View Full Version : Multiculturalism

12th Jan 2015, 16:10
With recent happenings I've had cause to wonder exactly what 'Multiculturalism' actually means. The dictionary describes it as the noun of "Multicultural" i.e. Relating to or containing several cultural or ethnic groups within a society
Bloor says it is a society that is at ease with the rich tapestry of human life and the desire amongst people to express their own identity in the manner they see fit.
Blainey says it is divisive. It threatens social cohesion. It could, in the long-term, also endanger military security because it sets up enclaves which in a crisis could appeal to their own homelands for help. Multiculturalism is morally, intellectually and economically a sham

I find myself falling along the lines of Roosevelt in 1915

“There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.

This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.

But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.

The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.

Is it racist to expect people to change to fit into 'your' society? If it is I think I'm guilty..

12th Jan 2015, 16:13
a) No
b) If the answer to (a) is yes, I am also guilty.

12th Jan 2015, 16:17
Well, can you have a Multicultural society that lives in harmony? Is the current series of events an historical anomaly or a portent of the future?

I've got 2 kids..

12th Jan 2015, 16:24
In action - where everyone gets Malay, Indian, Western and Chinese public holidays.

Public Holidays 2015 (http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/leave-and-holidays/pages/public-holidays-2015.aspx)

12th Jan 2015, 16:24
Is it racist to expect people to change to fit into 'your' society? If it is I think I'm guilty..

No, but ...........
If they can live in 'our' society peacefully and productively, without inconveniencing us, without imposing their beliefs and ways on us, and without burdening us with extra costs, then I don't see why they should change to 'fit into' our society.

Then again, if they choose not to fit in, which effectively means they isolate themselves, then they must accept the consequences and limitations of that.

What is fundamentally wrong is the way 'we' bend over backwards to accommodate and appease 'them'. I am totally against that, so no doubt I am racist in the eyes of many, even if this has nothing to do with 'race' at all.

12th Jan 2015, 16:26

Good question. I going to give my 2 cents on this but from an American perspective. My answer to the original question would be yes, multiculturalism can work.

I look at my country and although we are all Americans there are many different cultures here. Ones that have been here for a very long time as well. Take, for example, the folks down in Louisiana. Lots of cultural differences between them and, say, New Englanders. Just as they are cultural differences between Alaskans and South Carolinians. Granted, we do all share a certain affinity between us, but there are cultural differences by and large.

12th Jan 2015, 16:30
Hempy........ فمن الناس مثلك الذين ينتقدون عطلة على الفيلم الحافلات

12th Jan 2015, 16:31
is a society that is at ease with the rich tapestry of human life and the desire amongst people to express their own identity in the manner they see fit.

If certain people desire to express their identity by murdering those who have offended them or who have chosen the wrong religion then I'm definitely NOT at ease with it........

12th Jan 2015, 16:35
In action - where everyone gets Malay, Indian, Western and Chinese public holidays.

When I lived in Singapore in the 1960s, the British had 'Christian' holidays, the Chinese had their own, the Indians likewise and the Malays had everyones....

12th Jan 2015, 16:36
What could possibly go wrong?

12th Jan 2015, 16:50
A multi ethnic society works fine -a multicultural society is a different matter. My children are a mix of Scots,Irish,Filipino and Chinese with friends from several communities in our local area - when they get together there really is no sign of multiculturalism.The young people of today don't give a bugger about race religion or colour - there is hope for us yet.

12th Jan 2015, 16:56
What could possibly go wrong?
All you have to do is ask the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Russian/Soviet Empire, or the Roman Empire.

12th Jan 2015, 16:59
All you have to do is ask the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Russian/Soviet Empire, or the Roman Empire.
Or the European 'Union', the 'United' Kingdom, the Organisation of African 'Unity', or any of the artificial federations that have been created throughout history.

12th Jan 2015, 18:19
Britain is a multicultural society that works 99% of the time.

