Apple Hamsterwheel

[Saab Dastard]

This thread is for the perennial Apple arguments that occur with wearying and pointless regularity.

I suspect that I won't need to make it a sticky.

Apologies to JosuaNkomo for using his post as the starter for 10...

SD

[JosuaNkomo]

"The closed garden of Apple world, iTunes App store"

Discuss

[mixture]

" The closed garden of Apple world, iTunes App store".

Give it a rest ! :rolleyes:

Just believe me when I say you're making mountains out of molehills on that. Its a myth, a misunderstanding.

Anybody can write Apps an put them up on the App store. Its not a closed garden.

And when you take a minute to bother to understand the security architecture of the iPhone/iPad devices, you will understand and appreciate why Apple hosts software on the App Store !

Don't go bashing the competition unless you have a thorough technical understanding of what you're talking about !

[JosuaNkomo]

Gee mixture look what I just learned.

" Using an open platform a developer could add features or functionality that the platform vendor had not completed or had not conceived of. An open platform allows the developer to change existing functionality, as the specifications are publicly available open standards."

" A closed platform, walled garden or closed ecosystem is a software system where the carrier or service provider has control over applications, content, and media, and restricts convenient access to non-approved applications or content. This is in contrast to an open platform, where consumers have unrestricted access to applications, content, and much more."

Apple iOS and other mobile devices, which are restricted to running pre-approved applications from a digital distribution service are examples of a closed platform.

Now as a simple user of a product I really could not give a rats arse about the security architecture of the device I use as long as long as I am reasonable confident that my browsing and purchasing habits don't compromise my internet security.

You strike me as having a " Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned " mentality when it comes to Apple products.

PS. I don't believe I was bashing the opposition at all and my lack of " technical " understanding should not preclude me from my opinion on using a device.

[mixture]

Apple iOS and other mobile devices, which are restricted to running pre-approved applications from a digital distribution service are examples of a closed platform.

As I already told you.

Anybody can write an App and put it on the App Store.

Therefore by its very definition it is not a closed platform. In the same way as Android and Microsoft, Apple provide developer APIs and its up to the developers to write the code.

The approval process is pretty much entirely a security process in order to ensure, for example, that :
- Apps do not attempt to run security exploits on the devices
- Apps do not attempt to claim more privileges than they formally declare (e.g. developer uses microphone but does not declare this using the API interface ... Apple are strong on privacy and make it mandatory that stuff like microphones and camera use requires user permission and hence developers have to code stuff accordingly in order to ensure users are given a chance to explicitly authorise access)

The other smaller element of the approval process covers blatantly obvious common sense stuff that any good developer should cover by default (e.g. no buggy crashing apps).

Given the amount of time, effort and money that goes into writing a quality App for a device, the Apple approval process is quite frankly a very minor hoop to go through. Which is why you are making mountains out of molehills. Any competent and experienced programmer won't have any problems getting their App approved.

[FlightDetent]

BgB: I cannot concur. MX only fights the myth of AppStore being a closed garden, which it really is not.

FD

[le Pingouin]

It's a walled garden in the sense that you can't just grab any old software from any old source and install it, and that Apple can pull an app if they feel the need. The wall is pretty low but it's there.

Is this a good thing? That's the real argument. For the vast majority of users the answer would have to be yes because they're downloading software from a trusted source. It doesn't eliminate the risk of malware entirely but is shed load better than the roulette of downloading from whatever random site you find with Google as for Windows.

[Keef]

There is an App that I use often. It's called "WiFiFoFum": it's a WiFi scanner - it checks all the WiFi channels to see which are in use. It's essential when troubleshooting misbehaving WiFi installations, to find a clear piece of spectrum.

