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meadowrun
24th Jan 2015, 10:06
Two of the so-called "Bali Nine" smugglers, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran , for whom clemency has been denied may be executed as early as this weekend.


Families of both and a slew of celebrities are pleading for their lives.


They are good "Boys" who have re-habilitated in prison and are very sorry.


8.2K of Heroin. Street value in Australia is around $574,000. After normal cutting - real street value approx. $1,700,000.


But they are sorry.

Tankertrashnav
24th Jan 2015, 10:21
Interesting to read that the method of execution used in Indonesia is firing squad. Can never understand why, that given the national obsession with firearms, the USA doesnt use this method (Texas in particular). It would avoid all those screw-ups with lethal injections.

rh200
24th Jan 2015, 10:26
It would avoid all those screw-ups with lethal injections.
There was some talking head on the box the other day saying how brutal the firing squad was compared to the electric chair.:ugh:

onetrack
24th Jan 2015, 10:42
It appears, with the upsurge in drug pushing and related crime in Australia, the Bali Nine are getting precious little sympathy from the general public - and Tony Abbott knows it.

These people turned their whole lives and existence into pushing drugs, and cared little about the damage they caused to individuals and society in general.

They ran drugs through this country, knowing full well the penalties of that country for drug-dealing.

It's not like the drug-dealing penalty knowledge is hidden, the warning signs are in your face everywhere - and in English.

As someone once said, some peoples lives are only for one reason - to serve as a warning example to others. I won't be losing any sleep over their executions.

david1300
24th Jan 2015, 10:44
It's very sad and tragic for them and their families, specially seeing as they appear to be very remorseful and appear to now be models of rehabilitation and good-behaving prisoners. But sometimes, even though you atone as much as you can for your actions, you cannot be protected from the consequences of those actions. If you jump off a cliff the natural law of gravity will see to the consequences; and if convicted of drug smuggling in some countries their laws will play out to the inevitable consequences.

I wish it were not so in this case.

Clare Prop
24th Jan 2015, 10:53
Way too much news time being dedicated to these people.

I feel sorry for what they have put their families through but while not agreeing with the death penalty, I don't feel sorry for them. The other seven were probably just mules but these guys were the ring leaders and led the others into this mess. As has been mentioned it's not like the death penalty for smuggling drugs in Indonesia is a secret.

But I suppose the governments have to go through the motions.

Pinky the pilot
24th Jan 2015, 11:07
I won't be losing any sleep over their executions.

Neither will I. I lost an acquaintance to a heroin overdose over 30 years ago so have a particular dislike to drug traffickers.:mad:

I will also never forget the reaction from some sections of the Media in Australia to the hanging for drug trafficking of the Australian citizen in Malaysia a number of years ago.

The then Prime Minister John Howard was asked by some reporter if Parliament would have a minutes silence for the trafficker that morning, 'in respect.':rolleyes:

Cannot remember JHs exact reply but seem to think it was somewhat scathing!

And can 'older' ppruners remember the Barlow/Chambers case way back in the 80s which resulted in both of them getting the 'long drop?'

I worked with a bloke at the time who knew personally one of the accused and his comments re the case left you in absolutely no doubt.

He had no sympathy whatsoever.

PLovett
24th Jan 2015, 11:09
I really don't know why Indonesia executes people for taking drugs out of their country. Seems totally illogical. The Indonesian government also appears to have double standards on the death penalty as they are expending a good deal of diplomatic effort on behalf of some of their nationals who are on death row in the Middle East.

@Tankertrashnav, some states in the US do have death by firing squad as an option, according to Wiki:

Idaho banned execution by firing squad in a law which took effect on 1 July 2009.[58] This left Oklahoma as the only state left in the United States that utilizes this method of execution (and only as a secondary method). On 11 October 2011, Florida State Representative Brad Drake sponsored a bill to give Florida death row inmates the option of death by firing squad.[59]

Missouri is also considering the use of allowing death row inmates the option of death by firing squad.[60]

In January 2015, Wyoming passed legislature that would once again make death by firing squad a legal form of capital punishment in that state. Lawmakers noted the law as reasonable given the possibility that the drugs currently utilized in lethal injection have come under great scrutiny regarding their effectiveness and as such the availability of these medications has decreased.