Most people accept the mixture of races and origins here and, while not understanding some views and beliefs, most people agree that few of us can claim to be 'original Britons'.

We do have both immigrants and people from this country who break the law, who live on benefits and who abuse the system. These people let down their own societies.

We do have intolerant British people who shout about "Johnny Foreigners taking all our jobs, milking our benefits, carrying out all the crimes and hogging the streets.

While we may be currently a bit too lenient about the people we allow to arrive, in general the country would cease to work were it not for immigrants.

On the whole we all get along pretty well and our system would fall apart were it not from the contribution from all races here.

12th Jan 2015, 18:53
Canada is amulticultural society and is proud of it.

The US is a melting pot and is proud of it.

Where would you prefer to live (there is no right answer)?

Me, If it couldn't be here : Canada

Espada III
12th Jan 2015, 19:07
I like the Roosevelt comment. Norman Tebbitt had a similar idea with the Cricket test. I have a quandary. If an English or British team were to play a game against Israel, who would I support? As a Brit I should support 'my' team, but we also traditionally favour the underdogs. Do I support the team with my coreligionists, but what if the Israeli team has a sizeable non-Jewish part? Does it depend upon the import of the competition?

I have no answer. Recently an Israeli handball team came to Manchester to play a Warrington team in the first European game in the UK for 25 years. The local Jewish community was asked to come and show support which a few of did, and the total size of the gate was about 200 of whom the majority were Jewish. Not many regular spectators for handball it seems. Whilst we waved a few Israeli flags, we applauded both sides as I suspect I would have done in every sport except football, which is much more tribal and therefore taking sides is required I suppose. Not going to get a scarf wearing Man City supporter sitting in the Stretford End.

12th Jan 2015, 20:05
The US is a melting pot and is proud of it.

It certainly used to be, but I would now question that statement. 30 - 40 years ago, ask any American who he was and he'd give you a strange look and reply "An American, of course." Try that nowadays and your probable answer will be a something American with a hyphen in the middle, with the something coming before the American part.

12th Jan 2015, 20:10

I am an American. Nothing else but that. What my ancestry was I am well aware of. But I am not any of those, I am an American.

Gertrude the Wombat
12th Jan 2015, 20:38
Is it racist to expect people to change to fit into 'your' society?
Quite aside from that, it would be pretty bloody boring if all the takeaways sold nothing but fish and chips.

I'm perfectly happy for all this immigrant communities to keep their own cuisine, and as long as they do so I'll keep buying it.

Mac the Knife
12th Jan 2015, 20:50
"All you have to do is ask the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Russian/Soviet Empire, or the Roman Empire."

The old Empires, in their own way, didn't work so badly - certainly no worse than the squabbling mess we have now. The rise of nationalism during the Age of Enlightenment has a lot to answer for and the EU has not been the answer.

Once upon a time a man could declare with some pride, "Civis Romanus sum", whether he came from Mesopotamia or Mancumium and enjoy rights and privileges that non-citizens did not.

See, for interest's sake:

Apostle Paul's Roman citizenship (http://www.biblestudy.org/roman-empire/how-difficult-was-it-to-obtain-roman-citizenship.html)


Paul the Roman Citizen: Roman Citizenship in the Ancient World and its Importance for Understanding Acts 22:22-29 | Sean A. Adams - Academia.edu (http://www.academia.edu/3793625/Paul_the_Roman_Citizen_Roman_Citizenship_in_the_Ancient_Worl d_and_its_Importance_for_Understanding_Acts_22_22-29)

Irreligious Mac


Um... lifting...
12th Jan 2015, 20:54
I am an American. Nothing else but that.

Now, now, RGB... don't be shy. Everyone knows that in addition to being an American you're a proud Nutmegger (demonym for those proud denizens of the Constitution State, Connecticut).

Variously called Connecticuter or Connecticutian (you think I'm making this up, but my imagination isn't that good).