It was available from the App Store until a couple of years (or so) ago. Then it was pulled, and soon after that the (paid for) copy on my iPhone was deleted (by Apple, I assume, because I certainly didn't). I contacted the developer, and got a standard reply that Apple had pulled it because it "contravened their policy". It was then offered on Cydia, so I jailbroke my iPhone and reinstalled it. It still works well. It means I can't update to the latest iOS until that's been jailbroken, but with all the problems recently that is probably a good thing.

Recently, another App was launched on the Apple Store, also called WiFiFoFum, which does something completely different. Sneaky, I thought.

If it's not a closed garden, it's one with a strict head gardener who won't allow just anything on his patch.

[jimjim1]

"Anybody can write an App and put it on the App Store."

As long as that anybody has an Apple Macintosh computer, can be bothered to learn Objective C and is willing to pay the $99 dollar annual iOS Developer Program fee.


Android has lower barriers to entry. Any old PC. Job done.

[mixture]

As long as that anybody has an Apple Macintosh computer, can be bothered to learn Objective C and is willing to pay the $99 dollar annual iOS Developer Program fee.

Nonsense. :rolleyes::ugh:

(a) Most decent programmers will already know C/C++ .... Objective C is not a major stretch, its a strict superset of C !
(b) It is possible to use C/C++ for the back-end of a program and Objective C for the User Interface only.
(c) Objective C has many benefits (e.g. memory management ... a traditional thorn in the side of many a developer ! )
(d) Swift is even easier to use than Objective C for the first-time newbie programmers
(e) In the grand scheme of things, given the time, effort and money that goes into developing apps $99 is a walk in the park. And for the majority of developers is nothing but a minor business expense.
(f) Nothing stopping you writing Objective C source code on Windows ! You only need XCode for compiling and signing.

Android has lower barriers to entry.

Mountains out of molehills. Barriers to entry are NOT high with Apple.

[ShyTorque]

Octane, I sincerely hope that somewhere in this largely irrelevant soap box standing, arm waving argument, there is some snippet that helps answer your question, which you appear to have asked in all innocence.

I once asked for assistance on this forum about a computer issue. I never bother now because the threads always seem to get hijacked by an Apple salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturer's product.

:rolleyes:

[JosuaNkomo]

Agreed. Mixture WTF ? As my parting shot this is from the Guardian Newspaper.


Digital rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation’s new app will only be available for Android smartphones, in protest at the terms of Apple’s developer agreement for app makers.
The EFF Alerts app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.eff.actioncenter) will deliver news on its campaigns, and encourage people to “take action” accordingly, for example by sharing details on social networks or emailing politicians about specific policies.
“Sadly, though, we had to leave out Apple devices and the folks who use them. Why? Because we could not agree to the outrageous terms in Apple’s Developer Agreement and Apple’s DRM requirements,” wrote EFF intellectual property director Corynne McSherry (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/12/sorry-iphone-users-apples-dev-agreement-means-no-eff-mobile-app-iphone).


“As we have been saying for years now, the Developer Agreement is bad for developers and users alike,” she continued, in a blog post outlining a few of the terms that the EFF disagrees with.


They include Apple’s bar on developers making public statements about the terms; its ban on reverse engineering or helping others reverse engineer iOS or its software development kit; its requirement that apps developed using that SDK be distributed through the App Store only; and clauses stressing that Apple (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/apple) must approve any bug fixes or security releases, and can remotely disable apps at any time.


McSherry added that the final straw for the EFF was the requirement to include digital rights management (DRM) in its iPhone (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/iphone) app.
“Lots of developers hold their nose and sign the agreement despite these onerous conditions, and that’s understandable. The Apple App store is a huge market and hard to ignore if you want your business to succeed.
And sometimes, developers have to weigh these onerous restrictions against not just their ability to survive financially, but also their ability to reach and protect users from snooping and censorship.”
McSherry is right about the “lots” – Apple had more than 9m registered developers for its Mac and iOS (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/ios) platforms by June 2014, according to figures shared by chief executive Tim Cook during his keynote at the company’s WWDC show.




