View Full Version : Vegans & Vegetarians - PSLBWNF ?

G&T ice n slice
18th Jan 2015, 16:55
I mean, why? Do they allow themselves leather shoes? Do they allow themselves to wear silk? How about a nice leather or sheepskin coat?

I mean, don't knock it, after all they die early, apparently, from malnutrition (or so Bertie Pollock's girlfriend says). So they don't hang around long enough to be a burden on society.

18th Jan 2015, 17:03
Methinks an evil troll is about. Has a vegan ever done anything to hurt you? Why should you care.

18th Jan 2015, 17:25
Daughter was a vegan for over 10 years so I have first hand experience of this and I can answer your questions

Do they allow themselves leather shoes? (no) Do they allow themselves to wear silk? (no) How about a nice leather or sheepskin coat? (no and no). If the answer was yes to any of your questions, then by definition they wouldnt be a vegan.

As regards vegetarianism, that seems to mean whatever the individual wants it to mean. I once knew a fellow student who claimed she was a vegetarian. Out for a meal with a group of us I saw her tucking into lobster and challenged her on her so-called vegetarianism. She replied that her rule was if she could stroke it she wouldnt eat it, so as she wouldnt stroke a lobster then she didnt mind eating it!

Incidentally daughter is no longer a vegan, so life is a lot simpler when she comes to stay, although she still doesnt eat meat or fish.

was gingernut
18th Jan 2015, 17:40
I've got a mate who's a vegan, he get's really shirty when people make an assumption that he is doing this for animal welfare. (He does it for health grounds and taste, and yes, I have told him).

He's great to go for a curry with, but a right Royal pain in the £rse if you go anywhere else with him.

Once tried to keep up with his diet, found I was grazing all the time, and had to take some omeprazole for hunger pains. :}

18th Jan 2015, 17:47
I have vegan friends. They say they won't eat anything that has a face. Fair enough, so I prepared a pasta dish, but it was fresh pasta, thus contained egg. An egg doesn't have a face until it hatches, but they couldn't eat it.

Other than that, it cause us no problems.

Friends of mine in CPT invited my then g/f, who was a vegetarian, for a braai .......... so when we got there they proudly announced that they knew she was vegetarian so they'd prepared chicken for her!

18th Jan 2015, 18:02
a chicken has the same IQ as a cauliflower and so is fair enough!

18th Jan 2015, 18:05
I know people who have the same IQ as a cauliflower but I wouldn't eat them. I might be insulting some of the smarter cauliflowers with that remark.

18th Jan 2015, 18:17
Vegans probably die early. Vegetarians probably die late. You can buy leather-free attire should you wish. But nobody will truly live life without killing something until we have the first colony on Mars.

18th Jan 2015, 18:35
G & T, what is PSLBWNF?

Shaggy Sheep Driver
18th Jan 2015, 18:41
When vegetarians come to visit, we ensure they are only offered vegetarian fare while we enjoy 'normal' nosh. When we omnivores visit them, we only get nut cutlets. Why can't they cater for our preferences as we do for theirs?

tony draper
18th Jan 2015, 18:48
Our digestive system was designed by a million years of evolution to handle anything the that walks crawls swims squirms or grows,like the Rat and the Pig we are omnivores,be thankful for our versatility.

18th Jan 2015, 20:08
Humans didn't get to the top of the food chain by eating leaves and berries :)

18th Jan 2015, 20:24
the same IQ as a cauliflower

Whilst I don't disagree with the statement, I'd like to know how you measure the IQ of a cauliflower.

18th Jan 2015, 20:25
Vegetarians are so intolerant, every time I take one to a restaurant I pick I have to listen to complaints about "the small choice of vegetarian options", we go to a restaurant they pick and I usually get asked to leave when I inquire about the carnivorous options.

tony draper
18th Jan 2015, 21:02
As someone once sagely put,vegetables is what food eats.

Ancient Mariner
18th Jan 2015, 21:11
Did 15 days without food, 20 g boiled water/hour. Was fine, but needed new jeans when I was dumped in Cape Town.
I still have the belt with the worn extra hole I had to make. Can't believe I was ever that slim. Then again, some 40 years ago.

tony draper
18th Jan 2015, 21:16
I believe a human being can go quite a spell without food but not long without water,seems a lorra folks walking our streets at the mo who could do with 20 days on just water.