12th Jan 2015, 21:02
Um... lifting....

I left CT last year guy, and returned to my home state of New York. CT can kiss my..... buttocks. :}:E

The residents of the Nutmeg State are referred to by various names. Most of them not nice. To include, Connecti-cnut-ian. Much more appropriate.

12th Jan 2015, 21:05
Mr lifting, calling RGB a Connecticnuter is quite an insult.

I'm surprised at his restrained reply. :ooh:

12th Jan 2015, 21:07

Um.... lifting... is forgiven his sins. I was, for far too long, a resident of Connecticnut. He can be forgiven for not having realized I escaped back across the border. Unfortunately I didn't blow the sh** hole up before I left.

12th Jan 2015, 21:15
Well that'll learn ya to utilise your C-4 before its use-by date.

Um... lifting...
12th Jan 2015, 21:18
Long ago attended school in CT. It's something like Wales, with fewer sheep, fewer vowels, colder rain, extra sleet, giant summer mosquitoes, tweed, couples named Biff & Buffy, and fried clams. It has other characteristics, these are but a small sample.

NY is better for RGB, he can more easily keep his cold blue eyeball on one Hillary Clinton.

12th Jan 2015, 22:12
As regards the differences between Canada and the US regarding multiculturalism (dual citizen here):

Traditionally immigrants came to the US intending to become American, and relishing the freedom thereof.

Traditionally immigrants came to Canada for a slight but significant different reason: they relished the freedom, and recognized that the society would enjoy seeing different cultures living side by side.

That worked okay, until the 60's, when Canada's push to "multiculturalize" everything meant creating a hugely inefficient bureaucracy to manage language "protection". No matter how much bending over went on it was never enough for the offended class. Now a quarter of the population lives in the most racist culture in America.

Now that urge to protect everyone's culture rather than aim toward a common culture, is in danger of leading to chaos. I think the jury is still out on multiculturalism on both sides of the border.

12th Jan 2015, 23:09
I became a Canadian citizen this May. There was a large Somali refugee family; mother, 4 daughters, 2 sons. Mother wore a headscraf, daughters were dressed in a manner that would get them stoned in Somalia.
The instant after the mother had shaken the Judge's and the Mountie's hands, thus confirming her citizenship, she took off her headscarf and shook out her hair in a manner that left no doubt that she would never wear one again.

was gingernut
12th Jan 2015, 23:22
I get a bit confused.

I have to warn my muslim colleague that she sometimes appears a little.......erm, the right side of the margin, my black colleague has been accused of racism, I've looked after British Soldiers (who were not all white C of E Christians), and Afghanistan nationals alike, and the biggest wankers I know are white, and British born

Sorry if I've focused on colour, that's how it was when I was brought up on a diet of Dirty Bernard and "love thy neighbor."

Any way, **** it, I'm off to Birmingham for a decent curry.

12th Jan 2015, 23:22
It could be argued that the long-lived Empires were Multi-racial, rather than Multi-cultural.

The former maintains a strong social identity. The latter is a dog's breakfast, free-for-all.

12th Jan 2015, 23:22
My son became a British citizen last year. He was the only white English-speaking person at the ceremony to do so, and out of the 60 or so people present (celebrants and family/guests), apart from his mother and I, there was only one other white person, a very elderly man with a very young Nigerian womnan who was becoming a UK citizen.

The ceremony was very dignified and quite moving, ran like clockwork, and the speech made by the presiding officer was a delight to listen to. We spoke to several of the other people there, mostly professionals and educated people from around the world.

The problem of multi-culturalism is not people like those, it's the riffraff who enter the country legally (possibly) and become illegal by over-staying, and then abuse the system, or the so-called asylum seekers with their sense of entitlement. Unaccountables.

12th Jan 2015, 23:25
In reponse to that tripe from Fox News about Birmingham being a no-go city for non-Muslims, the BBC sent a reporter there in search of the multicultural society. The clincher came from a dark skinned gentleman with a ripe Brummy accent who when asked whether Birmingham was a multicultural city just nodded in the direction of his white wife/partner standing beside him and laughed.

