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wiltshireman
31st Dec 2014, 14:46
Hello Campers!

I have, for the last 3 years, been lecturing on cruise ships about Aviation and Military history. I was astonished to see a fellow Lecturer still wearing a uniform and, worse still, making lewd innuendos about Cabin Crew. He also made what I would think are libellous remarks about Ryanair and Easy Jet, accompanied by tasteful pictures of O'Leary.

Now, we may have opinions on these operators but surely we keep them to ourselves and don't air them in public? It could easily affect how our wonderful profession is viewed by the SLF. Or am I being too prickly?

Yours in a crop circle! (A bit late, but you know what I mean!)

Shaggy Sheep Driver
31st Dec 2014, 16:08
My mate, when he retired, gave his BA captain's uniform to a friend to use in amateur dramatics productions.

Someone told me they were on a cruise and an ex-Concorde cabin crew member was giving a presentation which included a recollection of asking Cilla Black what she wanted to drink. Her partner Bobby intervened, saying "never ever talk to miss Black directly. Speak to me, and I will ask her and then tell you what to serve her".

"OK", said the crew member. "I know she can't sing. Didn't know she can't talk either"!

airship
31st Dec 2014, 17:06
I have, for the last 3 years, been lecturing on cruise ships about Aviation and Military history...
Why would anyone go on a 'cruise' to learn anything worthwhile about aviation per se (an exception might be seaplanes etc.)?! :confused:

Let me take a guess: you're one of those "lecturer-dancers" who regularly receive subsidised cruises offers 'to entertain' unaccompanied and mostly elderly passengers on the dance floors 4-8h/day...? I understand that some of you even manage to find new (often wealthy) partners... :E

As for informal and/or (re)use of uniforms after leaving aviation (say on ships): Shirley, an important point must be that you do not disappoint the passengers. Ensuring you do your very best to uphold the aviation company's reputation for exemplary performance under all conditions especially and particularly when "out of (any) uniform". I can only imagine how distressing it might be 'flying' on VFR especially when the runway has not been properly-maintained in a while or in 'hot and high' conditions and 'very dry'. But hopefully you're IFR-rated. If you get my drift... :ok:

G-CPTN
31st Dec 2014, 17:11
you're one of those "lecturer-dancers" who regularly receive subsidised cruises offers 'to entertain' unaccompanied and mostly elderly passengers on the dance floors 4-8h/day...?
Like Jimmy Savile?

(to be fair, there are a lot more worthy people who accept offers to 'lecture' on cruise ships)

airship
31st Dec 2014, 17:30
G-CPTN, I wonder if there's a 'cruise-ship market' for lecturing on say cars in general: the history of car-manufacturing, design, safety and maintenance etc.? Presumably, there's adequate space available aboard today's gigantic cruise-ships for more than just a few old bangers...?! :8

obgraham
31st Dec 2014, 17:54
Having been on a number of cruises, I can tell you there is great interest in all sorts of topics for lecturers. The passengers are largely "mature", and show interest in all kinds of things -- industrial, mechanical, historical, etc.

One guy did 4 talks on the technologies used in the CSI TV shows. Great stuff.

I suspect if the topic was the goings-on in the rap music scene, the turnout would be minuscule.

chinook240
31st Dec 2014, 18:34
Recently went on the ill-fated "Cunard Cruise to Nowhere", we were fortunate enough to have talks by Martin Bell and a former Reds team manager. Both were very interesting, the Reds manager spoke on display history and Operation Chastise. He didn't wear his red flying suit!

airship
31st Dec 2014, 18:41
obgraham, did you cruise with your wife? And did you bother to dance with her...?! :E

Gordy
31st Dec 2014, 18:45
I already bought my "retirement stripes"

http://www.pilotshop.com/catalog/graphics/1/14-02241.jpg

GrumpyOldFart
31st Dec 2014, 19:12
Five stripes? That's waaaay above an airline captain - that's a Fire Chief!

:)

VP959
31st Dec 2014, 19:31
Bang out of order in my book, as is the use of former ranks as titles post-retirement (despite the fact that technically some are allowed, along with caveats).

I will admit to using some of my flying kit for practical reasons post-retirement, but stripped of all badges, but that was mainly for practicality and safety (fire resistance and warmth, in an unheated single seat cockpit!).

I know a chap who was kicked off a well-known and highly regarded course, yet even after having left the employment of the crown he still insisted on wearing his course patch on his grow bag, along with a host of other badges. To my mind, wearing any former badges of rank/achievement is a bit off, but wearing a patch that alludes that one has graduated from a world famous course is bang out of order.

Sadly, there are a lot of mitty's out there who do this to boost their feeble egos.

Years ago I worked with a retired Sqn Ldr in a civvy job as an RO, who insisted on being referred to by his rank at all times. I used to deliberately piss him off by always referring to him as "Sqn Ldr XXX, Retired, VR". It used to wind him up no end, but there was nothing he could do about it.

Fat Magpie
31st Dec 2014, 19:38
On the Cilla Black tale she has an well deserved reputation as being a stuck up cow. For one with so little talent to be up here own ass I really do hope the BA steward/stewardess gave her that line.

For reference the two guys who do the kids TV show the chuckle brothers are some of the nicest people you could meet, ask them about working with Cilla and the word C**T would be the reply.

mixture
31st Dec 2014, 21:27
the two guys who do the kids TV show the chuckle brothers are some of the nicest people you could meet

Kids shows ? Pah ! They're into rap these days..... :}

EBtd3H3Qdi8

obgraham
31st Dec 2014, 23:25
Airship, the last cruise we were on, an 11 day Trans-Atlantic, was a Glen Miller Band cruise. I like all sorts of music. I can't however, dance for sh!te! Fortunately there were a good number of the "hosts" along!

The talks were good.

radeng
31st Dec 2014, 23:35
An ex BA (may have been BOAC, it was so long ago) captain I knew used the hat as a sun hat when on the canal, and the trousers and jacket (less braid) for painting and gardening. Eventually, with braid back on when the clothes had REALLY got past it, for the guy on the local village green November 5th bonfire....He said it was only fitting for an airliner captain to get burnt, even if in effigy!

ExSp33db1rd
1st Jan 2015, 01:57
Sorry for the repeat, but it seems apposite here - A psychiatrist died and on reaching the Pearly Gates St. Peter welcomed him aboard, saying .. Glad you've come, we're having a little trouble with God, he thinks he's a BOAC Captain.

G&T ice n slice
1st Jan 2015, 13:23
I keep reading the thread title as "Use of Uniform after fly fishing"

ah well dilsexyia lures ko

P6 Driver
1st Jan 2015, 14:36
And I thought it was going to be all about the interesting and important reasons that RAF aircrew feel the need to wear grobags when not on flying duties.

Toadstool
1st Jan 2015, 15:39
And I thought it was going to be all about the interesting and important reasons that RAF aircrew feel the need to wear grobags when not on flying duties.

Have you seen the number of pockets? Very handy for all the wallets.:ok:

Loose rivets
1st Jan 2015, 16:19
I'd been retired some years when I decided to take a very nice uniform into Oxfam (no, not in the days of security problems) It must have been within three days I was offered one of those retirement jobs for a small regional. I went to Oxfam and bought my uniform back.

The final shedding of uniform was in the security scare era. After a year or so I destroyed, sadly, my last jacket.

I still miss a uniform shirt when SLFing, to the point I'll cut the epps off so that I've got the pockets for passport, ticket, glasses and of course, pens. Soooo handy and the button down flap keeps the passport safe.

VP959
1st Jan 2015, 16:21
And I thought it was going to be all about the interesting and important reasons that RAF aircrew feel the need to wear grobags when not on flying duties.

My experience was that, for some, it was because they'd "grown out" of their uniform, such that it no longer fitted. I recall much borrowing of uniform when some were required to wear it for some special event.

(yes, I am thinking of former Nimrod crew and their seemingly insatiable appetites.....................)

Toadstool
1st Jan 2015, 16:43
Those victoria sponges, lobster and fois gras aren't gonna eat themselves!! :ok:

obgraham
1st Jan 2015, 22:08
Trouble is, Rivets, when I use one of those multi-pocket travel shirts I can never remember which pocket I put the item I seek!

These things should be banned to geezers.

Toadstool
1st Jan 2015, 22:14
OBG

That's why we have SOPs , for those who may get a wee bit forgetful in their twilight years:O

ExSp33db1rd
1st Jan 2015, 23:38
The two pockets on my old uniform shirts are no longer large enough for all the cr*p one seems to need to board an aircraft these days. As mentioned on another thread, I bought a "uniform" shirt from one of those camping and safari shops that provide gear for travelling, it has multi-pockets within pockets, some zipped and totally obscure from even the prying eyes of the TSA goons, or other passing muggers, but I agree, remembering where everything is becomes a source of much anger from the queue waiting at the security lines for me to finish loading their plastic trays, flights have been missed, tough, it's "their" system.

(just don't be behind me )

vctenderness
2nd Jan 2015, 10:04
The earlier story reference Cilla Black is inaccurate I am afraid.

