Film Footage of a spinning Jag'.

[DADDY-OH!]

' Morning All,
It's just possible someone on here can stop me from going mad!!

When I was a teenager (early-mid 1980's) my best mate's Dad worked in ATC at a certain British military aircraft production factory on the Lancashire coast.

He used to bring the occasional video home from the factory library. For those here it was such as the BAC/MBB JP233 promo footage, Off-roading Jag' at Farnborough/ On-Off M55 motorway footage, Lightning, TSR2 stuff, some really excellent videos of stuff that transfixed us every time we heard an overhead roar or scream.

Since then, with the advent of the Internet I have been able to watch, courtesy of YouTube, a lot of these videos, all except one in particular

The video I'd like to see again was of a Prototype Jaguar, IIRC, that was conducting Spinning Trials, somewhere over NW England, tumbling out of the sky like confetti, fuel vapour flowing the wrong way through the engines, dramatic music, hairs up on the back of the neck, exciting stuff!

The Test Pilot was ordered to eject if he couldn't recover the aircraft by either a pre-determined altitude or number of rotations, IIRC, as we were told by my mate's Dad. But the plucky bugger stayed with it & aircraft & pilot tumbled out of the spin, recovered at a low-ish altitude & RTB'd, all the while with a camera man from the Film Unit whirring his 8mm Cine' or so it seemed & the rescue Whirlwind getting in shot too.

It was brilliant footage, never since seen. Does anybody out there know where I may be able to see it or better still post it on here??

Many many thanks in advance.

Kindest regards

D-O!

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

Part of the video is in an episode of the TV show Test Pilots. Seen here at about the 1:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycJ1m0PRYEM

I recall seeing a longer version, though.

[DADDY-OH!]

Thanks Mad'! That is indeed a clip of the aforementioned film.

I've saved the clip, for retrieval during periods of withdrawal symptoms.

Am I right in thinking the TP in that Jag' was either Reggie Stock or Eric Bucklow?

Kind regards

D-O!

[bvcu]

know the clip you mean, but i seem to recall reading that the spinning was done in France from Istres.

[Neptunus Rex]

Many moons ago, when I was a QFI at Linton, we had given the classroom long brief on spinning the Jet Provost to our students, to be followed by the airborne spinning exercise the following day.

That evening, the Jaguar spinning video was shown on local television, and most of our students saw it.

The next day, we had one very humbled bunch of studes shamble nervously into morning briefing, but they were all word-perfect on Standard Spin Recovery!

[JohnFTEng]

The French may have spin tested their versions at Istres but UK also did spin testing. I wasn't part of that team but did see the extensive work done in prep for the tests. Jag was fitted with usual antispin chute and instrumentation. Special care was taken in build up because of known possibility of a/c entering a fast-flat spin that was likely unrecoverable. Special spin panel fitted with direction of spin lights and a very bright light to signal below minimum altitude - eject now. Tests were carried out over Yorkshire Moors area in 74/75

[Octane]

Last night I watched all 6 episodes of "Test Pilot". Sadly a few of the episodes had poor/ no audio. All the same, a fascinating show. If you have a few hours up your sleeve...
I'm very curious to know what became of the pupils and tutors in the show. Nearly 30 years on many will be retired but I wonder if some of the pupils are now high ranking officers in their respective airforces?

Cheers

Octane

[Pittsextra]

Our Tutors (http://www.etps.qinetiq.com/school/tutors/fixedwing/Pages/Dave-Southwood.aspx)

[Octane]

Thanks Pittsextra,

The fleet is not quite the same. The smiles on the guys faces (44) after flying the Lightning was priceless....

[Genghis the Engineer]

Last night I watched all 6 episodes of "Test Pilot". Sadly a few of the episodes had poor/ no audio. All the same, a fascinating show. If you have a few hours up your sleeve...
I'm very curious to know what became of the pupils and tutors in the show. Nearly 30 years on many will be retired but I wonder if some of the pupils are now high ranking officers in their respective airforces?

Cheers

Octane

One of those students still posts on PPrune (not me, I was at a rather less prestigious school at the time, but remember watching it when it came out).

G

[Octane]

Aha! Thanks Genghis.

If that man is about maybe he can enlighten me/ us re the subsequent careers of his classmates? (names need not be mentioned)

Cheers

Octane

[HarleyD]

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Certification flight testing seminar (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_93285)

Splendid chap, still has that outrageous handlebar.

HD

[NutLoose]

It's on the Sepecat Jaguar video I think, I have a copy but nothing to play it on lol! if you can play it pm me an address and it's yours.

[Nick 1]

Last night I watched all 6 episodes of "Test Pilot". Sadly a few of the episodes had poor/ no audio. All the same, a fascinating show. If you have a few hours up your sleeve...
I'm very curious to know what became of the pupils and tutors in the show. Nearly 30 years on many will be retired but I wonder if some of the pupils are now high ranking officers in their respective airforces?

Cheers

Octane


Here is the italian one....

Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Transformation (http://www.act.nato.int/deputy-supreme-allied-commander-transformation)

Cheers.

[Nick 1]

From Pprune search:

""LOMCEVAK
26th Jun 2002, 23:43
A long, long, time ago......The last I heard, this is what everyone was doing:

-Serge Aubert was FAF base commander at Djbouti.
-Nick Coulson was at ARDU (RAAF test centre) but I believe has recently left the RAAF.
-Les Evans is flying Concorde with BA.
-Harry Fehl is at WTD61, Manching (GAF test centre).
-Tom Koelzer (USN), unknown.
-Jim Ludford, with BMI.
-Steve Moore, see earlier posts.
-Dave Southwood, civilian tutor at ETPS.
-Robin Tydeman, AAIB inspector and line flying with Air2000.
-Mirco Zuliani, a Colonel in ItAF.

And the rotes,
-Bob Horton with Jersey European out of Exeter.
-Al Howden flying Chinooks with the RAF.
-J T Koh, still in RSing AF and involved in flight test.
-"Mike" Meikeljohn, unknown.
-Gil Yannai, still in IAF.

Carefully arranged in alphabetical order to leave you wondering which one I am!!
:confused: ""

There was also an israel AF pilot on Course 44 , but he was never filmed.

Cheers.

[josephfeatherweight]

Part of the video is in an episode of the TV show Test Pilots. Seen here at about the 1:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycJ1m0PRYEM

I recall seeing a longer version, though.]

Did anyone else see the awesome flight safety poster at 5:12?
"BE SAFE - don't assume"
Man, I hate this day of political correctness, they knew how to do it then!

[ExWtnFTE]

Hi all, I have just come across this thread purely by chance so have registered in the hope this information, although late, may be of use to the original poster and others.

Back in the early 70s I was a member of the flight test department at Warton working on the Jaguar project and specifically I was part of the group which managed the test aircraft - wrote the schedules, briefed the pilots etc. “My” aircraft was Jaguar E02 which had been brought over from France in 1971 and which after a programme of engine trials was used for the first phase of the two seat spinning trials in 1974, as best I recall.

My job to took me to the control tower very frequently and I certainly knew the ATCO referred to in the original post.

It is indeed a shame that the Jaguar spinning film is not on the Internet, a few years ago a fellow member of the team told me he had the original film and was going to digitise it but I've not heard from him since. The film referred to in the original post of the aircraft tumbling and with smoke all around was taken from the ground at Istres, France, and is of the preceding trials by single seat Jaguar A03. We had no ground to air photography on EO2’s flights.

All the first phase two-seat Jaguar spinning flights from Warton were conducted by deputy chief test pilot Tim Ferguson. All test pilots are very brave people but Tim must be one of the bravest of all for having conducted these trials. He was indeed told to bale out if the spin had not been recovered by a certain altitude and at least once he was told to do that and at least once he did not obey and managed to get the aircraft safely back to base. We also had an incident when the cockpit instruments showed he was low on fuel and he made an emergency landing at an RAF base. Reg Stock and Eric Bucklow were not regular Jaguar pilots at that time, IIRC.

JohnFTEng is correct, and yes, the trials took place around the Settle area, so we could get at the bits if the worst happened. The local paper once reported that a part of the aircraft’s kit did descend to earth….

I left Warton in November 74, some months after these spinning trials we completed, but well before Phase 2 started. Jaguar E02 is (the last time I looked) preserved as “E1” in Bordeaux, proof that Tim always made it home safely.

[Pilot DAR]

Welcome ExWtnFTE,

We appreciate your post, and the interesting information. I can think of so many fascinating flight tests which were flown, and filmed, but for which the film version is not known to be available digitally.

Please do share more of your stories for flight testing! There is so much to learn, and there are many eager readers here, who would really appreciate the opportunity to learn.

Cheers, Pilot DAR

[Pittsextra]

Look here :-

JAGUAR HANDLING AT HIGH INCIDENCE [Main Title] (DRF 7685) (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060027021)

[Leo45]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW7zF2PpuoY

[ExWtnFTE]

Hi, guys,

Many thanks for the posts since I chipped in here. The video with the French commentary I have not seen before, but I do have a copy of the IWM film. Sandy Burns was an amazing guy, incredible rain and a wonderful way of teaching us youngsters, who also died well before this time.
In this video where you see a 2-seat cockpit without the explosive MDC in the canopy, that is a phase 1 trial with Tim Ferguson. The MDC was fitted for phase 2 flown - after I left Warton - by Jerry Lee, I believe.
The Istres-based single seat spinning Jaguar and EO2, used at Warton, both had the same instrument panel.
But somewhere there is far more BAC film of the two seat escapades with Tim, if only I was still in contact with my former colleague who I know has the original!!
As the IWM narrative says, we never recovered from a 2-seat spin been without using the parachute.... and Tim did get very close to 10,000ft!!
Cheers!

[ExWtnFTE]

Just to clarify a point, yesterday by chance I re-visited the autobiography (blog) of a former colleague on the Jaguar flight test team, David Brown - he and I sat about 3 desks apart for a couple of years and shred iifts to work!

Chapter 9

http://viewfromthecockpit.********.co.uk/2009/07/chapter-9-farewell-to-england.html

gives some more detail of the spinning, including that it was prototype M05 that did the single seat tests from Istres.

Hope this is of interest (the blog is written from California, hence the US vocab!)

[john_tullamarine]

Nick Coulson was at ARDU (RAAF test centre) but I believe has recently left the RAAF.

Nikko left the RAF to become the CASA TP. Can be contacted via CASA HO at Canberra