View Full Version : Mystery object

tony draper
31st Dec 2014, 13:07
Any of you numerous proon Bods who had the benefit of a classical education know what this symbology indicates?
PS I know they are Greek letters and I know it is not the Pi Rho,even we illiterate oinks know that much.:rolleyes:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/Deaddogbay/Deaddogbay002/10898235_10203438013813421_4969848889486836727_n_zps61381cdc .jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Deaddogbay/media/Deaddogbay002/10898235_10203438013813421_4969848889486836727_n_zps61381cdc .jpg.html)

tony draper
31st Dec 2014, 13:25
Here's a clearer image for the hard of seeing like me.:)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/Deaddogbay/Deaddogbay002/Greekxx_zps23c47f7e.png (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Deaddogbay/media/Deaddogbay002/Greekxx_zps23c47f7e.png.html)

31st Dec 2014, 13:26
You mean "Chi rho", I think

Those look a bit like hebrew letters.

Seems to be an early Christian anchor symbol.

Yep. That's my vote

Early Christian anchor with the letters Aleph and Tav. The picture has it the right way up, as Hebrew reads right to left. The meaning appears to be "Jesus is the anchor of my soul"

Anchor: found in the first century cemetery of St. Domitilla, the second and third century epitaphs of the catacombs, and especially in the oldest parts of the cemeteries of Sts. Priscilla (about 70 examples in this cemetery alone), Domitilla, Calixtus, and the Coemetarium majus. See Hebrews 6:19.


tony draper
31st Dec 2014, 13:43
Thank you Mr Fox sounds right,one shall post this information to the other person,claiming the answer as my own of course. :rolleyes:

31st Dec 2014, 13:45

31st Dec 2014, 13:52

And the winner is......... fox3...... for correctly guessing the contents of Tony D's gadget. And your prize is? One week without snow and temperatures above freezing. Congratulations. :}:}:E

31st Dec 2014, 13:55
Prize delivered in August, I presume?

Currently -26 with the windchill, snow this afternoon.

31st Dec 2014, 14:00
Which raises a question - who invented the anchor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_anchor) - and when?

31st Dec 2014, 14:44
I researched the Uluburun wreck when writing something on the Ancient Greek Mycenaean palace at Pylos.
Earlier ships, if we can rely on Homer, were generally smaller and beached each night. The requirement for an anchor only comes with larger ships that cannot be beached.
Polynesians may have done multiday/ocean voyages as early as 3,500BC, but all the craft appear to have been beachable (canoes, rafts)
Thus the most likely answer is the Phoenicians sometime in the second millenium BC.

Uluburun shipwreck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uluburun_shipwreck)

31st Dec 2014, 14:45
I think it was first suggested by the Flying Dutchman.

Or, invented by some Neanderthal fisherman sitting on a log who threw a rock wrapped in a vine over the side while he fished.

31st Dec 2014, 14:45

I see that you O' Canadians haven't quite gotten around to turning up the snow-blowing batteries which point south of your border as we've had very little snow, and cold, so far this season. Subject to change of course. :}:}:E

31st Dec 2014, 14:49
when writing something on the Ancient Greek Mycenaean palace

Graffiti? For shame.

31st Dec 2014, 14:55
Anchors: Even experts can lose them. This clip of a U.S. warship dropping its anchor - permanently - is worth watching. A 'shot' of anchor chain is 5 fathoms, ie 90 feet.


31st Dec 2014, 14:55

31st Dec 2014, 15:27
Fox that bird, duck? there looks like it's holding a stylized hockey stick. Were those markings found in Anaheim? ;)

31st Dec 2014, 16:13
The graffiti is from the Temple of Apollo at Didyma, in what is now Turkey.


The circular shield is a hoplon, from which we get the name of the phalanx soldier, the hoplite. He's holding a spear. He was probably at the temple to make a sacrifice and possibly to get an oracle - Apollo was the main oracular God, and there was probably a priestess giving guidance, as at Delphi.
It probably took several days from asking one's oracular question to getting the reply, so this graffiti was probably done whilst the soldier was waiting.
The bird may represent an oracle also, as the movement of birds was also believed to be a way that the Gods indicated their wishes. The Raven is sacred to Apollo, so it's probably one of these.

The Temple was never finished. Each column took 20,000 man-days of work to produce, costing 379 pounds of silver, and there were planned to be 120 of them. The center was intended to have no roof, by the way.

