EK-777 F/O's in January

[Cloud Bunny]

Guys, have we suddenly lost an enormous number of F/Os from the 777 fleet meaning we are all working our nuts off in January. I'm trying to swap a trip for basically anything else - an African destination not too far away. I have at the last count tried 27 swap requests and thus far I have had 27 requests rejected due to the other crew member "exceeding productivity".
Never seen this before, could it be a glitch in the system or are we genuinely all working to the max next month? :confused:

Ta!

[Desdihold]

It may be the new requirement to have augmenting pilots (FO s) on many of our flight........there was an fci or N on it a few months ago.

When I first read I my first thought was that everyone in the right seat will be flying their nuts off....

[Outatowner]

The latest rumour is the overtime threshold is going up to 98hrs per month, flat rate regardless of how many days in the month.

[lospilotos]

85 hours plus SIM...

[SOPS]

Welcome to the 777 Captain's world. We have been flying at max hours for years.

[Payscale]

Anyone near the bottom of the list care to share how many slot you have moved up on the list over the last 6 months?

[Payscale]

I can actually answer my own question.
The guy that was on the bottom of the list in OCT 13 has moved up 112 slots on the list in 14 months.
112 of of 3700 is hardly an exodus of epic proportions. What happened to the American floodgates opening?...

[cerbus]

55 pilots have left since July 6.
So many more pilots are looking to leave with the conditions deteriorating rapidly at Emirates.

[ManaAdaSistem]

The only gates opening are the mouths of EK pilots.

55 pilots have left since July 6.
So many more pilots are looking to leave with the conditions deteriorating rapidly at Emirates.


You guys are saying the same year after year after year after year.

[Trader]

Sorry Mana - but my stats show over 150 having left. At the moment the CC are leaving at a rate of 2 for every 1 they hire and those CC figures have made some waves.

Pilots just take longer to organize their exit plan and China Southern alone has a long list of EK applicants and is processing them at a rate of 2-4 every week.

But who knows in the end how many will actually leave. Moral has NEVER been this bad.

CC sickness is through the roof as well because most just no longer care and have decided they will not stay long enough so co. threats of no upgrades fall on deaf ears. I have seen flights with 3 pursers called in to act as GR1's because of sickness.

Whether any of this has any effect on management - again, who knows. But ask ANYONE in DXB who regularly flies business/first and they will tell you how bad EK service has become.

People may not leave - but they also do not care. And that is worse than having them leave!

[sluggums]

Just like you spout the same cr*p, year after year after year Mana.

Trader, you are correct.

[777boyindubai]

Mana. The boys are right on the money. Hope you had a good Xmas

[falconeasydriver]

EVERY septic I've flown with in the last 12 months have been working actively, planning too, or are in the process of departing. The last guy I shared a FD with was 2 weeks away from heading home after 3 years and 1 day here (bond anyone?) He was back off to Delta as a junior 88 F/O.
Another guy passed the upgrade interview AND then said bye bye.

[gl69]

AA has over 200 Emirates pilots with applications on file. I know I said it before but not all will get hired or even go but it shows the depths of despair here in the Middle East.
I wonder what will come first. A pay raise or an exodus?

[ryu777]

Payscale,
I don't think its as simple as checking out how many places the last person on the seniority list has moved up. I used to think the same but I checked the seniority list this morning and I've moved up 7 places in the last 9 days (I'm about 3/4 down the list). The guy I used as a comparison who was bottom of the list 9 days ago has only gone up 1 place when you would think that they would have gone up at least 7 places as well. So I guess the UAE cadets, who have been here years while doing their training in Jerez get inserted somewhere in the middle of the list once they start their type rating. Maybe the same is true of ex FlyDubai cadets as well when they come back to Emirates.

[sluggums]

Neither, I'm afraid GL69.

[flaphandlemover]

A payrise will not solve anything in this company anymore...

People are sick of beeing treated and talked to in a tone that one would not even use to lecture his dog.

Threat emails, roster unsatisfaction is through the roof, max 4 off days to endure more days in paradise ... just o name a few...

It was all predicted be4 but nobody ever listened...

The tsunamy has formed in the ocean... Landfall will be 2015...

[streethockey]

I am going to suggest that local EK pilots are being sent to military service. This maybe, in part, the reason for the increase in FO flying hours.

