Argentinians Peeved

[AGS Man]

I see the Argentinians are a bit peeved about the recently unveiled bronze bust of Margaret Thatcher in Stanley http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6255.
Personally I'd rename MPA Margaret Thatcher International Airport!

[pr00ne]

You'd name MPA after Thatcher? The Prime Minister who presided over the loss of the Falklands and whose defence cuts, slashing of the RN surface fleet, scrapping of carriers, retirement of HMS Endurance and general neglect of foreign policy led to the Argentinian Government deternining that they could successfully invade and retain the Falklands? Wow!

[AGS Man]

Whatever your opinion of her the Falkland Islanders seem to like her. And I think if you check your history you'll find that her Government was not responsible for the withdrawal and scrapping of any aircraft carriers.

[Al R]

Pr00ne

The Falkland Islands weren't lost old son, they fell behind the sofa for a few months.

[pr00ne]

AGS Man,

What? Thatchers Government sold HMS Invincible to the Australians, announced the premature retirement of HMS Hermes, the scrapping of HMS Fearless and Intrepid, the disbandment of the FAA Wessex 5 squadrons and the total abandonment of helicopter and amphibious lift for the Royal Marines, disbandment of Royal Marine Commando Groups and the scrapping without replacement of HMS Endurance.

Do you remember Thatcher's Defence Minister? A certain Mr Nott?

What kind of message do you think that lot sent out to the Argentinian Government?

[Wander00]

Do I look bovvered (at what the Argies think about this)

[Roadster280]

AGS Man,

What? Thatchers Government sold HMS Invincible to the Australians, announced the premature retirement of HMS Hermes, the scrapping of HMS Fearless and Intrepid, the disbandment of the FAA Wessex 5 squadrons and the total abandonment of helicopter and amphibious lift for the Royal Marines, disbandment of Royal Marine Commando Groups and the scrapping without replacement of HMS Endurance.

Do you remember Thatcher's Defence Minister? A certain Mr Nott?

What kind of message do you think that lot sent out to the Argentinian Government?

The wrong message, I should think. I think the message received in BA seems to have been "The British won't be that bothered if we take the islands, they aren't interested".

What the actual message was, was "We have no money, the last government left us in such a dire situation that we have to make cuts to even remotely balance the budget". A position the Argentinians are quite familiar with today, as is the UK for that matter.

I think they made two mistakes. Firstly, a nuclear-armed true bluewater Navy with aircraft carrier(s), two more on order, amphibious landing ships, a couple of dozen submarines, plenty of escorts and a merchant fleet that had plenty of lift for troops, equipment and fuel, backed by an airforce with long range bombers and an Army of 150,000 makes for a potent enemy, with or without the cuts.

Secondly, they seem to have forgotten that the Cold War was on, and if the UK had caved in, it would have sent a message to the Soviets.

I agree that the Nott cuts were unwelcome, but a) they were mostly reversed and b) they served as a timely lesson to politicians at the time.

[Finningley Boy]

pr00ne,

I can't quite work you out old chap, your comments on here come across as some kind of ultra-right martial minded Hawk. You've just complained about defence cuts under the early Thatcher administration and directly blamed this for the Argentinian invasion. Do you recall the position of Her Majesty's Loyal opposition at the time? That is before when they were in Government and during the Thatcher years when in opposition.

FB:)

[Bollotom]

HMS Invincible was originally an Australian Navy purchase, to be named HMAS Australia but the upcoming threat darn sarf meant that the Royal Navy would take her over and she continued in RN service until being scrapped in Turkey. But why let inaccuracies spoil the truth, hey? :ok:

[Sleeve Wing]

PrOOne

>>> Do you recall the position of Her Majesty's Loyal opposition at the time? That is before when they were in Government and during the Thatcher years when in opposition. <<<

A little error in your profile, old boy ? "Socialist" barrister, maybe ?

Still, don't let us allow politics to spoil a good story ………. ;)

[Bollotom]

Agree. It was actually young Denis Healey when Defence Minister in the 70s, along with his cancellation of TSR 2. Perhaps Pr00ne is confusing Denis Healey with Denis Thatcher, an easy mistake to make. :rolleyes:

[Stanwell]

Bollotom,
Well, not exactly old mate.
My recollection is that HMS Invincible had been commissioned into and was part of the RN.

Having retired HMAS Melbourne, an old Majestic class carrier, OZ was faced with being without a Fleet Air Arm of any kind.
Invincible was offered to us, second hand, at a bargain-basement price and, after a deal of internal argument over how much it would cost to make her suitable for integration into our Navy, the offer was accepted.

The Falklands crisis arose and Britain said to us "Umm chaps, would you mind if..."
The rest is history.

[Whenurhappy]

Yes, and who was it who indicated to the Government of Argentina in 1977 that the UK was prepared to discuss the Sovereignty of the FI...




...which resulted in a submarine and a frigate or two being deployed not-so-secretly by the UK when Argentina read the UK politics as carte blanche (as our newly-found French comrades would say) to prepare to invade?

[BEagle]

....the recently unveiled bronze bust of Margaret Thatcher in Stanley.

Well, I suppose it'll give the geese something else to crap on....:hmm:

[pr00ne]

Bollotom,

..."upcoming threat down sarf...."