By September, there were 1.3m apps available on iOS’ App Store. Apple has also regularly published details of its payouts to iOS developers: more than $20bn by July 2014 (http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/22/apple-has-paid-20-billion-to-ios-devs-half-of-it-in-the-past-year/), with iOS users spending more than $10bn on apps and in-app purchases in 2013 alone.


However, as Apple enters 2015, it is facing more public criticism of its policies, not just from the EFF, but from some iOS developers too.


Influential developer Marco Arment made headlines earlier this month with a blog post pointing to “the rapid decline of Apple’s software” (http://www.marco.org/2015/01/04/apple-lost-functional-high-ground), although he later criticised journalists (http://www.marco.org/2015/01/05/popular-for-a-day) for taking his harsher words out of context from the piece.Meanwhile, developers Cromulent Labs (https://cromulentlabs.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/launcher-followup-and-thoughts-on-the-app-store-review-system/) and Panic (http://www.panic.com/blog/transmit-ios-1-1-1/) both went public in December over approval issues with features in their iOS apps, sparking wider discussion about how Apple enforces its App Store policies.This debate will continue in 2015, with the EFF keen to widen it to pinpoint the individual clauses that it thinks are infringing developers’ digital rights.

[mixture]

Criticism of Apple products is fine.

Apple bashing, i.e groundless and blatantly incorrect criticism of Apple products is not.

There is a difference.

There are a number of people here on PPRuNe who take much delight in simply bashing Apple because its the fashionable thing to do.

Of course, I would rather you don't bother criticising other products (irrespective of manaufacturer) and just get on with using the product you personally prefer .... but even that seems to be too much of an ask for some poeple !

[ExXB]

I don't really care what you guys want to call it. I am happy being in Apple's garden. I can let them worry about the black-hats that are lurking out there.

Since moving to IOS X a decade or so ago, I've never had a virus, a Trojan, or any other Malware. Yes, I realise Apple is not perfect and sh*t could happen one day, but it certainly won't happen everyday/week/month. I am cautious but am happy that Apple does the heavy lifting for me.

So I miss out on some Apps, or some features. It's worth it.

Not everyone will agree with me, but that's OK - I won't try and change your mind.

[Booglebox]

Top marks SD for putting this in one place :}

Relevant news: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/12/sorry-iphone-users-apples-dev-agreement-means-no-eff-mobile-app-iphone

[cattletruck]

Adobe have a software tool (can't remember the name) that lets you convert an Android app into an Apple app and vicy-vercy. So what's the big deal.

Never really understood these hardcore us/them arguments. Apple have the best end-user interface by far, and Linux has the most versatile server platform by far, whereas Microsoft seem to be lost in the plot someplace inbetween.

Learn to use and appreciate all three for what they are good at and you will be better off.

[SpringHeeledJack]

As a non computer savvy person, the whole Apple experience is and has been a pleasure. The very odd malfunction is quickly resolved, usually by a restart in most cases, virus' as common as unicorn poo and most functions instinctive. For those who have a long and competent history of computing it most likely is too restrictive and vanilla. I'm happy that Apple are controlling the flow of 'things' into the system, even if it restricts great apps from being released. It's not as if there's a shortage of apps….

SHJ

[Nige321]

Googls's Android might be an 'open' architecture but their business model makes Apple's look like a paragon of virtue.

Google exists to collect data on you and your lifestyle, and sell it - the whole business revolves round advertising.

Apple exists to make great products AND yes, make a profit. It's that simple. Cheesy? Yes, but that's it.

Who was it who said "with Google, you aren't the customer, you're the product"?

If you don't like Apple's business model, products, prices, OSX, iOS or any other part of them, DON'T BUY THEM!:ugh:


I once asked for assistance on this forum about a computer issue. I never bother now because the threads always seem to get hijacked by an Apple salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturer's product.

