Holiday cheer from your Medical Department

[lowstandard]

Nice to see the finger is probing just a little deeper into our lives. I especially like the subtle reminder about vacation libation.

I guess a certain champagne video really got under someones skin.. Sorry, bad choice of words.

Look crisp, sharp and ready for duty chaps. Eyes are everywhere!

[halas]

Wow!

CDT checks and liver function tests can put you in the sin-bin if fleet, HR, training, CC reports, crewing....... don't.

Makes a high BMI look like a better option :}

halas

[Kapitanleutnant]

???

What's all this?

[lfrk]

If Ek wouldn't give us so much ****, we wouldn't need to drink that much to forget...
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
Another christmas joke, the list is getting long for December only. Can't wait 2015!!

[The Turtle]

Hehe you said Holiday "cheer".......clever

[Old King Coal]

Not being privy to the email, is this some sort of new GCAA requirement, or just one within EK ?

[SOPS]

That's it's, I'm over it. Merry Christmas every one.

[BigGeordie]

Looks like a GCAA requirement rather than something EK have made up. It is a little concerning that "3rd party reports" are enough to get you dragged in for a battery of tests which are potentially career ending. Looks to me like one Grade 2 out to make a name for themselves could cause somebody no end of grief. "When I was in the bar on a layover nursing my orange juice it seemed like the Captain was having a lot to drink...."

[falconeasydriver]

Big G, you mean you quaff "coping fluid" both in the presence of our lovely, trust-worthy, butter wouldn't melt in my sweet mouth CC, in the hotel Bar? brave man indeed. Me, if I decide I require rehydration, it will be well away from the prying eyes of "Suzie" or "Agnes" :ok:

[BigGeordie]

Me? Never. However some people are a little innocent in the ways of the company.

[777boyindubai]

Totally correct from the above two posters.

[lospilotos]

So, how would you know if you are above or below this CDT limit. And why is it any concern of the CGAA or EK if I get absolutely plastered every day on my vacation, as long as I do not consume within 12 hours of duty and of course is below the blood alcohol limit at actual time of testing?

[ruserious]

Seriously lads, what is the problem, go off on a wine tour, get plastered, come back get tested and get an extra 2 weeks off the roster to recover from your holidays, what's not to love about that :} :rolleyes:

[nakbin330]

Those two weeks will be occupied by a battery of further tests possibly followed by termination, so perhaps not such a restful break.

[BANANASBANANAS]

And try applying for a job elsewhere with 'medical suspended due alcohol issues' even though you have done nothing wrong.

Maybe that's what EK want - unemployable elsewhere!

[Old King Coal]

It will be interesting to see how quickly this new 'rule' gets rescinded, i.e. when aircraft are being parked for lack of crews to fly them, i.e. as a result of us having partied too hard when on leave... and, fwiw, I too fail to see how this fits with the 12 hour & BAC rules which have served so well for so long?

Coincidentally, based upon data revealed in a presentation article by that said same AME (Dr Fiona Rennie), this certainly seems to be a sledgehammer to crack a nut:

http://asmameeting.org/asma2013_mp/pdfs/asma2013_present_150.pdf

------------------------------------------
!!!!! STOP PRESS !!!!!.... Someone has just forwarded me the email:

ALCOHOL MISUSE

The GCAA are amending their Aeromedical regulations and these become effective from 01 January 2015.

Amongst the changes, the following regulations referring to Alcohol Misuse have been introduced.

Alcohol screening will be required for the following situations:

i. Screening as part of age 60 medical certification
ii. As part of the medical evaluation as determined by the AME during the regulatory medical examination (e.g. in cases of cardiac arrhythmia, insomnia, chronic headache, depression/anxiety, liver disease and cases of uncontrolled hypertension/diabetes or increased suspicion especially in those with a family history of addiction)
iii. Referral following an aviation incident or work related issue
iv. 3rd party notifications for suspected drug or alcohol misuse

Emirates is also required to randomly screen 20% of operating crew for drugs and alcohol.

Alcohol Screening requires a detailed medical history and examination, questionnaire and laboratory tests. The laboratory tests required by the new regulation are:

i. GGT (gamma-glutamyl transferase): An enzyme produced by the liver and increases with alcohol use. However it is not a specific marker and can be elevated in other conditions.
ii. MCV (mean corpuscular volume): The size of the red blood cells increase with excessive alcohol consumption but like GGT can be elevated with other conditions.
iii. CDT (carbohydrate deficient transferrin): CDT is more specific to alcohol use and may be elevated with the consumption of> 4 or 5 standard drinks per day for two weeks or more. It is an important marker for alcohol use disorder. The new regulation states that any elevation of CDT requires immediate grounding, a liver ultrasound to assess for biliary disease and a full report from a substance abuse specialist regarding alcohol intake.

Previously, Emirates AMEs have been able to assess and monitor pilots with an abnormal CDT level, usually without grounding or involving assessment by a substance abuse specialist. This flexibility has been removed and from 01 January onwards, any pilot with an elevated CDT will automatically be grounded.

Unfortunately, blood tests after vacation sometimes show an elevated CDT level, so what you may feel is a normal alcohol intake on vacation could result in license suspension if you were to be tested in the following weeks.

The new regulations contain a detailed protocol for rehabilitation/treatment/reinstatement and follow-up. The GCAA have advised that any pilot who voluntarily asks for assistance with their use of alcohol should be assessed, treated (if required) and their medical certificate will be reinstated provided they comply with the requirements. The GCAA will not guarantee that this will be the case for those identified during testing but who have not declared that they are drinking to excess.

In addition, pilots not attending for mandated follow-up (AME review, laboratory tests, specialist review) at the specified time, risk the removal of their medical certificate.

