16 Year Old Aspiring Pilot

[CraviatorMike]

Hi, I am Michael. I'm a 16 year old residing in Sydney! I have an extreme aspiration for aviation, and I've been lurking for a while.

I know how hard it is to become a pilot, and how much of a brutal game this industry is. I have a plan, but I'd like to share it here first so I can get a few tips or maybe some criticism.

As I am just about to start year 11, I am also starting my flight school next week. I'm thinking of doing that for 2 years, begin my career there and once I finish Year 12, I will enrol in AAPA in Wagga. It's a Pilot Academy, and I can complete the rest of my training up there for 2 years.

I want to start my flight school now so I can gain some sort of experience and understanding of operating an aircraft and gaining basic aeronautical knowledge. What do you guys think?

[wishiwasupthere]

Finish high school, take a year off, travel the world, wake up with hangover's in strange cities, chase girls with foreign accents. You're only 16. Why the rush?

[kestrel539]

"travel the world, wake up with hangover's in strange cities, chase girls with foreign accents."
Thats what he's trying to do :)

[ChrisJ800]

Get some flying experience in and have fun. I was in the air cadets at 16 and did a couple of air experience flights and plenty of aviation lectures. Also was building radio control gliders and then got into full size gliders at 17 starting with a 1 week intro holiday course. Of course you need to fund all this. I had part time school holiday jobs to fund my flying addiction.

[LookinDown]

Hi Michael,
Although it might seem that starting your flying training as soon as possible is the quickest way to becoming a commercial pilot, this often isn't the case, especially if you plan on becoming a great commercial pilot.

The previous posters have mentioned (in one way or another!) the importance of acquiring some life experiences before starting your training. Think about professionals or people that you have met so far in your life who inspired confidence in their ability to do an excellent job, like a doctor or a teacher or a sports coach.

It wasn't so much their technical knowledge that made them a great doctor/teacher/sports coach, it was their ability to deal with and to communicate well with you and others in a whole range of situations, circumstances and challenges. These 'life skills' are gained by getting out and about and by getting involved in 'life' outside of school or educational institutions. Part time jobs, team sports, recreational activities, flying models, flying gliders (you can solo at 15), Air Cadets/Aust Air League, Scouts, voluntary community work, etc.

You may be aware of Crew Resource Management (CRM) and its importance to great pilots and to airlines. What makes up much of the skill base of CRM? The people and processing skills that you can only gain by getting out and about do!

Here is a definition of CRM from CREW RESOURCE MANAGEMENT (http://www.raes-hfg.com/reports/crm-now.htm) Worth reading the whole document and saving/book marking for later reference.

"CRM DEFINED

6. CRM encompasses a wide range of knowledge, skills and attitudes including communications, situational awareness, problem solving, decision making, and teamwork. The elements which comprise CRM are not new but have been recognised in one form or another since aviation began, usually under more general headings such as ‘Airmanship’, ‘Captaincy’, ‘Crew Co-operation’, etc. CRM can therefore be defined as a management system which makes optimum use of all available resources - equipment, procedures and people - to promote safety and enhance the efficiency of flight operations.

7. CRM is concerned not so much with the technical knowledge and skills required to fly and operate an aircraft but rather with the cognitive and interpersonal skills needed to manage the flight within an organised aviation system.

In this context, cognitive skills are defined as the mental processes used for gaining and maintaining situational awareness, for solving problems and for taking decisions. Interpersonal skills are regarded as communications and a range of behavioural activities associated with teamwork. In aviation, as in other walks of life, these skill areas often overlap with each other, and they also overlap with the technical skills required in an aviation context. "

So, it might be well worthwhile to hold off on paying big money on formal flying training just yet. After getting out and about for another year or two you will be in a much better position to both choose the best training path/organisation for yourself and also to get the most value out of that training.

Good luck with it.
LD

[KRviator]

Be careful of turning a hobby into a job. Once you actually have to do it for a living, the fun can wear off very quickly. Crappy rosters, time away from your family and the stress of moving where the work is until you get "that" job will take its' toll, not to mention the tens of thousands you'll be out of pocket for your training.


