View Full Version : Aviation SW on a more positive note
ASW students are to be offered the opportunity to continue their training with ex-ASW instructors at the Robin Flying Group (robin-flying-group.org) at Exeter.
Over the past ten years, the Robin Flying Group has evolved into a small high quality flying club with FBO type facilities including 6 aircraft, modern hangar, training facility, on-site maintenance etc and has many ex-ASW pilots among its members.
Contrary to some ill-informed posts, Exeter Airport is a superb environment to operate from being very GA-friendly nowadays, with reasonable fuel prices and landing fees to residents, plus helpful and accommodating management and ATC.
robin
24th Jan 2015, 09:03
How does that work? Is the group now setting itself up as a flight training organisation or just supplying the aircraft for the instructors?
Frontal
24th Jan 2015, 13:02
Excellent to see that something good is beginning to emerge from the mess at ASW.
From what I hear, the Robing flying group is a very well run outfit with a great collection of aircraft as well as modern facilities.
Whopity
24th Jan 2015, 18:27
ASW students are to be offered the opportunity to continue their training with ex-ASW instructors at the Robin Flying Group (robin-flying-group.org) at Exeter. All training for a licence or rating must be conducted at an ATO or existing RTF. This group is not listed as either and instructors cannot operate on their own!
150 Driver
24th Jan 2015, 18:42
However they structure it, legally of course !, good luck to them
Exeter is a great location to train from, the ASW instructors are good people who've been badly let down by their employer (to say the least)
Am pleased to hear of some good news
robin
24th Jan 2015, 19:28
Frontal
As I understand it the group has a rather cramped hangar, limited parking and a very small cabin, so hardly modern facilities.
I would think most students would prefer to be on the ASW site or move, as some have, to the busier and more professional school at Dunkeswell
Have you ever been there? What you say suggests not....
Should have added that DSF is an excellent organisation too and Dunkeswell a great place to visit (been there for lunch today!)
However EGTE offers airfield facilities unrivalled in the area, easy access by road and weather conditions frequently better than nearby airfields.
robin
24th Jan 2015, 20:08
DR40
Only flown into Exeter a couple of times as it is not at all welcoming to GA. Far too expensive.
Been to Dunkeswell many times as they are much friendlier with fewer restrictions.
Peter Gristwood
24th Jan 2015, 21:53
Contrary to some ill-informed posts, Exeter Airport is a superb environment to operate from being very GA-friendly nowadays, with reasonable fuel prices and landing fees to residents, plus helpful and accommodating management and ATC.
I agree with the friendly ATC bit, but landing fees for non-residents and opening hours make it difficult to visit. Even the last Exeter landing voucher required a fuel uplift - not needed when flying in from Dunkeswell.
My experience of Exeter is that they would like to be more GA friendly, but have never quite managed it for any number of reasons.
I have a little knowledge of Exeter and they seem to have no consistent view of where to go and what to do. Unless the airport management start to see the need for GA and stop getting in their way, then a club/school will always struggle whether it is on the north side or south side.
Frontal
25th Jan 2015, 05:32
I'm sure that any new organisation moving into the vacuum caused by the demise of ASW will enter into negotiations with the airport authorities to ensure the ongoing success and development of GA at Exeter.
On the occasions that I have flown into Exeter, I have found the ATC to be professional, accommodating and friendly.
N.HEALD
25th Jan 2015, 17:07
Having flown from Exeter for over 40 years I can with some certainty say it is a great GA airfield to fly from, decent runways good ATC and Nav Aids, it is an airfield that certainly deserves a good quality GA training establishment but equally it needs a flying club style setup to ensure that post PPL people have somewhere that encourages GA flying and is not solely concerned with punters paying for CPL/IR courses and then disappearing off to the airlines
The Robin flying group is a very well established group with some very tidy DR400's and if they were to get CAA approval to run training then it would certainly be a good way to fill the void that will be left if/when ASW bites the dust. There are some great instructors around at EGTE and on would hope that the get snapped up by whoever does fill the void.
Dunkeswell is a very friendly GA airfield and indeed I flew in there yesterday for lunch, it's only downside are ease to get to by car and lack of radio aids, with a FISO rather than full ATC. Being so high up on the hill the weather can also stop play at times when Exeter is still operational for GA. Very nice people at Dunkeswell and that counts for a heck of a lot.
Fingers crossed that something emerges from the shambles and that GA at Exeter ends up stronger and better than at present.
Whiskey Bravo
25th Jan 2015, 18:18
This is really excellent news for Exeter. One of the perpetual annoyances on these forums from the private flying community is that anywhere with a landing fee of more than 10 quid is 'not GA friendly'. The fact that the Robin Flying Group are able to exist in the format they do is proof that Exeter is not anti-GA. Their fees are also very reasonable for the facilities provided if you compare them to anything else on the South Coast.
The Robin Flying Group have some beautifully maintained aircraft which put the majority of flying club rubbish to shame, so I really wish them well in this endeavour! They also have a membership that can encourage people to remain in GA post PPL. A flying school does not need to be an expensive building and lots of expensive marketing, what it needs to be is quality instruction, well maintained aircraft and a friendly like minded community. :D
Exeter Aviation, operator of the Robin Flying Group, has been a Registered Training Facility since 2008.
It never sought to compete for ab-initio PPL training with ASW, who were doing a very adequate job in that field, but concentrated on more advanced training for its RFG members.
