ASIC and DUI

[TooFarNorth]

Having first acknowledged that I am a dill I would like some advice from anyone who has been in a similar experience.


I am about to apply for a CPL and ASIC but have recently had a DUI conviction. Has anyone in similar circumstances who has been through the process recently able to tell me whether I will qualify for an ASIC and the issue of the CPL




Thanks


TFN

[Mail-man]

My understanding is dui convictions will not disqualify you from an asic. Drug or violence related offences will. You may be scrutinized with liver tests during medicals and it's always advised to be honest with employment applications if asked. Also be aware of spent conviction times in the state you were convicted in so you know when you can forget about it. Fly safe

[fujii]

I think this is civil and not criminal. As you are in Cairns and there an ASIC office there why not just ring them? After all, you're heading for CPL. where you are the captain. You have to take the initiative and manage things rather than look at forums. You can also have a look at the Aviation ID Australia at Merimbula site where you can download the PDF application form and read that. There is a lot of other information there as well.

[tail wheel]

If a DUI conviction were an impediment to obtaining an ASIC, there really would be a very serious shortage of airline pilots in Australia!

:}

[Bull at a Gate]

Even those who really should know better can find themselves breaking the drink driving laws. Here in NSW a Supreme Court Judge was picked up over the limit last Friday night, although barely into the "low range".

What was your BAC and, perhaps more importantly, did the punishment involve any form of custodial sentence?

[TooFarNorth]

.13 Just a fine and suspension.

[*Lancer*]

Aviation Security Identification Cards (ASICs) (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/transport/security/aviation/asi/asics.aspx)

What is the definition of an adverse criminal record?

A person has an adverse criminal record if the person has been convicted of:

an aviation-security-relevant offence and sentenced to imprisonment; or
two or more aviation-security-relevant offences (with no imprisonment) one of which was received within 12 months of the criminal history check.

What is an aviation-security-relevant offence?

Only aviation security relevant offences are considered in determining whether a person has an adverse criminal record. An aviation-security-relevant offence is defined under Regulation 6.01 of the Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005 to mean an offence of a kind mentioned in the following table against a law of the Commonwealth, or of a State or Territory, or of any other country or part of a country:

1. An offence involving dishonesty
2. An offence involving violence or a threat of violence
3. An offence involving intentional damage to property or a threat of damage to property
4. An offence constituted by the production, possession, supply, import or export of a substance that is:
a narcotic substance within the meaning of the Customs Act 1901; or
a drug, within the meaning of:
regulation 10 of the Customs (Prohibited Exports) Regulations 1958; or
regulation 5 of the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956.
5. An offence, of a kind dealt with in Part II of the Crimes Act 1914, against the Government of:
the Commonwealth or a State or Territory; or
a country or part of a country other than Australia.
6. An offence against Part 2 of the Crimes (Aviation) Act 1991
7. An offence against Part 5.3 of the Criminal Code
8. An offence constituted by the production, possession, supply, import or export of explosives or explosive devices

[Mach E Avelli]

So, from the above, it seems you do not need to declare any offence in your ASIC application. For ten years I admitted to a civil offence, which was using a radar detector on a motorcycle. Issue of ASIC was never denied.
How you deal with the DUI question which is asked on your declaration when you do your next class one medical is another matter.
In a normal world, a low-range one-off offence should not be a worry, but with CASA being what it has become, I fear honesty may not be your best policy.
Others will disagree.

[kaz3g]

DUI is dealt with under the criminal law...not the civil law but a DUI conviction will not disqualify you from obtaining an ASIC.

However, it is a conviction and like every other conviction it must be declared to avoid perjuring yourself.

Some States and Territories have spent conviction schemes, others don't. Victoria is one of the latter.

Kaz

[TooFarNorth]

I see on the CASA license application form there are a couple of areas that concern me as well.





4: CASA must ensure an applicant is a fit and proper person before issuing a permission. Therefore the information requested in Section A6 is still required, even if you hold a valid ASIC or AVID.




6.Fit and Proper Person Requirements* Refer to CASR 11.055 and Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005,regulations 6.55 and 6.59.


Note: If you have concerns regarding privacy issues, please discuss your options with your flying school. Has any action been taken against you; or is any action in the process of being taken against you; or have you been refused the issue of any aviation related licence, certificate, rating or authority by any organisation?
Yes No
Have you ever been refused the issue of a transport related licence or certificate? (eg, pilot’s licence, pilot certificate, driver’s licence, boating licence)
Yes No
Do you have any criminal conviction or finding of guilt, which is less than ten years old, or any juvenile criminal conviction or finding of guilt, which is less than five years old?
Note: You should also include all motor vehicle traffic-related convictions including those from overseas.
Yes No
Is suspension or cancellation action pending in relation to any aviation licence you hold?
Yes No

[YPJT]

So, from the above, it seems you do not need to declare any offence in your ASIC application. For ten years I admitted to a civil offence, which was using a radar detector on a motorcycle. Issue of ASIC was never denied.
That seems rather odd. AUSCHECK informs the issuing body if the applicant has an adverse criminal record. Not the other way around. I have not heard of any application that requires you to declare criminal records.

[gileraguy]

it doesn't have to even be a conviction...

even a charge dismissed WITHOUT CONVICTION will still affect your suitability to hold an ASIC.

CASA is using the ASIC system to enforce morality in any way it can justify...

[YPJT]

You can always use a different issuing body to get your ASIC.
CASA are not the only ones who issue AUS ASICs for pilots.

[kaz3g]

"Do you have any criminal conviction or finding of guilt, which is less than ten years old, or any juvenile criminal conviction or finding of guilt, which is less than five years old?"

So a DUI would almost certainly be dealt with by conviction and fine or heavier penalty and would have to be declared.

A small shop theft as a first offence would likely be dealt with either by diversion (no finding of guilt therefore not declarable) or good behaviour bond without conviction (finding of guilt and therefore declarable).

For ten years I admitted to a civil offence, which was using a radar detector on a motorcycle.

Road traffic matters are dealt with under the criminal law...you almost certainly entered a plea of guilty and pleas guilty are not part of the civil law. You correctly admitted a conviction which was of no consequence to your status as a fit and proper person.

But if you didn't admit it and CASA took issue with the failure, you could be charged with perjury which would be of great consequence.

Kaz

[TooFarNorth]

YPJT


The paragraphs I posted above are not from an ASIC application but from the actual license application itself which is a CASA document. It appears that they go through the whole process again prior to issuing the license whether you have an ASIC or not and it appears they can refuse the application if they deem you unfit.


What I can't find is how they determine your fitness or otherwise to hold the license and who actually makes the decision.

[currawong]

TFN,

Get familiar with the Aviation Transport Security Act.

It is online and easier to get to grips with than it sounds.

Then at least your knowledge will be first hand.

Then you can justify whatever course of action you take by referral to the Act, if necessary.

The system is designed around terrorism, organised crime and violence, in a nutshell. Unless you got your DUI during the commission of any of these I would say you are ok.

And, there is flexibility in the system to assess on a case by case basis.

[YPJT]

TFN,
not having had to fill out a licence application for nearly 20yrs, I can only give opinion on the ASIC side of things.

Currawong's advice is worth taking on board.:ok:

[Rod Con]

What I can't find is how they determine your fitness or otherwise to hold the license and who actually makes the decision.

Enforcement Manual. Appendix 4. Guidance on the term "fit & proper person"

[TooFarNorth]

Rod Con,


Thanks for the info. That makes for interesting reading.


Longrass,


Good to hear from somebody that has been through the process. Thanks.

[MaxFL360]

I have to ask, although you will be eligible for an ASIC will you be eligible for an airline gig or a company that conducts background checks? Would this not come up as a red flag?

[TooFarNorth]

Maybe. But that could be true of any industry so I will cross that bridge when I have to.

[longrass]

Doubtful, a Traffic Act offence, especially a mid-range, presumably only 6 month suspension, would not affect ones ability to do anything... It hasn't affected anything I do... ****, half of the pollies in Darwin are repeat offenders...

Problem may arise for a repeat offender and that goes for any offence. In this instance, CASA Medical would probably want you to seek counselling, but that's probably as far as it could go.