I did 6 years Army Aviation & the Air Force before realising that the rigidity of flying for a career wasn't as enjoyable as I thought it would be. I got out and began driving trains - something that I'm still doing a decade later and having a ball. But I've seen it in rail too, gunzels get a start and they're gone in a few years because they couldn't handle the shiftwork, or it isn't as fun as they thought it would be.


I never lost the flying bug have just finished building an RV-9 and now fly for fun, in essence the best of both worlds. Afterall not many A320 pilots can go for a junket up the front of a loco on their days off but I can go bore holes in the sky!


Don't be put off by my comments, but make absolutely sure it is what you want to do before you get in too deep.

[mcgrath50]

I started my flying training when I was 15/16. I wouldn't say I regret it but I wouldn't recommend it to others. One or two days a week flying is really not enough. I often had to repeat lessons as I wouldn't fly for a month. If you are only booking every Sunday for example, a couple weekends of bad weather will really slow you down. It's a waste of time and money.

If you really need to scratch the aviation itch do something cheaper like gliding or read a lot of books. Not just the theory books prescribed by courses but 'extra' ones. Build your knowledge so when you do start flying training after school you can focus on the fun and smash the theory.

The advice to travel is also very good. Once you start in the industry it's hard to take a year off. It's all about currency.

[tecman]

Mike, you've got some good advice already but perhaps I'd add that looking for an opportunity to do some flying of any sort would be a good idea. You didn't mention whether you've had any exposure to aviation and, assuming you haven't, just giving it a try out would be a useful thing to do. I've known high school aviation enthusiasts who've bailed after the Trial Instructional Flight and, conversely, people who had no aviation background who've decided that flying is definitely for them.

Acknowledging dollars are tight, why not rock up to a gliding club or one of the better RA Aus schools for a bit of fun? My own preference in the latter would be to find an outfit that does GA training as well. As others have noted, the people side of aviation is important and some involvement in the volunteer and social side of flying will stand you in good stead.

Doesn't matter whether you opt for the career in aviation, or fund your flying fix another way, the good school results in the core subjects are equally necessary. But I'm sure you already know that!

[CraviatorMike]

I'm definitely not in a rush, but I would rather learning then partying and such. Thank you all for the comments and help, but my main priority is to build a few hours and learn as much as I can while I'm young.

This is something my heart is set on, and it's not about the money. I know it can take many years to even get an interview with an airline, but I feel like I am ready to take on the challenge! Side jobs such as instructing or scenic flights is something I'd happily do to gain hours and more knowledge. I know this is all a long, long way ahead but I know the challenges I have to face.

I'm even happy that I know what I want to do as a profession, most people my age are absolutely clueless. My father is extremely supportive and is willing to pay for most of this. I'm also saving up money from a fast food store to help pay for some lessons. $9\hr isn't that bad... :(

[DeltaT]

Find a local aviation outfit to you and get a job washing their planes. Part time even. Have your eyes opened to the negativities of the industry I am sure many here would flame me for talking about. Find out for yourself what you are in for.

[Clare Prop]

My advice, read the story of the tortoise and the hare.

I didn't start until I was in my late 20s, I had to get a good career established before I could afford to fly. Won a flying scholarship which helped a lot.

I've been instructing for nearly 30 years and all the people who have "made it" have been the steady reliable plodders, and all the "hares" who thought they could find short cuts and beat the plodders have vanished without trace. Thank goodness as most of them had a horrible attitude and pushy parents :mad:

There is no rush! Don't put all your eggs in the aviation basket, at your age you should be focusing on getting the best school results that you can so you can have more choices later...uni, military, airlines, trade, all of the above, whatever.

[Boney]

All good advice here.

I was the same as you in the mid 80's. In my room studying for initial Private Pilot Licence subjects in late high school. My parents thought I was doing school work. Subsequently, my marks in yr 10 were well above average but yr 12 finals were pretty average at best.

This is something I regret to this day. Life worked out OK though, now a Captain with . . . . .?

Of course, smoking hot chicks, cars and heavy metal got in the way of school too.

Relax, concentrate on school and the things above.

Besides, it would appear that aviation industry expansion may be pretty stagnant for many years so time is on YOUR side. No expansion at the top end means not much employment opportunities all the way down the rungs of the ladder.