Funny, the OP appears to be an Android salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturers product...

on a PC or Mac or Linux box I can write code to shut it down, change the screen resolution, change the volume, change what the hardware buttons do, etc. etc.

An excellent example of why Apple's iOS has made huge inroads into many corporate and vertical markets, while Android hasn't...

The walled garden was adopted by Apple because, traditionally, applications for mobile devices were expensive, difficult to find, insecure and generally of poor quality. Apple wanted an environment where applications were easy to find, easy to purchase, easy to install and showcased the device. In order to combat security problems and increase buyer confidence, Apple chose a curated store. By definition therefore, Apple's approach is about control.

However, the restrictions on marking memory as executable (thus preventing JIT or compilers from working), is purely a security issue. The point is to try and prevent a third-party from finding and exploiting security holes in apps that will allow unfettered native code execution. And, you'll notice that the combination of a walled garden and various security mechanisms have resulted in a much, much, much more secure experience for iOS devices then for Android devices.

[ShyTorque]

Quote:
Funny, the OP appears to be an Android salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturers product...

This is a merged thread. The OP of the one I replied to was someone called "Octane".

He asked for comments about the use of a particular windows based device. As often happens, replies were about the superiority of Apple.

[mixture]

If you don't like Apple's business model, products, prices, OSX, iOS or any other part of them, DON'T BUY THEM!

:D

Yup, fundamentally that's the exact point I'm trying to make.

Its a highly competitive market, there's Apple, Android and Microsoft all vying for attention from the same human beings.

So, as the old saying goes .... you pays your money and you takes your choice.

There is absolutely no need to then go around bashing the competition based on personal opinions that are more often than not complete codswallop bull excrement !

People should just shut up and go enjoy their new purchases instead rather than engage in groundless and blatantly incorrect criticism of the competitive product !

[le Pingouin]

There's absolutely no need for bashing the individual concerned over the head with words like this "Don't go bashing the competition unless you have a thorough technical understanding of what you're talking about ", particularly when it's just one sentence and is clearly an honestly held opinion, however misguided. You're the one making an Apple hate mountain out of single comment molehill.

[jimjim1]

If you don't like Apple's business model, products, prices, OSX, iOS or any other part of them, DON'T BUY THEM! That is good advice. I have been adhering to that model for over 30 years and have never so succumbed.

I do like the iPod's playback user interface which is a work of genius. Shame about the iTunes rubbish which spoils the whole party.

I was given an old (when I got it) iPod Shuffle [1st generation] and I never travel without it. I just wish I could simply use a Windows Explorer (was File Manager before Bill demanded that everything should be renamed every few years - grrr) type of interface to copy my music on and off of it as opposed to the incomprehensible[1] iTunes.

[1] Incomprehensible that is to someone who has written computer programs in - Fortran, Z80 machine code with pencil and paper (in hex out of the Z80 programmer's reference manual), BBC Basic, 6502 assembler, 8086 assembler, Z80 assembler, MS DOS system calls, C, Turbo Pascals various, C pre-processor, dBase III (you know, the second one:-), unix shell script stuff, MS Excel macros, MS Access, Perl. In short whatever is NECESSARY. iTunes is NOT necessary (for the non-purchaser of Apple's finest "goodies") and that is I suspect what makes it so damn frustrating.

Happy New Year.

[Ancient Observer]

Maybe Apple could launch an "itunes light" as an additional programme for folk like jimjim and I.

They would have to promise not to change the user interface for 10 years. Wot I would see today would be exactly the same in 2025.

One of the bad things about itunes is that each new release means that stuff I learnt in the past just doesn't work, and that finding stuff that I used to be able to find gets more complex.

As jimjim says, some Apple user interfaces are brilliant. Please stop tinkering with them.

PS. After 1 prog to do std deviations and means written in Basic in 1974 I decided that puter coding was not my thing.

[mixture]

LOL Spoken like a true Apple foamer.

:mad: off Boogle.

Of course an old mac is perfectly fine if all you do is send emails and browse the web.