12th Jan 2015, 23:28
Fox3 as always a well thought out post.

Is it racist to expect people to change to fit into 'your' society? If it is I think I'm guilty..

I do expect people to change but I don't think that makes me a racist. When I visited certain countries abroad I was expected to, and did comply with the rules and culture of that state.

Why across most of the western world we allow exactly the opposite is beyond me, it really is.

12th Jan 2015, 23:29
At a Canadian ceremony, every adult (under 55) is guaranteed to be an English or French speaker (and everybody was at mine). And in the discussion afterwards as to how we would celebrate, the dozen or people I spoke to all admitted they were back to work that afternoon (as was I), and would celebrate at the weekend.

12th Jan 2015, 23:42
Germany, The Netherlands, and some of Scandinavia have officially abandoned multi-culturism as a complete failure. Britain and Australia should follow suit. There is an ever growing element in all western countries that totally rejects the indigenous culture of those countries and doesn't just reject it but actively campaigns against it.

Singapore, as mentioned, is the only multi-cultural society I have lived in.

CoodaShooda has it, countries these days are multi racial, but not multi cultural.

To me a true multi-cultural society is one where the indigenous culture prevails and is accepted by immigrants while at the same time those elements of the immigrants culture that are acceptable to the indigenous culture are also accepted and those that are not, (female circumcision, honour killings, actively preaching against the indigenous culture etc.) are not only rejected but prohibited by law and the law is obeyed by all. Currently a no-hope situation.

Flying Lawyer
12th Jan 2015, 23:42
TTNIn reponse to that tripe from Fox News ...

Very funny. :)

Full version of Emerson's ridiculous claims about both Birmingham and London.


Eddie Dean
13th Jan 2015, 03:16
Australia, following Canada, was one of the first countries to adopt a formal national policy on multiculturalism.[48 (http://press.anu.edu.au/hrj/2009_02/mobile_devices/ch07s08.html#ftn.d0e3744)] In the case of Canada, this meant a national policy of bilingualism and recognition of both Anglo and Franco-Canadian cultural traditions. In Australia, however, it was taken up in a more ambitious manner. Under the progressive Whitlam Government (1972–75), multiculturalism was presented as an ideal response to Australia’s increasing cultural diversity, resulting from changes to immigration legislation since World War II. Whitlam’s flamboyant Minister for Immigration Al Grassby is credited as one of the ‘founding fathers’ Read`more here if interested, is from ANU in Australia

13th Jan 2015, 03:28
I am an American. Nothing else but that. What my ancestry was I am well aware of. But I am not any of those, I am an American.
rg that has been my experience with Americans and that is what struck me when I first visited your fine country nearly 50 years ago. My American friends all call themselves Americans first but each and every one are proud to acknowledge their roots. That is the way it should be. I haven't been to the US in 10 years, but from the outside looking in via the media it seems to me that you and those who think like you are becoming a minority in your own country and that isn't right.

As far as multiculturalism in Canada is concerned, obgraham has hit one out of the park.

13th Jan 2015, 04:13
Whitlam’s flamboyant Minister for Immigration Al Grassby is credited as one of the ‘founding fathers’

"Flamboyant" is one word to describe Grassbys performance as Immigration Minister. "Criminal" is another (see Grassby and the Mafia (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/monuments-to-honesty-and-deceit-20090215-881s.html).

Regardless of the policies if the 70's and 80's, whilst the Chinese, Italians, Greeks, Vietnamese, Eastern Europeans etc who have chosen Australia as their home in the last 100+ years have ADDED to Australias culture and society, the latest arrivals from the Middle East/Africa seem to have a lot more trouble assimilating. I don't know whose fault that is.