It is now in a position to be able to offer ex-ASW students continuity for their PPL training/associated ratings with ex-ASW instructors - immediately.
Airways Flight Training has always been the premier school at EGTE for on-going commercial training but has traditionally shown little enthusiasm for ab-initio PPL training.
Hopefully EA and AFT will now dovetail informally to provide the highest quality of training from ab-initio to CPL/IR at EGTE.
Steak&Kidney_Pie
25th Jan 2015, 19:09
Great news to hear. Let's hope the future for Aviation Training and GA at Exeter continues to be great.
150 Driver
25th Jan 2015, 20:24
I happen to like Exeter and did my IRR training there with the now convicted criminal.
Is it GA friendly ?
As to friendly, yes, at every level in my experience. Can you simply turn up, park next to the clubhouse and jump out for a coffee without high viz, no.
Is it Expensive ?
Like most PPL's I love the challenge of finding and flying into grass strips with - if you're lucky - A/G service. Typically these cost £10ish
But I equally love the experience of flying into larger airports with the need to be professional on the R/T, preferably making an instrument approach and mixing it with the Big Boys. Taxiing around Airbuses never fails to leave me in awe - if you have pax they will often be speechless.
If I want to do that I have to incrementally add in the long smooth tarmac, full radar ATC, fire and rescue service on standby, the Navaids available and put a price on each of those.
Do you need them ? Not all the time but when you do, you sure as heck do. And isn't it good to use them (Navaids even if not the fire service !) occasionally even when not needed to make sure you still can ?
So, decision time as you plan your trip, do you go to a Dunkeswell or do you go an Exeter. The experience will be different, so will the cost be. But I bet that they will both be friendly (It's the West Country after all !)
Good luck to the ex ASW instructors, hope this IMC has a silver lining.
Where are things now? Is ex ASW now on the Exeter Aviation site or in the ASW faciliities?
The ASW website isn't showing much information
N.HEALD
5th Feb 2015, 18:19
Robin, ASW is still in the building it has been for many years, flight briefing has been removed from the ASW building and relocated in what was the old Exeter Flying Club building in the good old days, and is now occupied by Executive Handling. My understanding from when I booked out recently is that this is a temporary location and an adjoining building will become a permanent flight briefing facility in due course.
ASW has been very quiet of late and sentencing is Friday 13th February so imagine something will pan out depending if a custodial sentence is given or not. General view among EGTE flyers is it will.
Thanks for that.
I'm a bit confused. Is ASW intending to continue or is Robin Group/ex-ASW setting up to replace ASW or work alongside?
I have friends who fly with ASW and they are unclear as to the future of their flying from Exeter
Frontal
6th Feb 2015, 06:02
Rumor has it that ASW will be closing down towards the end of Feb.
IMHO we are now possibly talking about a post ASW scenario, and it will be interesting to see what emerges from the mess left by the convicted criminal.
The Robin group seems like a very good option for future PPL training.
In the groups Robins or in ASW aircraft?
Frontal
7th Feb 2015, 07:10
I would presume in the groups Robins?
The ASW aircraft, although airworthy and fully compliant with all regulations were in need of a lot of cosmetic TLC as well as a good old fashioned clean.
I haven't come across any school that takes the time to provide "cosmetic TLC" to training aircraft.....
150 Driver
7th Feb 2015, 13:05
FWIW in my experience the ASW planes were maintained extremely well and very well equipped. The individual concerned was fastidious at making sure everything worked and was proud of the fleet.
That makes them fly well but doesn't win any prizes for being concourse condition.
I'm not sure there is enough money in flight training to do that !
Apologies if my original post starting this thread caused anyone any confusion! For clarification:
The Robin Flying Group is not connected to ASW in any way, shape or form - or "alongside" it. Nor is Exeter Aviation Ltd, the operator of the RFG, which has been an RTF since 2008.
Three of the Exeter Aviation/Robin Flying Group instructors have previously worked for ASW.
No ASW or ex-ASW aircraft are used or would realistically be likely to be used by Exeter Aviation/Robin Flying Group in any capacity.
Thanks for the clarification.
One question then. Is Exeter Aviation now advertising itself as a school/training facility for ab initio training and what are the rates?
In deference to what can, at best, be described as a lot of hurt feelings around what has happened at ASW, Exeter Aviation is not actively advertising itself as a school/training facility beyond what is already visible in various guides.
At present it is simply providing the facility for displaced students to continue their training - taking care not to constrain the freedom of operation currently enjoyed by Robin Flying Group Members and other training activities (Tailwheel, Night, IMC etc).
The aircraft being used are G-CEKO and G-OYIO and the rates as per normal RFG PPL use (robin-flying-group.org/costs), plus £30-40ph for the instructor, plus landings (under £10 each).
So, around £180-190/hr with one landing at Exeter.
Are you still asking for say £2k up front? Or is there a pay by hour option, given that the rule we tend to push is generally not to pay upfront?
robin - suggest you look at website to correct your mathematics
As one of the sons is studying at Exeter and keen to get his PPL I want to be really sure of costs (mainly as I'll be funding it) and this disclaimer is confusing
Please note: Costs and arrangements may vary from time to time. This page is intended to help to form a general picture of our group and is not to be construed as contractual in any way. '
I will watch, with interest, future developments