But I don't. There's no way I could do what I do now with an older mac from 2009.

AND THAT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH APPLE ... IT IS TO DO WITH INTEL AND THE IMPROVEMENTS THEY HAVE MADE IN THEIR PROCESSORS, THE TECHNOLOGY SIMPLY DID NOT EXIST IN 2009 !!!! Do I really have to spell it out to you ?

So seriously, quit your stupid Apple bashing.

[mixture]

I suspect that my needs are considerably more needy than yours. (except that I remember you posting about running local VMs- that's mostly stupid and you should take that to the cloud / your server room

I think that demonstrates the pure Apple bashing nonsense in your arguments.

You've no idea what I do on my machines, and yet you take it upon yourself to tell me that your needs are more needy than mine, and that what I'm using my laptop for is stupid.

Go away Booglebox, go hang out on a Windows or Linux fanboi website where your unsubstantiated Apple bashing crap belongs. There's no place for it here.

[Mac the Knife]

It is worth remembering that OSX is just BSD (Mach/XNU kernel) in a pretty dress.

And BSD has serious street cred (the extraordinary thing about the tangled mess that is Windows is that with a minimum of care-and-feeding it is surprisingly stable).

Mac

:cool:

[I do have one quarrel with Yosemite and that is the problem with non-Apple aftermarket SSDs - a difficulty easily fixable by Apple yet who (so far) refuse to do so]

:ooh:

[Booglebox]

It is worth remembering that OSX is just BSD (Mach/XNU kernel) in a pretty dress.

And BSD has serious street cred (the extraordinary thing about the tangled mess that is Windows is that with a minimum of care-and-feeding it is surprisingly stable

Very true.
However, I would argue that Windows by itself, since XP, is pretty much totally stable. The problem is 3rd party software... now, you may ask, what good is an OS that becomes crappy when you run 3rd party software?... :hmm:

unsubstantiated Apple bashing crap

I did my very best to try and substantiate it, but you've taken a single speculation that I made and based your rebuttal on it, which really proves that you have nothing to actually reply with, as you didn't even attempt to address my other points. Did I hit a little too close to home? :E

By the way, and at the risk of "protesting too much", I'm not really an "apple-basher" in the conventional sense. I think the new Macbook that was unveiled yesterday is nothing short of a work of art. It is a flawless execution of a very sound concept. In particular, haptic feedback on a touchpad is going to be the start of a new trend I think, and USB-C too for similar ultra-ultraportable devices.
Would I buy one? ...probably not. Nevertheless, I almost wish my needs are different, as it's that cool, and it's definitely the right choice for many people. If it fits your needs, you are not stupid to buy one.
As it has no moving parts (about time the PC industry followed suit!) I bet it will last for a good while too.

The iWatch is also extremely cool and I may get one when I have enough $ to spare - let's hope that most of it works with non-Apple devices though (I note that MS are adult enough to make their Band work with Android and iOS too).

There is no doubt that Apple not only make very cool things, but also they are genuinely innovative trend-setters, for the greater good of the whole tech industry.

Now will you please stop calling me an "apple-basher"? :8

[India Four Two]

I do have one quarrel with Yosemite and that is the problem with non-Apple aftermarket SSDs

Mac the Knife,

That might account for why my Yosemite upgrade didn't work! :ugh:

Can you point me to a discussion of the issue and if there is anyway around it?

[Mac the Knife]

"OS X Yosemite has added yet another wrinkle for third-party SSD users, as the new kext signing security measure included in the new operating system means that Yosemite systems will refuse to load modified drivers such as those used by TRIM-enabling software."

Google "Yosemite non-Apple SSD"

see - https://www.cindori.org/trim-enabler-and-yosemite/

Disabling kext-signing globally in your NVRAM/PRAM seems to be the only solution. This is not optimal but we most of us got on quite well without kext-signing in Mavericks, so it ain't fatal. Just remember that resetting NVRAM/PRAM will re-enable kext-signing and initially you won't be able to boot until you have re-disabled it.