The 'singer' concerned was Sandie Shaw along with her manager.

I know I was part of the crew:ok:

As for the wonderful Cilla she deserves all the bad publicity she gets very unpleasant person indeed.

On the subject of lectures on board I have, indeed, been present at a very interesting lecture on cars and their history.

Stanwell
2nd Jan 2015, 11:29
When travelling as SLF, I sometimes wear my old military-issue aramid flying jacket.
As a consequence, one is often selected for special attention by airport security.
Perhaps I should just wear a blouse and mini-skirt.

VP959
2nd Jan 2015, 15:38
When travelling as SLF, I sometimes wear my old military-issue aramid flying jacket.


If yours was a similar pattern to our cold weather flying jacket, then it was one of the most useful bits of kit (after flying boots and thick socks) to hang on to. Ours has (or had) a useful flap that unbuttoned and could be dropped down to cover a seat, protecting one's backside from damp or whatever. I've absolutely no idea why it was designed like this, as every A/C seat I've ever sat on had a lambswool cover, but I have found it useful now I'm no longer in Her Majesty's employment.

Fareastdriver
2nd Jan 2015, 15:54
Ours has (or had) a useful flap that unbuttoned and could be dropped down to cover a seat, protecting one's backside from damp or whatever. I've absolutely no idea why it was designed like this,

It's for sitting on frozen trolleyacks whilst they're trying to get the canopy open.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
2nd Jan 2015, 17:27
The earlier story reference Cilla Black is inaccurate I am afraid.

The 'singer' concerned was Sandie Shaw along with her manager.

I know I was part of the crew

Was it on Concorde? I ask because the story was told to me as I told it here, and I do wonder if a BA cabin crew member wouldn't just bite their tongue, especially when dealing with a Concorde pax, rather than say what they think.

Tankertrashnav
2nd Jan 2015, 17:42
I will admit to using some of my flying kit for practical reasons post-retirement, but stripped of all badges,

I think it was Stephen Potter in Oneupmanship who gave the example of a post WW2 junior officer who had an old battledress for gardening etc which had been stripped of rank, but the unfaded bits where the pips, etc, had been removed clearly showed the wearer's rank had been brigadier.

Gordy
2nd Jan 2015, 17:56
VP959

Ours has (or had) a useful flap that unbuttoned and could be dropped down to cover a seat, protecting one's backside from damp or whatever.

I always thought the flap got buttoned on the front after passing under yer butt so that when your buddies picked you up off the ground by your jacket, it stayed on and did not slip over your head.....

Worked well on those late night pup crawls.....yes..that Nimrod crew again---worked just fine in Goose Bay many years ago....

Tankertrashnav
2nd Jan 2015, 18:02
Worked well on those late night pup crawls.

Is that anything like dogging?

;)

Solid Rust Twotter
2nd Jan 2015, 18:44
Ours has (or had) a useful flap that unbuttoned and could be dropped down to cover a seat, protecting one's backside from damp or whatever.


Not perhaps a beavertail designed to protect the inner thighs and dangly bits from the depredations of unpadded parachute leg straps?

Gordy
2nd Jan 2015, 18:49
Is that anything like dogging?

Have to admit---I had to look that one up, clearly people in the UK have discovered a new past time...... Never called it that back when I was a lad....

VP959
2nd Jan 2015, 20:35
TBH, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I actually wore a cold weather jacket when flying, the thing sat in my locker, unused, for years, so I can't see how the flap thing would have helped with any strap chafing.

Being an old fart, most of the seats I sat in had two sets of straps (one for the 'chute, one for the seat) and were a PITA to get in and out of.

I always thought the "beavertail" (I like that term, it describes the item well) was something related to cold weather survival, rather than anything associated directly with aviation.

If anyone knows the definitive reason for the inclusion of this item on the cold weather jacket (a misnomer, if ever there was one - I swapped one for a quilted blue nylon USAF one, a far more practical garment when it was cold) then I'd be interested to know.

Stanwell
3rd Jan 2015, 06:27
The reason for the flap on the para-jacket was to stop the thing ending up around one's ears, I was told.

ExSp33db1rd
3rd Jan 2015, 07:30
........and I do wonder if a BA cabin crew member wouldn't just bite their tongue,No. I recall a certain Cockney C/Std. ( as they were called in those days ) going to close the curtain twixt F/C and Business Class, and seeing Dudley Moore sat in the first row of Business, he said " Eh! I know you donn I, arn't you on't telly ?" and Dudley Moore rather sheepishly acknowledged that he was indeed occasionally seen on the TV.
The C/Std went on to say " Yor 'airs a but long, innit ?" and Dudley responded by indicating that that was the current fashion for mens hair. " Well," said the C/Std. " looks scruffy to me, I suggest you get it cut" and closed the curtain with a quick flourish.

Only a Cockney could have got away with it.

and ......... an Irish stewardess started serving the drinks just after take-off ( they were free in those days, and the word was to give the punters a quick drink to keep them quiet for a bit - doesn't happen now, one can die of alcohol deprivation before drinks are made available, at a price ) and was soon called back to the front of the, economy, cabin to be asked for a second Gin and Tonic, which she provided, only to be summoned back once again and asked for a third G & T. At that she asked the passenger to stand up, turn around, and tell her what he saw. She had to prompt him to admit that there were some 100 or more passengers in view, yes, she agreed, and when they've had their first Gin and Tonic I'll come back and give you your third, now sit down and shut up.

Don't mess with BA Cabin crew.

mikedreamer787
3rd Jan 2015, 08:45
Don't mess with BA Cabin crew.

Once had to take Birdseed to LHR then on to pickup a spanky new 320 down at TLS. Purser was a bloody tall woman who didn't take any shit from anybody.

As it was a last minute pickup, the Co could only get me in cattle class but our airport rep promised he'll 'have a word' once the crew were settled on board.

I was called to the jetway and observed the rep having as chat to the purser. Suddenly I heard this loud boom "You! Show me your boarding pass!"

Startled I enquired "What?"

"Don't bloody what me! I said show me your boarding pass!" retorted the towering monolith.

"Ok.....sorry."

"You're a captain ay?"

"Yes maam."

"Show me your ID."

"Ah...yes maam."

"Want an upgrade ay?"

"If it be at all possible".

"You want to be fed?"

"...sorry?"

"I ASKED IF YOU WANT TO BE FED!"

"Yes please."

"No spares in the forward galleys. You'll be fed what's in Economy."

"Yes maam."

"Ok you'll get your upgrade as a favor from me to Mr XXXXX here but no other specialties ok?"

"Ok"

"No demands on my crew for free booze understand? If you behave yourself you might get a half bottle of wine before descent."

"Ok"

"And don't bloody forget I'm taller than you."

"I won't."

"Enjoy your flight captain!" :)

OFSO
3rd Jan 2015, 09:04
Cruise ship lecturers - now there's a thought: a cruise ship where all the more prominent members of JB would be engaged to give lectures. Perhaps, if we could tempt dear old Slasher back, accompanied by slide shows.

beaufort1
3rd Jan 2015, 09:11
Going slightly off topic, I've often wondered what percentage of passengers are pilots repositioning or just going to work.
I certainly know quite a few who live in the islands who commute across to London where they are based. :8

ShyTorque
3rd Jan 2015, 09:23
There were two buttons on the inside of the front of the RAF cold weather jacket and button holes on the extension of the "bum flap". If the flap was passed under the posterior and the extension with the button holes was passed between the legs and buttoned up inside the jacket, it prevented it riding up over the cold weather trousers, with which it was designed to be worn.

Not much use around the station when worn with "blues" as many did, but if you ever had to wade through deep snow (some of us did, on occasions) it was a life saver.

VP959
3rd Jan 2015, 11:38
Thanks for that, ST, it's answered a question that's puzzled me for years. The flying I did meant I was never issued with the matching trousers, if things were that cool then it was goonbag and woolybear season, which made the use of the jacket redundant.

oxenos
3rd Jan 2015, 12:33
I returned to Kinloss to start my third tour in the middle of Jan 70. Since most of my U K stuff was still in store I turned up wearing my cold weather jacket over uniform. C O informed me that he did not approve, adding, " even if it was permitted on your last Squadron". I refrained from reminding him I had just got back from Singapore.

vctenderness
3rd Jan 2015, 12:57
Shaggy sheep driver:

No not Concorde I'm afraid. However there were plenty of 'feisty' crew on that beast and they were definitely not intimidated by fame and fortune:)

Tankertrashnav
3rd Jan 2015, 17:28
... I turned up wearing my cold weather jacket over uniform. C O informed me that he did not approve, adding, " even if it was permitted on your last Squadron".

I used to use my cold weather jacket over uniform for the commute from Swaffham to Marham on my motorbike, until my flight commander spotted me and gave me a bollocking for wearing "mixed dress" in public.

Stanwell
3rd Jan 2015, 17:42
"Mixed dress" - I love that phrase.
These days, we just kit 'em out in camo mufti.
You just know it makes sense, don't you?