18th Jan 2015, 21:39
Once tried to keep up with his diet, found I was grazing all the time, and had to take some omeprazole for hunger pains.

The stock image of a vegan is someone who looks as though they have just come out of a concentration camp, but in the 10 years she was a vegan my daughter (20s into 30s) steadily put on weight until she was frankly overweight. The problem was she never stopped eating, when she came to stay she would be forever going and making herself a snack, while Mrs TTN and I are very much 3 meals a day and nothing else, so it was quite noticeable. I think your experience may well be to do with the various things that are lacking in the vegan diet which cause the body to constantly seek more food to redress the balance. Anyway - sanity has prevailed, as I said and she is at least half way back to being an omnivore!

Btw was gingernut - why arent you gingernut any more? - I didn't notice you getting banned ;)

18th Jan 2015, 22:09
If we didn't eat cows and sheep there would be no cows or sheep. Would you like to be responsible for the death of these wonderful animals.

Yes I know, milk and wool, but the basic argument stands, these animals are only there because they are of use to us humans.

At least they are on this earth for a purpose, when we die we are just left to rot or burned - what a waste.

18th Jan 2015, 22:12
Aurochs and Mouflons? I think they'd do just fine.

19th Jan 2015, 04:28
If we're not supposed to eat animals, nature wouldn't have made them so tasty.

19th Jan 2015, 08:21
My ex used to say : You are what you eat - dead meat.
Yep, and cows eat what ..........?


People should like beef with no fat
People scoffing lots of beef will never fade

G&T ice n slice
19th Jan 2015, 08:53
I logged in and there was a new thread called " I do not agree with mocking the beliefs of anyone."

And I thought, flamin' vegans & vegetarians coming over here and ostentatiously and provocatively refusing to eat tasty animal products, demanding that us normal people should convert to vegetarianism.

Ha! it's about time we stood up to them and told them that 'when in Rome' etc etc (continued on page 94)

They're all so annoying... "oo is this really expensive top-of-the-range hand-baked cheesecake made with gelatin? eeuurgh yes it is! I can't eat that!"

They're all so inconsistent... "yes I can eat eggs!"... "eeurgh I can't eat eggs"... "yes of course I can eat fish!"... "eeurgh I can't eat fish"... "I can eat seafood!" "eeurgh seafood". They can't even agree on milk and milk-derived food products...

LGW Vulture
19th Jan 2015, 09:04
I've been vegetarian now for 23 years. I stopped eating meat after smelling a meat pie one day. Simple as that. I then stopped fish.

I happily barbecue meat and seafood for friends and family at home and don't try and push my "religion" on anyone.

I suggest some of you are hanging around with the wrong kind of veggie. :rolleyes:

19th Jan 2015, 09:10
I stopped eating meat after smelling a meat pie one day.I stopped eating meat after working in meat pie factory for one day! It was in my late teens, and here's the story!

My worst job ever was working in a meat pie factory in West London. I'd come back from a few weeks hiking around Spain, broke and too proud to go back to my parents. I needed money - fast, so I went to a placement agency whose jobs paid daily, rather than the normal weekly, as I simply couldn't have survived until the end of the week. The 'interview' consisted of writing my name on a piece of paper, in return for which I was fleeced of £5 (a lot in the 1970s) and given the address of a meat pie factory, uncomfortably close to the Notting Hill squat I was living in with the girlfriend who was the cause of my impecunious state.

The dingy doorway leading into a courtyard strewn with bloodstained cardboard boxes, reminiscent of something out of 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre' should have been a warning, but I was so desperate for a few shillings that I took no heed. A cursory 'medical exam' took all of three minutes, during which time I was asked to touch my toes without bending my knees, something I've never been able to do, and stand on tiptoe, which at least I was able to achieve. They may also have been relieved to observe that I was in possession of two arms, two legs, and a head. I recall the rather attractive lady who conducted this intense examination asking me: “What is somebody like you doing working in a place like this,” and my being too ashamed to answer. I am eternally grateful that my parents, who gave me one of the best educations money could buy, will never know about this sordid episode.

I passed the stringent medical exam, and was shown into a cavernous dimly lit hall, reeking of putrefying meat and unwashed human bodies, full of screeching conveyor belts and clanking machinery that could have come straight from a Heath Robinson book. Festering parts of long dead animals were thrown onto one end and somehow emerged at the other end as meat pies for the unsuspecting. My 'job' was to ensure that any spurious animal parts that risked falling off the conveyor belt were prodded back on again, using a filthy wooden stick. The conveyor belt frequently jammed and ground to a halt, usually with a stinking suppurating piece of carcass under my nose. Being mechanically minded and in possession of more than one brain cell, which seemed to be about the average for the other workers in that place, I saw the problem, a misaligned pulley, and moved to push it back into place. I was smartly rugby tackled by a woman about five times my size who held me down while another screamed at me that the 'unions' would 'all come out' (whatever that meant) if anyone else tried to fix the machinery. Most of the women there made the Fat Slags from Viz magazine look slim and attractive, and quite refined in comparison.

Whilst all this was going on a bell sounded and everyone disappeared like rats up a shithouse drainpipe for their lunch, the thought of which I found so repellent that I became vegetarian on the spot and remained so for several years. I stayed at the factory long enough to get my day’s pay, less than the fiver that the employment agency had taken from me, and considered myself fortunate the next day to find a job stamping brochures and making tea in a travel agency, which led to better things. In the fullness of time I started eating meat again too, but to this day, no meat pies!

19th Jan 2015, 09:54
Capetonian - sound advice. I have a chum who lives in Lancashire who sometimes comes down here to Cornwall on holiday. He once asked why pasties were so expensive in Cornwall (around £3), when he can buy one from a well-known chain of bakers famed for its pies for around a quid. I explained that whereas pasties in Cornwall were made of top grade beef (the cut known as "skirt" down here), the ones he was eating were probably made from the sort of stuff you described in your post. He wasn't convinced and continues to eat *****'s pasties, but that's his funeral!

Incidentally - there are no branches of said chain in Cornwall - I wonder why!

19th Jan 2015, 10:20
I stopped eating meat after working in meat pie factory for one day

A friend of mine got a student job in a meat pie factory. he said the meat was sort of squirted into the pastry cases in a huge machine. Naturally some of the 'contents' fell onto the floor. At the end of the day one of his jobs was to sweep all the fallings into a corner and then using a shovel put them back into the top of hopper of meat which would be used the next day. He said to me "some of that stuff could have been going round for days...."

Incidently as a young apprentice with the GPO I put some phones and a switchboard in at the factory of Pet Foods, Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire. The standard of cleanliness could not have been higher, the factory was absolutely immaculate. Comments were made by our lads comparing this place tinning animal food and packaging bird food to the greasy spoon kitchen where we usually had lunch, and the comparison wasn't favourable to the café.

joy ride
19th Jan 2015, 11:29
I really cannot see what the problem is here. People make different choices about what they like to drink, wear, drive, live in, read, watch, listen to, and frankly my dears, I don't give a damn and I don't see why anyone else should. Furthermore I don't want expect anyone to give a damn about my choices either.

(Within normal limits of Law, good citizenship, safety, political correctness etc., of course!)

Mel Effluent
19th Jan 2015, 11:31
I have vegan friends. They say they won't eat anything that has a face.
How do they feel about gingerbread men?

19th Jan 2015, 12:00
I know people who have the same IQ as a cauliflower but I wouldn't eat them.

Know what you mean, Cape, but there's this little barmaid in a bar not far from here . . . :E

19th Jan 2015, 14:44
Went to a dinner party a few months ago:-
1. Father is a celiac (spelling? allergic to gluten) and also teetotal
2. Daughter was a vegetarian (but would eat eggs and fish)
3. Son was a vegan
4. Son's friend was a "hyper vegan" - means he wouldn't eat anything from the nightshade family - spuds, tomatoes etc. (why??)
5. Friend's girlfriend was a vegetarian and claimed dairy intolerance
6. The Mother, myself and my wife are all "normal" omnivores

In total they provided something like 5 different meals to cater for everyone. The world's going mad i tell you.

19th Jan 2015, 14:50
Daughter was a vegetarian (but would eat eggs and fish)

See my remarks earlier on. "Vegetarian" is a meaningless word, or should I say means whatever the individual chooses it to mean.

Never heard of "hyper vegans" - weird. I'd rather never eat meat again than be deprived of spuds. Love them :ok:

19th Jan 2015, 14:55
She replied that her rule was if she could stroke it she wouldnt eat it...
How's she feel about oral.. Ahh let's not go there. :p

19th Jan 2015, 14:59
Never heard of "hyper vegans" - weird.
I hadn't until then - I think they were on some sort of competition of who was the most green, veggie, tree hugging, crusty, dreadlocked weirdo. It was a photo finish between the son and his mate.

19th Jan 2015, 15:06
In a drive thru with one of my students years ago and I asked him what he wanted.
He is a kind and gentle soul who quietly told me he was a vegetarian. He said "I do not eat meat I am a vegetarian".
I replied "That's ok,There is no meat in these burgers " :)

Solid Rust Twotter
19th Jan 2015, 17:26
Most of the vegetarians and vegans I run into are usually half in the bag ratfaced from topping up the vitamins and such with unfiltered and unpasteurised real ale. Apparently it beats taking all those supplements they require to prevent them melting or something.

Someone once told me we're not designed for a pure vegetable and grain diet due to the enamel on our teeth being of insufficient thickness to handle grinding it all down to a manageable consistency.

19th Jan 2015, 19:07
That may have been true in the past, but since Cro-Magnon man mastered fire and cooking it's not been such a problem.

A paleolithic diet would include some meat, but rather less than most people eat today. Hunter-Gatherers were more 'gatherers' than 'hunters'.

19th Jan 2015, 19:09
I read somewhere that "vegetarian" was an old term for "bad hunter"

19th Jan 2015, 19:12
I think that's very true. Rather like : "We're just platonic friends" means : "I tried but she wasn't interested......"

Solid Rust Twotter
19th Jan 2015, 19:22
That may have been true in the past, but since Cro-Magnon man mastered fire and cooking it's not been such a problem.

We evolved to eat a bit of everything, including meat. Lots of energy for less effort than scrabbling after roots and seeds.

We have Segways now. Who needs legs?

19th Jan 2015, 19:35
We have Segways now. Who needs legs?

We still do, as Segways ain't got no friggin' seats. :{

Solid Rust Twotter
20th Jan 2015, 06:48
Wrap yer willy around the upright a couple of times and tie a knot in it.

Tch! Do I have to think of everything?:rolleyes::}

22nd Jan 2015, 12:50
Take the test: how healthy really is your diet? - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11360677/Take-the-test-how-healthy-really-is-your-diet.html)

Espada III
22nd Jan 2015, 13:11
30 out of 42

22nd Jan 2015, 15:03
27 but I thought the quiz had some questions which required guesswork. What for example is a blueberry muffin? Is it something you get in MacDonalds? Also "how many portions of fish a week should a vegetarian eat?" None if they want to be called vegetarians, unless you know of a mackerel tree or a salmon plant!

Stupid quiz!

22nd Jan 2015, 15:30
I also got 27 out of 42 and thought it was a bit stupid for reasons as stated above, some of the things mentioned I've no idea what they are, as I don't eat them, or what they're made of. The opinions about how much water you should drink keep varying, and it's a function of many factors, and then 'you can eat as many eggs as you like' - I can't imagine that eating 30 eggs a day could be healthy.

22nd Jan 2015, 15:35
blueberry muffin is a bit of sponge cake with fruit in it.

Or a sexual act on a ginger.

Allan Lupton
22nd Jan 2015, 17:16
I'm quite proud of a low score for much the same reasons as Capetonian - to understand the questions you have to know about junk food takeaways and the current definition of coffee-shop coffee (coffee made with whole milk? not in my house it isn't), not to mention modern gimmicks like "five a day".
As a life-long vegetarian I cannot be expected to understand the meat-centred questions, but I did see that it wasn't "how many portions of fish a week should a vegetarian eat?" but "how many portions of fish a week should a non-vegetarian eat?"

22nd Jan 2015, 17:50
27/42 but the quiz is complete horsecrap. It presumes one would order some of the crap they ask about, like that whole latte excrement, and care. Each food has its own virtures, nutritionally, and its own down sides. For example, they crap on potatoes, but taters yield potassium, which for an old fart like me is important due to my problems with muscle cramps. (Mushroom are also a good source, see below about starches in general).
Eating a lot of red or processed meat can increase your risk of bowel cancer so it's best not to exceed 70g per day.
Red meat is not necessarily processed meat. More of the usual dishonesty there by the alleged "healthy eating" twits.

This among other "corrections" to my answers to some really stupid questions make be give this quiz a big thumbs down.

For a man my age no more than 1/4 of my calories should be starch. That's a max for me of 600 cal per day of carbs. The rest if protein and fats. They claim it should be a third. Great way to gain back the weight I lost? Listen to the idiots who wrote this quiz.

22nd Jan 2015, 17:55
Cape: Yes, you can eat as many eggs as you like. The myth that eggs are bad for you is just that, a myth. I think that's their point on that one.
I've eaten about a dozen per week, up to a dozen and a half per week, over the past six months and my cholesterol has gone DOWN. Why? Because my diet is varied, and has a lot of veg and fiber in it. Eggs and egg whites are a simple and not too expensive source of protein.
If you were to go on an all egg diet, you'd be shorting yourself some nutrients you don't get in an egg, and yes, a 2500 calories per day means about 30 eggs, but you might never have a bowel movement again.
Need a bit of fiber to keep it going, eh? :8

G&T ice n slice
22nd Jan 2015, 19:47
Eating a lot of red or processed meat ... best not to exceed 70g per day.

70g / day is ruffly 2.5 ounces which is a shade over 1/4 lb

Which ruffly translates into 1 rasher of bacon at breakfast, 1 wafer-thin ham slice in the lunchtime sarnie and2 small cubes of beef in yer supper stew.

At which point you either say ukkit and become a vegetarian or say ukkit and throw all that stupid advice in the trash where it belongs.

22nd Jan 2015, 20:15
14 out of 42. But there was a lot of items mentioned that I would have no idea what they are. Somehow I'm not too worried.

22nd Jan 2015, 22:54
70g / day is ruffly 2.5 ounces which is a shade over 1/4 lb

I know it's a long time ago but I'm sure we used to have 16 oz to the pound, which would make 1/4lb = 4oz.

22nd Jan 2015, 23:09
My brother who liked eggs as much as I do nevertheless severely rationed himself because of the nagging from his stupid partner who believed all the rubbish about cholestorol. For me, breakfast without eggs just isn't breakfast, so I guess I'm in the dozen and a half a week category and have been for years.

My cholesterol level is just fine!

22nd Jan 2015, 23:59
22/42 - some silly questions as others
said above. Half the grub I had no idea
what it was, and how the hell should I
know what sort of healthy diet bloody
vegetarians should eat? AFAIAC their
diets aint healthy - they lack iron and
a lot of 'em look sickly.

And what's with this '5 A DAY'?

23rd Jan 2015, 00:27
I got all the questions wrong about shop-bought prepared foods because I never eat shop-bought prepared foods. So, I fail the quiz because I apparently eat too healthily.

p.s. Just read an account of pioneer life in the 1860s in the Canadian West. The healthiest individuals, by far, were the ones who ate nothing but bison meat and salmon all winter. And water, and whisky. 5-A-Day my @rse. How does the Zero-A-Season diet grab you?

23rd Jan 2015, 00:35

23rd Jan 2015, 03:49
This has to be at least 4 of the 'five a day'.
To avoid excessive sugar intake, I won't eat the icing on top of the marzipan.

joy ride
23rd Jan 2015, 07:50
Fox3: Interesting point about "the healthiest" but perhaps they only lived for a relatively short time, too short for proper analysis! The healthiness (or otherwise) of a diet can only really be judged in the very long term. Even still it's vague and varies from person to person.

A BBC programme about 10 years ago stated that the classic French diet was probably far too rich and high in cholesterol, but that they seemed seemed to be healthy on it. The conclusion was that being integrated into a social group and taking time over meals with the social group was more significant than the ingredients.

I have never understood the idea that Dairy = Bad, we are MAMMALS, nourished by mammary glands!

I stopped that ridiculous test half way through as I almost never eat or drink anything it was talking about.

G&T ice n slice
23rd Jan 2015, 08:36
Quote: 70g / day is ruffly 2.5 ounces which is a shade over 1/4 lb

I know it's a long time ago but I'm sure we used to have 16 oz to the pound, which would make 1/4lb = 4oz.

The dog ate my homework.

The batteries in the calculator have died.

I've got that old version of MS-Excel that does wierd things with decimal places.

23rd Jan 2015, 09:01
Capetonian - now that is a real cake - forget your stupid little cup cakes which are all show and no substance. I assume it has plenty of booze in it as well (sherry for choice, in my case).

Marzipan - yum :ok:

joy ride
23rd Jan 2015, 09:16
I don't give a damn what the health nuts say, in my opinion the more booze the better the cake!

Flying Binghi
23rd Jan 2015, 09:38
via abdg #38:
That may have been true in the past, but since Cro-Magnon man mastered fire and cooking it's not been such a problem.

A paleolithic diet would include some meat, but rather less than most people eat today. Hunter-Gatherers were more 'gatherers' than 'hunters'.

...and yet the subject matter of all them old cave paintings is 'live' meat, war, and twot. Dont think there's any depictions of lettuce, tomatoes, potatoes etc..:hmm:


23rd Jan 2015, 09:50
FB, cave paintings recently found in Cuba have featured depictions of lettuce, but it is suspected that they were done under the influence of hallucinogenic substances as lettuces have only recently become available on the streets of Cuba, as I'm sure our correspondent from Havana will confirm.

Flying Binghi
23rd Jan 2015, 10:10
..."lettuce" :)

From a post i made a few years back:

...a while back i were on a vegytarian forum (for about 70 odd posts) and discovered the vegy girls lamenting the trouble with finding viril males. Apparently many vegy 'males' dont look at girls that much.... maybe its the estrogen content of the letuce..


23rd Jan 2015, 11:48

keyboard flier
23rd Jan 2015, 13:49
the vegy girls lamenting the trouble with finding viril males. Apparently many vegy 'males' dont look at girls that much

Perhaps it has something to do about not being sure about a girl who doesn't like eating meat!!

23rd Jan 2015, 16:40
Apparently in the mediaeval monasteries, rabbit was considered to be fish and so could be eaten in Lent and on Fridays.....

23rd Jan 2015, 16:49
The silly buggers won't have Worcester sauce because it has anchovies in it.

How can you live without Worcester sauce?


Allan Lupton
23rd Jan 2015, 16:49
Apparently in the mediaeval monasteries, rabbit was considered to be fish and so could be eaten in Lent and on Fridays....

Like the stationmaster in the Punch cartoon who said:
'Cats is "dogs" and Rabbits is "dogs" but this 'ere Tortoise his a "hinsect" -
so it travels free'

23rd Jan 2015, 20:08
How can you live without Worcester sauce?

One cannot.

23rd Jan 2015, 21:05

23rd Jan 2015, 21:27
G-CPTN, thank you for the old man and the sauce video.
Loved it. :ok:

23rd Jan 2015, 22:17
Very funny video, but whatever he's advertising its not the genuine article. That's made by Lea & Perrins - accept no substitutes!

Solid Rust Twotter
24th Jan 2015, 03:47
Burgess' Anchovy Sauce.

Although a bloke I know used to make a whisky based chili sauce called Buck's Bliksem that was really good.

Worcestershire sauce mixed in a ratio of 1/1 with malt vinegar works well on chips.

24th Jan 2015, 05:32
'live' meat, war, and twot.

Is there any other way to live? :)

Pinky the pilot
24th Jan 2015, 05:39
How can you live without Worcester sauce?

Beaten to it but Tankertrashnav nails it! Strictly Lea & Perrins.:ok:

Unfortunately most friends prefer Holbrooks.

Last time I was in Japan I went looking for a Worcester sauce and found some unknown variety. Label in Japanese of course but whatever brand it was turned out to be surprisingly good.

I'm taking a bottle of L & P with me this year though!

24th Jan 2015, 05:56
Beaten to it but Tankertrashnav nails it! Strictly Lea & Perrins.
When I was a boy, the old man told me that when he was a boy on working in mining camps, the management always had L&P, but the miners' mess only had Holbrooks.

We only ever had L&P at home.

24th Jan 2015, 10:26
Use L&P in huge quantities and buy litre bottles* from the 'cash and carry' rather than those pathetic little things you get in the shops (and the price is only twice as much for 4 or 5 times the quantity).

(* To be precise my local pub landlady gets it on her order for me. And there was the time when I asked for a big bottle and she got me a 4.5 litre jug of the stuff. She seemed surprised when I didn't complain and we used it in a year or so).