[ManaAdaSistem]

Thanks 777, it's been great so far. Getting through Xmas day was just the start, still a few non halal events coming up. I'm off most of December. :ok:

I'll let you know when EK recruitment is getting worried. That will be the time when they send me an email to see if I'm available.
You know, when they start to scrape to bottom of the barrel :)

I've been here (ME forum) for more than 10 years, and the same guys are saying the same things now as they did 10 years ago.
Maybe 2015 will prove me wrong.
Good luck to all of you, and Gong Xi Fa Cai!

[Nikita81]

I've been here (ME forum) for more than 10 years


Join Date: 22nd Oct 2014

..........

[777boyindubai]

Glad you are well and enjoying the festivities.

I agree with your point about people saying the same thing ten years ago.

Now it is very different, though. The two blogs mentioned previously are proving very damaging to the recruitment effort. There is a third that refers to a non aviation side of EK. That again has caused uproar with our friends in Umm Ramool. People who know the business and who care are leaving in droves. Across departments. The recent survey (results still not released) and sackings showed how out of touch they are in HQ.

Inflation, Meydan Labour Camp, Unavailability of swaps, max hours and the latest from the Medical Clinic about drinking

The culture of fear is breaking down by the day and people really don't care like they used to. The service is plummeting and as the other two main Gulf carriers increase their network, EK will suffer further.

The viciousness and high handedness of our senior management ensured their bonuses. Now it will ensure their downfall. I will leave at the end of the school year as my kids come first.

They know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Ts and Cs will be further eroded until they will wake up and see the disaster they have precided over. Gulf Air MK2. The idiots will never learn.

[777boyindubai]

Nikita, he was Manadasystem until he had a brand refresh......

[Nikita81]

I know. I found both of his nick names.

I can do like you guys, start a thread and just assume everybody knows who I work for.

You are actually posting here assuming that everyone knows who you are. Seems that you don't follow your own principles. :) Who do you work for?

[fringhtok]

I think I mostly agree with Mana.

I know a reasonable number of Americans here; some are trying to leave, many are not. Those that aren't, are they guilty of DUI, do they have child support payments hanging over their head? I don't know, maybe. Are there 200 guys with apps in at American? I doubt it. Where did that number come from? Any evidence to back it up?

China Southern? Been hearing about 'lots' of guys going there for a while now. Hasn't happened, yet. That doesn't mean it won't, but there's no evidence that heaps of guys are just waiting for the call.

Ryan Air? I've lost count of the number of people who told me about the 25 guys who resigned enmasse to go back. I know a few ex-Ryan Air guys. None of them know any of those '25'. The guys I know who left there to come here did it for specific reasons. To a man, those reasons still exist and none are looking to return.

The F/O who resigned, either during the upgrade interview, right after, or after being told he was being delayed by either three or six months, depending on who's telling the story? Again, heard the story plenty of times. Never heard a name, or met anyone who personally knows him. If it happened, good luck to him. It's a small industry and I certainly won't be burning bridges like that.

I have that same seniority list from last year with the same numbers. Significantly less than 5% have left in over 14 months. Those considering will now wait until May, hoping against hope for a big reward. Here's really what I see: a lot of guys staring down the barrel of a tough job that seems to keep getting tougher. We're like that proverbial frog in the water that keeps getting hotter. We hope in vain that the pressure will get too much on the company and they'll be forced to make things better, either better pay, better conditions, or, hopefully, both. We stare at our mates hoping they'll make the difficult move that will apply that pressure. Unfortunately, too few of us are prepared to make that move. Until that changes, it will just keep getting hotter.

[Nikita81]

We're like that proverbial frog in the water that keeps getting hotter. We hope in vain that the pressure will get too much on the company and they'll be forced to make things better, either better pay, better conditions, or, hopefully, both. We stare at our mates hoping they'll make the difficult move that will apply that pressure. Unfortunately, too few of us are prepared to make that move. Until that changes, it will just keep getting hotter.

So, why don't you join Emirates Illuminati then?:) They are prepared to make that move, apparently.

[Payscale]

I like the frog analogy.

I did just look at the bottom guy and see how many he moved up in 14 months.
I guess the only real measure is going through the list name by name. Thats a bit ambitious.