Worrals in the wilds
24th Jan 2015, 11:22
What Clare said.
It's no big secret that Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore have the death penalty for drug trafficking; they have big signs up at the airports FFS and the penalties are well known in Australia. These guys were the ringleaders. If they had gotten away with it I doubt we would have seen the abject remorse and contrition that they've shown in the press; I suspect they would have been quite happy to take the cash and criminal notoriety.

FWIW, I haven't met anyone with much sympathy for these guys, though many Aussies (myself included) feel very sorry for their families. Abbott and Bishop have said the right political things, but it's an Indonesian matter. Aussies would be pretty hacked off if the Indon government criticised our law and order policies and I think the same applies in reverse. Personally I wouldn't support the death panalty for trafficking here, but if that's what Indonesians support (and they do) then it's their country, and these guys voluntarily travelled there with full knowledge of the risk. Unlike many drug mules they were not threatened or coerced. They took the punt on making a quick dollar, and they lost.

OverRun
24th Jan 2015, 12:03
Shoot straight. Repeatedly.

sitigeltfel
24th Jan 2015, 12:12
a slew of celebrities are pleading for their lives.

The disruption to their supply line must be upsetting.

radeng
24th Jan 2015, 13:15
Firing squad is messy and means that a number of organs won't be available for transplant. The Chinese bullet in the back of the neck is better - and cheaper, especially if the family has to pay for the bullet.

ian16th
24th Jan 2015, 13:56
It's no big secret that Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore have the death penalty for drug trafficking; they have big signs up at the airports FFS One other country with such signs at the airport, is Mauritius.

Something I wasn't aware of until I saw the sign in the arrivals hall.

Worrals in the wilds
24th Jan 2015, 14:06
I went to Indonesia as a teenager and I remember that the signs on arrival were confronting; big billboards. I hadn't really thought about the death penalty before that. That said, nor had I considered smuggling drugs so it wasn't really an issue. As an example;
http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/35125/wm/pd3422441.jpg

P6 Driver
24th Jan 2015, 15:03
Should the two sentences be carried out this weekend, does the thread have to be renamed?

airship
24th Jan 2015, 16:01
Pinky the pilot wrote concerning not losing any sleep: Neither will I. I lost an acquaintance to a heroin overdose over 30 years ago so have a particular dislike to drug traffickers. :mad:

So far as I'm aware, no politician, producer, distributor, smuggler or anyone else involved with tobacco has ever served any lengthy prison sentence, let alone warranted being executed for their activities. Yet it's a highly profitable activity. Contributes massively to taxes levied by governments. Kills in the millions with devastating affects to families, friends and even acquaintances... :}

It's not so much that I lose much sleep. But I do often stay awake a little longer at times pondering these and many other issues: whether my fellow-men can be rehabilitated; is it worth the effort; who's to blame, if anyone is etc.?

I can only speak for myself: I'll need at least several more life-times' worth of reflection before being able to come close to arriving at any real conclusions. Unlike many others here. Of course, it may simply be that I never like to be wrong. Or at least shown to be.

So I am quite sad when I think about these 2 Australian heroin-smugglers.

PS. It's always warm in Bali (or thereabouts) isn't it? So if or when they're brought before the firing-squad, any shivering would have to be put down to naked fear. Perhaps wondering how they might be welcomed by their own maker once it's all over, us having 'wiped our hands of the matter' in the manner of Pontius Pilate in the 1st place. But who is their maker, who is your's?

PPS. I do smoke too (literally and figuratively), I sometimes like to think...

Andy_S
24th Jan 2015, 16:29
I can only echo some of the above comments.

These people knew the risks. They knew the penalty. They went ahead regardless.

If you don't want to do the time, then don't do the crime.

air pig
24th Jan 2015, 17:06
Oh dear what a blow, how sad, never mind. They will not be smuggling any more drugs in the future.

Drug smugglers and dealers at lowest level life in return for information leading to conviction of those on the next rung of the ladder, 50 years hard labour without parole. Any trouble in prison leads to execution. Next level, same sentence to life without parole with same conditions, next level gets the rope, no mercy and if necessary all their family as well, in particular if they have not turned in information to the police and customs authorities.

