Military Flights and FR24

[Airbanda]

Noticed recently a few RAF flights showing on FR24.

Monday's were (A) c/s Northolt xx a 146 of 32 Squadron and (B) a Hercules. The 146's tag included the airframe number. The latter came directly overhead and was clearly audible but couldn't see it due 8/8 cloud.

Just now had c/s C30J, another Hercules tracking east towards DTY at FL100. In fact there were 2 in line astern. Subsequent track shows them unsurprisingly as inbound to Brize.

Has there been a change?

[TOWTEAMBASE]

I've seen a Swiss F16 sqwarking 7700 last week, 2 USAF hercs into Mildenhall too. It's been picking up the civy reg Airtanker for a while so I concur with you sightings. Would be good to get a military version but that's doubtful

:)

[DaveReidUK]

How it works - Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! (http://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works)

[Evanelpus]

Just now had c/s C30J, another Hercules tracking east towards DTY at FL100. In fact there were 2 in line astern. Subsequent track shows them unsurprisingly as inbound to Brize.

Was 'the two in line astern' via Mark 1 eyeball?

[Airbanda]

Was 'the two in line astern' via Mark 1 eyeball?


Yes, it was gin clear here earlier on. A milky haze spreading over now.

[Evanelpus]

Just now had c/s C30J, another Hercules tracking east towards DTY at FL100

The reason I asked was because I saw this the other day as well, exactly the same disgnator and flight level and it was heading from East Anglia way over towards the Brize direction.

[Airbanda]

@DaveReid

I understand how it works.

That link incidentally is getting out of date. A number of the Common aircraft models that usually do not have an ADS-B transponder increasingly do. FlyBe's Dash 8s being a case in point.

Transports inbound to Brize and previously Lyneham are near daily flyovers here, just west of Northampton, and have been for years. Presumably they're on something analagous to a STAR.

I'd not noticed them, or the 32Sq flights, on it until this week.

[DaveReidUK]

I understand how it works.OK, then you will have worked out that, in all probability, the increasing numbers of military transport aircraft showing on FR24 are the result of the growth of their MLat network which allows the positions of non-ADS-B aircraft to be plotted.

That said, more USAF aircraft (some KC-10 Extenders, for example) are starting to get ADS-B fitted and so will now be visible without needing the use of multilateration.

[750XL]

OK, then you will have worked out that, in all probability, the increasing numbers of military transport aircraft showing on FR24 are the result of the growth of their MLat network which allows the positions of non-ADS-B aircraft to be plotted.

That said, more USAF aircraft (some KC-10 Extenders, for example) are starting to get ADS-B fitted and so will now be visible without needing the use of multilateration.

Not entirely true, I think.

When MLAT first started, there was a load of mil stuff showing their MLAT positions along with a few full ADSB mil aircraft. Not long after, FR24 took military aircraft off the site (even those with full ADSB such as the A330s).

Just recently I've started to see them come back, not sure whether this is intentional or by accident.

[Airbanda]

@DaveReid

Apologies if my earlier response was a bit brusque. Understand how FR24 works in terms of ADS-B etc, I hadn't though considered multilateration specifically.

I was thinking more along lines of some change in carriage of ADS-B or FR24's filtering setup which removes some flights.

Visibility of MLAT derived plots can be turned on/off in the user control panel. It is I suppose possible given (a) recent changes to the FR24 layout and (b) use of CCleaner mucking with my cookies that I've changed MLAT from off to on. I was able to track today's flight some way below 5,000 feet which is suggested limit of MLAT.

Next time I see the Hercss I'll switch MLAT off and see what happens.

EDIT: There's some interesting stuff about FR24 and MLAT in this thread: http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/553337-ba-raf-lakenheath.html.

A quick check now demonstrates that toggling MLAT on/off makes CFE flights, and a lot of other stuff I normally see appear/disappear. That rather weakens the theory that it's disclosing the Hercs etc since I'd certainly not seen them until this week.

[DaveReidUK]

Apologies if my earlier response was a bit brusque. Understand how FR24 works in terms of ADS-B etc, I hadn't though considered multilateration specifically.No offence taken, it certainly looks like there is more to this than meets the eye.

[treadigraph]

What 750XL says is what I observed around September 2013 - MLAT was added to FR24 and a lot of UK and US mil was evident (including the BBMF Spitfire V on one occasion!), but they soon became hidden, within a month I think. I imagine that their reappearance is an error.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Picking up RAF Bae 146 now. Didn't know they were grey now !

[DaveReidUK]

Didn't know they were grey now !Only the two ex-TNT QCs that were deployed in a tactical role to Afghanistan, I believe.

The pair that the royals fly around in are still in the white scheme with the Union Flag on the fin.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Ah ok, thanks dave

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Picking up a merlin out of Brize now. Shows the RAF logo, but if you go into search airlines, and click on RAF, it says no flights ?

[TOWTEAMBASE]

And voyager TARTN11 off of the Norfolk/Lincolnshire Coast doing circuits

[Airbanda]

Another C130 bumbled by an hour or so ago heading E>W. Showing as FL100 on FR24 it was also clearly visible.

It's position is being multilaterated; it disappeared as soon as MLAT was turned off. As they're regular flybys and not seen until last week I can only assume some change in what FR24 is choosing to show/hide.