At the end of the day. If you have a better option leave. If you need a job come to Emirates. As someone said "Family comes first". That can mean leaving or coming. Good luck. I'm staying awhile.:hmm:

[Panther 88]

But the true "canary in the mine" is in fact cabin crew resignations. As was stated above, early resignations are happening at a record pace never seen before.

Whatever the reasons, it is happening. 2015 will see a greater number of pilot resignations than years past. Pilots uprooted from their homes of 20 years may have the option (and money) to retire instead of putting up with continual erosion of the T&Cs that don't seem to stop, continued hiring by legacy carriers not just in the US, and the general feeling of frustration with rosters, etc.

Heard of one pilot very close to 777 upgrade that resigned to go fly right sear of an RJ in the US. He figured he would have an easier time getting hired by a legacy after a six month upgrade at the regional than stay here as a 777 captain. Smart move? Who knows at this point. But that tells of the overall dissatisfaction of daily work here.

Ask anyone from fleet what JA deals with daily? It's not operational.

[777boyindubai]

The CC issue is really starting to bite them in the ass. Looks like they are changing the sick note policy for self certification. CC will have to go to the clinic every two days in the near future. That is one of the last things they can do to raise "productivity." Things will continue to slide. Go figure........

[The Outlaw]

In all truth its probably too late to pull out of the dive they're in.

It would require a complete change of high level management and that won't happen, heck they probably aren't aware there is a problem.

This was all echoed at GF years ago and its how one airline grew to size it is now at the expense of the other.

Wait until the numbers fail them and they get the warning letters, then you'll get to see "fun times at the bouncy castle"

Don't make your roots too deep in the "host city".

[Nikita81]

777,

Heard yesterday from ground staff that flights are sometimes delayed because there is a CC shortage. Really hard for them to cope with the load. On the other hand, I've also heard that Christmas load was not as big number as it was in couple of last years...

Outlaw,

Completely agree. Great post.

Huge (and successful) companies actually need 10 or more years to show the deterioration. So, if "EK pilots' mouths" are opening for the last 10 years, somebody should listen to them.

A child can run a company like EK managers do. Hire new staff when old resign. Don't care about the reasons why staff resign. Spend money on new hire and their trainings instead of staff retention (which inevitably leads to serious degradation of the service quality after 10 or so years), underestimate your staffs' opinion and observations. Intimidate, punish and abuse the fact that unions and strikes are forbidden. Care for your ass only and use company's assets for personal gain.

True management talent lies in listening skills. If employees are talking about it - listen to them and act on it. If they are talking about it for ten years - start to panic. If you fail to panic - start packing your things - you will be notified of redundancy soon enough.

[Payscale]

Pilot resignation over that last year is as it has always been approx 4%. Let see in DEC 15. My guess it is....wait for it....4%:hmm:

[Nikita81]

Don't know what "always" stands for. :)

[TineeTim]

On the topic of F/Os in January- I checked reserve coverage and it looks like about 6% of Boeing guys in each rank are on reserve. Is that about the norm, high or low? Just curious, as that might indicate if we are indeed short. Thanks

[Murrenfan]

Wash up a couple days ago HR lady said it's 1.8% at the moment. This number is only for resignations, not early retirements. According to her most of them blaming the roster as main reason for leaving.

[777boyindubai]

HR always tell the truth. Just like every other department in EK!!

[SOPS]

Yeh, HR always tell it how it is. Sure they do.

[bigdaviet]

Sounds like a fairly honest assessment to me.

1.8% matches what I see on the seniority list and I'm sure noone will be surprised that roster is one of the main reasons.

1.8% is an increase as well, albeit still quite low.

[Nikita81]

At the end of the day. If you have a better option leave. If you need a job come to Emirates.

True. But it's a sad overall employees' and managers' attitude for any company.

Yeh, HR always tell it how it is. Sure they do.

Hahah! Heard last ones who lied got sacked. :}

[Payscale]

Early retirement being burnt out at 45?

[SOPS]

I was about to ask, what is the difference between 'early retirement' and resigning because you have had enough?

Personally, I have just done both. And as far as numbers leaving go, if another neighbour pulls the pin anytime soon...that will make 4 this month in our street.

[Desert Camel]

About 150 "departures" in the last year and a half (about 4%)!


More planes delivered, not so many more pilots to fly them = More hours, less leave and slower time for upgrades