Boom/Bust, Short Feast/Long Famine.
Once every decade there is a reasonable amount of Pilot jobs out there for 2 or 3 years, then terrible for 5 - 10. In my opinion, 2013 was the last of these couple of good years (although this last Feast lasted fairly long). I believe we are now at the start of the next Pilot Employment Famine. Sure, there will still be jobs to be had out there but for a job on a single engine 6 seater doing joy flights, you may be competing with 10 other hopefuls instead of 3.

Good luck.

[CraviatorMike]

Thanks for the reply guys, but would it be a good idea to start my flight school now, while I'm young? Air cadet may be an option... Thoughts..?

[mcgrath50]

Thanks for the reply guys, but would it be a good idea to start my flight school now, while I'm young? Air cadet may be an option... Thoughts..?


I'd concentrate on school and extra-curricular activities for now. Flying training is like taking on an extra year 12 subject and to do it justice is very hard.

I am fairly sure if you look back in my post history about 7 years ago you'll find I started a thread very similar to you. People advised me to relax and go slow. I didn't listen. I'm not unhappy but I do look wistfully as opportunities outside of aviation I have missed.

At the end of the day it's what you will hopefully be doing for the rest of your life. Take your time and enjoy the journey.

[CISTRS]

I'm even happy that I know what I want to do as a profession, most people my age are absolutely clueless. My father is extremely supportive and is willing to pay for most of this. Sounds very much like you have a severe case of big shiny jet syndrome. Please don't go for P2F.

And beware - the job you are seeking is rapidly becoming a bottom feeder.
There are many ways of scratching your flying itch. Get a good education, life experience, a well paid and absorbing job and fly for fun.

[MelbPilot85]

The advice to travel is also very good. Once you start in the industry it's hard to take a year off. It's all about currency.

This is one of the best & most important points in this thread. Once you get into it, currency is extremely important. It will keep you flying in less than ideal (or worse) jobs just to be able to tell your next prospective employer you have done 3 takeoff and landings in the last 90 days. Taking time off also gets expensive as someone has to pay to get your ratings current again before you get flying.

This also applies to your training, as if you aren't flying a couple of times a week you won't progress as quickly, and as mentioned above, with bad weather one weekend you may get a bit rusty and before you know it you're paying to repeat the lesson.

I think some great advice has been given above. Do a TIF if you haven't already, and find a cheaper alternative - gliding, RC aircraft - to keep you interested for a year or so. Start your training only when you have the time and money to do it full time or as close to as you can.

I know what it's like to have people tell you to do something else and fly as a hobby, it happened to me as it did many others here. I also know I was never going to listen to them, and I'm glad I didn't. If you have no interest in that other job, you will always wonder "what if". The thing is you have to be prepared to roll with it, take what comes, maybe vote with your feet and move to another job, possibly overseas or somewhere you hadn't seen yourself going, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing! Also helps to have an understanding partner....

You are right that you're lucky to know what you want to do, so many people have no idea, but don't wish your life away looking forward to the next thing. Why not go out and party, make some mistakes, grab life by the balls. It's all about balance, and as fun as aviation is, there is a hell of a lot more to life.

[Greenlights]

avoid this pseudo career...
the best ?
Become engineer, make cash and fly for fun. (you'll have valuable skills).
A pilot is a pilot...the day you want to change career, you'll be stucked. (flying ILS do not make you good in any other field.)
Learn sciences, learn languages, learn management and accounting, then the world will be your playground.
After all of this, you can figure out if you want to be an airline pilot or not.
But the must is, have a back up career.
Pilot is becoming a season activity under zero contract hours.
You have been warned now.
Good luck in your choice.

[dr dre]

Craviatormike

Good luck with whatever decisions you make in your career
My first advice would be to not spend too much time on Pprune, it brings out negatively quite easily
There is no one guaranteed path to ensure a flying career, and you'll be told many conflicting pieces of advice along the way
My advice? Wait a couple of years out of high school before starting full time training. Employers would probably prefer a bit of real world experience and post high school maturity. Maybe get a FIFO or labouring job that pays well and SAVE the money. Maybe study theoretical exams in between. You'll find your career options and bank balance will look better rather than having $10'000's of dollars of debt when trying to find your first job.

avoid this pseudo career...
the best ?
Become engineer, make cash and fly for fun. (you'll have valuable skills).
A pilot is a pilot...the day you want to change career, you'll be stucked. (flying ILS do not make you good in any other field.)
Learn sciences, learn languages, learn management and accounting, then the world will be your playground.
After all of this, you can figure out if you want to be an airline pilot or not.
But the must is, have a back up career.
Pilot is becoming a season activity under zero contract hours.
You have been warned now.
Good luck in your choice.


