baggage handler ran guns on 17 Delta flights

[BRE]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/opinion/gun-running-in-the-jet-age.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region&_r=0

in a carry-on - mindboggling

[currawong]

Aside from the obvious security implications, what is the point of "gun running" on a domestic flight?

[F6HellCat]

"But in the past they have said that cost and potential disruption of airline operations have argued against the use of metal detectors for all workers. The agency insisted it was alert to insiders’ threats and required regular background and criminal checks on employees. This hardly seemed enough after the backdoor path blazed by the Atlanta gun runners."

Just goes to show that cost saving is the number one priority to airlines over safety of passengers and crews.

[BRE]

"Aside from the obvious security implications, what is the point of "gun running" on a domestic flight?"

Different gun laws in different states. They could have smuggled them in the car, but the likelyhood of some highway trooper picking them up would - sadly - have been higher.

[Skyjob]

Amazing the treatment other airport workers get when in UK we are still even to surrender our water bottles of more than 100ml, that's 3.5 fl oz!

Carrying metal cutlery will cause an incident as does a belt buckle that's too big...
But in US airport workers are not screened?
Mind boggling...

[cavok_flyer]

Does this maybe mean that the security checks are somewhat over-blown and not really needed or at the very least scaled down? Seeing how the system can be relatively easily defeated.
To be honest, I would prefer a system like at Ben Gurion rather than the dog-and-pony show we have to go through in Europe.

[bugged on the right]

Meanwhile the War on Terror tm reg takes the guns off little boys' toy soldiers, rigorously confiscates yoghurt and shines torches up little old ladies' skirts in the name of political correctness. I really don't feel safe in airports knowing that there are people who bypass screening either because they work there or because they fit the PC profile.

[ETOPS]

Funny thing is I started a thread about this a few weeks ago when the story broke. It was titled "TSA security routinely bypassed" but was deleted by the mods the next day :rolleyes:

[Espada III]

To be honest, I would prefer a system like at Ben Gurion rather than the dog-and-pony show we have to go through in Europe.

And at TLV you can carry as much liquid as you want through security and onto the plane. For those of us travelling non-stop and hand luggage only, it makes it far less stressful.

[rotornut]

Aside from the obvious security implications, what is the point of "gun running" on a domestic flight?

AS BRE pointed out different states have different gun laws. I understand that New York State has some of the toughest in the country.

[etudiant]

AS BRE pointed out different states have different gun laws. I understand that New York State has some of the toughest in the country


Have to say this still sounds stupid.
The smugglers could rent a pickup for the price of a flight and drive 10x or more guns to NYC without fear of detection. Did they have a 24 hour delivery guarantee?
Given the state of paranoia prevalent here in the land of the free, I would expect this to be soon characterized as a government ploy to further crack down on travel freedom.

[NSEU]

Now, each airport works out separate security requirements; very few, if any, require physical screening of the full array of workers like airplane cleaners, mechanics and baggage handlers, according to Mr. Schumer.

I find it rather ironic that to comply with requirements of flights TO the USA, our airport has some rather draconian security measures (even for the staff). They even look inside McDonalds lunchboxes. One security guard even looked through the pages of a young engineer's experience logbook (about a quarter the thickness of a paperback).

[TURIN]

So, let me get this straight.
I can't get a half pound of butter or a portion of chicken soup airside at a UK regional airport but in the States I can walk in with an AK47 strapped to my leg?!!:mad:

[racedo]

How dare he muscle in on the Ex Attorney General Fast and Furious plan.

[PAXboy]

My guess as to why the did not hire a truck as suggested above - is that they could see this free route worked.

They might have done some dummy runs with simple items and then used the route for profit. It could have continued for a long time and there are doubtless many similar operations running in the USA.

In Africa, it was/is not unknown for an extra (innocuous) package or suitcase to be added to the cargo hold and after departure, one ground handler rings his friend at the destination and tells him that it's on it's way. Taking advantage of opportunity is what human beings do.