Dr Fiona Rennie - VP Aviation Medicine

[drop kick]

Its a shame that the EK doctors are not subject to the same scrutiny, they make not be flying aircraft but they are still making potentially important decisions and subject to impairment by alcohol.
Not that this will happen, its not about fairness its about control.

[sluggums]

I do love it when a fat doctor gives you the 'BMI' chat, what an effing joke.

[Shakey Joe]

Gee hair over 30BMI ..'I can't issue your medical today'.....?? .. 'ehhh' (me) .....'present yourself to SZR walk-in clinic for bloods and let's do the sleep/snoring questionnaire'........'ehhhh??? (me)... 'email me when you've done the bloods'.....next day emailed him done...no reply...medical ready for collection...restrictions 'Nil'

WTF??

:{

Ps doc you could lose a few yourself

[Swansafa]

If it's GCAA mandated, OKC, then you should see some similar advice soon issued to FD pilots.

[Popgun]

The reasons to avoid the Sandpit continue to pile up...

PG

[Chewthecrude]

Dr FR is, I believe, doing the right thing by "advising" of the implications of the this type of testing and the subsequent risks that we are exposed to. I do not for one minute believe she agrees with these new "measures". She is doing a favour by warning us. and we should be grateful. The GCAA have decided against the principles of pretty much all other authorities that they know much better than far more qualified expects.

There are individuals who will show elevated blood results in one, two or all three of these tests even with moderate alcohol intake and others who can drink like a fish and their results will be normal. Until you take these tests you won't know how you fare.

GA, the very small Dr in EGHQ, sold this concept to the GCAA. They bought it. And now they will perfect it. He also introduced the BMI concept. Self promotion at its best.

The point is be aware of the implications of alcohol consumption in even moderate amounts. This has nothing to do with 12hrs before duty. This is about weeks/months of alcohol consumption that you can be tested for at any time on a whim.

Why don't Cathy, BA, SA, SQ, AA and others not have these same rules? Because they are not from the Middle East so don't have religious beliefs included in their thought process.

With that over...anyone for a cold one?

[ironbutt57]

I've been told low-carb diet attempts to maintain BMI can cause screwy readings in the liver function tests as well...and medically inclined folks here care to confirm or correct me?

[Rather Be Skiing]

.... Why don't Cathy, BA, SA, SQ, AA and others not have these same rules? Because they are not from the Middle East so don't have religious beliefs included in their thought process. With that over...anyone for a cold one?

Absolutely. The local population, of course, doesn't partake 😳 so we shouldn't either.

More of this kind of news can't be good for recruitment. Now they only need 450 locals to become airline qualified pilots for next year; shouldn't be a problem. 🍻

[BigGeordie]

Chewthecrude, it is of course absolutely right that we are advised of any new requirements that the GCAA come up with. As ever, it is more the tone of the e-mail that is the problem. It could certainly have been worded better with fewer threats.

[lowstandard]

At least the GCAA have a nice program if you voluntarily ask for assistance.

You will be driven to a rehab program out in Al Awir by friendly staff who will then give you a nice 30 day program to clean up.

[Puritan]

It is stated in the email that "Alcohol Screening requires a detailed medical history and examination, questionnaire and laboratory tests."

The email also includes the statement that: “Emirates is also required to randomly screen 20% of operating crew for drugs and alcohol.”

So are these two ‘screenings’ the same ?

E.g.
Will the Emirates pre-flight / post-flight ‘random screening’ now require “a detailed medical history and examination, and questionnaire and laboratory test” (based upon a blood sample) ? (that'll certainly play havoc with on-time departures and / or duty times!), OR:
Is it that Emirates ’random screening’ will now require that people are 'randomly' selected to visit with an AME - at a time outside of a 'Flight Duty Period' - for a blood sample to be taken, in order to be assessed for CGT, MCV, CDT? (aside that any such requirement would then constitute as a ‘Duty’ and therein is not something that could be done on ones 'DayOff' and, as such, Rostering / Crewing would have to plan & allow for this 'randomness'), OR:
Will Emirates ’random screening’ continue ‘as is’…. albeit with ‘enhanced screening’ (for CGT, MCV, CDT) only occurring for the following (as listed) situations:
Screening as part of age 60 medical certification.
As part of the medical evaluation as determined by the AME during the regulatory medical examination (e.g. in cases of cardiac arrhythmia, insomnia, chronic headache, depression/anxiety, liver disease and cases of uncontrolled hypertension/diabetes or increased suspicion especially in those with a family history of addiction).
Referral following an aviation incident or work related issue.
3rd party notifications for suspected drug or alcohol misuse.
So which is it?

And just what are the limits they have decided to set for each of CGT, MCV, CDT ?

[jack schidt]

I agree with Chewy above. I have had to see Dr FR personally and I have "personally" nothing but good things to say about her professionalism and understanding. Dr Fiona does care and is a much better choice than some of the other "small" minded people around in the clinic.

I think that this mandate is a clear case for those who have to worry, either about drinking too much generally or drinking too near to a medical or flight.

If you think that this affects you then the correct medicine for you is to take a look at your own habits and see if you are affecting your own bodys balance.

Alcohol might give you brief relief but it is not curing any of the problems that you might be "over doing it for".

Do I drink, YES, have I drunk too much before, YES, do I think I should drink less, YES, will I medically feel better if I drink less, YES, is this mandate a bad idea, NO.

If you disagree with it and fear that this is an infringement on your personal rights then please, don't fly my family if you are anywhere nearing the the unacceptable levels of "self control".

Happy Christmas all

jack

[Andy24]

http://asmameeting.org/asma2013_mp/pdfs/asma2013_present_150.pdf

[motojet]

Sorry Jack but I think your'e full of schidt on this one. How do you know that the only people that need to worry are those that drink too much or too near a flight? Do you have anymore knowledge of these tests than the rest of us? The letter from EK even warns about a positive result and being grounded if tested after a recent vacation with drinking.