Those who put themselves into the public eye including celebrities, politicians, sports people etc found using drugs, executed as an example.

airship
24th Jan 2015, 17:37
These people knew the risks. They knew the penalty. They went ahead regardless.

They probably did know about the (very serious) penalties for such offences in that part of the World. Though I doubt that they calculated any risks involved before going ahead, in any serious manner.

If you don't want to do the time, then don't do the crime.

A motorist exceeds the speed-limit.
A motorist exceeds the speed-limit. Crashes his car. Noone (else) is hurt.
A motorist exceeds the speed-limit. Crashes his car. Kills 2 others.

A drunk-driver.
A drunk-driver. Crashes his car. Noone (else) is hurt.
A drunk-driver. Crashes his car. Kills 2 others.

In the admittedly simplistic examples cited above, can (or should) a motorist or drunk-driver ever be (given the chance of) being rehabilitated? Are the manufacturers, dealers etc. of cars or alcoholic beverages usually prosecuted also? Are cars or alcohol banned in most places?

Perhaps you've never exceeded the speed-limit. Or at least been caught at it. Never ever smoked a joint. Never ever been given the opportunity of experiencing justice as it's dispensed in the real world...?! Bully for you! :hmm:

P6 Driver
24th Jan 2015, 20:29
I believe that prosecutions for some crimes other than drug smuggling do take place on occasion.


If I choose to break a law as you have outlined, it's with the knowledge that I might be caught and prosecuted. I choose not to drink & drive, I also choose not to smuggle illegal drugs into another country. Bully for us indeed - whatever that means!

rh200
24th Jan 2015, 20:47
My there are some simple views on punishment and law/ values.

For starters, dogooders such as celebrities etc. protesting and signing petitions will most likely only worsen their chances of a pardon.

The next bit is people comparing it to other crimes and things like smoking need to have a look at the exact reason particular cultures hate drugs so much. As such you need to understand why particular crimes we view as relatively moderate to benign, and they view as heinous, another case of white man dictating morality.

Those talking about how they have been rehabilitated, need to re-look at at crime punishment and a justice system again and understand the purpose of justice system and its various threads/streams, there is more than one reason we punish and incarcerate/execute.

At the end of the day if you don't like a countries values don't go there.

Dark Knight
24th Jan 2015, 23:35
Where is all the moral outrage being expressed for the people particlarly the Kids whose lives have been ruined or lost due to drugs including the drugs smuggled by the Bali Nine and others?

They knew the risks, they did the crime and hopefully will do the time as expediously as possible.

cattletruck
25th Jan 2015, 12:14
Walking past an old haunt today I had a flashback of an event that broke my heart which made me think about the circumstances of those of the Bali nine.

A long while back I befriended a waiter who was working at my mates restaurant. She was a very easy going happy-go-lucky redhead with the most perfect @rse ever to grace the surface of this planet. She was a young 22 y/o and in the stage of moving into adulthood. She worked a number of temporary jobs including working at a call centre so that she could live the life she wanted in a trendy inner suburb renting her own flat. I think she was on her own and never heard much about her parents and upbringing other than they used to own a house on an island (Phillip Island) and sold it before the ballistic property boom in Melbourne and ended up missing out. By her innocent nature she tended to wear her heart on her sleeve and was not wise to the world on a lot of things although she was always helping people.

Then one day she disappeared and to our shock we found out she was in goal.

The story goes there was a bloke in her block of flats that was pestering her to do him a favour and take a parcel from point A to point B. Eventually she wilted under the pressure and did the deed, but what she didn't know was that this guy was under police surveillance and in the parcel were drugs. She got 2 years but was releases after 18 months.

Some time later I bumped into her again as my mate was kind enough to give her her old job back, but she had changed, she had lost her vibrancy, warmth and spontaneity, she was very austere, frightened even, and the warmth that I knew was replaced with a vacuous emptiness.

It was really sad to see the new state of what she had become, all this because of a moment of youthful indiscretion.

She didn't last in the job and I never saw her again.

Stanwell
25th Jan 2015, 12:47
cattletruck,
Excellent post.
Just two words come to mind - 'Ohh, shit!'