13th Jan 2015, 04:14
Interesting take on Multiculturalism:
Radical Islam and Multicultural Suicide | Works and Days (http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/multicultural-suicide/)

Multiculturalism is one of those buzzwords that does not mean what it should. The ancient and generic Western study of many cultures is not multiculturalism. Rather, the trendy term promotes non-Western cultures to a status equal with or superior to Western culture largely to fulfill contemporary political agendas.
On college campuses, multiculturalism not so much manifests itself in the worthy interest in Chinese literature, Persian history, or hieroglyphics, but rather has become more a therapeutic exercise of exaggerating Western sins while ignoring non-Western pathologies to attract those who see themselves in some way as not part of the dominant culture.

Fox3 - first time I went to Montreal, I quickly figured out it was OK to speak English, but to do it with a rather exaggerated US American accent (preferably a southern US accent). Nearly everyone spoke English - they just didn't let on. As soon as they figured out I was American, I was treated quite well - in sharp contrast to the English speaking Canadians :ugh: Also, as someone who has repeatedly struggled with even the most basic use of various non-English languages (I'm quite good at working math and engineering - not so much other languages), I was simply amazed by all the people that could effortlessly switch back and forth between flawless French and English mid-sentence :ok:

13th Jan 2015, 10:28
Ah yes, les Quebecois

Les Québécois sont des anglos qui parlent français | Pascal Henrard / URBANIA | Urbania (http://www.lapresse.ca/vivre/urbania/201310/04/01-4696619-les-quebecois-sont-des-anglos-qui-parlent-francais.php)

This article in La Presse reckons they're all secretly Anglos who speak French, and therefore feel very defensive with real Anglos.
I am fortunate to speak French with a half-decent Parisian accent, so I get accepted as a visiting Frenchman. The problem is that they immediately give me full speed Canadian French, of which I understand about 1 word in 3. But at least I don't get sneered at.

Get to know the Dutch - they all speak at least 6 languages.

Gertrude the Wombat
13th Jan 2015, 10:31
Get to know the Dutch - they all speak at least 6 languages.
Waiting for someone in a Dutch office. The cleaner came in. She chatted to us in English, for the language practice.

Imagine that with a foreign language visitor in an English office!

13th Jan 2015, 10:41
Get to know the Dutch - they all speak at least 6 languages.That's a bit of an exaggeration, but there are very few who don't speak English at a level which puts many native English speakers to shame, along with one or two other European languages.

When working with Dutch people, I often forget that they are not native English speakers, since they are not only linguistically good but also have the same understanding of humour and colloquialism.

I have a Dutch friend who speaks English, with a slight Irish accent since he studied there, Mandarin Chinese, Thai, French, Spanish, German, and Czech. He's also good looking, dresses beautifully, has impeccable manners and charm, and is married - to a man! My female friends who meet him always say "what a waste ...."

13th Jan 2015, 11:04
Once, when chatting to a Dutch colleague about their famed language abilities I asked how on earth they did it. His reply: "It's easy. We have to. Who the **** else speaks Dutch!"

13th Jan 2015, 11:07
Civic Nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism) vs Ethnic Nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism)

Migration and Multiculturalism : Birth Pains of a New Civic Nation (http://www.diploweb.com/Migration-and-Multiculturalism.html)

Islam and the End of European Multiculturalism? From Multiculturalism to Civic Integration (http://www.wwwords.co.uk/pdf/validate.asp?j=pfie&vol=12&issue=1&year=2014&article=1_Editorial_PFIE_12_1_web)

13th Jan 2015, 11:23
Imagine that with a foreign language visitor in an English office!

If the visitor spoke Sudanese, Somali or Urdu they would probably get on all right! ;)

13th Jan 2015, 11:28
Who the **** else speaks Dutch!" Only the Vlaamse, who don't really count for much, and the Afrikaners, about which no doubt someone will say 'ditto'!

There are a couple of languages such as Papiamento and Surinamese which draw from Dutch.