It's not going to be easy to explain being grounded(suspended medical) during an interview with another airline.

[jack schidt]

Moto,

It's a simple answer my friend. IF YOU THINK YOU ARE AT RISK OF GETTING IN THE SCHIDT THEN EASE UP ON THE BOTTLE!! If the results are positive and are not alcohol related, then surely other tests will proove that, ie kidney function etc etc. If alcohol is your concern then that's your doing and no one elses.

jack

[HighLow]

oh dear !
there seems to be no shortage of sledgehammers smashing little nuts!

My understanding from reading previous posts, is that these are new GCAA requirements being introduced (effective Jan 01 2015), and would effect ALL PILOTS holding an ICAO licence under the GCAA?

A GCAA PDF detailing the new requirements would be extremely helpful if anyone has access to the relating documents.

The pilot community, (and of course they are always the handful of exceptions), take their profession extremely seriously, and recognise their responsibilities and the trust placed upon them by the travelling public.

I am sure it has always been the case where, under certain circumstances, an individual might come under the microscope as a result of perhaps alcohol/substance related behaviour, and no doubt there has always been a communication channel open to their company for individuals who worry about a colleagues drinking habits.

As a person who has been educated and told the rights, wrongs and dangers when dealing with alcohol all my adolescent/adult life, (admittedly adolescence did, on the rare occasion, take things to an extreme), it would be concerning to me, should the situation arise where a cultural belief system (where the prohibition of alcohol is at its core), would play a role in assessing my drinking habits for example.

For clarification, I am not talking about drinking to excess here !
We all have a professional obligation to help a colleague who is suffering from an over dependency on alcohol for example, and there are many ways to deal with this sensitive issue.

Furthermore; according to the GCAA regulations;
The average line pilot is hit with a mountain of tests during a "routine" medical, and be tested for alcohol abuse when the AME believes the pilot is suffering from depression or anxiety? Am I reading this correctly?

A few things that do concern me (and does increase MY OWN level of anxiety), especially since I am looking after a family and my income is vital to our own welfare;

Question: (individuals suspected of suffering from Depression or Anxiety)
Would a person who is suspected of suffering from depression or anxiety, originating from lands where their respective belief system forbids consumption of alcohol, be tested for alcohol abuse? Would the pilot in question even allow the AME to conduct the above tests, stating that it is unnecessary since "I do not drink alcohol".

Question:
Would an under-perfoming AME, originating from lands where their respective belief system forbids the consumption of alcohol, be completely impartial when determining who should be faced with these tests.


Drinking in moderation IS acceptable,
this moderation does depend on so many factors,
1 pint of Beer for lets say EU, US person versus
1 pint of Beer for someone of lets say Asian background;
what is moderation in each case?

I suggest you avoid using the following words during your next renewal;
buzzed; blasted; canned; destroyed; hooched up; loaded; obliterated; under-the-influence followed by under-the-table; wasted; ankled; Banjaxed; Battered,Befuggered; Bernard Langered; Bladdered,Blasted; Blathered; Bleezin; Blitzed,Blootered; Blottoed; Bluttered; Boogaloo,Brahms & Liszt; Buckled; Burlin; Cabbaged; Chevy Chased; Clobbered; Decimated; Dot Cottoned; Druck-steaming,Drunk as a Lord; Drunk as a skunk; Etched; Fecked; Fleemered; Four to the floor; Gatted; Goosed; Got my beer goggles on; Guttered; Had a couple of shickers; Hammer-blowed,Hammered; Hanging; Having the whirlygigs; Howling; Inebriated; Intoxicated; Jahalered; Jaiked up; Jan'd; Jaxied,Jeremied; Jolly; Kaned; Lagged up; Lamped; Loo la; Locked; plastered; smashed; locked; rubbered; trousered; hammered; langered; half cut; sloshed; smashed; trolleyed; ossified; banjo'd; baloobas; rat arsed; tanked; twisted; scuttered; legless; steamed; buckled; in tatters; in a jock; flamin; off my face; in ribbons; wasted; off my bin; demented; in a hoop; polluted; buckled; in a heap; gee eyed; in a hula-hoop; outta my tree; mouldy; transmoglified; shattered;
and of course last but not least;
TIRED - DO NOT SAY YOU ARE TIRED !
(unless you want to open up a can of worms)


I would echo some of the points made previously;
MOTOJET: "It's not going to be easy to explain being grounded(suspended medical) during an interview with another airline."
It certainly is a point to consider when contemplating a move to the ME.

[Curry Goat]

Jack. I think that the point here is the intrusiveness of this. When I go on leave, I enjoy consuming copious amounts of booze everyday whilst totally relaxing on a beach somewhere, but now have to be wary of this. That is just not right!

CG

[BigGeordie]

From what I understand consuming 4 or 5 units of alcohol a day for a two week period is enough to put you outside the limit for some of these tests. That is only a couple of large glasses of wine or a couple of pints of beer a day which is not what I would call "copious amounts", especially on holiday or at this time of year, or indicative of a problem. I wonder how many office staff (or indeed AMEs) consume more than that on their holidays or days off?

[drop kick]

Don't worry Im sure our management will lead by example and subject themselves to the tests themselves. Will they F@*K!!
This is about one culture imposing / dominating itself on another.
4 or five units a day is by no means excessive when on holiday.
If they want to improve safety why do they tolerate people fasting and operating in a safety related capacity????

[ManaAdaSistem]

OMG! What are the Auzzies going to do now? :eek:

[Emma Royds]

I have done a little bit of reading after receiving this email from FR. The impression I get is this new initiative is not designed to highlight those of us that enjoy a couple of glasses of wine with our meal but rather those that misuse alcohol on a regular basis.