I think Apple are very unlikely to remedy this - it isn't their style.

Mac (who added a Samsung Pro SSD to his MacMini and can't be arsed to go through the relatively simple contortions necessary to upgrade to to Yosemite)

:cool:

[mixture]

I think Apple are very unlikely to remedy this - it isn't their style.

What's your name ? Booglebox ? :ugh:

From the link you provided....

Kext signing basically works by checking if all the drivers in the system are unaltered by a third party, or approved by Apple. If they have been modified, Yosemite will no longer load the driver.


Quite frankly, given the amount of damage and mischief dodgy kernel level drivers can do to a system, I think its a good thing that Apple requires signed drivers.

No doubt, just like anything, you can sign your drivers .... so its no big deal, just the hard drive manufacturers are too lazy to perform the 5 second process necessary to sign drivers (assuming they can be bothered to distribute drivers for OS X in the first place).

[Booglebox]

The real question is: why hasn't Apple baked TRIM into the OS, like MS did with Win7 in 2009?... :E

Still radio silence from my worthy adversary Mix apart from the occasional off-topic jab, therefore I presume that I have won this round :ok:

[mixture]

This message is hidden because Booglebox is on your ignore list

And quite frankly, you can stay there indefinitely.

Pure bliss. No more having to read inane Apple-bashing from the troll known as Booglebox. :cool:

[mixture]

To quote a couple of posts from this Slashdot discussion (Apple Disables Trim Support On 3rd Party SSDs In OS X - Slashdot (http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/11/16/1749220/apple-disables-trim-support-on-3rd-party-ssds-in-os-x))

by m.dillon (147925) on Sunday November 16, 2014 @02:24PM (#48397343)
TRIM has numerous problems, not the least of which being drives and/or filesystems which do not implement it properly. Because its use and effects can be seriously non-deterministic (even in a proper implementation), any bug in the drive firmware OR the filesystem in the use of TRIM can create serious corruption issues down the line when the drive actually decides to blow away some of the trimmed sectors. The TRIM command was badly conceived from the get-go.

by ericdano (113424) on Sunday November 16, 2014 @03:42PM (#48397795)
The latest episode of ATP, they heard from an Apple Engineer that Apple disables it because most makes of SSD are very inconsistent on how the TRIM command is executed. And Apple being Apple, they don't particularly want to try every SSD known to man to "support" them.


by TheRaven64 (641858) on Sunday November 16, 2014 @07:12PM (#48398905)
The reason that Apple disabled this is that a lot of SSDs have really buggy TRIM implementations. This observation wasn't unique to Apple: Microsoft and the Linux kernel defaulted to TRIM being off until quite recently. Apple could afford to turn it on for their own SSDs because they did extensive compatibility testing of those before shipping them.

Now, it doesn't really make sense, but enabling it automatically would likely burn some users, and bug reports about data loss lead to a lot more anger than bug reports about lower performance.

by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 16, 2014 @02:18PM (#48397305)

The Linux kernel, for instance, keeps a blacklist for this issue instead — but one that (commonly) only grows when the devs get reports from somebody who already suffered data loss, and then it takes ages for the new kernel to be used widely in the wild.




In particular, I'd like to make sure you read the phrase that read "Microsoft and the Linux kernel defaulted to TRIM being off until quite recently. " :)


So please guys, less nonsense Apple bashing and more thinking about the perfectly valid technical reasons why Apple might have done what they did !

[mixture]

I respond to your arguments in a restrained and reasonable way

By continuing your Apple bashing ?

instead of continuing the debate

I was trying to debate with you, but each reply you provided just brought more anti-Apple nonsense.

I'm more than willing to listen and discuss both sides of the Apple argument. But if you're going to bring something anti-Apple to the table, you'd better make sure its well thought out, supported by facts and not a half-hearted attempt at disguised Apple bashing.

But otherwise, as I've said many times before... I don't care if people hate Apple, think they're the devil and won't touch their products. But do us a favour and keep it to yourself ...don't jump on the Apple bashing bandwagon and spread unsubstatiated FUD.

Remind me ... who wrote ....


I suspect that my needs are considerably more needy than yours. (except that I remember you posting about running local VMs- that's mostly stupid and you should take that to the cloud / your server room

Oh yeah, that's right .... YOU !

You were on my Ignore List before, I took you off after some time. But now I'm left thinking its probably best to leave you on there ad-infinitum. I would much rather you were not, as the reason I took you off was after reading a number of good contributions from you.

[terrain safe]

Quick story.

Bought my Daughter an iPhone 5S for Christmas as I'm a sucker. Last week started to lock up with a blue screen and not able to reboot. Went to Apple store in Cambridge, as I bought it from them, but had to wait half an hour to get an appointment at the 'Genius' bar. Anyway, they got it going again by making it download IOS again and after a while phone was fixed.

Cue Saturday. Phone locks up again at least 5 or 6 times, but we manage to get it going each time but obviously broken. Decide to go to store on Sunday, so arrive early at 1030 as they don't open until 11. Second person in the queue. Told I have to make an appointment and the earliest is at 12. Really hacked off as it obviously needs replacing. Anyway back at heaving shop at 12 and after about 30 seconds with the phone the helper agrees to change it and within about 15 mins I am walking out with a new phone for my daughter. All good yes?

No.

If I have a device from any other store, and I go back with a problem, I am seen as soon as possible. John Lewis, Pc World and any other store would not do this. Why did Apple. Note the used of did. I was sent a 'how was your experience today?' questionnaire. So I complained about the system.

I was phoned today by the store manager. He apologised and said that I wasn't a lone voice in the UK or indeed worldwide. And Apple are changing the system. So if you walk in with a broken device you should be seen quicker. So a slight well done Apple for realising that treating people in this manner is unacceptable. The only reasons I could see why they did were a need to keep costs low by employing less staff (although there were loads around on Sunday) or do they get a lot of machines needing support? Don't know but at least they did listen.

God that took longer than I thought. :O:O

[mixture]

Last week started to lock up with a blue screen

You sure you didn't buy a Windows phone ? I've never heard of a blue-screening iPhone. Guess there's always an opportunity for a first ! :cool:

Good to hear your feedback did the job. And good to hear Apple are making improvements to the system.

I don't think its a lot of machines needing support, its just that the same technical talent needs to wear three hats (repairs, consumer training, business training) ... as a result there's lots of demand on their time. So reviews of ways to make more efficient use of staff resources sounds like a good plan.

By the way, when it comes to iPhones, I highly recommend Apple Care. No need to visit a shop, just call them up, and a nice man from UPS turns up the next day and you swap a brand new phone for your faulty one. Not that iPhones break much, I've only had one with a fault.... but the UPS swap was a lovely experience.

I believe Apple Care now also covers accidental damage (subject to a small excess fee) .... so could be a double-win for those prone to putting phones in the washing machine.

[ExSp33db1rd]

You sure you didn't buy a Windows phone ?

???????

Wouldn't Apple staff recognise a Windows phone and shown them the door ? Why would they give an Apple phone in replacement for a competitor ?

Good ploy, I might try it ! Wonder if they'll give me an iPhone for an ancient Nokia that I have ?

[mixture]

ExSp33db1rd,

Re: ???????

Blue Screen being a type of system fault infamously associated with Microsoft Windows and its stop screen, more informally known as the Blue Screen of Death.

[Mac the Knife]

And the new MacBook Air uses Samsung SSDs

MacBook Air's superfast disk speeds come from Samsung SSDs (http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/12/macbook-air-samsung-ssd/)

Wonder who signed the kext?

Mac

:cool: