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oldchina
16th Jan 2015, 09:44
BBC News - Lost Beagle2 probe found 'intact' on Mars (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30784886)

tony draper
16th Jan 2015, 10:23
Probably just needs to be switched off and switched on again then.
:rolleyes:

OFSO
16th Jan 2015, 10:39
Until the year 2000 something like 80% of the missions to Mars (no matter who sent them) failed. Completely atypical compared to missions to other planets which nearly always succeeded.

Obviously in 2000 the inhabitants of the planet stopped bothering (or perhaps left) because after that date we've had a 100% success rate.

joy ride
16th Jan 2015, 10:44
SO close, such a shame it did not open properly, my hat's off to Pillinger and his team!

TURIN
16th Jan 2015, 10:49
Damn shame he didn't live to see it. He got slated by the press (and many on here I should add).

oldchina
16th Jan 2015, 11:08
Get Rover to go take a look

RJM
16th Jan 2015, 11:10
blamed the failure on a mix of poor management and inadequate testing of systems and components

They could be talking about the Triumph Stag.

TURIN
16th Jan 2015, 11:22
In this design there was reverse redundancy. Any one failure kills the entire mission.

Are any atmospheric re-entry capsules any different?

onetrack
16th Jan 2015, 11:54
Martian 1 to Martian 2; "WTF is this, that's fallen out of the sky?? I'm really curious now! - let's see what it's made out of! ... " (produces large hammer and commences to bash large chunks off Beagle2 .....)

david1300
16th Jan 2015, 12:00
Get Rover to go take a look

:D:D:D and this to lengthen to 10 characters

OFSO
16th Jan 2015, 12:48
Putting a deployable solar panel where it blocked the antenna if it didn't was amazingly poor design.


Still, one thinks of a recent 747 gear retraction incident.....if it can happen, sooner or later it will.

oldchina
16th Jan 2015, 13:45
The *eagle has landed

G-CPTN
16th Jan 2015, 13:47
Will they now mount a maintenance mission to Mars?

MRO's data confirms that Beagle landed just 5km from the centre of its targeted touchdown zone.

So, why has it taken 11 years to find it?

OFSO
16th Jan 2015, 14:05
So, why has it taken 11 years to find it?

Waiting for an orbiter with a hi-res camera. ESA's Mars Express doesn't have one.

Just a thought: wonder what the weight & cost penalty of putting a [email protected] corner-cube reflector on the Beagle would have been ?

TURIN
16th Jan 2015, 15:26
TURIN

Yes, for example the three chutes on Orion.

I was thinking more of the heat shield. I presume Orion only has one. :eek:

mikedreamer787
16th Jan 2015, 15:32
:D:D:D and this to lengthen to 10 characters

You can do it this way Mr 1300 -

mikedreamer787
16th Jan 2015, 15:33
:D:D:D..............

mikedreamer787
16th Jan 2015, 15:33
;)...............

KenV
16th Jan 2015, 15:51
Yes, for example the three chutes on Orion.


With the exception of the Shuttle, every re-entry vehicle depends on a single heat shield. And Soyuz depends on a single recovery chute. And Orion depends on a single drogue chute.

evansb
16th Jan 2015, 16:17
Mars Rover?
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/10-11-12-mars-inside.jpghttp://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/1950rover.jpg

glad rag
16th Jan 2015, 17:12
Well I'll be raising a glass to Pillinger tonight, he was censured by the ESA report and despite his airy optimism I have no doubt it hit hard, unfairly so IMO.

ShyTorque
16th Jan 2015, 17:21
What's worrying is that someone's nicked the battery.

TURIN
16th Jan 2015, 17:51
TURIN and KenV

I think you need to read the report referenced in the OP.

Read it. Not sure what you're getting at.

Bandoleer
16th Jan 2015, 21:01
Outstanding.

TURIN
16th Jan 2015, 21:52
henry, yes I see what you are getting at. I was commenting earlier about the heatshield. Is this not the same? Any one failure etc.

What's FMEA?

Cpt_Pugwash
16th Jan 2015, 21:54
Turin

FMEA - Failure Modes and Effects Analysis

G-CPTN
16th Jan 2015, 22:58
Yes - my Kepner Tregoe Problem Solving and Decision Making training back in the late 1960s taught me to analyse and consider 'contingencies' through potential problem analysis.

The probability of a failure has to be considered together with the importance or severity of the effect.

megan
17th Jan 2015, 01:33
A piece of meat (or bone) always has our Beagle leaping into action. Have they tried it here?

John Eacott
17th Jan 2015, 02:43
t2F1rFmyQmY

sitigeltfel
17th Jan 2015, 08:20
A Beagle? Judging by the photos, it looks more like Mickey Mouse!

tony draper
17th Jan 2015, 09:10
Its astonishing to think the first man made object to reach another body in the solar system was fifty six years ago. :uhoh:
14 September 1959
On this day in history: First man-made object to reach the Moon, 1959
http://modernhistorian.********.co.uk/2008/09/on-this-day-in-history-first-man-made.html
oops it doesn't want to be displayed,
I remember listening with great interest ont wireless about Luna 2,one was a bit of a space cadet then.:)

OFSO
17th Jan 2015, 13:10
Curious failures - I remember years ago, either on OTS or the first ECS, both three-axis-stablised spacecraft, one solar array failed to turn and track the sun. The cure was to command the motor back and forth until suddenly it freed. Cause never known but was thought to be a small particle of ice in the gearbox, or possible a small piece of debris* which had caught in the gear assembly and eventually became crunched up.

* Debris ? In something assembled in a clean room ? Who knows.

Regarding the failure mode of the Beagle spacecraft: amazing. Very poor design, having three solar panels needing sequencing before the dish was uncovered. I remember another spacecraft where incomplete deployment of a solar array caused a reduction in power as part of the array was shadowed by the main body of the spacecraft. An attitude manoeuvre placed the spacecraft in a compromise position where enough power was generated to force the array into place. But where the comms equipment is masked, the Flight Control Team might was well pack up and go home.

Windy Militant
17th Jan 2015, 16:00
Before there are too many scathing remarks about the design of the Beagle probe, remember that it was built with grudging official support and Colin Pillinger worked extremely hard to get additional funding from the private sector. It had to be shoe horned onto the Mars Express and was assembled under very tight weight and time constraints. Professor Pillinger himself admitted that there were many compromises made during the project to get ready for the launch window.
But despite this it became the first European probe to land on another Planet.
It's unfortunate the Prof. didn't get to see just how close they came.

Easy enough to say "you shouldn't have done it like that" but how many of us have landed a probe on Mars!

OFSO
17th Jan 2015, 17:21
Two amusing cock-ups conducted by what was then the world's largest Space Agency (just to show anyone can and does make mistakes.)

A spacecraft was launched with the usual telecommand facility to disconnect the receiver/transmitter from the power supplies. This was a once-only command to be used to silence the spacecraft at the end of its life in the event it could not be de-orbited, to prevent radio clutter. However the telecommand was only two digits different from another telecommand which was transmitted daily...and within 48 hours of being placed in orbit, some hapless spacecraft controller transmitted the wrong command and reduced the spacecraft to orbiting junk.

Another spacecraft which had been launched went silent a month after being placed in orbit. The Agency was being extremely cagey about the cause but some of our guys who were friendly with their guys prised the reason out of them, which was that an incorrect size of fuse inserted between the solar panels and the main distribution bus had blown, and that Heads would Roll, since the designers should have been able to calculate the maximum current to be supplied by the solar cells and fitted bigger fuses. What we all wondered (but didn't ask - diplomacy, you see) was why use fuses (not resettable contact breakers but fuses) in an unmanned inaccessable spacecraft anyway....

Both stories are true.

tony draper
17th Jan 2015, 17:35
Then of course there was the feckup with Lens thing for the flying telescope who's name escapes me at the mo.
:uhoh:

Windy Militant
17th Jan 2015, 17:52
That would be the Hubble Telescope Mr D.

Which was the Mars probe where they mixed up Miles and Kilometres in The Nav software and sent the thing thousands of miles off course?

airship
17th Jan 2015, 18:01
And could someone here remind everyone else just how much this scientific endeavour which has since taken-on almost grotesque cartoon-like dimensions actually cost the UK (or other) tax-payer?!

PS. Don't beagles (the hunting dog variety anyway), work best when sent out in 'packs' and able to support each other on the ground? The mission was doomed to failure from the outset IMHO. The RSPCIO (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Inanimate Objects) should take 'em to court forthwith.

PPS. If the scientists want us all to continue supporting their projects, a first step would be to share the photos with the general taxpayer and public instead of hoarding them (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30859411)... :rolleyes:

OFSO
17th Jan 2015, 19:15
Share photos with the public ? Mein Gott, do you realise what would happen if Johnny Public actually realised what is out there ?

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/ROBIN_100/wiltall_und_menschheit.gif

airship
17th Jan 2015, 19:43
Hush-puppy OFSO, do not pique the interests of the dog-servants! Here is a sketch of a rudimentary inter-planetry scanning device designed by an unknown pudicat about 3,500 years ago in Egypt:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/CT_US4115698_Fig1.jpg

Such CAT-scanning devices are widely-used today in our hospitals. My own pudicats sometimes titillate me by encouraging me to offer them another titbit: "Gimme another morsel and I might, just might, tell you how to squeeze the whole Universe into a MRI device...or maybe not".

airship
17th Jan 2015, 20:19
I wonder if said sunken vessel had not originally departed from the (101) Dalmation islands further up north in the Adriatic sea...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Prunella_Fitzgerald_de_Puech_Barrayre.jpg

Woof, woof, woof! That's just one of my dog impressions.

OFSO
18th Jan 2015, 08:26
Well, Mr Crun (et al) if you want proof of time travel, there it is. There is no way the Antikythera mechanism could have been constructed 205 years before Christ. Looking at the design it reminds me of mechanical gun sights / plotting computers used in WW-II and I suggest therefore it was made around 1940-1950. However, they didn't have time travel then, so I suggest someone has come back from our own far future, stopped off in the 1940's for enough time to make this device, and then taken it back to 205BC and either accidently or deliberately (more likely) dropped it over the side of whatever device he was travelling in. Probably to fool us all.

However, we are not fooled, here on JB we have solved the mystery. (as we always do).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

tony draper
18th Jan 2015, 08:38
Personally I think the Antikythera thing was lost overboard from a ship in the seventeenth century it sank and just happened to land among the wreck of a ship that had sunk many centuries before.
:)