You can google every profession for "Don't become a doctor, don't become a lawyer....." and you'll find predictions of gloom.
At the end of the day, the average salary for an airline pilot in Australia is $25000 per year higher than a civil or mechanical engineer, scientist or accountant. A more broadly defined "commercial pilot" earns more on average than an aerospace engineer.
Airline Pilot, Copilot, or Flight Engineer Salary (Australia) (http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Airline_Pilot%2c_Copilot%2c_or_Flight_Engineer/Salary)
And yes it is definitely a career that can take you around the world, and be at work less than the average person, and for the most part not take their work home with them. How many professionals these days are answering phones/doing paperwork on their "days off"?

[Pinky the pilot]

And yes it is definitely a career that can take you around the world, and be at work less than the average person, and for the most part not take their work home with them. How many professionals these days are answering phones/doing paperwork on their "days off"?


And the view from the 'office' windows can on occasion be worth more than money could possibly ever buy!:ok::ok:

As any Professional Pilot on these pages could tell you.

[Clare Prop]

^^ What dr dre said.

Would you still want to do this if you had to pay for it all yourself?

In my experience having parents pay for it all won't be really helping you in the long term. I am eternally grateful that all my flying was paid for myself (and the scholarship I worked bloody hard for) and I don't owe anyone anything.

As for school work, you should always have some back-up qualifications should something horrible happen with your medical.

[CraviatorMike]

Could you explain what a medical is to me?

[Berealgetreal]

Nobody will convince this young man to not pursue a career in aviation as no doubt his hair stands on ends when he hears the sound of a jet engine taxying onto the bay as it did and still does for me and most on this forum.

If I could have you listen to only one thing it would be to have a backup career, a trade, a degree or something. As when, in this career, it goes wrong (happens from the top of the industry to the bottom) and you find yourself on the wrong side of the fence you are completely worthless in the job market. It's an extremely risky career and one that most with young families now would advise to stay away from.

Good luck with it, be prepared to fly in the Middle East or for an Asian carrier. I'm lucky, I make good money and fly a jet with a big company so it worked out for me. For many it didn't work and most of them never recovered emotionally or financially from the dreams of being an airline pilot being crushed. As a 737 Ansett pilot told me on a cockpit visit in the early 90s "this industry chews up and spits out young bright lads like you every day". I didn't listen, maybe I got lucky.

[CraviatorMike]

Thank you so much for that reply sir, may I ask why it goes bad for most people?

[megan]

In my experience having parents pay for it all won't be really helping you in the long termDon't know why having parents pay doesn't help. I did, and the offspring had a very satisfying career, worked hard at the training and on the job when gained, and is extremely grateful to the parents for the opportunity, and to the first employer for the start, who was an absolute gem.

Craviatormike, as said previously, Pprune can be full of negativity, only you can make the decision. Each of the posters on here has travelled his/her own road, which is reflected in their opinions. It is a lottery, and not everyone gets to where they would like to be. But that happens in all professions, people come out of uni with a qualification but are unable to gain employment in their chosen field.Would you still want to do this if you had to pay for it all yourself?A story of one pilots recent journey. During year 12 the to be pilot worked three jobs to pay for the flying. Finishing school the person worked casual jobs and managed to get a bank loan to finance training, which the casual job was able to service. Networking gave an insight into the industry and where fruitful opportunities might lie. Taking the bit between the teeth, the to be pilot lobbed into town with $90 in the pocket at 11PM. Next morning started knocking on doors at the airport (having done the homework) and at 830AM had a bush job in a 210. The first the company had taken on in six months. Not interested in a shiny jet, and now has a comfortable and rewarding (both professionally and monetary) career in GA. Admittedly this person was lucky in the manner in which everything fell into place, but if you don't have a ticket in the lottery.......

