Philippines plane off runway as Pope departs

[ifonly]

BBC News - Philippines plane misses runway after Pope departs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30861907)

[phiggsbroadband]

This excursion happened in stormy weather after the Pope's visit to the Philippines.
BBC News - Philippines plane misses runway after Pope departs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30861907)

[Greenlights]

oh well....not surprising at all.
next!

[Romeo E.T.]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7h7ascCIAEQ3r6.jpg

[ACMS]

1/ heavy rain
2/ non grooved runways
3/ Pilots determined to land

= trouble

[RF4]

1/ heavy rain
2/ non grooved runways
3/ Pilots determined to land

= trouble

BBc report claims that it was an attempted takeoff. ..... But they also claim it was an overshoot. Well, at least we can see that it is deep in the rhubarb.

[deefer dog]

At the time when the BBC video was filmed the aircraft appears to be pointing almost directly downwind.

[barit1]

X-wind takeoff - ?
Plane veers off runway before takeoff at Tacloban airport after Pope leaves | News | GMA News Online (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/407939/news/regions/plane-veers-off-runway-before-takeoff-at-tacloban-airport-after-pope-leaves)

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm just down the way from Tacloban, on an island in Surigao del Norte, and we are in something of a storm at the moment although nothing to get exited about.

[Methersgate]

The Pope had cut short his visit to Leyte on the advice of the pilots of the plane carrying him; they had expressed concerns about taking off due to the increasing wind. This was a chartered aircraft carrying Government officials - crosswind take off.

[mickjoebill]

A plane carrying politicians leaves the runway at Tacloban in poor weather.
The precceeding flight a few minutes earlier was "Vatican One".

Looks like it was a good call by the pope's pilot to demand(?) the pontif curtail his visit to the Phillipines and leave early due to worsening weather.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/popes-entourage-plane-blown-off-runway-minutes-after-pontiffs-aircraft-takes-off-safely-in-philippines-9985269.html

http://youtu.be/Ctzm_VlwW_U

[evansb]

The predictable media with their knee-jerk cliché "...a small passenger plane..." Yes, one that weighs around 45 tons at take-off..

Notice on the video Crash Fire Rescue crew are spraying chem on the port wing. Post incident fire? Fuel leak?...or an over reaction?

[Capn Bloggs]

Yes, one that weighs around 45 tons at take-off..
Delusions of grandeur...still only a oversized nearjet. :)

Looking at the wind, must have done a 180 in the grass. Would've been an interesting ride...

[No Fly Zone]

The 'Press' cannot even decide whether this plane was taking off or landing. How can we believe the rest of their reports? :{:sad:

[ecureilx]

Operated by SMC, is what the media says ...

the Pope's 320 had the call sign Shepherd One !!!

None of them in the skidded jet were of Pope's entourage .. they were govt officials tailing the Pope's 320 !

[CISTRS]

As stated above by mickjoebill (http://www.pprune.org/members/78993-mickjoebill):

A very professional and difficult call by the pilot of the Pope's aircraft, and sensibly accepted by His Holiness.

[ecureilx]

This picture in Dailymail shows something else went wrong .. post skidding or pre-skidding ??

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/17/24C644F900000578-2914365-image-a-98_1421484820347.jpg

the caption in Dailymail says "a boy and .. a police man look .. " or something like that

Now only if DM knows the "BOY" looks like a Asian sized MAN !!!

[Above The Clouds]

Looks like a port winglet, would explain the foam being applied to the port wing on youtube due to fuel pouring out. Are there any reports of a runway incursion and impact with something causing it to detach ? that may also explain the report from the pax that a loud bang was heard.

[CL300]

CISTRS As stated above by mickjoebill:

A very professional and difficult call by the pilot of the Pope's aircraft, and sensibly accepted by His Holiness.


Commander is god no ? Sense of hierarchy then :):):)

[Jet Jockey A4]

Do we have the METAR at the time of the crash?

I would like to know in what conditions they made the takeoff.

[caiman27]

The soldier in the photo does not appear to be local - hired-in help?

[slatch]

Been almost a month since this accident. Not much information about what happened. Has anybody been to Tacloban and seen whats happened to the aircraft? Hard to believe it could be fixed there with no hangers, etc.

No METAR data available for after 11am. Accident happened approx 13:45.
Earlier METAR shows rising wind speed and dropping BARO. Previous METAR showed a steady wind direction of 270. Wind at 11am 16 mph rising steady at 5 mph per hour.

Tacloban has one runway 18/36, 2138m, 45m.

Seeing the Global 5000 has some rather low takeoff crosswind numbers ( in my opinion )for a 100K lb MTOW aircraft, Dry/Wet 29 / Fair/Medium 20 / Poor 10. It was only a 1 hour flight at best, so probably fairly light.

Popes aircraft departed early because of deteriorating weather.

The runway is in poor shape (information from pilots flying there).

It was reportedly taking off runway 18.

It reportedly ends up on the east side of the runway nose pointing approx 020 degrees. Left MLG collapsed, NLG collapsed, left wing tip torn off. So it did about a 160 degree turn.

So what do people think? Excessive crosswind component? Poor runway and the LMLG hits a hole and spins/collapses. Big wind gust at the worst time? The left wing tip got torn off, the right wing must have been pretty high.

Seeing how little information the CAA gives out on previous accidents I would not hold my breath until a report is released.

See this two year old accident with no answers....at least that I can find...

www.pprune.org/tech-log/518496-bae146-200-operations-iao-rpns.html

[Jet Jockey A4]

Without actual runway and weather conditions, especially the wind information it is hard to say what happened.

The Global is not a bad aircraft to takeoff with in cross winds. Just keep the proper amount of ailerons into the wind and keep them there after liftoff.

If the winds exceed 20kts 90 degree cross wind component, then you must apply the cross wind takeoff procedure which means the N1s cannot be accelerated beyond 66% until an airspeed indication (longer takeoff roll).

This is an engine limitation and not an airframe limitation so no "handling" issues with the aircraft.

The only other thing I can think of besides an unknown failure that would affect controllability is the pilot clipped a wing on the ground at or after the initial rotation.

[slatch]

Thanks for the info. Not a Global guy, G types and early lears. A friend knows the pilots of the Popes plane but they wont discuss the conditions. But if they were out of limits (also) why would they. Probably government officials to important to be delayed......well San Miguel can afford a new jet.

[JammedStab]

http://www.caap.gov.ph/images/aaiib/2015acc/RP-C9363.pdf

[bcgallacher]

I worked in the Philippines for 4 years of an over 40 year career in aviation. In that 4 years I witnessed more accidents both fatal and non fatal than in all the other years combined.

[ksjc]

Globals have a history of wing strike during crosswind landing and proper technique is harped on during every recurrent session I've been to. Wing sweep angle is large and at high pitch wing tip is very close to the runway. Take off in strong crosswind equally dodgy. Sounds like this is what got them.

[FLEXJET]

I was told during a recurrent that the PF used the tiller instead of the rudder during the take-off roll.
Can anyone confirm this?

[Jet Jockey A4]

@ Flexjet... I was told during a recurrent that the PF used the tiller instead of the rudder during the take-off roll.
Can anyone confirm this?

Nonsense... Use the rudder only. If he used the tiller then it is against Bombardier policy.

Over 90% of wing strikes on the Global are the downwind wing!

People tend to flare it with way too high of a nose attitude and this is where you'll get into trouble in a crosswind.

Keep an extra 5 knots on the airspeed to have a lower nose attitude and don't try to grease it on like some like to do in strong crosswind and you won't get into trouble.

[galaxy flyer]

FlexJet,

That's true, used all tiller during the take-off roll, as it got "light" on the nose gear nearing rotate, the steering became ineffective and it weathercocked into the strong crosswind. The report is out somewhere.

GF

[Jet Jockey A4]

@ galaxy flyer...

FlexJet,

That's true, used all tiller during the take-off roll, as it got "light" on the nose gear nearing rotate, the steering became ineffective and it weathercocked into the strong crosswind. The report is out somewhere.

GF

If true, that was bad pilot technic.

[galaxy flyer]

It is true, there is a formal report released and briefed. The pilots hadn't been to a recurrent in years, also in the report.

GF