Howz Cougar Doing??

[coopervane]

Any input from you Cougar guys? Saw all three of yer bombers parked up at Stansted the other week.......have you got much work? Hope the Super can find a hole to fill.

I know if anyone can make it work then Keith Newnham can as he can sure stand up to the bureaucrats and red tape artists.

Personally I think the Super Twentyseven makes far better economic sense especially in the cargo game than those plastic 757s. Go on Keith ......make it work.........go and buy a load more.......there has never been a better time to pick up a low time well maintained machine from one of the big US boys.
Stuff the European airport noise winge......Stage three is the rules at the moment so lets operate within them until stage 4 comes out.

And all you 757 fans out there.......well its an awful lot more dosh and outlay for a plane that only carries two more bins......stick with the queen of the skies and she wont let yer down!

[Hogg]

Yeah very true coopervane, great machines.


Over to you the Quiet Cats ;) :p :p

[Cat-Club]

What's needed now is work for the pax a/c for the winter otherwise I can see a hole appearing in the side....... I hear though that Mr N is looking at converting it to VIP config, fitting aux tanks and offering it out in the biz jet market. Diverse idea, it may or may not work..... time will tell. Good move though to not get the 757.
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/felix3.gif

[Engineer]

Does the super 727 meet the requirements of stage 3.

Maybe if the rumour mentioned in

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55830[/URL]

has some truth it could be a blocker for this type of company

[Loadshifta]

Rumour has it that Newnham is laying off crews from the Super 727. The whole thing sounded a bit shoddy from the word go, and it looks as though they are going to take advantage of the current market situation and lay off crews until more work comes up.
Maybe DHL Air or ACL would be interested in you guys with your experience of the night freight business. Good luck.

[3000psi]

Hi loadshifta ,
Unfortunately you're right.......good guys have just been layed off this week !
got us worry......to say the least !!!
Our internal management crisis is not yet sorted and I' m affraid our front-line soldiers will pay the price.....as usual, whilst "generals" set up battle plan with the "beancounters" deep in confort of their smoky room ..... aviation is full of "Stalingrad" battle field !!!
with my hard hat ....on my way to the front line.

Cheers.:confused:

[Cat-Club]

loadshifta and 3000psi - If you knew the FULL and ACCURATE reasons behind the recent layoffs, then I think support for a company like this would return. You mention FRONT LINE SOLDIERS, well maybe have a deeper think and put 2 and 2 together to get your layoffs answer.

There is a market for a company such as Cougar, it has the potential, but while your so called Front Line Soldiers are battling against the General, then hope will soon dissappear.:rolleyes:

Discontent in the cockpit is one thing, look a bit closer to home to ACTUALLY see where discontent is.

[STAGE COACH DRIVER]

The whole thing is part of the devide and rule tactics played by the current ops director.People on different pay deals and conditions , sack a few people here and there keeps the staff worried for their jobs.Not a good state of affairs really!

[Engineer]

Sad to hear that not all is right at Cougar but are the layoffs a political or financial requirements. Maybe CC can provide the answers.

Hope it all comes good

:confused:

[Cat-Club]

My guess is that the current moves are for political AND financial reasons. However, it could be that someone can't add up when it comes to how many crews are ACTUALLY required to fly a line.

Time really to get down to the actual running of the airline and NOT worry about personal implications. Too many airlines arrive, survive and fail...... I don't think Cougar will be one to fail unless it's workforce start to work for Mr N and not against him.... mere unbiased opinions of course......
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/felix3.gif

[Continuous Ignition]

Best of luck to you guys at Cougar. I hope you all make it work.

I used to be in the employ of an airline here in the US that leased G-OPMN and G-BNNI for a while. Nice machines, just needed to be flown a lot.

Any chance any of you guys would have that B727 technical website that one of your very own FE's designed? One of you're Capt's sent it to me, but lost everything in a hard drive crash a while back...

Again, best wishes to all you Cat people..

[Cat-Club]

No TNT flying?? Well that is NOT the case at the moment. As for pay cuts, who knows ??