Now whose letting inaccuracies spoil the truth eh?

The HMS Invincible sale had been agreed and signed with the Australians and they had crew over in the UK training to take it over.

It was only after WE LOST THE FALKLANDS to an Argentinian invasion that someone somewhere realised that maybe, just maybe, that Thatcher Defence Minister Mr Nott was not as smart as he claimed.

Not sure quite what you mean about Dennis Healey? I think YOU are confusing your decades...

Roadster280,

How ironic, it was almost the exact same phrase used by Labour when they took over from the Tories in 1964, who were the first to admit "sorry old boy, there's no money left" to the incoming Labour Chancellor.

As for Her Majesty's Loyal opposition, that will have been the Labour Party, the same Labour Party that when in power in the previous administration had actually ORDERED the Sea Harrier, after years of Tory prevaricating.

And it was that same Labour Government that had seen off two previous Argentinian threatenings to the Falklands, as Whenurhappy has already pointed out, by discretely deploying Frigates and mentioning that they MAY have deployed an SSN or two...

FinningleyBoy,


No idea what you are on about, right wing? You been drinking?

[Navaleye]

pr00ne,

You are yet again factually incorrect re Invincible. Australia had an option to buy which was never exercised. No money changed hands, no contracts changed hands no RAN personnel were here. As usual, you are ill informed and hopelessly inaccurate.

[Bollotom]

Pr00ne, dear fellow. Only a Wikiwotsit but if you read about the good Denis you can see I was not getting my decades mixed up, as I lived through them.

When Labour won the 1964 election Healey served throughout the government as Secretary of State for Defence. He cut defence expenditure, scrapping Aircraft carriers, the proposed CVA01 and the reconstructed HMS Victorious, effectively a new ship in 1958 and cancelled his proposed carrier replacements 150 TSR-2 aircraft and then the F-111. Of the scrapped RN carriers, Healey commented that to most ordinary seamen they were just floating slums [6] and too vulnerable.

Perhaps I should cut you some slack as your losing the Falklands, and my definition were perhaps at cross purposes. :cool:

[Herod]

So the Argentinians are upset. Their problem. As a British Protectorate, the Falkland Islanders can erect any statue they want. Still, it takes the population's mind off other things.

[Hangarshuffle]

You'd have to live 8000 miles away from the Thatch to appreciate her and that time, to be honest. Let it lie man and move on. Time and life is short.

[Lima Juliet]

Lady Thatcher's bust? I wonder what size?

http://d5gkjh2gcjdml.cloudfront.net/TennOutdoors/SizeGuides/LadiesBust.png

LJ (thinking like an Air Eng...) :cool:

[Fg Off Bloggs]

Argies peeved! Who gives a s8!t!:D

Having recently visited the islands on vacation (sort of) I can think of no better position to place a very appropriate bust of the Iron Lady - who with brave heart and strong will set out to regain the FI when many of the doves around her suggested otherwise!

Pr00ne peeved! Who gives a s8!t!:p


Bloggs

[pr00ne]

Navaleye,

As you have occasionally been right on Naval matters, you may we'll be right, and the Australian engineer I was speaking to last year wrong, but my point was the announced intent to sell, and the Australian announced intent to buy, what the RAN called HMAS Australia. So your pedantic point scoring may well be accurate but it does nothing to lessen my original point.

[pr00ne]

Fg Off Bloggs,

Me, peeved? Not in the slightest! I couldn't give a rats arse where they put a bust of the old bag.

Brave heart and strong will? Hhhmmmm, I think that may well apply to the First Sea Lord and CDS, but from recently released cabinet papers, she was seemingly as wobbly as the most doveish of the the doves that you say surrounded her.

[Herod]

Wasn't it Mitterand who described her as "the lips of Marylyn Monroe and the eyes of Caligula"? Just what you need in a leader, plus a strong sense of purpose.

[Finningley Boy]

Sleevewing,

I couldn't agree more with you, my point refers to the irony of pr00ne complaining about defence cuts!:ok:

FB:)

[Stanwell]

.
There was a joke circulating during that era...

What's the difference between Maggie Thatcher and a Rottweiler?
Lipstick.

[NutLoose]

Well we could offer to mount the head of the Argentinian President on a plinth in the Falklands if she does not mind giving it up.. that would be fair.... wouldn't it?

:E


.

[alemaobaiano]

Well we could offer to mount the head of the Argentian President on a plinth in the Falklands if she does not mind giving it up.. that would be fair.... wouldn't it?

Strangely enough that's a sentiment that seem quite widespread in Argentina too, at least when I was there last week :}

As for the Thatcher statue, nobody I spoke to seemed interested enough to be peeved about it. The Falklands aren't very high on the agenda for ordinary Argentinians.

TTFN

[Brian W May]

I suppose the Argies could always send in their 'scrap metal dealers' like they did on South Georgia . . .

BTW, has the Sante Fe been replaced yet? :=

[Heathrow Harry]

Conrad Walters "world naval review 2015" says the "San Juan" - a TR-1700 SSK has been back in service following a refit since last summer

they have another one "Santa Cruz" and a smaller Type 209 the "Salta"

Plus 4 MEKO 360 destroyers , 6 MEKO 140 frigates and 3 corvettes -


all date from the late 70's to mid 80's

they're planning to replace a few tugs....................