[Earl]

No you cant walk in with a AK 47 strapped to your leg.
But you can check it with checked baggage.
Has to be in approved container and unloaded.
TSA will check it then you lock it before it is sent to baggage handling.
You keep the key.
If carrying ammo you are allowed up to 11 pounds of this in original packaging or approved TSA one.
Original packing means same as you bought it in the box from the store.
You don't need to declare ammo to TSA in checked baggage.
Not allowed in carry on as common sense applies.
This is the approved way in USA domestic flights.
Why this idiot did this is beyond all thinking.
Check the gun and all OK in checked baggage.
Legal way is easy and no questions asked.

[surely not]

Earl you describe how legal guns can be carried by legal owners. I doubt that the guns smuggled by the baggage handler were for legal use!

[grounded27]

I am surprised the guy with the carry on made it 16 times through secondary screening. don't think as pax I have ever made it 3 legs. This does not add up to me, I just can not see how this would be profitable enough to make it worth it.

[Heathrow Harry]

seems pointless to me - he could have just got a mate in Georgia to buy the guns and drive them up to him.....................

[TURIN]

Earl. I'm talking about a member of ground staff (such as my good self) going about their normal duties but due to the draconian measures imposed since 2001, find that they have to go to the most extreme measures just to get a decent bite to eat.
For example, today a colleague of mine was told he could not bring a pot of rice pudding through because "it's not a solid and it weighs more than 100g!" :mad:

However it seems in parts of the USA one does not worry about such trivial matters. :ugh:

[ExXB]

Earl, you forgot one bit.

You cannot import guns into New York without various licenses and permits. Even in/as checked bags.

But you can buy guns on-line in Georgia without a background check, and if you can get them to New York, there are lots of black-hats there that are happy to pay a large premium. And who would suspect guns being shipped by air?

From Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ? Gun Law Information Experts (http://smartgunlaws.org/new-york-state-law-summary/) :

Among other things, New York:
Requires all private firearm sales, including those at a gun show, to be processed through a licensed dealer, who conducts a background check;
Requires firearms dealers to obtain a state license;
Bans most assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines;
Requires anyone purchasing or possessing a handgun to first obtain a license, after a background check, and requires the license to specify all the handguns owned by the license holder;
Requires firearm owners to report lost or stolen firearms or ammunition to law enforcement;
Prohibits the manufacture and assembly of certain “unsafe handguns”;
Regulates ammunition sales by requiring that sales be conducted through a licensed dealer and only after a background check is conducted on the purchaser. Ammunition sales must generally be conducted in person;
Requires that safe storage practices be used by a person who lives with someone who is prohibited from possessing a firearm; and
Maintains a statewide database of firearms licenses and records related to convictions, mental health, protective orders, and other factors that would affect the possession of firearms.
New York does not impose a waiting period prior to the purchase of a firearm (although it may take up to six months to obtain a license to purchase a handgun).
Local governments in New York possess authority to regulate firearms or ammunition, and local law enforcement has discretion regarding whether to issue or deny a concealed handgun permit.
In 2010 (the last year for which data is available), New York had the fourth lowest number of gun deaths per capita among the states. Guns originally purchased in New York are recovered after being used in crimes in other states at the second lowest rate per capita among the states, according to data published by Mayors Against Illegal Guns. In fact, New York exports crime guns at a rate less than one-sixth the national average. New York imports crime guns from other states at seven times the rate it exports such guns. This means that, unlike states with weaker gun laws, New York is not a common source of crime guns used in other states.

Let's not turn this into a debate on guns, there is JB for that.

[Jabawocky]

The TSA is a JOKE, from start to finish.

There are far too many of them standing around bored :mad: , thus no security value. The collective IQ of the masses barely rates that of one decent security guard.

I have carried by accident excessive liquid contents in my cary on, Duty free from an inbound sector, which should have been put in checked luggage, but I forgot. Straight through. Not even a question asked. And not just once.

Take a box of aviation spark plugs though…. :ugh:

But it gets better. My wife and daughter managed to end up with each others passport. One gets through The other does not. You should have seen the distress when my daughter at my direction was asked to come backwards through the system to fix the stuff up. The TSA were like "deer in headlights" at first but I had the deal done before they could stop me. And they were never going to stop me either. MORONS!!

So ask yourself how the passports were swapped…….yep the TSA The moron doing the pre screening, as my caught was with my wife at that point and our son with me.

I could go on and on…….and I am an Aussie that does only an average of 5-6 sectors a year in the USA, some years less.

I feel for the locals.

It is a gross waste of time money and agro and could be replaced very easily with something effective for a fraction of the cost….if the government allowed some intelligent folk to design a way.

Sadly after this revelation, the terrorist idiots who are all of a sudden rising out of their holes at the moment, now have a much better idea of how to bypass the TSA. I bet there are at least 100 employees(airline and TSA) in the USA already with strong IS sympathies. They are just as likely to be motivated to action as anyone of the idiots in France lately.

Time to rethink how we do security.

[Beausoleil]

I fly through the USA a lot and so far have never found TSA people anything other than careful, calm and courteous.

I do see a lot of pompous travellers though.

[Jabawocky]

Yeah….to be fair there have been plenty of polite and nice folk too, but surrounded by a lot of "not so effective" folk doing a job that is not providing the outcome we expect it to.

Heck, I have seen it here in Australia first hand. They (security providers) are no better here if that matters.

[Airbubba]

Looks like the feds are now busting the feds on the ATL-LGA route:

FAA Employee Arrested After Flying With Gun in Carry-On

FAA security inspector arrested after flying from Atlanta to New York with gun in carry-on

The Associated Press

ATLANTA Jan 16, 2015, 7:36 PM ET

A Federal Aviation Administration employee is under investigation after flying from Atlanta to New York with a gun in his carry-on.

Transportation Security Administration officials said in a statement Friday that the Atlanta-based FAA safety inspector was arrested at LaGuardia Airport after a gun was found during a security check.

Authorities say the employee on Tuesday used a badge to gain access to a secure area of Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport and bypassed TSA screening. FAA spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said in a statement that the agency has ordered the suspension of the program allowing safety inspectors to bypass security screening.

The arrest comes less than a month after investigators uncovered a gun-smuggling scheme involving current and former airline employees and planes flying from Atlanta to New York. Authorities pledged stricter employee screening after the operation was uncovered.


FAA Employee Arrested After Flying With Gun in Carry-On - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/faa-employee-arrested-flying-gun-carry-28285994)

[Interflug]

Why do people wonder if it makes sense to smuggle guns from Atlanta to New York on a plane? Nobody said these guns intended final destination was New York?
The statement reads that the guns were handed over airside at the departure airport. These guns could then have gone anywhere on the planet, only in transit in a New York airport without further security checks.

[Vulcancruiser]

In the end you have to trust somebody to get the job done. For years the unscreened employees of the USA have done a fine job with almost zero problems. Now that we have the hype of big government we will spend billions to find that "perfect security" will remain a myth. Security is an illusion.

[gtf]

But in US airport workers are not screened?
Mind boggling...
... is that instead of demanding screening for all, other industry professionals who have to be screened express outrage and demand exemption too because they wear a uniform (no, not TSA).

[20driver]

The guns were being sold in New York. As a part of a sting by NYPD they were watching these guys. What they could not figure out was how the guns were getting to New York. The police figured they were being driven up I-95 by a courier. Eventually the penny dropped when they realized the guy worked for Delta and was carrying the iron himself.
If it was not for the NYPD this would never have come to light. It was not the TSA or anything to do with the airlines that busted the guy(s).

[twochai]

CAVOK, you have that exactly right!
The dog and pony show at all airports except Ben Gurion is just that! The Isralis are interested in you, not particularly in what you're carrying. The results speak for themselves. :ok:

Security is an illusion

Remember the Maginot Line - oh, but that's just boring history!