[Clarence Oveur]

There's a growing number of people in LGG that are less than impressed by the Cougar operation.

[Cat-Club]

Clarence - What, less impressed than any of the other operators flying for them??? The 727 is an ideal machine for their needs and unless you are very deep within the management structure of TNT, I'd say you were wrong.

[Clarence Oveur]

I am not talking about the machine. Although it appears to be only marginaly stage 3, hence those straight ahead departure requests instead of the normal turn at 4.3d.

[Cat-Club]

OK Clarence, you obviously have some sort of grudge against Cougar and the way it operates or just Cougar in general. How about spilling your beans and telling everyone what Cougar is doing that other TNT operators are not.

As for the Super27 being stage 3, it is fully stage 3 and yes there are some improvements to be made in terms of noise, which as far as I am aware, are being worked on by the necessary people.

[Engineer]

Just a small query if it is stage 3 compliance why does it need improvement and if improved what does this entail.

In response to CO comment does the aircraft have problems
maintaining noise retrictions?

[Hogg]

Well I hope that alls well in Cougar, got a good few friends there. About the climbing ahead thing, its probably because the aircraft aint approved for Rnav departures like our own 727s so we go straight ahead on vectors.

Anyway anything I know is staying with me. Nice company.

[JW411]

A cat-loving friend tells me that they never do derate take-offs and go at full chat all the time.

I know less than nothing about a Super 27 but if this is true then this practice does nothing for their "quiet" image.

[Clarence Oveur]

Could be why they request straight ahead to 7000'.
Or is it higher?. Nothing to do with RNAV departures since there are none in LGG.

[Hogg]

Dunno? ive never been to Liege so wasnt sure if Rnav Dept, just thought that was the reason for straight ahead. Maybe the boys of Cat-Club might know?

[Engineer]

JW411a

Could you expand on the reason why doing a derated take-off would benefit a quieter departure

[JW411]

Engineer:

I have already clearly stated that I know less than nothing about Super 27s. It may well be that you need full chat to get the thing off the ground for all I know.

All I know is that we always derate when it is at all possible (which it is 99% of the time) and it causes a hell of a lot less noise for the attenuators near to the runway to pick up.

Actually, a lot of noise violations are caused by some really p*ss-poor tracking by the crew after take-off and I have witnessed some amazing performances over the last 40-odd years.

PS. Please note that the callsign is JW411 and not JW411a.

[Engineer]

JW411

Got it right this time. The question was not type specific more in general. Thanks any way:)

[JW411]

Engineer:

My apologies; I thought you were asking a type-specific question and not a general one. Without getting myself into a nit-picking discussion about the finer points of Performance "A", perhaps I could give you a rather basic explanation of "derate" or "reduced thrust" take-offs?

It is often the case that an aircraft is not being operated to its absolute limit. For example, if the runway is much longer than that actually required or the load means that the aircraft is below its optimum weight for a given runway then a derate take-off is possible and allowed.

There are of course many other considerations such as obstacles and terrain considerations after take-off to be considered. We pilots consult performance tables called RTOGs (Regulated Take Off Graphs) and they will tell us for any given set of conditions exactly how much we can safely derate by.

From the noise point of view this is obviously desirable. A 10% reduction in take-off power would probably result in more than a 10% reduction in noise (but I'm only guessing).

On the debit side, the take-off run will obviously be longer and the aircraft will not climb quite so quickly. However, it is doing all of this whilst making a hell of a lot less noise! When it comes to the positioning of that particular airport's noise attenuators, it might not be quite so easy to make a choice.

For example, is it better to upset the people in the car park of Birchanger Services on the M11 or the entire populace of Bishops Stortford?

The other huge advantage of doing derate take-offs is that they are so much kinder on your engines. We should always be kind to them for you never know when you are really going to need them. Quite clearly, if you derated on every take-off versus going at full power on every take-off, it would not take rocket science to work out which engine is going to last the longest.

In fact, some engine manufacturers give credit for derate take-offs. When I flew DC-10s every single derate was faithfully entered in the tech log (even if it was just 1%) and due credit was given by GE.