It was the site of a pan-Hellenic festival, so the soldier could have been from anywhere in Greece (that's ancient Greece, which included what is now the east coast of Turkey).

tony draper
31st Dec 2014, 16:22
Anchors were never a great success until they stopped carving them out of wood.

31st Dec 2014, 16:39
I hadn't seen this till I replied to the question here (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/545745-really-really-boring-totally-pointless-snippets-information-thread-xxiv-182.html#post8804459).

I think the letters are I X - Greek, Ἰησοῦς Χριστός.

31st Dec 2014, 17:01
I defer to the expert.
Looks rather like the Hebrew letters also, don't you think?
Jesus Christ - I X in Greek
I am the Alpha and the Omega - T A in Hebrew (read A T),
and the anchor quote is from Hebrews 6:19

31st Dec 2014, 17:37
Yes, it could well be Aleph to Tav.

Hebrews 6:19 works, too.

31st Dec 2014, 19:24
A 'shot' of anchor chain is 5 fathoms, ie 90 feet.

Orstralian fathoms, RJM?


tony draper
31st Dec 2014, 19:54
Full fathoms five my father lies, ie thirty feet. :)
By the mark.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/Deaddogbay/Deaddogbay002/Lead_line_2_zpsad74a585.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Deaddogbay/media/Deaddogbay002/Lead_line_2_zpsad74a585.jpg.html)

31st Dec 2014, 21:12
I'm hardly an expert, but those symbols do not look like greek to me.

Was that anchor lost due to human error or mechanical malfunction?

31st Dec 2014, 21:29
Was that anchor lost due to human error or mechanical malfunction?
AFAIK (though I am no expert WRT naval matters) the anchor chain isn't fixed at its end - so the error is in letting too much pay out.
The chain is marked with 'length to go' as it nears the end, and the operators should stop the windlass before the chain runs off and disappears.

Do they carry a long boat-hook to retrieve the chain?

31st Dec 2014, 22:05
On yachts, even very big ones, a jammed anchor/chain could conceivably drag the boat under, or cause other problems (e.g. render it impossible to escape from a collision), so it is never fixed to the boat. I would imagine from the physics of it that it's the same for an amphibious assault ship.
Likewise, the largest sails (spinnakers) never have stop knots put in the controlling sheets.

If it is possible that an anchor may have to be abandoned, then a marker buoy can be attached on a separate point with a retrieval rope. See left side ofpicture. I have had to abandon and retrieve anchors this way twice. Hauling up the Tarawa's chain (104 tons) would require an increasing scale of warps and winches which the ship itself probably does not carry (and a diver, which it does).

Caboclo - either Greek or Hebrew. It's conceivable they've been stylized to be interpretable as both. Can't tell from the video whether the anchor winch crew missed the markers or the brake failed.

31st Dec 2014, 22:47
As I interpret the turning of the 'brake', it is thought that the crew loosened the brake by too many turns then couldn't tighten it quick enough to stop the chain.

31st Dec 2014, 23:02
As I interpret the turning of the 'brake', it is thought that the crew loosened the brake by too many turns then couldn't tighten it quick enough to stop the chain.

Hmm. Seems a bit sloppy. We can put man on the moon, can't we come up with a better brake system?

tony draper
31st Dec 2014, 23:13
Best look at the chart as well,if it says fifty fathoms where you are and you had a thirty fathom anchor chain,best move to somewhere shallower.

31st Dec 2014, 23:29
Seems a bit short sighted of the US Navy not having the same set-up as a lot of merchant vessels where the anchor chain is terminated at the "bitter end" in a quick release dead link held closed by a sledge hammer operated release pin.

Even if your winch and brake fails you can't fully lose the anchor chain, but you can free it if the circumstances arise that you really need to drop the pick in a hurry.

If you find yourself in this situation, just make sure that you do three things:
1: - stand well clear of the chain as it runs,
2: - wear a really good pair of ear defenders
3: - make really sure that you only have to hit the pin once.

31st Dec 2014, 23:39
We can put man on the moon, can't we come up with a better brake system?

We didn't put all the men on the moon (e.g. Apollo 1), and we haven't put anyone on Mars yet.

Training and Safety Cost. Managers/Leaders sometimes have to admit they're wrong, but don't.

And sometimes Shit just Happens.

tony draper
31st Dec 2014, 23:43
Best stay out of the chain locker when they are hauling it up as well.:rolleyes:

1st Jan 2015, 07:50
A 'shot' of anchor chain is 5 fathoms, ie 90 feet.

Orstralian fathoms, RJM?

Ya got me, Grumpy. Try 15 fathoms. :\