My offspring had a job offer a week or two prior to taking the CPL ride. A case of being in the right place at the right time - the instructor got a phone call from an employer looking for a pilot and he put the offspring up for it. And no, it was not until much, much later that I was to meet the instructor, so absolutely no insider running for the offspring.

All I can say Craviatormike is follow your heart. Having something to fall back on as suggested by others would be nice to have in the back pocket, but then you have a problem, should you lose the coveted medical, of being in the position of trying to gain employment in that field with little to no experience and having to compete with much younger competitors.

Your call, but I wish you all the success in the world, and very much hope fortune smiles on you as much as she did on me.

[Greenlights]

You can google every profession for "Don't become a doctor, don't become a lawyer....." and you'll find predictions of gloom.
At the end of the day, the average salary for an airline pilot in Australia is $25000 per year higher than a civil or mechanical engineer, scientist or accountant. A more broadly defined "commercial pilot" earns more on average than an aerospace engineer.

Dysney world..

sure, others jobs have pros and cons , but :
as a doctor or else, generally you don't pay for work (plus I know that doctors do not struggle to find a job...).
- you need real degree not only a licence. Meaning that there are tons of young who want to be pilot...and it's not difficult to get the licence, just pay for it.
- No need to study 5 years in a harder master.
- no transferable skills... vor, ils, etc are useless once you're out of the job.
(so have a back up plan!)
-others jobs are less subject to (fuel prices, wars, crash etc) whereas airlines are very sensitive.

so we can not compare.

Outside from australia, it's not paradise. Being a pilot is more being a contractor (asia, indonesia...) I know I am under it. Plus you paid a lot to "deserve it". Great...
So the best way is to have a real job and then apply for pilot. In 2015 that's the safest option.
Many give positive things because they are pilot since a long time and have a biased view, or few years. Nowadays, things are different and worse in the near futur.

So I don't say other jobs are better, but let's be honest. Pilot is really a particular job and a way of life (not only a job actually). When you fly, you chose an airport for divert, so the same if you aim this career.

[Tankengine]

You ask about the "Medical"

All pilots do a medical exam for initial issue of a licence and an ongoing renewal every 6months, year, or 2 years depending on type of licence or age.

It is worthwhile you doing a class one medical before going very far down the flying route as some fairly minor conditions which you may not even be aware of may be an issue.

Many pilots have medical issues at some point in their life which stops them flying, sometimes permanently.

It is something to consider. It can be a great career, with drawbacks others have pointed out.

Best of luck.:)

[jmmoric]

You're 16 and about to get "young", have fun, and take it easy in school. Education is not everything, despite what they keep telling you :ok:

As mentioned earlier, fly gliders, it's not that expensive, and give you a good understanding of basic flying, and you can solo at a young age. The engine is just a noisy, shaky, polluting thingy in the front that lets you go a little further until you're in a glider again ;)

[Berealgetreal]

You ask about what goes wrong for most. Well from my observation, based on pure numbers, it was not leaving home, capital city or not sticking with it no matter how hard it got. Outside of this group is a group that fate decides it will play a trick on. It's the most random thing ever. It ranges from the wrong partner early in the career to a wrong decision on the job. This is an unforgiving, high stakes, high pressure industry so ignore those that pretend otherwise.

I don't want to harp on the negatives, you're 16 and need to enjoy life this is absolutely the most important thing. Doing what normal 16 year olds do will give you balance and that is what you will need no matter what career you choose. Young people that try to live ahead of their time end up trying to recreate their youth. This happened to a mate of mine and it didn't end well. Right now you need to go to those high school parties and have fun.

I flicked the switch at the end of schoolies (yes they had it back then). That switch never got turned off. I knew inside me when the time had come to get serious. This might be after uni for you or after you've worked for a few years it's up to you.

I had a think last night about what I wrote and I concluded that whilst I often recently wished I had taken another path I remembered the reason I didn't. I was 18 and I decided that I didn't want to be 45 and look back and say "gee I wish I gave it a go". At that point I decided that I would NEVER give up no matter what.

So it worked and I'm still proud of my job, my achievements and am moved when I hear my jet taxiing onto the bay. I think I was lucky but at the same time put everything I had into it. It took me years, there was no dream run.

For the record it's not a career I would like my children to take up. Its my opinion that I'll be the last generation of pilots that can regard it as an attractive career.

Good Luck.