I hope this is of use.

[STAGE COACH DRIVER]

I think I must suffer from blackouts as I can not remember ever doing anything than a std dep from LGG , yes we do do the turn at 4.3 miles as per sid. You are correct though we do not do reduced pwr t/o,s it has been found that this is the most effective way of keeping the noise down on our a/c.The a/c does meet full stage 3 but as you should know with a lot of stage 3 a/c it does not mean you can just blast off willy nilly and not ring the bells, you have to carry out a proceedure ,change of flap setting and cutback of pwr ot 1000aal. you must also be good at your sid tracking . So these are the areas where you can get improvement from.

[3000psi]

Hi Coach Driver !!!!
I couldn't agree more,,,,,those are the areas where we can get easy improvement.......stick to the SOP. :p

[rentaghost]

Cougar Leasing are planning to operate a 50 seat VIP passenger aircraft from April 2003 using a refurbished Super 27 B727/200 aircraft.

The plan is to remove the aircraft from service at the end of October 2002 and to give it a complete overhaul both inside and outside.

During the overhaul the interior will have a transformation by having 50 business class seats fitted each with facilities for the use of personal laptop computers, and individual DVD players will be available with a good selection of DVDs available from the onboard library. The will be a lounge with settees and tables plus a bar area, changing rooms each fitted with hand basins, and luxury toilets. Long-range fuel tanks will be installed
allowing the aircraft to operate non-stop across the Atlantic.

Outside there will be a new livery giving the whole aircraft the look of luxury.

[PaddyOpants]

New Livery are they mad..... the design of those super 727`s are selling the product for them they are the most eye catching aircraft in Europe at the moment probably the world.

Cat-club what are they going to put on the tail when the 737 arrives.

[Cat-Club]

Personally, I think the cat face would look better spread right across the tail and nbr 2 intake and the title "cougar along the forward fuselage but under the window line. As for another type - Mmmmmm who knows ?? :p

[3000psi]

Hi Paddy ,

What about "Pink Panther " ?!?!:p

Zee Inspecteuuuur Clouzeauuuuuu .

[coopervane]

Well seems u guys are hanging in there....as for the livery.....well seems fine to me unless you fancy a big meeeowwwwwww down the side. Heard some of you guys might be loaned out to ACL for a spell....any chance you could bring one of them hot ships with you...ours are like de tuned reliant robins.

So can you dispell the TNT contract rumour......I have heard TNT,s own 727,s have finished so they are either trucking the stuff or you guys are on overtime!

As for 737,s well got one too few engines and they are as common as muck....stick with the queen of the skies and dont go down that boring low cost operator route. Its a breath of fresh air to see someone doing it different and long may it continue. I bet you could keep your planes full with eager spotters just wanting to experience the thrill of a 0.88 cruise
and a speed brake like someone,s cut the wings off!

Talk Mr Newnham into doing a few airshow flypasts....it works for Atlantic and reminds the public of what a slick looking aircraft Mr Boeing used to make.

One last queery.....has November India been cut been up yet? Lady Patricia was a fine ship and deserves a better end.....how about turning her into a restraunt at Stansted!!

November Delta is featured in this months Airliners Mag in an Arkia Leasing article resplendent in the Sabre Livery.

Well good luck all you Cat Club members and keep yer chin up!

[Continuous Ignition]

Where would the lovely Lady P be these days?

She is/was machine.. I spent many a day riding her around the states when she was on short-term lease to my former employer.. She never let me down after our hanger crew worked her bugs out.. She just needed a can of 2380 from time to time.

As a matter of fact, I recall sharing a "moment" with one of our trolly dollys late one night in the aft lav on that fine aeromachine.. Nothing like a lil lovin at FL330.

Good ole G-BNNI

Ahhh, the memories..

[mutt]

Stage 3??????

I think that you might find that the cumulative delta noise difference between the hushkitted B727 certified limit and the Stage 3 limits is less than 1 dBa. There is also a certain logic to climbing a noisy aircraft on full power and the highest climb rate, it makes sense that an aircraft this noisy is doing so.

Mutt. :):)

[Engineer]

Mutt

Can you explain and corroborate the fact that the aircraft cannot meet the certification. Looking at the fact that the aircraft must have satisified regulatory requirements.

[mutt]

Engineer

I didn’t say that the aircraft cannot meet the certification. What I said was that the aircraft was within 1dBA of the certification limit based on the cumulative totals for takeoff, lateral and approach noise levels.

For comparison, a B747-100 is 3 dBA quieter than a hushkitted 727-100.

My data comes from having to establish with the DGAC a list of aircraft that we were permitted to operate into CDG at night. Neither of the two above are permitted regardless of the stage-3 certification.

If you want to show that your aircraft is different, give me the certified noise levels from the AFM.

Cheers

mutt

[Engineer]

Mutt

Point taken but it is my impression that the 727 operated is a 200series with 2 -217 and a -17A engine in the centre. Correct me if I am wrong. In this respect one would imagine that the aircraft noise certification would be better than that of a 74 100.

Looking for a good web site that can specify stage 3 requirement if any one knows one

[Cat O' Nine Tails]

Continuous Ignition

Lady Patricia is in London Southend in a very stripped state. Having over 1000 hours in her since I flew her in Dan Air and Sabre, I've seen her look much better.

You also wanted the web address of the unofficial boeing 727 web site.

http://www.boeing-727.com/

Coopervane[U]

What a novel idea turning the old girl into a restaurant! It is a shame that the BAA at Stansted charge so much for parking. I think by the time one has covered the overheads of parking catering and security the head price per meal would be circa £500.00 per head without the wine or stealing the crockery and cuttlery.

[coopervane]

Well if those meanies at Stansted cant accomodate Lady Paticia as a Cafe the there is always room in my back garden......Maybe those inspection dudes at Heaveylift can look again at the old girl and get her put back together...I have seen a lot worse 727,s flying around and a lot older too. Come on ....reverse the trend ....spend a few bob and get her flying again.........always was an aviation romantic rather than a bean counter.
I mean .......all you inovators at Cougar......and i am sure she would make a great SUPER....regards

[Cat O' Nine Tails]

It would take a magician to restore her to any semblance of her former glory especially "for a few bob" I've seen vultures leave more on a carcass after they have finished.
I personally am open minded about miracles, but on this occasion I would be inclined to recommend that you pay a visit to her at Southend and pay your last respects! I believe that she has even received her last rites! I will always try to remember her in either of her resplendent liveries (Dan-Air, Sun Country, or Sabre) cruising up where she belongs in excess of M .81

This is not to say that if enough individuals felt sorry enough for her that she could not be restored (at huge expense) for the sake of nostalgia. She would make a lovely corporate aircraft if someone wanted to give her a good home. Any takers? :D

[dkey1]

G-BNNI, Rest In Pieces, never to fly again chaps, not much left to rob off ;)

[Flightmech]

Just happened to have a quick look in the latest Airliner World and it has a story on Cougar sourcing an MD11F as early as 2003 & a 757-200 for the pax side!!! Now a mad-dog in the cat colours would be a fine site indeed.:)

[Cat O' Nine Tails]

I'm crossing everything as I type in anticipation that these will be one of the new types operated by Cougar. I suspect though that those cramped 734 will rear their ugly heads again....

Who knows, one can dream!!:D

[Nopax,thanx]

Keef's had experience of operating 75's before, hasn't he ? (Anglo Cargo)

Good luck to you all, anyway; let us know if you need any good people.............

:cool: ;) :D

[Flightmech]

Dont think KD has any operating experience of the 757F as such. He was line manager for FFV when Anglo flew the 757??? Nevertheless, i,m sure he,d make it work given the opportunity, but still like to see the "Cat MD11"!!!:)

[PaddyOpants]

?

[Off Blox]

So Mr N, as the title of the thread says, how IS Cougar doing? As an observer, I hear that many staff are VERY unhappy at recent developments. Think maybe a closer look is needed. People are'nt always what they appear to be on the surface.....:(

Make it survive Mr N, the potential for your company is huge if allowed to be....... otherwise :mad:

[Engineer]

Surely they could all ways call a meeting to discuss any issues?

[VIKING9]

Mmmmm but who would KN listen to ultimately ? :rolleyes:

[Cortez]

I heard that Joe Fossil is the main man at Cougar airways.

Rumours around TNT are that there are many redundancies forthcoming. The main selection criteria being if you are ex gill then your job is safe otherwise a free ticket to the employement agency awaits.

For the lucky ones you get:

1. basing in liege and a pay-cut
2. the opportunity to work for a comapny where morale is non existent
3. lies, deceit and tretchery are standard operating procedures
4. the need to look over your shoulder at every given moment
5. a nice sense of insecurity.

it must be a wonderful work environment.

Can any one confirm or deny this?

[Off Blox]

"Joe Fossil" - Mmmm from what I've heard this guy needs to go back where he came from - under the ground. Old tricks never die, this ain't the first time either. The downfall in the company started when he arrived - allegedly - and won't recover until he's gone. Some people can do a lot of damage by meandering, ducking and diving and lying to the boss. How long can this be allowed to go on. Any Cougarites care to comment? :D

[Cat O' Nine Tails]

You know what they say about rotten apples, eventually all the apples become rotten.

Question is, how far has the rot spread?
is it beyond redemption.... time will tell

[VIKING9]

Well, at least the ops staff will get to hear first hand what the hell is going on in the company - seems a meeting for them has been called tomorrow (13th though) - Mmmm unlucky for some that number......can things get any worse ? :confused:

[Cortez]

Do you think the management can be trusted to tell the truth?
I get the impression from rumours in LGG that crews are contemplating a walkout there is such ill feeling towards the company. I believe the indians to have no faith in their chiefs any more.

[doubleu-anker]

Is xxx "fatboy" xxx still there?

[VIKING9]

The Indians have no faith in their Chiefs anymore? "Anymore?" Mmmm think that faith went a long time ago. When will the boss actually realise his company is falling apart around him?

It's such a shame because a company like Cougar could make a good name for itself in certain markets. Why not shift the Super 27 down to Africa or the Middle East and start hauling cargo away from noise sensitive areas, get some more cash behind it then move forward rather than backwards as presently perceived. :( Why not get some serious marketing and sales tactics up and running. Someone should be out in the field selling the product. Why purely rely on a TNT contract, that won't survive for ever.

Better still, why not start listening to the people who care about the company and not just themselves and their pockets.......:rolleyes:

[BRISTOLRE]

Yes GF is still there heading up commercial matters and trying to promote. He is based in Blackpool.
:cool:

[Engineer]

May be it is set to go the same way as Gill went. If it did wonder if it would be possible to find a common link to these events?

May be Cat-Club would like to comment on these fast moving events or is that the nine lives have been used up ;)

[Bob Down]

Any info on the supposed meeting for the staff on the 13th?

[VIKING9]

Nothing new heard except what was already known except that Ops will be down sized in some form or another. Certain questions were asked but not answered directly. It could be that answers are actually NOT there just yet. Another announcement to follow by the end of August..... It doesn't look good though but we will wait and see with breath held (but not held for too long.....) ;)

No more passenger flying after October 31 unless something major happens. The future IS cargo, but then we already knew that as mentioned earlier. B737-300's early next year, which is a good move. The 727 is getting on and can't compete realistically in a cut throat market, so 737's can only be good news (if it happens). No mention of the MD11 though.

I hope this works that's all I can say........ :rolleyes:

[Max Pointers]

The mode of operation of most successful companies is:-
STRATEGY, PLANNING, COMMITMENT,and EXECUTION,
however it sounds as though the executions are taking place first at Cougar, and somebody needs Committing (to a funny farm), before the other two factors are lost completely.
Pity really because most small companies are usually great places to work, assuming of course all parties have the same goal in mind, but there seem to be separate factions here. Are some of them contractors just looking for a fast buck then jump off as the company folds that's what happened in my last company you do not get long term commitment from them they are always eyeing up the next bundle of cash.
Wake up Cougar
In the USA a COUGAR is also called a PUMA which might be more fitting:- PRETTY> UNUSUAL> MANAGEMENT> ATTITUDE> :confused:

[VIKING9]

Well said....... :rolleyes: I think waking up is not on the agenda though.....:confused:

[Max Pointers]

.............and beware the Fawlty Towers of John Cleese!!!

[VIKING9]

How can people remain positive when parasites are still lurking in the building..... the rot has set in and it will be very difficult to remove. But then all it takes is for the rot to be removed....:D

I've experienced office gossip and personality clashes in the past but not on this scale. This has turned into something very personal and it's ruined the good morale and high spirit that once was there.

[Cougar Knight]

Hi Max,

Im suprised the Fawlty Towers connection was spotted that quickly. Award yourself a gold STAR. :D

[Engineer]

Please message me if you are that person who has never lied. ( All be it a white lie ) or made a miscalculation, whether It be selling a fleet or aircraft because the number of engines was miscounted or you didnt realise that Cyprus was, in fact, more than two hours from London.Correct Cougar Knight but surely the idea is when you make that mistake you learn from it or the mistakes of other. But when you keep repeating the same types of errors then the penny must drop to those surrounding you that something is not quite right. Unless you surround yourself with people that have the same attitude and are easily manipulated.COUGAR has a wealth of experience, in all departments, waiting to be tapped and focusedShould this now read had and to focus these resources you need an effective management team or has the obvious been stated.

One interesting rumour that has been creeping through the grapevine alledgedly is that of backhanders in exchange of a training package deal or is this just malicious gossip, Anyone wish to comment ?

[happy-cappy]

Are Cougar down to one 727 now?

[VIKING9]

engineer I could tell you, but then I'd have to shoot you :D
Lets maybe just say that it's allegedly not a rumour......:o

There are still 3 B727's operating but the pax one will cease to exist at the end of October unless work can be found for it. I'm convinced there is work - wet or dry lease - on the other side of the pond but is there anyone actively seeking out this work?

I assume the Pan Am deal fell through :confused:

[Cortez]

Shiny new aircraft from Seattle or Toulouse would not make a difference. A trustworthy management structure would be far more important

When all the dust has settled and there are no more crews, prospective individuals should send their checks and credit cards to "Fossil Airlines" for consideration, no point in attaching a CV it counts for nothing!

Wanted: Good samaritan to "SAVE THE COUGAR" before it becomes extinct.

[VIKING9]

At this rate there won't be any good people left to even see the winter through, and by that I mean in the air and on the ground..... Maybe I should change my career path and become a geologist and seek out fossils. Wouldn't have to look far would I ?:D

On a serious note, what I said in my opening line and in previous threads still stands. The company is doomed if it carry's on allowing the so-called Flight management to get away with what it is proposing, doing and done. Like someone else once said, look at what happened to Gill Air. The same is happening again by the looks of it.

How many people will walk before being pushed ? :mad:

[Engineer]

Cortez and V9
Must be people in the know. So there is some truth in the alledged rumour that the use of back handers in xchange for training has gone on, and was someone suspended for commenting on this?

Also heard that a person was given notice and then spent several months at home on full pay being told that there was no flying available for them. Then contract people were paid to fly instead. If this is true then there must be some serious inherent management faults. Appears that the company champion Cat Club is quiet these days maybe they would like to comment or anyone on this matter

[Cat O' Nine Tails]

The rumour is not alleged but fact.

Witthout Prejudice

A captain was suspended after having informed the managing director of information pertaining to the allegations pending a meeting with Joe Forster the director of flight operations.

The captain refused to attend a meeting even though the captain was on standby until the content of the meeting and who would be in attendance were notified to the captain in writing. The flight operations director refused and suspended the captain from ground and flying duties until the meeting could be re-convened.
The captain was informed that this was NOT a disciplinary matter!

At the meeting the captain was asked several questions by the flight operations director pending what seemed to be a civil libel action.

After the meeting the captain was reinstated with the proviso that that captain not fly with another particular captain (even though they both enjoyed flying together) and also that the captain be rostered to fly in Liege as much as possible, much against that captains wishes. (If that is not abuse of power I don't know what is?)

If this were a company investigation then the Flight Operations Director should not be handling it, considering the allegations were made about himself.

Any one care to comment?

[parcelpuppy]

If you feel so agrieved XXXXX,why do you not just come off the fence and have the balls to sort this crap out once and for all,instead of hiding behind some annonymous forum.If you are innocent and you can PROVE that others are guilty then you have nothing to worry about.I suspect that like so many in aviation you talk a good fight but do not guts to admit any of your own failings,like removing ALL the no smoking signs from the offices or getting one of your mates to do it for you. I thought you were a decent bloke but you have handled this whole affair like a complete **** and you have lost so much respect because of it.

Dont have to be a brain surgeon to work out who I am!



These forums are annonimous, please unless the poster wants to identify him/her self keep names to ureself. Thanks. Hogg

[Cat O' Nine Tails]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know who I am since I freely admitted to reversing off the stand at BHX.

It is also neither a lack of balls that I haven't come off the fence to sort out the crap which you helped create.

With regard to the smoking signs I'm glad that is all you have to think about considering the state of morale in the company which has been in decline since the introduction of the northern alliance.

I personally thoroughly enjoyed the atmosphere prior to the changes brought about over time of our new leadeship, which you yourself seem to be a party to. I had a lot of faith in you when you helped sort out a captain being suspended in liege over a diversion once upon a time. I am sick an tired of the lies, fantasy and bull**** being bandied about with great impunity. I am not a political animal and never have been, but when i see what goes on it beggars belief. The term "I'm alright Jack!" seems to be the most appropriate to the new regime. I truly hope you are happy with the condition of the company which has been created by the selfishness of some.

As far as respect goes, at least I had it in the first place to lose!!

[VIKING9]

I must say, this really is a load of tosh. So called management posting threads like those seen on here. http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/flip.gif

When for christ sake will the boss wake up and sort this out. This damage is doing Cougar no good at all.

Engineer Oh yes indeed there is truth in what you say.

Mr xxx , put a stop to the downfall of your company - wake up and realise that your workforce wants your company to succeed

On a seperate note, 3 or 4 B737-300's next year would be nice but in the light of things, will it happen, will I see it, will I still be posting threads on here about the unhappiness within the NON SMOKING walls http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/bangin.gif

[VIKING9]

Huh - so we have to go somewhere else now do we http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/rant.gif

Is it possible that someone doesn't want the outside world knowing what is going on http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/teach.gif

[Engineer]

Cougar Knight

If you keep on top of the washing chores then what is hung on the line should be clean and only need ironing when dry.

The need for a private forum gives the impression that there is cause for concern at Cougar and the fact that the management style that has been described by Cortez and others needs to be kept hidden. Also may reflect that this open forum has given Cougar management a little concern that private dealings are no longer that. As of now in excess of 5000 hits on this topic.

It would appear Cougar Knight that you have taken over the Cougar mantle and shield form Cat Club, maybe that cat used up nine lives and yet to be seen is if your charge can maintain the challenge on behalf of the company.

So don't run for cover when the going get tough stand up and explain the rationale behind the decisions and deal with the accusations that have been pointed out.

[VIKING9]

Hey engineer I think you'll find that Cat-Club and Cougar Knight are most definately not the same. There is a hidden agenda here and it will be interesting to see what develops.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/Lurking.gif

[Max Pointers]

If the decline in comments about Cougar over the previous six pages of this thread are really indicative of the state of affairs there it begs the question, will cougar outlast another six pages?
It appears the Boss does not run the company!
Is this correct?
One name seems to crop up repeatedly as being the main problem, why is he still there?
I hate to see any company fail but it is usually due to market forces and/or competitors, Cougar though seems to be going in for a self destruct method!!!!!!:( :confused:

[VIKING9]

All said and done, I just want it to survive. It deserves to because there is a market for Cougar's type of operation.

Enough said I guess, I have more important things to worry about than people slagging each other off ;)

[CR2]

Ladies & Gents,
I've slowly had enough of moderating this thread. When my patience wears thin, I have the bad habit of hitting the delete button.
The next person who names names or calls another contributor a 4 letter word will be summarily banned.
Don't even bother with a "freedom of speech" reply to this; re-read the terms YOU agreed to when you signed up for PPRuNe.

[Eurotrash]

Well Well Well, ive never seen so much bickering. At least now I know where to send the Crayons I dont use. Wise Up Lads and get on with the business of moving freight.

[VIKING9]

Eurotrash you are quite right. Shifting cargo is more important than having a rave with each other. It's a shame that the PAX aircraft has to leave the fleet though, mind you there's more money in boxes than on seats......

Cougarites, make this work. The Cougar is a dying breed in the world of cats....... Get your heads down to making money for the boss and ultimately yourselves........:eek:

[Engineer]

Eurotrash

The freight is being moved and the use of crayons is a past time that you should continue to practice until you have managed to string a sentence together that is both constructive, pertaining to the subject and not derisory.

[Eurotrash]

Good to hear that Engineer . I had thought for a minute that with all the destructive comments and the Doom and Gloom attitude it wasnt happening.
All I can say is Anyone like some cheese with ure W(h)ining?

Keep c ol ou ri ng

Ciao

P.S. COUGARITES Dont listen to the whinging, just get on with ure job and make it work. The Whingers will only bring u down.

[VIKING9]

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/guin.gif

[MaxMet]

May I make a polite suggestion to all those that are unhappy with Cougar at the moment.



www.worktrain.gov.uk



Please let those of us that are getting on with things and who enjoy working for a very diiferent kind of Airline like Cougar do our jobs without all this childish back stabbing nonsense.


Safe flying for now and the future.



MM..

[Blacky]

Why Why Why hasn’t this thread died yet, I work for said company and I am ashamed to think that colleges can hide behind aliases and destroy my lively hood by dragging the company good name through the dirt. Please stop and let the 99% of us who are happy get on with our jobs. If you are unhappy then leave.

Ps… Viking9 or whichever of your umpteen aliases you are using today please don’t reply to this with any more of those stupid smiley things..

[VIKING9]

Why ? http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/huh.gif Oh and Blacky, an alias is not for me.... If you actually read my posts you'll see that I DO want things to improve, like as you say, the other 99%.....

Maybe this thread should just die, it's time for something else to talk about surely.... like the future !! :)

[Cortez]

It is apparant that you cannot be flight crew as good eyesight is mandatory. I would be inclined to believe that possibly 9% were happy with life at cougar but 99% Nah... i think not!!

BTW I presume you meant to say colleagues and not colleges!

As far as the original Cougar concept goes, it had fantastic possiblities when the prospect of ad-hoc passenger and freight operations, but could someone explain to me what is different operationally between cougar and any other freight operator. Are not Cougar operating to a handful of destinations exactly the same as the majority of other freight operators?

Cougar's main problem is lack of good leadership; fix that and the tide may turn for the better. If not, the name Cougar will surely become a distant memory which promised to deliver everything but in reality delivered nothing.

[Engineer]

Cortez

Look at the number of posts Blacky has contributed to this forum and one could conclude that the moniker used is in fact someone else who has all ready contributed to this thread. So advice would be to ignore the rants and raves of this ill informed person as with MaxMet who may be looking at the favourite website posted in one of his/her postings if they work for this leasing company in the near future. But not much cabin crew work on that web site

[rockon tommy]

Sorry! but I support BLACKY. After following this endless thread, I cant believe that Couger can be that bad. At the end of the day all an employee is entitled to is a cheque in the post for labour supplied.

[CR2]

Enough. if someone wants to start another thread along the lines of the first 3 or so pages, go ahead. 5 pages of having a go at each other is sufficient.