For those that consume little or no alcohol then CDT readings will below 1.5% and the threshold for misuse seems to be around the 3.0% mark. 100g-150g of alcohol is required per day to achieve that percentage. That is similar to drinking a bottle of wine or 5 pints of beer or a third of a bottle of sprits daily. Days when no alcohol is consumed will dilute the current CDT level, so intermittent drinking appears to be far less of an issue. CDT levels will be elevated up to 7-14 days from consumption.

I think for the vast majority of us, we have little to worry about.

[halas]

Screening will be required when....
iv. 3rd party notifications for suspected drug or alcohol misuse.

So if you are concerned that you may have a high CDT level, don't piss anyone off around you as they may become the "Third Party".

halas

[fatbus]

Good guestion with regards to 3 Rd party, who exactly is that?

[LLuke]

Question for the GCAA should be: what's the added (safety?) benefit of these extra tests?

[Noleave]

Emma Royds, until one knows what %dCDT the GCAA is using as its limit even a few drinks with dinner could put you above a threshold. What if the threshold that they'll use is 1.7% or 2%.

I still do not see the benefit of such a policy. I think it's very intrusive, particularly any test done after a long period of leave. Whilst on leave I have a drink with lunch and with dinner.

Do the powers that be have nothing better to do?

[jidder]

Better get rid of my shares in barracuda & African an Eastern :8

J:E

[Oldaircrew]

Emma royds,

That's not the point. The intrusion into your life is. You might be fine but I might not be.

My Dad had diabetes, i don't. I I'll still be subject to their pathetic tests. I have no choice. I am really glad that you will not be singled out in this specific round of testing but just remember that it may change for the next round and then maybe........

[The Outlaw]

Its akin to going to Shawshank prison.

HADLEY: "Turn to the right, face the warden."

WARDEN: You are all convicted pilots, thats why they have sent you to me. Rule number 1...no blasphemy, I will not have the company's name taken in vain...the rest of the rules you'll figure out when we change them or make them up...Questions?"

NEW HIRE: When do we eat?"

HADLEY: "You eat when we say you eat, you **** when we say you ****, you piss when we say you piss, you'll live where we say you'll live, you'll drink how much we say you'll drink...you got that you %$@(&!*^ ?? (PUNCHES NEW HIRE IN THE GUT)

WARDEN: I believe in two things, discipline and more discipline, here you'll receive both. Put your trust in the OMA, your ass belongs to me....welcome to the company".

Actually the whole movie is full of comparisons. Sure, you'll try to fight it for the first few years then after some time you become institutionalized unless you can escape though the pipe to freedom!

All kidding aside, it IS a huge intrusion in your personal life, just like the forced moves...you have no little or no control in your private life, the company always has the final say. They even had pictures in the buses showing pictures of urine filled beakers showing what the pee of a dehydrated person looks like. What mind comes up with this? Many more examples like this. I expect this latest "gem" was born out of a few pilots with an addiction who caused an operational disruption, so of course this is the solution put forward by the GCAA (who probably got their advice from an unmentioned clinic) is to put control on alcohol intake, watch this space...this is the first step to a total ban. Remember where you live and who you work for.

The world is full of wide eyed and un-enlightened pilots with beliefs of grandeur who have not yet realized the challenges such a move entails. Marriages fail, bad investments, spoilt children, absolute control...etc etc.

Call it a warning to those from the outside looking in and an incentive to those inside looking out.

[helen-damnation]

Some people posting here need to wake up and smell the coffee!

This has come from the GCAA, not EK. If you believe it's an intrusion then you might want to leave the UAE. Oh, by the way, drug and alcohol tests are not restricted to the UAE. They are common place in stand alone companies as well as those bidding for contracts where they are a requirement to bid for said contract.

If you are not a habitual abuser then it would appear you don't have to worry.

Having said that, it's Christmas day so I'm off for some ritual abuse :}

Happy Christmas and happy landings to all.

[serf]

Alcohol should not be consumed within 24hrs of a flying duty, if you think otherwise please look for another career.

[The Outlaw]

Serf,

With that outlook then the same should go for bus drivers, doctors, dentists, train drivers, architects, or anyone else for that matter who is responsible for lives. Its not as simple as that, one drink 24 hours before duty is not the same as lets say 20 where you still would be under the influence. Why not just ban it altogether for everyone world wide? That way the playing field is level....in your eyes I guess! :rolleyes:


Helen,

I'm quite aware that this has come from the GCAA. I suspect the conception and driving force behind it has come from somewhere else with a vested interest in the policy. It seems to convenient that the end user is the beneficiary, don't you?

[jidder]

@ Serf, you've obviously been drinking :p

J:suspect:

[helen-damnation]

Outlaw,

As I don't expect to have problem with this even thought I do enjoy a few slurps there is no beneficiary. None, nil, zip, nada.

I realise there is a contagion of conspiracy fear but frankly I'm not buying it on this one.

I do think you may be right in that the aforementioned little 5h!t (IMHO) is a corporate climber who is/has pushed certain policies to look good. However, this one isn't going to affect me or 99.9% of our colleagues.

To be blunt, if the quoted figures are correct a bottle of wine or 5 pints of beer or a third of a bottle of sprits daily I would not want to be flying with that person anyway.

Only saying...

[helen-damnation]

Should also add that IMO FR is a good Dr who was simply advising us of the new requirements and possible pitfalls.

[Mister Warning]

Funny thing - I was never "randomly" tested until my notice period after I resigned.
Coincidence? Me thinks not.

[skysod]

Not that worried by this because if they make the test too stringent then the vast majority of pilots will be grounded along with the aircraft they were supposed to be flying..........aint never gonna happen!!

[serf]

@ Serf, you've obviously been drinking

J


You're right, but then again I'm off for a week;)

However, is it worth risking your livelihood for a drink?

[Desdihold]

Serf,

You are a sad and insecure example of a human being.
Having a social drink is perfectly ok, there is no evidence that drinking socially within 24 to 12 hours of flying is dangerous.

The ek clinic have now become bloodhounds where they should be only watchdogs.

The Ek move has all the marks of something which is put forward on religious grounds by someone in the company.
It is very similar to a medical test Saudi airlines conducts on new hires to see if they have consumed pork ( it seems pork has a unique signature), if you test positive then you must take a prescribed medication and take the test again.

Serf, grow up and do so quickly.

[White Knight]

Alcohol should not be consumed within 24hrs of a flying duty

Rubbish... Depends on how well your body metabolises alcohol (different races cope with booze differently), how much is consumed, what is consumed etc! Sounds like you're from the hard hat and yellow jacket brigade:rolleyes:

[falconeasydriver]

I can't fly without a stiffner or two....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7HlurdopaHQ

Besides, talking to a medical buddy of mine over a vat of ALE, he remarked that to get anything close to elevated levels...you would need to be a functioning alcoholic, or almost!

[serf]

Serf,
You are a sad and insecure example of a human being.
Having a social drink is perfectly ok, there is no evidence that drinking socially within 24 to 12 hours of flying is dangerous.


You're making stuff up now, I never said it was dangerous. However if you are stupid enough to drink before duty and then have a minor incident resulting in being tested, then carry on.

[Saltaire]

Having a beer or wine greater than 12 hours prior to duty is perfectly acceptable. It's been this way for many many years and 12 hours is plenty of time for the body to metabolize. Having a round of shooters just over the 12 hour limit and/or drinking excessively has always and will always be a problem. Don't be paranoid.

I certainly don't agree with this but 99% of us don't need to worry at all - it's those that drink daily and excessively.

[Count von Altibar]

That beggars belief. Do the GCAA think they've got a bit of an alcohol problem on the go out there? As you guys appear to get tested randomly anyway, surely that would be enough to deter/detect the problem people? This seems way too sneaky and invasive for my liking. It's like they're pushing for total control over the employee.

[Outatowner]

99% of us don't need to worry at all - it's those that drink daily and excessively.

and

If you are not a habitual abuser then it would appear you don't have to worryEtc, etc. That's like saying of speed cameras and security cameras all over the UK, well if you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

Amongst the changes, the following regulations referring to Alcohol Misuse have been introduced.Does that really mean amongst the GCAA's changes, EK has slid in the following regulations? Why isn't there any chatter about this system being introduced to flydubai and Air Arabia and the forgotten down the road?

Why not publish the extract of the regulations for us to read for ourselves instead of acting as the mouthpiece? I've never before worked in a company where they don't want you reading the federal regs or making direct contact with the regulator. Because they have so much to hide and because they are control freaks.

iii. Referral following an aviation incident or work related issueInteresting, what does that mean? Maybe if you make too many waves with awkward questions when no longer able to tolerate the latest management bull**** at the end of the RTGS day (except weekends when they cannot be bothered showing up) and you may find yourself up for some alcohol testing because you obviously have a problem.

Should also add that IMO FR is a good Dr who was simply advising us of the new requirements and possible pitfalls.She presides over the compromises with which the medical system is riddled = sell-out.

[fatbus]

Until I see the GCAA ref doc , I thinking this is a EK think started by that little DR in EGHQ that has been a real spot of bother for some if not many pilots.

[Saltaire]

Agreed Outatowner - valid points. Absolute control freaks.

This is why the notion of basings is never going to happen.

So where is this GCAA doc?

[helen-damnation]

Whatever :rolleyes:

[Am NOT Sure]

I personally find this very worrying

This is evidently not a GCAA requirement (yet)

Nothing being circulated at Air Arabia and to my knowledge flydubai either

One can only interpret this as another control abuse ... Anything published to employees of a company big as Ek should be scrutinized by a higher authority .. This would prevent any person with elevated intellectual abilities from becoming another office nazi

apologies if I sound furious but I have lived long enough in the region to have witnessed all sort of abuse and this is another reminder of the quality of managers spread across the region

[SOPS]

I'm so glad I have resigned.

[Will Rogers]

Not saying it's right but...

Depending on how much one considers an "advisory" publication a requirement, it is a GCAA requirement and can be found in CAAP 10 Aeromedical. Go to Subpart G - Aviation Psychiatry, Paragraph 4 - Alcohol Screening Tests (or page 91 for those who want the easy route). It's more or less verbatim what was in the e-mail.

The CAAP was issued in September and took effect on November 1st of this year. One can only assume its being used to formulate the actual regulation that is coming into effect as per the e-mail.

It does say earlier on in the CAAP (page 30) that the indicators are less sensitive to intermittent binge drinking so there seems to be an upside... :}

Happy New Year everyone and go easy on the bubbles ;)

[SOPS]

Ok like I said above ....I'm so glad I have resigned. I can't wait to take the dogs for walk on the beach, and have a beer as I watch them.....good bye every one..and good luck

[777boyindubai]

Good luck SOPS. I'll be gone soon too. Seven years. Things will continue a downward slide. No doubt.

[SOPS]

It took me 3 weeks to hit the 'send' button, when I did, the relief was amazing.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Envious of you two!! You "escaped".

[CAT3A]

Good luck SOPS, am here 8 years I think is time .....

[Nikita81]

Having a beer or wine greater than 12 hours prior to duty is perfectly acceptable. It's been this way for many many years and 12 hours is plenty of time for the body to metabolize. Having a round of shooters just over the 12 hour limit and/or drinking excessively has always and will always be a problem. Don't be paranoid.

I certainly don't agree with this but 99% of us don't need to worry at all - it's those that drink daily and excessively.

Wine or beer is acceptable if it's not on a regular basis. Excessive drinking is always the problem, time limits play no part there as hangover can last for couple of days after drinking.

Alcohol is there for social gatherings and it is desirable to use it wisely. A glass or two are enough to have fun.

Problem is that Emirates do want to control private lives of their employees. I know a cabin crew who got sick, so he was called for a meeting and accused of "clubbing and drinking" and having hangover (that guy resigned soon after that and went for a medical treatment as he had some rare disease).

It's not an unusual thing for ground staff to come to work straight from parties and celebrations. They have no holidays and no weekends, working 12 hours daily and almost no social lives whatsoever. But they just have to tag bags ans smile. If they try to actually do their job and present first security check point and to care who is boarding planes, they will be discouraged or punished. It's a very different situation for pilots and cabin crews. At least it should be.

This rule would pass much easier if the company would just give its employees enough days off to socialize, go to clubbing, go out, drink with friends. But when employees don't have that, many anomalies will show up. Especially in bad working conditions and overall staff dissatisfaction. So, it's just another unwise pressure (probably religiously motivated) which will come back to hit the management in the head.

Edit:
And this "3rd party notifications for suspected drug or alcohol misuse" really opens up some space for suspicious activities and abuse.

[Rather Be Skiing]

I understand FR has now resigned her position. My guess is her replacement won't be good for the medical department or crew.

'Good-bye Tomorrow' to be the new catch phrase?!

[Desert Dawg]

@RBS,

Any idea why she resigned..? Any clues..?

[Rather Be Skiing]

@RBS, Any idea why she resigned..? Any clues..?

Not firsthand. Heat from more than one front including, apparently, the GCAA.

[Dropp the Pilot]

I think you should start drinking. Then you'd have an excuse for being patently unhinged.

Thanks for making my year with "I no longer work for Emirates" though, that news is far more magical than anything I got for Christmas.

[Eau de Boeing]

MATRON....!!!

Bring the jacket.:bored:

[Will Rogers]

Eeee...wow! Great post mensaboy :ugh: And I thought "mensa" somehow implied intelligence...

Moving on... (as should you)

[777boyindubai]

Mensa. I used to enjoy some of the posts before you disappeared. Sorry to say your post leaves a lot to be desired. All the best for 2015.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Mensachild- What a terrible slanderous post. I hope WhiteKnight has the dignity not to respond to you. I echo Dropp, in stating I am glad you no longer work for EK. You have no place in any flight deck in any airline.

I sincerely wish you all the best for the future though and have a wonderful 2015.

[Am NOT Sure]

Mensaboy

I truly wish I had the honor to fly with you before u left

U speak wise words

[drop kick]

Mensa is completely right about the company / Dubai and it should serve as a warning to anyone considering this place as a carer option. The further insult is that it is not also that easy to leave when you are here. Any debt, property, schooling, bonds only serve as serious ties to this sh@t hole.:D:D

[777boyindubai]

Agreed re EK and Dubai and Mensa's comments. I'm not a fan of WK but attacking him like Mensa did wasn't cool. It is a shame as Mensa was one of the few contributors here who could put together a well reasoned post. Attacking WK detracted from the disaster that EK has become.

[BANANASBANANAS]

To get back on thread.

We are short of pilots and can therefore expect phone calls asking us to fly on days off. The logical response to such a request is to state that you are unable to help due to the new EK screening policy making agreeing to such a request a threat to your licence.

[777boyindubai]

Is the right answer. Let us treat them with the same dasdain that they treat us with. Maybe TCAS can fly as he is a "captain". Oh I forgot. He ain't type certified for anything in our fleet.

[gehenna]

Yes he is; you forgot the crew-bag :}

[Nikita81]

Dear mensaboy,

Don't know you but I felt like saying something because I think we have the same (temperamental) sensibility.

Completely agree with you regarding Dubai (and EK). Even writing something about materialistic and superficial "culture" of Dubai and its impact on expatriates and locals.

Regarding your "attack": I respect people who are open and honest in their opinion on others. I like people who tell me in the face what they think of me instead of stabbing me in the back. So this "attack" of yours makes me see you as a sincere and clean-handed man.

Good luck in everything you do.

D.

[White Knight]

So Nikita 81, do you think it's acceptable behaviour to slander someone on these message boards if you have NEVER met them?

If you think that to be true then I pity you...

[Nikita81]

So Nikita 81, do you think it's acceptable behaviour to slander someone on these message boards if you have NEVER met them?

No. But don't take it personally. We are all online avatars here. No one's real personality can be seen on the internet.

At least you got a chance to defend yourself and change his opinion. Still better than being stabbed in the back.

After losing my back in many stabbings I really learned to appreciate people who slander me openly. I even became friends with some of them.

Many things on this world would be better if people would just be honest to each other.

[GA Button]

Amen to that.

[flyonthewall]

If Dr Fi has in fact resigned you are all in much deeper **** than you were in yesterday.

[BlankBox]

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/72072554cc.png

...maybe good doc should check her pdf handout...seems booze is least of the problem there...from above pic crotch crickets maybe more relevant.. Happy New Year all !!!:ok:

[SOPS]

Have to agree with flyonthewall.

[jack schidt]

Dr Fi is (was) one of the most honest Doctors in EK. IF? she has resigned then yet again Emirates have "enabled" an incredibly able and capable person to leave office.

The poisned Gnome was trying for that position in the past, as we all know, little people are angry spiteful people and seem to have an agenda to proove themselves with abuse of power.

If this rumour is true then we will all need a BMI of 15 and a height of 4ft 0 to appear normal (oh and of course about the booze, don't ask).

I sincerely hope that the comments and sentiments from some idiots here have not helped lead her to this "rumour" decision to quit!

[JAARule]

Garbage. Any doc here who took the oath but still knowingly subscribed to the well-known system of lies, deception and manipulation is a part of the problem and should hang their head in shame. If you're afraid of a doctor worse than the VP then you're either a woos or a borderline medical case.

Rex, someone speaking his mind and suitability for cockpit service are two very different things. Saying someone shouldn't be working in an airliner because you disagree with his way of stating an opinion is a tad ignorant wouldn't you say? It seems to be a common response though.

Whitey, sorry but it's only slander if it's not true.

[fatbus]

The Drs are not here for you they are here for the company, to do as the company says. It goes against every and all of their oath's. Sad but that come straight from the VP.

[JAARule]

That's absolutely spot on, Fatty.

[Old King Coal]

There is a somewhat out of fashion term that was once the watchword of professionals (including Doctors of Medicine) and that word is 'integrity'.

Who (in their right mind?) would ever seek to be diagnosed and / or treated by a doctor in Dubai (and / or, come to that, anywhere in the Middle East)?! Geesh, even (and indeed especially so) the leaders of these nations (and senior VP's in various airlines too) regularly choose to fly overseas to (dare I say it) '1st world nations', when their own health is at stake. Basically they (i.e. the doctors here) are not trusted... go figure?!

My experience of doctors in Dubai is that they are far more interested in lining their pockets first, than in making any honest diagnosis, prognosis, and treatment. Indeed the typical first contact one has with their medical practice's will be with their insurance claims operative, i.e. the one whom checks that you're sufficiently well-insured before you can visit with a Doctor.

Wrt doctors here, it seems more about self-aggrandisement first and patient care second! :mad:

[777boyindubai]

Your Majesty,

How right your are about "integrity." There are sooo many pilots bashing down the doors at EK after doing three man ULRs saying their integrity won't allow them to do this again and that they have reported EK to the FAA etc. Plenty of us have done India turnarounds exhausted. None of us ever drink before a flight. Shag one of the cc whilst we are away from our families. Etc. Personally, I've had enough of being fatigued. I am leaving after the school year. I put my money where my mouth is.

Please accept a little wisdom from somebody familiar with EK and the Clinic. I'm not a big fan of FR. But, she is a good lady and doctor. She is highly qualified. She was considered the best of a "bad" list of candidates for the job as Mr. Turner couldn't find someone with the relevant qualifications of having the right certficates and who bent over enough to take all the pilot and crew screwing for the lousy salary offered. It is (was) a second salary as her husband is a Captain. He (TS) has been quite dignified and not commented here. Well done Tim!!

FR fought for a lot of people. Believe me. If she has resigned (I hope she has for her own health) then that makes two Medical Depatment VPs who have resigned in around two years excluding AH who left to Aus. She was bullied by RT and others. No arguments.

I think that there has been around an 80% turnover in EK Clinic doctors (not to mention support staff) during my time here. Well done RT!! You bullied out people with integrity. AM left Family Medicine (due to bullying and the fact that she didn't want to compromise care) and now FR. Dr. KD also left due to having integrity and fought Mr. Turner over fatigue issues. The GCAA were the ones that brought in the alcohol thing. Not FR.

I don't think you will find many of us at EK who have a lot of bad things to say about the Drs at the Clinic. My wife and kids have had great care as have I. The dental service has been excellent, too. These people earn lousy money considering what they can earn outside.

Just as not all doctors have integrity, neither have some pilots. There are a number of good doctors here. You just have to know who.

Rant over. I'm off to find an A vs B thread or take on Flion for some Yank bashing :)

Happy New Year to all :ok:

[Mister Warning]

Ladies and Gents. I left EK five years ago. My final year there I almost met the company target of 900 hours. (Note the term target not limit).
Just added up my hours for 2014 and only pipped 300.
I cannot tell you how different I feel physically, mentally and emotionally.
Like hitting your head against the :ugh:, you don't realise how much it hurts until you stop.
There are better options out there.
Good luck all.

[Alconguin Crusader]

I don't think any pilot that has left Emirates has ever looked back and they certainly don't regret their decision.

[shiftpattern]

FR was very fair in the way she dealt with people. She went in to bat for plenty of people, including me, so yes, I may be a bit biased. She might have cold hands but her heart is in the right place. If there were fewer pilots compromising their own 'integrity' by being less than discreet in their actions then we would never have come to this. It's unfortunate that once again the company has taken a 'lets punish the whole kindergarten class' approach to a few bad apples, but that's how they have always reacted.

[777boyindubai]

Al and Shift. Spot on analysis. Thanks.

[Old King Coal]

Wrt 'integrity', here's a possibly pertinent passage & lesson from history....A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.

- Cicero (born 106 BC – died 43 BC)Cicero, On Treason

[777boyindubai]

FR resigned. Officially. She was pushed out. A good doctor. Who did a lot for the pilots. Two VPs resigned in less than two years. Not to mention the practice manager who just left to Dnata. Congratulations to the two Richards (Dicks) and Danny. Morons without integrity.

[DCS99]

Call them on the new 600 number!

[Chewthecrude]

From Etisalat regarding 600 numbers

Charges

Subscription Charges 300
Rental Charges 500 / quarter

Usage charges are charged to the customer making the call to the 600 number
Type of Usage Usage Charges
Peak Off Peak*
Fixed-line phones 0.18 / min 0.09 / min
Mobile telephones Standard Mobile Charges
International calls Calls made to Service 600 numbers will be charged at a rate set by the caller's local operator
*Off Peak Time:02:00- 04:00 and 00:

[Rather Be Skiing]

From Etisalat regarding 600 numbers Charges Subscription Charges 300 Rental Charges 500 / quarter Usage charges are charged to the customer making the call to the 600 number Type of Usage Usage Charges Peak Off Peak* Fixed-line phones 0.18 / min 0.09 / min Mobile telephones Standard Mobile Charges International calls Calls made to Service 600 numbers will be charged at a rate set by the caller's local operator *Off Peak Time:02:00- 04:00 and 00:


Interesting. Folks in the medical department must have read your post; the number is not changing because of the charges. 😃

[Kapitanleutnant]

Just got an email from Dr. Richard stating the Clinic number would NOT be changed. They didn't realize it was a charged service.

Maybe there is some intellect at this company…

K

[Dropp the Pilot]

Bench that excuse to use it should you ever be called in for tea and bikkies:

"It's true my fuel use is higher than my colleagues, I did not realize it would take full power to taxi with the parking brake on."

[fatbus]

Goes to show you how the company is managed.

[777boyindubai]

What a great name for the SVP of the clinic. Mr U Turner. :ugh:

[777boyindubai]

Kap. RT is a nurse. With an MBA. Never run a primary care clinic before joining EK. He is a leader in losing the most VPs in 15 months. Staff turnover is the highest of all departments I've heard of. He is giving IFS a run for their money. And now this U turn. Keep Recovering. Go and see a doc. If you can get an appointment. RT. You want to charge me 400aed for missing an appointment. What happens when the clinic cancels due to sickness with less than 24 hours notice. Can I bill the clinic 400aed? Why don't you get more doctors, dentists, nurses and hygienists?? Try paying them properly!! And try leading with honesty and integrity!!!

[vfenext]

777boy you definitely need a holiday. Your posts are starting to sound like a man possessed. You've resigned so calm down and leave the rest of us in peace. Yes yes, we know EK drove you to this madness and it's the worst place/airline in the world and nobody but you has any integrity blah bla blah etc etc. We've read your sermons now go away and watch Frozen so you can sing "Let It Go" as you waltz out the door.

[Nikita81]

Your posts are starting to sound like a man possessed.

Funny. I would say the same for your posts. Possessed by EK management trolls and bullies. :}

[777boyindubai]

Vfenext. You are right. I am very angry at EK and the ****bags that have destroyed our terms and conditions. The clinic is just one of many examples. Good medical coverage was one of the great things in the package that I was sold on. It's impossible to get to see a hygienist. It's impossible to get to see a good paediatrician. Deductions galore. Claims that either disappear or don't get paid for some garbage excuse. Good staff disappearing. I will say what I want when I want. Thank you. I only wish I would have listened to what I read here before coming to EK. For people who do read, I want to nominate some of the best posters. Donpizmeov, Gulf News, Flion, Kaptenlutenant, Big Geordie and Toga! Please go back and reread their posts. I should also mention EGGW. Wise people. People like me should have stood up years ago. But I didn't. I am now. I won't let EK get away with anything now. After I leave I will still visit here regularly.

[777boyindubai]

As I say. I'll have my say when I want. Keep defending the company.

[Nikita81]

dcbus: No wonder management treats EK Pilots like kids. With the level of maturity and common sense seen here; we deserve it.:(:{

Yes you do. Only you.

[777boyindubai]

Enjoy your day DC. Take it easy.

[vfenext]

777boy repeat after me "Let It Go, Let It Go......". Hahaha!!!!!

[777boyindubai]

Let what go? Be specific please? My my the management boys and girls are busy today. Fancy a Costa?

[vfenext]

Seriously, I must thank you for some of the most entertaining posts. It's not everyday you see someone losing their mind in public. It all began with a small amount of credibility until the love-in with Nikita. It then descended into full on farce. We will all miss the entertainment value/madness in your posts when you leave.

[777boyindubai]

An excellent comment. Thank you for that.

[GNL]

Cant wait to see which forum he reappears on..... :rolleyes:

[JAARule]

Who is this "poisoned gnome"?

[SOPS]

If you don't know who the gnome is, ask some questions, serious questions, to those around you. He is big trouble, and once he has got you, he won't let go. He was part of my reason for leaving..he made my life hell for months, and at the end of it all, for no reason.

Anyway, I think I might open another red...........

[Payscale]

It's very easy. Don't go and see him and he will be promoted out of the position.

[Kapitanleutnant]

The Gnome is leaving end of March.... His last week!!!

I believe the EK pilot shortage just ended....

K

[LongRangeNav]

Best news in a long time. Good for everyone, he can take his political/self promotion agenda elsewhere. Unfortunately, as usual, there will be someone else willing to fill his vacuum!

[VLS with ice]

Great news!

[SOPS]

Where is he going? We should warn them.

[JAARule]

Okay the silent vowel threw me. I had an encounter about ten years ago. Never again. The reputation is spot on.

[sluggums]

Totally confused, as usual. Are you referring to TCAS, if not, then who?

[ruserious]

Take the G off the Gnome :O

[sluggums]

Ahhhhh, got it. Thx

[jack schidt]

This will be my second best day ever in Emirates when that poisoned dwarf the little sheet Gnome goes.

J

[SOPS]

If I knew he was going, i may have stayed a little while longer, then again.....maybe not. He did however, make my life hell for several months, all for no reason.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Well, evidently he was asked to stay and is now still here at EK… The Gnome remains!!!

[SOPS]

Good luck to all!!

[Capric]

He has definitely resigned now and the resignation has been accepted .

[Kapitanleutnant]

That should now FINALLY put an abrupt end to the pilot shortage at EK!! Hopefully no more shenanigans like his to cause grounding for absolutely illogical reasons. It's a fine day at EK!

Unless he's going to head up the GCAA??
Oh nooo….. :-)

[SOPS]

That is a good question...where is he going?

[Capn Rex Havoc]

He's retiring and moving in next door to you SOP.