View Full Version : Concorde replacement comes early

10th Jan 2015, 11:46
Well, if you believe the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2903168/British-Airways-flight-hits-powerhouse-jet-stream-New-York-London-reaching-near-supersonic-speeds-745mph.html?ito=social-facebook), anyway.

10th Jan 2015, 12:06
WTF is a powerhouse jet stream?

Did I miss a day in Met Class?

10th Jan 2015, 12:08
Airspeed is speed in the air, not speed across the ground assisted by favourable winds.

Kelly Hopper
10th Jan 2015, 12:53
I saw this this morning. The level of journalism is shocking! This is a major UK daily newspaper and their technical knowledge of a subject they are "educating" the public on is non existant?
How does this sh1t ever, or continuosly get past the editor?

Shaggy Sheep Driver
10th Jan 2015, 13:06
Concorde did not take advantage of jet streams 'to hit 1,350mph' as this rag claims. It cruised at Mach 2 or thereabouts which translates to a still air ground speed of about 1,350mph. It was well above the jet stream (up to 60,000'), on a fixed track each day which never changed regardless of upper winds.

10th Jan 2015, 13:06
Umm, I think the short answer is - because they're appealing to DM readers.
"Some dogs will eat anything."

Loose rivets
10th Jan 2015, 15:15
I once proudly announced to my passengers that we were going over Lake Geneva at a groundspeed which was greater than the speed of sound at the altitude we were flying. I imagine they were more confused than overjoyed. :\

10th Jan 2015, 15:52
This is a major UK daily newspaper

Er, no it's not. It's the Daily Fail/Wail/Heil. :yuk:

10th Jan 2015, 16:04
The Mail.

Why bother to read it? You know they talk rubbish.

Why bother to get indignant when they talk rubbish? You know they talk rubbish.

Why bother to post the fact that they talk rubbish? We all know they talk rubbish.

wings folded
10th Jan 2015, 16:09
How does this sh1t ever, or continuosly get past the editor?Because the editor is a country member.

10th Jan 2015, 16:16
Yiu`ve all been had, they only do it to wind up pruners :E

10th Jan 2015, 16:45
I usually find it quite funny. Not Ha Ha funny....more sad funny.

10th Jan 2015, 17:32
As I've experienced four digit km/h speed (1090 IIRC (and just calculated that to 680mph)) accordig to the flight infotainments during a MIA-FRA flight, this can't be that much breaking news!

10th Jan 2015, 17:56
The fastest commercial subsonic Atlantic crossing JFK -PWK was in the VC10 G-ASGC flown by Gwyn Mullet. Not supersonic, but bl**dy fast!

10th Jan 2015, 18:24
I once proudly announced to my passengers that we were going over Lake Geneva at a groundspeed which was greater than the speed of sound at the altitude we were flying. I imagine they were more confused than overjoyed.

Descending for Manchester from the East one day in the early 1990's, I announced that we were passing the lake that the Dambusters had used to practice their Bouncing Bomb technique.

When we disembarked one of the younger stewards asked .. "were you in the Dambusters, Captain ? "

One could weep.
( back to thread............. )

Shaggy Sheep Driver
10th Jan 2015, 18:32
The envelope for Concorde is quite complex. Not quite 600 kts. ASI went up to 570:


Here's the envelope:

Concorde Flight Envelope Photo by Bellerophon_photos | Photobucket (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/Bellerophon_photos/media/scan0005.jpg.html)

10th Jan 2015, 20:21
Here's the other end of the journalist scale, a long and detailed article by a journalist about aviation (the crash of Air France 447) which is both technically accurate and which comes to sensible conclusions.

Almost unique, I think. I'm tempted to find an address for the author and write to congratulate him.

Well worth the read.

Should Airplanes Be Flying Themselves? | Vanity Fair (http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash)

10th Jan 2015, 21:15
This fast crossing subject comes around every now and then, so let me roll out mine. Miami to Paris in 5hrs and 20mins in a DC10 in the mid 90's. I sat next to a Tourette's Syndrome adherent and we landed 2hrs quicker than normal which was appreciated.


10th Jan 2015, 21:35
Several years back, I flew a Singapore 777 Singapore-Hong Kong-Las Vegas with a highly favorable Jetstream tailwind. I don't know what peak airspeed we hit on the Hong Kong to Vegas leg, but we arrived in Vegas over 2 hours early.:E
Since the schedule arrival was too late to catch a connecting flight to Seattle, I was scheduled to spend the night in Vegas and fly to Seattle the next morning. But we arrived so early I was able to get on the last flight out that night to Seattle :ok:

10th Jan 2015, 22:00
I don't know what peak airspeed .............Are you really a pilot?

Edit: Sorry, just reread your post; the clue is "a connecting flight to Seattle..."

I'm sure you meant to write "groundspeed". This is an aviation forum, after all, even if the connection is a bit distant, sometimes.

10th Jan 2015, 22:10
Interesting story, but this isn't really new is it?

I was on a 777 out of IAD last February and made it into the air just as the first flakes of the HUGE dump of snow, pushed by an immense jet stream, hit DC and the East.

The pilot came on and said we were pushing back asap, to get ahead of the ice that was beginning to fall.

And that the trip to LHR was going to be about 5:15 hours. I couldn't believe it but he was right. We sped over the Atlantic like a comet.

Load of annoyed Club World barcolounger denizens though who thought they'd get their heads down for a good 6 hours or more of shut-eye. LOL Not even time for a few films while lounging.

Not that night! Zoooooooooooom.

So this happens sometimes, no? Worthy of a spread in the newspaper? I can't recall anybody even writing about it last time.

But then when getting into the arrivals lounge at T5, every big screen TV had either Snowmeggedon on it with the East Coast disappeared in White OR the other screens had the floods taking out most of the East of the UK.

Guess nobody had time for jet stream coverage...ha.

11th Jan 2015, 00:44
Yes Capot, you are absolutely correct, I meant groundspeed, not airspeed (then again, I don't know what our peak airspeed was either :E). What I mainly remember about that flight - aside from arriving 2 hours early - was that I was in business class (a two class layout) and it was so nice I was almost disappointed when we landed :ok:

11th Jan 2015, 15:58
With regards to Gwyn Mullett's record crossing the following is an extract from his book. It was in 1979 when he did the record-breaking flight:

"I did another rather amazing flight at about that time out of JFK to Prestwick and on to Manchester. This was one of the main routes ex-JFK and on this occasion when I checked in with operations at JFK the flight time shown on the plan was about five and a quarter hours which was pretty quick so I asked what the record was for the route and they ferreted around and said that it was held by a 707 at five hours and eight minutes. My tail was up and so I put a little bit of extra fuel on and told the people that we were out to beat that time. Little did I know that they had informed the control tower and so just after take-off we were told to route direct to Gander, Newfoundland and to ignore any speed restraints and they wished us good luck in our venture.

“Wow, we are off and running!” I said to the rest of the crew triumphantly.

After about two hours or so we were in the Gander area and we called for our ‘Atlantic clearance’ and would you believe it they were in the picture as well. They told us to route direct to Prestwick and not on the normal track system. As for the speed we were given a free hand as to how fast to go.

Super VC-10 G-ASGC, now preserved at Duxford Air Museum, hurtled across the North Atlantic at a speed that was just below the maximum the aircraft was allowed. The Flight Engineer was in his element and spent the night fine-tuning the engines to keep the speed spot on. After a short time the Chief Steward came onto the flight deck and announced that the dinner service was complete and that the passengers were now all bedded down for the night.

“I am sorry to spoil your rest break but we will be landing in just over two hours,” I said.

“What are we flying? A bloody Concorde or something! I will have to wake them up for a full English breakfast in one hour,” he replied.

“Scrub the breakfast and give them champagne for landing,” was my reply.

We arrived off the Scottish west coast after about four and a half hours’ flying and the Air Traffic Control fellow let us go direct to the downwind point for the landing. I woke the passengers with the news that we will be landing in about half an hour. That must have surprised them!

We finally landed just five hours and one minute after take-off from JFK. The scheduled time was six hours and 20 minutes so this was some achievement in my mind. Besides we had beaten the 707’s record by a wide margin. The amazing thing is that my time has, to this day, never been beaten by a scheduled aircraft. Not bad for a Hamster! It was party time in Manchester that night."

I have read his book 'with my head in the clouds part 1' and it is a bloody good read going back in time to the BOAC era.Web Site is: www.withmyheadintheclouds.com