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G&T ice n slice
20th Dec 2014, 15:38
My mother told me that she remembers her grandmother telling her about the "starving children in Africa".

So at a quick guess that would mean that the children have been starving in Africa for at least 150 years.

So despite everything here we are with "feed thur wu-rurld la de la di la di la di feed thur wur-urld" over and over and over again until somebody snaps and is up the top of a tower because they don't like mondays.

So, they're starving in Africa, as usual, no change there, change the record. They were staring in Africa 150 years ago when my mother's grandmother was a child, they were starving in Africa when my mother's mother was a child, they were starving in Africa when my mother was a child, they were starving in africa when I was a child, they were starving in Africa when my nephews & nieces were children and they are staring in Africa now that my great nephews & nieces are children. An undoubtedly they will be starving in Africa when the next generation of my family appears.

And really, you know I DON'T CARE !!! it is NOT my fault, it has NOTHING to do with me, so please stop trying to intimidate me by using some sort of guilt mechanism to extract contributions from my hard-earned small pension to send to "starving children in africa" because it is nowt to do with me.

It's very simple

(1) get rid of all the goats
(2) sort yourselves out - you've had 150 years of the white man building the ports, the railways, the roads, the water, sewerage, telecommunications, the schools, the hospitals, the national institutions.

We've done enough, please don't bother us any more

OFSO
20th Dec 2014, 15:41
Could not agree more. And if I hear "Do They Know It's Christmas" One more time I will puke. For the arms purchasers, generals and dictators in Africa, EVERY bloody day is Christmas.

west lakes
20th Dec 2014, 15:45
So many years ago (50+) my mother worked for a couple who had been in Africa for the UN.
Even back then all the "charity" gifts of medicines and stuff was being diverted to "government" officials and being sold to the population at huge mark ups over the UK cost prices.

funfly
20th Dec 2014, 15:48
There is an argument that says that a starving child saved in Africa means five starving children to save in ten years time!

ATNotts
20th Dec 2014, 15:51
There is an argument that says that a starving child saved in Africa means five starving children to save in ten years time!

And another that says that if they weren't breeding like proverbial rabbits there might, just, be enough food and water to go around without the need for Sir Bob's intervention.

Buts that, especially for the world's religions, is rather controversial.

mattler
20th Dec 2014, 15:52
G&T - Some suggested reading for you: Confessions of an Economic Hitman (Perkins), and Tragedy and Hope (Prof. Quigley). In particular, pay attention to the activities of Cecil Rhodes in Africa.

I'm sure you'll see very quickly that your words "we've done enough" could not be more true in terms of African poverty, but for drastically different reasons than what you profess here.

OFSO
20th Dec 2014, 15:57
Ah yes, Sir Bob. The literal translation of his name into German is "Money Village".

Highly appropriate.

RedhillPhil
20th Dec 2014, 15:58
I've said it before and I'll say it again. They don't need food, they need vasectomies.

mattler
20th Dec 2014, 15:59
As a quick follow-up re: breeding like rabbits, that's a thought only a man could have.

Seven to nine children per woman is not a choice women make, it's a natural response to societal stressors on these women. Having babies in those conditions is life threatening for them. The same things were also happening in much of Europe 150 years ago too.

The fact is that when child mortality drops and female education increases (and only slightly at that), the number of children per women drops, almost instantly (in terms of historical timelines) to just over two children per woman.

It's happened many times before and is a well understood phenomenon.

om15
20th Dec 2014, 16:08
My Grandmother used to have a detailed knowledge about starving children in Africa ( I am unsure where she gained this information), it was mainly discussed when I was faced with a plate of her Brussels sprouts, or, even more unappetising, a bowl of Libby's instant whip.
It may well be that there never has been any starving children in Africa, ever, and this is a concocted myth devised by generations of Grannies and Aunties to force children to eat badly cooked, dreary and disgusting food.

Checkboard
20th Dec 2014, 16:24
I've said it before and I'll say it again. They don't need food, they need vasectomies.
Perhaps the UN agrees with you - if you believe the Catholic conspiracy theories:

?Mass sterilization?: Kenyan Doctors Find Anti-fertility Agent in UN Tetanus Vaccine (http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/mass-sterilization-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-un-tetanus-vaccine/)

SpringHeeledJack
20th Dec 2014, 16:48
My Grandmother used to have a detailed knowledge about starving children in Africa ( I am unsure where she gained this information), it was mainly discussed when I was faced with a plate of her Brussels sprouts, or, even more unappetising, a bowl of Libby's instant whip.
It may well be that there never has been any starving children in Africa, ever, and this is a concocted myth devised by generations of Grannies and Aunties to force children to eat badly cooked, dreary and disgusting food.

There might be something in it ;)

It's all a massive cluster-fxxx, those with influence have and are making a nice profit from Africa and the folks back home are saddled with the guilt of having used and abused Africa and are milked for donations from their wages to "Help poor little Umbngwei from suffering" through the media, and through taxes being sent in the form of Aid etc without being consulted or given a choice. It has been going on for ages and at some point it will have to stop. Any sympathy I have had with Africa has dissipated and now my horizon is local.


SHJ

G&T ice n slice
20th Dec 2014, 17:40
a bowl of Libby's instant whip

Instant whip? instant whip? Looxury, we used to dream of instant whip!

dazdaz1
20th Dec 2014, 17:43
Gave up donating money to Africa years ago (not because of dictators) what irked me was the salaries paid to the top people in Oxfam and other NGOs'

My donations now are to the Salvation Army and UK cancer research.

Loose rivets
20th Dec 2014, 18:33
The trouble starts when you see a particular face. Just one comes into focus in the sea of starving souls. The face I saw was of a 9 year old child called Aisatu.

Andrew Harding explained how her mother, Mariatu Kamara, had become ill with what was probably the Ebola virus, and she hadn't told anyone for fear of her children being left without care. She'd continued to carry a third child on her back.

I tried to find Rebanda or Rogbangba near to Sierra Leone. I don't know why. For a day or so I thought I'd fly there and find them which got a snortingly derisive comment from the Rivetess. "Some days, you can't even get to the town, how do you think you could survive there?" Some days I'd be fine, but others . . . she's probably right.

Little Aisatu was sitting by her little brother looking up at the camera. She radiated an astonishing intellect and it told us she understood her mother was being taken away. Then she started to cry.

I've been crying inside ever since.

Espada III
20th Dec 2014, 18:36
South Korea was in the same economic mess in the 1950s as the African countries were then (and are now). If SK can sort itself out into a modern self-sufficient, exporting nation, the Africans can do it as well. And SK has few natural resources; African countries have lots.

AtomKraft
20th Dec 2014, 19:07
It's unfixable. Better not to think about it, but give thanks it's not you, or yours.

Really, it's not fixable.

MG23
20th Dec 2014, 19:19
Gave up donating money to Africa years ago (not because of dictators) what irked me was the salaries paid to the top people in Oxfam and other NGOs'

I read a book a few years ago by a guy who'd spent months travelling across Africa, and one of his complaints was how much the price of everything went up when the 'charity' mob turned up in their SUVs to take all the rooms in the most expensive hotels.

As for 'feed the world,' I believe one of the main impacts of sending free food to Africa was to drive many local farmers out of business and make them reliant on foreign aid.

Keef
20th Dec 2014, 19:19
'Tis a mess.

Which isn't to say those who can should not give aid - but they should be sure it goes through channels that work. We tried to ship some stuff to a church in Tanzania, and were warned against doing so. It would, apparently, never get to its destination but would end up in a "government" warehouse.

Money sent there will reach its destination - or rather, a small percentage of it will. The rest will be taken in fees, taxes, etc etc etc.

We found a channel that does work (I won't say what it is, or he'll be visited by the local officials and that channel won't work any more). Some of our folks have been there to work on projects and confirm that goods and money have arrived safely.

I wouldn't send money via Geldof, for a variety of reasons. As I've written in here before, the answer is not to send food, but to provide education in how to grow food and - just as important - what food to grow. The folks we work with were trying to grow bananas, with no success. The agricultural experts in the UK explained that you can't grow bananas in Tanzania. That knowledge was in the Min of Ag in the capital city, but they didn't talk to the farmers out in the sticks.

We took the visiting farmers and clergy (some of them the same people) to the local agricultural college in Essex, where there were experts who'd worked in Tanzania who knew the local problems and how to overcome them. It was like seeing a light come on in their heads as the tutors explained stuff.

One of my favourite quotes is from Kung Fu Tzu:
If you plan for one year, plant rice.
If you plan for ten years, plant trees.
If you plan for a hundred years, educate men. (Or women!)

Fox3WheresMyBanana
20th Dec 2014, 19:36
Could never have worked.
I said so in 1985.
You have to fix the hole in the boat before you start bailing.
Educate men about equality for women, then legislate it, and enforce it.
Not just in employment, but women choosing their own lives.
Educate men about educating women, then educate women.
Islam does not want any of that (and nor do any of the other fundamentalist religions, like the Mormons). There's your problem.

Keef
20th Dec 2014, 19:40
The best educated (and brightest) person in the Tanzanian delegation that visited us was the wife of one of the clergy. She was the interpreter for the rest and as sharp as they come.

Agree in general, though, that equality for women has a way to go.

west lakes
20th Dec 2014, 19:51
The really annoying part of all this is the constant begging of the charities etc. for more and more money, with absolutely NO honesty about how it really gets wasted.

It makes them absolutely complicit in the fraud that goes on!

G&T ice n slice
20th Dec 2014, 19:56
G&T - Some suggested reading for you: Confessions of an Economic Hitman (Perkins), and Tragedy and Hope (Prof. Quigley). In particular, pay attention to the activities of Cecil Rhodes in Africa.

I'm sure you'll see very quickly that your words "we've done enough" could not be more true in terms of African poverty, but for drastically different reasons than what you profess here.

No, I don't think me wasting my time reading about the place will make one iota difference to my attitude.

Cecil R died 112 years ago - he is ancient history.

The white man put in place everything needed for Africa, but the "Big Man" politics of Africa have destroyed the place.

If Korea, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, VietNam have dragged themselves out of poverty starting with a lot less than Africa has, then the failure of Africa is to do with Africans.

Hand-wringing appologist "in a very real sense we are all-to-blame"-ers love to portray Africa as downtrodden "it's all the fault of the imperialist legacy" but they keep forgetting that they've all been independent for over 50 years and have had billions & billions thrown at them, to no avail (other than enriching the very few at the top).

No, turn off the record, turn off the "feed thur wur-urld la-di-da-dila-di-da-da".

Keef
20th Dec 2014, 20:02
The really annoying part of all this is the constant begging of the charities etc. for more and more money, with absolutely NO honesty about how it really gets wasted.

Actually, there is a teeny bit of honesty in that the UK ones are required to publish accounts, and from those some useful information can be seen - for example, the salaries of the directors and some of the staff.

If I'm thinking of giving serious money to a charity, I look first at the online accounts. It's not failsafe, but "no accounts received" means "no money from here".

There are some charities where I know the people involved and what they are doing.

AeroSpark
20th Dec 2014, 20:52
Stop sending them money, which doesn't get where its needed as Goodluck Johnathon or whoever the latest dictator is decides he'd prefer a new private jet, and send them condoms and birth control pills instead.
Harsh and unfeeling? Probably.

rh200
20th Dec 2014, 21:21
There no rocket science in it, its a multi variable problem and we only attack part of the problem.

A population will increase exponentially until balanced by outside forces, basic rule of nature. We have as a species charged that a bit, but only in certain culteral areas.

Cultures take time to change, it comes down to the forcing function, or you could apply it as some sort of time constant. We F%^ked with the joint, then got warm and fuzzy and went hands off because we became so called enlightened.

The end result is a people with only half their culture and no real means of controlling their own societies, and we stand back and throw food in.

Its like standing back at a fire and drip feeding fuel.

Whats the solution, well there is none that isn't going to be messy, so you get to choose, the slow burn messy, or the fast burn messy.

Anyway, think of the positives, it gives generations of huggy fluffies a Jihad to go to and self satisfy they are doing good for mankind. They can come back sipping lattes spending the rest of there life with that feeling of superiority.

Capetonian
20th Dec 2014, 21:26
This has all been posted before. I stopped giving to charities for Africa upon discovering the massive misuse of the funds throughout the chain.

To take a slightly different tack on this, Africa's biggest problem is Africans. South of the Zambezi, the current problems of ZA and ZW are blamed on Apartheid, the Nats, and the white racist governments, etc, in fact, anything except the real cause, Africans.

We have a sizeable segment of the black community who want to carry on bleating about being 'previously disadvantaged' and who have thus painted themselves into a corner where they will eternally play the victim.

Guess what? Under apartheid in ZA, the Indians suffered the same prejudice, racism, and lack of 'democratic rights' as the blacks. Instead of playing the victim, they got on with things, educated themselves, worked hard, and became wealthy and respected professionals, whilst the blacks fell further and further behind.

SMT Member
20th Dec 2014, 21:41
I'm not a racist, but I do have a rather robust attitude to your average sub-saharan, African, male. Got nothing to do with the colours of his skin, the country he hails from, or the religion he subscribes. It has, however, got everything to do with how he behave, talk and seemingly think.

And I'd better leave it at that.

I've never donated a single cent to any African cause, or any charity involved with Africa. In fact there is only one charity I support, and it's one a few former colleagues and I have set up ourselves, following a business trip. We are paying for all the expenses incurred running an orphanage housing around 50 kids, and have been doing so for 5 years now. We've seen some of our kids, who would probably otherwise have faced an existence as child laboureres (included in the sex trade), graduate from school and go on to colleges on stipends. We have seen other graduation from the school starting up their own business (at the age of 17, mind!), and we have seen yet others graduating to find an apprenticeship. In fact, we haven't seen a single graduate falling through - their level of self-esteem, their drive to succeed, and their incredibly high work ethics, is almost certain to ensure that won't happen. They all know they've been given a rare chance, and none of them is going to waste it.

I only wish our founds could stretch further, and we are engaging a few other guys and gals we know well, to see if they'd join.

PS
Our names are not found on the school; there are no pictures there of either of us; no plague advertising who's paying the bills, and when we visit (someone is there at least once a year) we are not paraded around as santa claus. We are not interested in any glorification, and in case someone from the press reads this the answer is NO.