13th Jan 2015, 11:32
I got into a cab at Amsterdam Central station once and found I'd got the only taxi driver in Amsterdam who didnt speak English! Still, he spoke German and with my O Level German we just about got by. My son lives in Delft and works in Rotterdam and he now speaks reasonable Dutch, to the point that the locals now only rarely reply in English when he speaks to them, which can be depressing when you are learning a language!

Low Flier
13th Jan 2015, 11:40
"It's easy. We have to. Who the **** else speaks Dutch!"

I'm cursed by being fluent in Norwegian. A thoroughly useless language as it's only spoken by about five million people of the planet's six or seven billion people. At least four million of those five million speak English at least as well as I do.

I naturally speak with with a Sunnmøre accent, but I can imitate the Bergense and Stavanger accents as well as Nord Norge dialect.

Speaking in multiple accents is a bit of a Noggie trait, multikulti in their own way:

13th Jan 2015, 12:15
så her er vi på en annen fyllefest igjen, skål!

The only phrase I remember in Norwegian!

13th Jan 2015, 12:42
All I remember about Norway is people using their cigarette lighters to melt the urine from car door locks after leaving the nightclub at 2am so the keys would work. Apparently it was a great practical joke..

Thank heavens for central locking!

oh, and lutefisk

Low Flier
13th Jan 2015, 14:02
You can keep the fekkin lutefisk.

That, and criminals, are ideal for ǝxdoɹʇ ʇo ʇɥǝ dǝuɐl ɔolouᴉǝs snɔɥ ɐs ∀nsʇɹɐlᴉɐ.

13th Jan 2015, 14:27
Oz knows the meaning of multiculturalism, by golly. (Somebody please tell me Adelaide Now is the equivalent of The Onion.)

Adelaide pathologist wants more squat toilets to address needs of large migrant population. (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/adelaide-pathologist-heddy-zola-wants-more-squat-toilets-to-address-needs-of-large-migrant-population/story-fni6uo1m-1226789802121?nk=a0953061aba8a46ff64b2d589fdade6a)

bugged on the right
13th Jan 2015, 14:35
Pigboat, what Adelaide needs is toilets which fire it right back at them. After several experiences they should learn how to use the toilet. This is why they won't integrate. No need.

13th Jan 2015, 15:40
I used a bidet to pee in once in France. Amusing for me after I found out what its real purpose in life is. Not so amusing for Die Frauelein at the time. :ok:

13th Jan 2015, 15:43
A prominent Saudi Arabian cleric has caused a stir by declaring the building of snowmen as anti-Islamic.
After a snowstorm hit northern Saudi Arabia this week, a religious website asked Sheikh Mohammed Saleh al-Munajjid if it was acceptable for fathers to build snowmen for their children, Reuters reports.
"It is not permitted to make a statue out of snow, even by way of play and fun," Sheikh Munajjid said.
Sheikh Munajjid, quoting Muslim scholars, argues that the building of snowmen creates an image of human beings -- an action viewed as sinful under Saudi Arabia’s interpretation of Sunni Islam.
The decree drew mixed responses on Twitter, where users were posting in Arabic and identifying themselves with Arab names.
"They are afraid for their faith of everything ... sick minds," one user wrote.
"It (building snowmen) is imitating the infidels, it promotes lustiness and eroticism," another user wrote. "May God preserve the scholars, for they enjoy sharp vision and recognize matters that even Satan does not think about."

Low Flier
13th Jan 2015, 16:01

13th Jan 2015, 16:17
My kind of snow sculptures! :ok:

13th Jan 2015, 16:41
"It (building snowmen) is imitating the infidels, it promotes lustiness and eroticism," another user wrote. "May God preserve the scholars, for they enjoy sharp vision and recognize matters that even Satan does not think about." I hope he was being sarcastic.
If not, then he needs to try to have it on with a snowman / snowwoman / snowgoat. That should teach him about how lustiness relates to snowmen. :rolleyes:

13th Jan 2015, 17:07

I think he was being sarcastic, especially with his reference to Satan. Then again, ya never know!

flying lid
13th Jan 2015, 18:40
Moroccan-born mayor of Rotterdam tells fellow Muslims who do not appreciate the 'freedoms' of living in the West to 'pack your bags and f*** off' on live TV

Ahmed Aboutaleb, a Moroccan-born Muslim, spoke after Paris attack
The mayor said Dutch Muslims who 'don't like freedom' can f*** off
He added: 'Vanish from the Netherlands if you cannot find your place here'
Aboutaleb became the first immigrant mayor in the Netherlands in 2008

Rotterdam Mayor tells fellow Muslims who don't appreciate West to 'f*** off' | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2907941/Moroccan-born-mayor-Rotterdam-tells-fellow-Muslims-not-appreciate-freedoms-living-West-pack-bags-f-live-TV.html)


13th Jan 2015, 19:31
I had two separate tours on a NATO working group. As luck would have it, my RNN colleague was on both. Not only was his English better than mine, but his sense of humour was the same.

I remember meeting him again at the start of our second tour on the committee a couple of years later and him looking at the agenda and him remarking to me "the agenda looks exactly the same as for my last meeting" (it was, as in common with anything to do with NATO back then, little real work got done - it wasn't referred to as the "travelling cocktail party" without good reason).

14th Jan 2015, 00:18
Moroccan-born mayor of Rotterdam tells fellow Muslims who do not appreciate the 'freedoms' of living in the West to 'pack your bags and f*** off' on live TV

Excellent, I only hope this catches on.

14th Jan 2015, 00:59

14th Jan 2015, 06:54
Snowman is propheting from the occasion

14th Jan 2015, 07:42
til the jihad



14th Jan 2015, 12:56
good Lord, Hempy. Snowmen terrorists. (Or is that terrorist snowmen?)
In this case, I hope the temperature changes to 100F real quick. :}

14th Jan 2015, 13:08
He's not a terrorist - he's a freedom fighter. Can't you tell the difference?

14th Jan 2015, 14:17
I had a very multicultural childhood.
In my class at Primary School (Fulham), we had 2 pupils from South London.
They spoke funny.
We supported Chelsea, they supported Crystal Palace.

14th Jan 2015, 14:29
You don't think they got the idea from:

You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; --Exodus 20:2-5

Just wondering ...

wings folded
14th Jan 2015, 14:37
I suppose that means that selfies are out of the question, then?

14th Jan 2015, 14:59
exxb, a graven image means what, exactly? Here, let's look it up.
grav·en im·age graven image; plural noun: graven images
a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship.

As it is hardly being so used, and the Prophet is NOT a god, then what is your attempt at a point, sir? :confused::confused:

14th Jan 2015, 15:22
I suppose that means that selfies are out of the question, then? They were discussing that on the radio yesterday, about how new technology is forcing rapid changes to the view of what's acceptable.

Apparently the vast majority of the faithful going to Mecca on the Haj are taking smart phones and snapping selfies and other photos all over the place and putting them up on the social media sites. Religious police are apoplectic, but there's nothing they can do about it. The world view point of the current generation is blasé to photos and cartoons and all use google and youtube.

As in many things, the crises of the older generation are incomprehensible to the next.

“The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.” - L.P. Hartley, The Go-Between

Low Flier
15th Jan 2015, 00:18
They were discussing that on the radio yesterday, about how new technology is forcing rapid changes to the view of what's acceptable.

Nowadays they call it the wireless.

Not much has changed since I were a lad.

What did the Prophet have to say about heavier than air flying machines then, eh?

Lemme guess: "Thou shalt learn on a Boeing sim how to fly in the cruise, but it is Haram to learn how to takeoff or to land. Extreme spot landings are halal".

15th Jan 2015, 00:59
Achmed the snowman I do declare. :ooh: