and polite - don't rant - and make a case for a solution ( ie you go to the 777 and new Capt replaces you on the 'bus.)
You are, believe it or not, quite valuable to even the most 'aircrew-hating' executive. They didn't all get to Oxford Uni by being stupid so make a logical case about being disadvantaged, suggest a solution that is do-able, fire it off and see what happens.
Worth a try!:ok:

[de facto]

A 20 year professional pilot moaning of unfairness in aviation...where were you the last 20 years?golden cage? Get a grip.
I ll go get my kleenex:ugh:

[cxorcist]

Two most useful and encouraging comments here:

1) Don't get mad..., get even.

2) I'm very proud of what I have seen in ANC.

I'll second both of of those!!!

Thanks Gents.

[Flap10]

I think you all forgot the long time 777 boys and girls had a roster resembling a current Airbus roster for years.


errrr....not even close! When the 777 was doing regional stuff you were under the old RPs, you had the protection of 5-4-3, you didn't have free reserves, you didn't have the roster abuses and roster instability that you have now, and above all you had just a few crap flights through the night.


Most of your flying was regionally during the DAY!!!! 90% of my flying now is through the night, it is relentless. Even the regional turn arounds are through the night.


So NO I completely disagree with you, you did NOT have a roster resembling the current Airbus roster. Show me your worst 777 roster and I'll show you my worst Airbus roster, it won't even compare.


You 777 boys and gals have to understand how crap the regional rosters have become, so when it comes to RP negotiations you at least have an appreciation and not easily appease to management demands to sub standard RPs.

[Shep69]

The GOOD thing about where we are now is we (mostly) all have come to the realization we are on the same team and have strongly indicated we will not accept worsening conditions of one group to favor another group--no matter how cleverly worded or how sweet the bribe. Karma has a way of catching up with you. Freighter or Passenger, HKG or Based, Regional or Long Haul, Airbus or Boeing we are all in this together.

Our conditions have deteriorated in the past because we HAVE allowed ourselves to be divided in the past and it's always easy to screw the faceless 'other guy.' Well, the 'other guy' is us.

So hold out and stay the course. Steady as she goes.

[The FUB]

The Jumbo roster is indeed creaking under CC. But there are too many non AOA pilots now lapping up the work on G days. No solidarity.

ps would love to name him

[broadband circuit]

But there are too many non AOA pilots now lapping up the work on G days. No solidarity.

The reality is that they have the same hard FTL limits on flight time & duty, such as annual, weekly, 28 days etc etc.

Any time they change an O day into a duty or a reserve, they're chewing into those limits.

Merely stop gap measures, eventually holes will become unpluggable, as it seems is happening with the freighter in ANC. Keep the line!!

[Hellenic aviator]

Flap10 wrote: [QUOTE] errrr....not even close! When the 777 was doing regional stuff you were under the old RPs, you had the protection of 5-4-3, you didn't have free reserves, you didn't have the roster abuses and roster instability that you have now, and above all you had just a few crap flights through the night.


Most of your flying was regionally during the DAY!!!! 90% of my flying now is through the night, it is relentless. Even the regional turn arounds are through the night.


So NO I completely disagree with you, you did NOT have a roster resembling the current Airbus roster. Show me your worst 777 roster and I'll show you my worst Airbus roster, it won't even compare.


You 777 boys and gals have to understand how crap the regional rosters have become, so when it comes to RP negotiations you at least have an appreciation and not easily appease to management demands to sub standard RPs[QUOTE]

I disagree with you, Flap10. When I joined the 777 fleet, Murray was in charge of the AOA. 5-4-3 went out the window, A days and free reserve came in, and I was doing "all nighters" to the DXB, BAH, BOM and RUH. Sometimes the flights were full that we didn't get a seat in the cabin to rest - our rest seat was the jumpseat. The rosters were horrendous albeit we were reminded by Hoyland that it was legal. We would do DXB/BOM/BKK and see the sunrise abeam Myanmar - on descent we had power naps. The multitude of ASRs submitted didn't change anything.

[BuzzBox]

errrr....not even close! When the 777 was doing regional stuff you were under the old RPs, you had the protection of 5-4-3, you didn't have free reserves, you didn't have the roster abuses and roster instability that you have now, and above all you had just a few crap flights through the night.

I don't wish to get into a pissing contest, BUT...

For a start there was no 5-4-3 protection on the 777. The old 5-4-3 rule only applied to flights that were rostered after a long haul pattern. Given that the 777 didn't do long haul back then, the 5-4-3 rule was not applicable.

As Hellenic Aviation said, it wasn't that long ago that the 777 did all the ME & India stuff. Some of those ME flights were two-crew through the night (DXB-HKG, DXB-BOM-BKK, BOM-DXB-BOM, BOM-BKK-HKG). If we did have a third crew member we often didn't get a seat in the cabin anyway, as the scheduled block time was just under eight hours. We also had the CMB flights (two sectors through the night), the DHL overnight freighters, and the CGK overnight turn-around, which was then rostered with two crew not three.

I have no doubt that the current Airbus roster is worse given the airline's expansion over the last few years, but back in the day the 777 roster was pretty crap too, particularly for the line drivers.

[Flap10]

BuzzBox and Hellenic Aviator,


I also don't wish to get into a pissing contest...BUT you'll have a hard time convincing a current Airbus guy that your old 777 roster was similar because it never was. The two rosters were/are worlds apart!!!


You have absolutely no idea how bad it has gotten on the Airbus. Significantly worse than your old 777 roster.


If we did have a third crew member we often didn't get a seat in the cabin anyway, as the scheduled block time was just under eight hours


You think we get a seat when it's completely full? Nothing new there! I lost count the number of times I've had to rest on the cockpit floor.


DXB-BOM-BKK, BOM-DXB-BOM, BOM-BKK-HKG


you were lucky, we had DXB-BOM-HKG (two crew) until the patterns were changed. Not only that we used to have DXB-min rest during the day...land in the morning and return in the evening.


We also had the CMB flights (two sectors through the night)


Yes we have them now thank you very much


DHL overnight freighters


Yes we had them as well, they were a piece of cake compared to what we
have now.


it wasn't that long ago that the 777 did all the ME & India stuff


Correct me if I'm wrong but you just had BOM and DEL. On top of that the first sector was through the day. I know this because when the Airbus took over it was actually a pleasant flight to DEL and BOM with a very decent departure time out of HKG. It was only the return sector that was through the night. Well try BOM, DEL, HYD, MAA, both sectors through the night. The list is long!!!


CGK overnight turn-around


I'll call BullSh!t on this, I've been on Airbus for a very long time. I distinctly remember when these were introduced. They were introduced around the same time as the DPS middle of the night turn around 2009. The CGK middle of the night turn weren't around back in early 2000.


Granted 5-4-3 may not have played a factor, but you still had paid reserve and you didn't have the roster instability that you have now.


Yes the 777 still does some night turns, not disputing that. But the frequency is so low that you'll end up doing them once in a blue moon. Try on average losing 8-9 nights of sleep per month, every month, for years and years, then come and tell me if the 777 roster was similar.


Again, let's settle this! show me your worst roster and I'll show you mine! it's not that difficult.


My point to this is I don't want those not on the Airbus to take RP negotiations lightly. The Airbus guys are at the moment ( and has been for the past 6-8 years) on the sh!tty end of the rosters. Lets not settle for anything worse just because some are enjoying cushy rosters.

[Pilotpa]

For guys who don't want to get into a pissing contest, you're getting into a pissing contest. It's like arguing with the wife about who's more tired: she because she was up with the little ones; you because you've been up for the last three nights during your WOCL (don't even try to explain that to them). The same applies gender opposite in case anyone is offended.
It all stems down to the fact that the company is rostering to the L of FTL. That's meant to be for seasonal bumps. Run your car to its redline every day and see how long it lasts. Same happens to humans, except when we break down, it results in 20% sickness rates. I don't even want to know what will happen to us in 20 years when they finally figure out that what we do will kill us. We'll all be retired, divorced and mysteriously dying.
Anyway, it's all crap. I remember the 777 roster looking like newsprint and the 330 is no better now. It's just that now the ERs are here with the resultant better rosters. They weren't around then which basically made the 777 a different fleet to what it is now.
Remember who the bad guys are here. It's not us.
You're both right.

[Anotherday]

Looked at 6 months of both rosters side by side, 777 pre ER and the current airbus roster and I'd say the airbus roster is worse.
Did the 777 guys mention that as F/Os you all pissed off to the 400 and it's long haul roster after a year or so on the 777 after QL?
The joke in all this is the 777 guys who say we did it so you now have to.
Dad beat the **** out of me every night he came home from the pub, I'm moving out of the house, now its your turn to get a beating.................
Nobody wins.

[nike]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[anotherbusdriver]

I am sorry that this thread has become a competition. It was not my intention to start a thread about who has had it tougher.

What we all understand is that yes, the Airbus roster sucks, and yes, so too did the B777. It all changed with the big twin doing long haul.

In the old days there were "Senior" and "Junior" fleets. The idea being that the junior officer in their category joined the junior fleet, where they got loads and loads of sectors, operating into challenging ports, doing non-precision approaches, and basically cutting their teeth - before moving on to the "Senior Fleet", where the environment could be potentially more challenging, with the heavier weights, longer flights over remote areas, more challenging winter environments, etc. so requiring the more senior manager with plenty of experience to run the show, and keep the ball rolling with a heavy crew.

So now, there are even less experienced pilots joining CX as a Second Officer. With possibly 200 hours in light aircraft, and maybe 50 Take off and landings?

They become JFO on the B777, then if they go on to stay as FO and then Relief... The only real handling time that pilot will have will be the JFO a time, so maybe 6 months to 1 year of mostly long haul flying. So even if they did 4 take offs and landings per month for that year; that is only another max of 50 handling sectors.

They go on to Relief for the next 7 or 8 years, and you may get a pilot who does 1 take off and landing a month if they are lucky (usually it is 1 every 3 months to keep legally current!)... That equates to max of 12 per year (not including sickness and leave).

So that would only be another 100 operating sectors max, before upgrading to Junior Captain on the "Senior Fleet".

TO ME, THAT'S JUST MADNESS!!

Point being that it was a great philosophy to move junior officers into regional roles where they could get sectors. Where their young keen bodies could bounce back better from the tough flying, but also where they had a chance to "learn to fly", like they didn't get a chance in the Airforce or GA.

Where NTC's about being aware of the Aircraft's energy state after other operator's accidents, and handling sims are probably not required because crews would already be able to fly.

Also, by allowing Senior Officers to move up in Seniority to positions that they aspire to, it gives a "light at the end of the tunnel" mentality to those suffering at the bottom, and also allows those who have "paid their dues" to not become so profoundly unhappy with the system that they are psychologically affected by it.

Everybody would be happier, and it would be fairer, and would be much safer in the long term.

[Arfur Dent]

Good points but the accountants (who rule the CX world) would say - 'What's wrong with that?'. There have been no accidents so they're right eh?
Aircraft are very reiable. And the cheese is quite wide but, given time, this foolish blueprint will result in a serious incident at CX. Another example of a ticking time bomb. CX has quite a few as we know..........:=

[anotherbusdriver]

Well actually Arfur, there have been two very recent accidents,: the Air France, and now the Air Asia, that have both crashed with the extremely inexperienced co-pilot at the controls. Both handling accidents.

[ChinaBeached]

busdriver, a genuine question, but one I fear will be met with a not too pleasant response:

Why is it only when one's own personal lifestyle or CoS or remuneration package is threatened that (CX) pilots feel the need to call out and say "This is wrong / unfair!"

I don't see those getting upgraded or moved sideways from the Airbus fleet to the 777 fleet complaining and saying "I shouldn't do this. I'm potentially screwing a colleague over." No. I also don't hear a peep from AOA. Heaven forbid they (pilots in general but more so AOA members) decide it's "fair" to not accept a move to the 777 fleet (as per this example) at the expense of a more senior colleague, but to respect seniority and wait their turn. That may mean loss of income or lifestyle for some individuals but the greater good & long term conditions are protected.

It's only when ONE'S OWN conditions are threatened when people decide to voice a concern & vent some anger....and then the magic words "Someone should do something about this!" But until then so many appear to be lanyard parading AOA members with their own self interest at the very core. Sort of defies the definition of union (ooops - "Association") no?

Again, a genuine question. No offence intended. In fact I sympathise with your situation and wish things were different, and by that I mean fair. However one's past (the AOA's and CX management's) behaviour is the greatest predicator of future behaviour.

[ChinaBeached]

If the scratch cuts too close to the bone then so bit it, logically speaking of course.....

As per the majority of your posts where you disagree with another's point of view, you come out attacking the person and not the ball. You think this is some platform for a p!ssing contest than it is to argue points of view. "15 - Love.... Your Serve." ????? Congratulations. You win. Like masturbation...when it's game played solo you'll win every time, or in your case draw the short straw to a one-sided victory. (Pun intended).

Argue the merits of your opinion & I'll gladly do the same with mine. If I'm proven wrong I'll also readily admit so. Until then I'm so bored with swapping posts to re-direct one's ego back to the main topic of asking them to justify their opinions.

And as you or most already know - I did stand my ground. I voted with my feet and said no to what so many sat back & did nothing about, including the AOA. I didn't have to depart the industry to maintain my integrity - something which you seem to believe is necessary.

Any person, be they a pilot or any person in any industry has every right to argue ("moan" as you put it) against breaches of the terms of their contracts, or the degradation of them which against the nature and definition of the original agreement. HOWEVER, if for example going to HK and complaining about the cost of living or pollution or influences of communist China into the HK SAR, etc, etc... is plain pathetic when you received exactly what you applied for and asked for in the first place.

So, no. I don't "moan" about what I applied for, interviewed for, requested and received. I did what you seem to believe impossible: I said no and walked away.

My sympathies are still with the wider CX pilot group as to how they are treated and the continued threats to your CoS, and more so with 'busdriver in this example. But while there are guys like you around then CX's divide and conquer mentality will remain strong and well: after all, it's all about YOU. There's a reason for the term "whinging pom".

So my point still remains the same, as you've so easily shown.

[White None]

Jeepers China! Still pulling arrows out but can I ask one genuine question. In the ebb and flow of fortunes ANY individual comes across throughout a career like this, one way to get through is to :-

A) Stoically get on with things when it's your turn to draw a hand not to ones liking.

B) Grasp the good one in return when it pops up a few years later.

C) In parallel with that one can simultaneously attempt to right wrongs and improve things for all through Union membership and involvement.

I've personally had a couple of As, one B and keep going with C.

That Question: Looking at the big picture should I have thrown over my one good B opportunity?

In the meanwhile,a bit of light hearted banter and pithy ribbing of fellow avatars is a bit of light relief. I appear to have hit a nerve in your case - I genuinely had no idea you have left? CX? HKG? so if that appeared deliberately aimed, not so. In which case the "15 - Love your serve" would most certainly have seemed like a pissing contest entry, but as regards that comment my pants were zipped.

I guess "Deuce" and break for Tea and Tiffin would be out of the question?

[Arfur Dent]

Which heads will roll, Frank?
We, as a generic group, are poor at bothering to write things down if, eventually, everything turns out well. Most of the time that's exactly what happens, of course. How many times have UK/EUR pilots done an AL that includes an early morning departure from Manilla or Tokyo? How often have we put up with appalling, thoughtless 'legal' rostering because it seems too hard not to? How often, when we are subjected to what can only be described as 'rostering abuse', do we report it by means of an ASR/ASR(F)/ MOR/ letter to the Fleet Office copied to the CAA/ report to the AOA??
We don't bother so the hapless Manager (poor Dear) really has very little ammo with which to make a case even if he/she wanted to.
I once asked why 3AL's on the trot were rostered as above ie with return sectors that effectively started for me at about 0100 with no sleep. A 'licence busting', potentially difficult trip that is deliberately planned at such a time!! The answer was that they would continue to roster such a flight ( preceded of course by an 18-30 hour 'rest period') becuse 'nobody complains'.
So there we have it. I have personally submitted post AL ASR(F)'s on 2 occassions and never heard any more about it. Next time, I will simply go sick in Tokyo due to predictable lack of rest and they can find someone else to fly the return sector of my AL. Can you imagine what kind of reception that would get when the last 50 UK based Captains have all 'completed the mission' successfully. If 10 of the first such pilots to be rostered that way went sick in Tokyo CC would never roster such a trip again.
Point is, mate, that nobody in CX or CAD would be held accountable unless something illegal had been done. Pilots would be blamed.
And that's just rostering. Corporate negligence in recruiting inappropriate cadets to fly serious machinery is another time bomb altogether!!:E

[ChinaBeached]

No raw nerve WN. The topic started by 'busdriver is a valid one & good for discussion in many branches & avenues related. I am just tired of general discussions & points of view that are immediately met with vitriol or attack when a logical swapping of ideas, arguments & points of view are thrown away.

I raised the question as a genuine thought seeking others' opinions. And yes, I knew it'd draw some heat because people generally don't like their industrial relations opinions or thoughts called into question. In fact pilots seem to exercise their rights & their action / inaction accordingly in a way to mimic investor rules of engagement: act out of fear or greed & rarely ever for the greater good (ie as per what a union or association is meant to defend).

Am all for light hearted banter - I just don't feel that attack is the most ideal primary form of conversation. So let's agree to leave it at that? I'm happy to discuss things related to this topic.

[missingblade]

Corporate negligence in recruiting inappropriate cadets to fly serious machinery is another time bomb altogether!!


I nominate Arfut Dent for post of the day!!!!!

[ChinaBeached]

WN:

As I mentioned, it seems to me that (CX) pilots seem to make such industrial decisions based on just that: greed or fear. This my opinion based on a lot of studying of CX (pre and post 1994), having read Warham's book, my own personal experiences with CX, from nearly all or most AOA updates, DFO and GM updates as well as many, many colleagues at CX, resigned from CX or retired from CX.

I cannot speak for that one chance that flowed past in the river of scum as you put it. Maybe it was a chance grasped at for fear due a belief of nothing else or better presenting itself later?

My point refers to pilots wishing to see action taken only when they suffer personally, and rarely if ever when a collective good could benefit from some other decision or action. It is only then that we hear "we should do something" because of what happened to the "me".

As I've mentioned before, take C-Scale. The AOA did absolutely nothing about it. Nothing. Zero. Nadda. Nil. Zilch. Some rhetoric in one or two updates but that was it. Why, when this was such a massive attack on pilots' remuneration package? Why? Because back then the decision making members of the AOA, i.e. the GC didn't see it showing any loss of terms & conditions, CoS or remuneration package affecting THEM. The Association designed and defined to protect the collective group sat deafeningly idle. Nothing ever put to the members to vote on in order to protect the future (key word there!) of pilot's T&C's, CoS and all over remuneration package.

You mentioned "your" one good opportunity. The essence is on "your" opportunity. I don't know what that was. C-Scale? If so then I'll argue strongly that this was far, far, far from any "good opportunity" - but that's for another thread, or re-read past posts from others including me. So as not to deviate further from the thread I'm happy to discuss that via PMs.

Having said that had the Association that exists to protect pilots' rights, terms, conditions and CoS, etc have acted in a way (well, any way for that matter) to fight such a raping of pilot contracts and remuneration package then C-Scale may have been avoided. In so doing saving many from themselves, as we all need doing from time to time.

Fall on my sword as you ask? In your terms I did. I explored every avenue to investigate the offer before me including meeting with CX HR and more over many, many conversations with friends at CX: SO's, FO's and Capt's. I swapped several emails & letters with the AOA. The overwhelming evidence & advice from all sources (including CX HR - they have husbands as CX pilots and knew the ramifications of such a contract) was to not take it for all the right reasons. The sword I fell on as you say ended up being a blessing in disguise. I now have a widebody career with a package that will allow me to retire comfortably from, sound career progression, money to save for investments and I can raise a family on a single income when and as those single income times come about in life. Is life perfect? No. But I do not moan about what I asked for, applied for, accepted and receive.

So, back to 'busdriver's post. I can appreciate why he's sick and tired. At CX it seems every 3-5 years there's another push & shove that threatens pilots' T&C's. Here is it lifestyle that should be rewarded on the back of seniority.

Will those Airbus pilots being offered a 777 conversation and upgrade so no to that opportunity coming past in that river of scum? Probably or most definitely not, because as I mentioned, past behaviour is the greatest indicator of future behaviour in the CX pilot community's culture of "me first", while parading the AOA lanyard that is meant to represent the complete opposite.

[White None]

Fair Answer - don't necessarily agree with all of it but hey... admire the courage of your personal convictions. It kinda doesn't seem like you've achieved closure over the whole thing though, to be so active here, and have such detailed opinions about an organisation you chose to leave behind you. Genuinely hope you and family get there.

[anotherbusdriver]

You're right China, we only start moaning when something ****ty starts to happen to us.

It is human nature, the survival of the fittest, and the struggle for existence and all that.

I kind of think it is a bit like if a child gets a splinter. The child cries out and mum or dad come with tweezers hopefully and pull it out.

But what would happen if the child cried and nobody came and helped? Mum and dad just said, "Hey, stop whining. We had splinters, they were bigger and tougher than that splinter you've got. Bad luck. Life sucks. Get on with it".

I'm not a psychologist, but I think I know what would happen. It's kind of what is happening now in CX, on the Airbus fleet, and from what others are saying, the 744 fleet too.

And to use another analogy (which I think has been used here before): what is happening is like an engine being run at red line (and often times over when the operator deems it "should" be OK, because it wasn't stated that it "couldn't"), to the point that it is constantly run at the limit.
We all know an engine was not designed to be run at limits, and we all know what happens to engines that are operated like that. They break down, become unreliable. Need more servicing. And sometimes they just stop, and never start again.

It will be interesting, of that I'm sure.

"May the company operate in interesting times".....

[Blowback]

Interesting interpretation of events that are considered unacceptable by crew members.

Harassment takes many forms but can generally be defined as unwelcome behaviour which a reasonable person would consider to be offensive or intimidating or which otherwise creates a hostile or offensive working environment

Intimidation of other crew members not following Contract compliance is a no no

But crew control putting pressure on crew to operate flights during G days or rest periods between sectors is deemed okay

So being told by a crew controller
"But if you don't help out we will have to cancel the flight "
Or my personal,favourite " Oh but don't you have 2 hours of discretion "
Or "But it's legal " when querying the 12+ hours of Duty travel following a 10 hour sector

If that isn't unacceptable pressure I don't know what is

[ChinaBeached]

Yes - agreed. All too often human nature doesn't permit us to see a bigger picture or to see the warning signs until too late. However I do feel that the AOA is perhaps that parent & comprises of team(s) of "professionals" to guide the membership for the greater good. "Don't climb into that bush of thorns" would be an apt warning to prevent splinters & as I mentioned is a way to protect people from themselves.

For me, & others it seems, the AOA & pilots in general only target the fights applicable to their own back pockets, own careers or own lifestyle.

Personally I wish you a better & more satisfying career. Seniority has been earned & deserves to be respected.

The same with CC. My mates at CX however tell me that while many are following it there are still too many lanyard parading individuals still working on G days as well as other "me first" agendas. Still, I hope it works. You (at CX) deserve a better deal & more over respect from your management.