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wings folded
18th Dec 2014, 14:30
I have been, for a while now, receiving Christmas Cards. Well, actually most of them are not cards at all, but emails with, usually, a stylised depiction of ice crystals, or a robin on a twig, or some improbably pure looking snow draped over a rural landscape.

Now, these greeting being sent to me are all going to exaggerated lengths to avoid actually mentioning Christmas. e.g. "Happy Holidays", Happy Festive Season", "Season's Greetings"

This has me puzzled.

I hold no Christian belief, but I am likewise not offended by receiving a card around the time of an event in the Christian calendar.

But if the purpose of all these verbal gymnastics is to avoid upsetting non Christians, would it not be simpler just to avoid sending them a card at this time of year?

And send Christmas greetings to those known not to be offended.

Or just not bother.

Bah, humbug

rgbrock1
18th Dec 2014, 14:36
wings:

As you undoubtedly already know, it's called being "politically correct." Don't want to hurt anyone's sensibilities now do we?

I, on the other hand, couldn't care less about "sensibilities" and political correctness so when someone wishes me a "happy holidays" I respond with "and a merry Christmas to you too."

wings folded
18th Dec 2014, 14:44
Don't want to hurt anyone's sensibilities now do we?

So, don't send the fragile little tulips a card then.

Lonewolf_50
18th Dec 2014, 14:54
Merry Christmas to you, wings.
Sorry, couldn't afford the postage to send you a lovely picture of a robin in a snowstorm. ;)

Andy_S
18th Dec 2014, 14:57
So, don't send the fragile little tulips a card then.

Trouble is, their feelings might be equally hurt if they didn't get a card.......

wings folded
18th Dec 2014, 15:00
Lonewolf,

You have irritated me shitless with your invocation of a Christian event.

I think I will go and set fire to a Methodist Chapel.

(Oh, and Merry Christmas to you and those close to you):)

Mechta
18th Dec 2014, 15:08
No other religion tiptoes around the sensibilities of the others when it comes to celebrating their major festivals, so why do Christians, either practicing or non-practicing, feel the need to do so? I have yet to come across anyone of any faith, or none, who feels offended by Christians calling their festival Christmas; after all, why should they?

This might be a bit extreme, particularly if the shop owner is of a different faith, but you get idea:

ln01p1M2cH0

Mechta (an agnostic fundamentalist... :p)

Lonewolf_50
18th Dec 2014, 15:17
Lonewolf,

You have irritated me shitless with your invocation of a Christian event.
Sir Wings:
At our age, whatever we can do to assist in the bowel movements is offered up. I am now off to eat an entire wicker basket. :}

charliegolf
18th Dec 2014, 15:20
I/we only send religious Christmas (never Xmas) cards. For some of us it commemmorates Christmas, for everyone else is demonstrates the origin of the holiday ithat is, er, Christmas. End of.

Have a happy and holy Christmas everyone.

CG (Humbug and Bah) (Geddit?)

OFSO
18th Dec 2014, 15:59
This is why I sent around 50 electronic cards this year.

The Spanish post office won't accept envelopes which are bigger (or smaller) than a certain size; which are a strange colour, i.e. red or green or blue and not white; which have the address written in a strange colour, i.e. anything other than black or blue ink; which ooze glitter dust; or which "feel funny in the opinion of the post office operative". Oh and the stamps are expensive in Spain and a certain number never arrive anyway.

And you'd think that as we fall out with people/people die/move away with no address/get abducted by aliens - the list each year would get shorter. Not a bit of it. So we just cut the list down to close friends and family which came out to around 25, and as I started by saying sent the rest a "Jacquie Lawson" and putting the money saved on cards and stamps in the poor box of our favourite charity.

If I can find it, BTW, I will eventually post on PPRuNe the most tasteless card I ever saw.....it's around somewhere, having been too tasteless to send to my worst enemy on Jet Blast.

tony draper
18th Dec 2014, 16:25
I suppose those Druids had to be careful about sending pictures of Robins sitting inside wicker work cages at the midwinter hols to those new fangled bloody Christians.
:)

wings folded
18th Dec 2014, 16:36
And absolutely no mention of the solstice.

Cards back then read "Happy time of the year when, err, daylight changes a bit"

ExSp33db1rd
18th Dec 2014, 20:40
A Merry Christmas to all my readers.

Presently working on hijacking the Sun, to stop it going back to all you b****rs next week - except that it has been in hiding for the past week,

I think for the first time in my life, anywhere, I had to use the car windscreen wipers on Fast last night, and I started wondering about the aquaplaning capabilities of my tyres. Summer ? don't make me laugh.

reynoldsno1
18th Dec 2014, 22:29
I have attempted to find some pagan cards, but have come up a blank. Maybe that's it, send out totally blank cards next year ...

mikedreamer787
19th Dec 2014, 05:02
There was one in the US (SFO) yonks ago Mr reynolds that went like... "Happy Caligula Christmas"

Opening the card found the (as I recall) message "May this special time be filled with total drunken revelry and your favorite deranged sexual practices".

There was a pic of a Roman feast on the other side of the message and underneath one of those large-boobed Roman Goddesses (Hera?)

Silly me didn't buy the bloody thing and one probably can't obtain it now. :(

Effluent Man
19th Dec 2014, 08:01
A house near me has a tiny wreath fixed to the front door over the message "This is as merry as we get"

Ancient Mariner
19th Dec 2014, 10:00
Here we call Christmas Jul (Yule) and you will find plenty of Yule cards with either scenic winter motives or picturing our Julenisse (Santa Claus).
The Julenisse is small, wears a knitted sweater, red knitted hat, homespun breeches and knitted stockings.
They live in the mountains or in farmer's barns. If the farmer is good to them, they look after and protect the animals, if not.................
Yuletide to us is celebrating the winter solstice, the "vinterblot".
Then you have a few religious people of course, I don't know what they do.
Per

Capetonian
19th Dec 2014, 10:15
My list of Christmas card recipients has dwindled over the years. I posted all four earlier this week! If anyone's interested I bought a pack of 6 and two are up for grabs!

One of the reasons I don't post cards any more is the reason mentioned by OFSO, it's just too complicated, getting stamps for umpteen different countries, working out which sizes are allowed, looking up postcodes. Can't be arsed.

I send a number of Jacquie Lawson cards too but that has also dwindled.

I am about to give some cash to friends who are greatly in need and whom I know will appreciate and make good use of it, and I feel that is a better cause than a conventional charity.

I won 24 bottles of excellent wine (Zevenwacht) a few weeks ago so that will take care of drunken debauchery and gifts, so it won't be an expensive Christmas.

mikedreamer787
19th Dec 2014, 10:20
I am about to give some cash to friends who are greatly in need and whom I know will appreciate and make good use of it, and I feel that is a better cause than a conventional charity.

The Salvos are always a worthy exception Cape but overall your line above makes bloody good sense. :ok:

Tankertrashnav
19th Dec 2014, 10:39
Re robins on Christmas cards.

The received wisdom goes that around the time the first Christmas cards were being sent (mid 19th century) postman wore red waistcoats and were nicknamed "robin redbreasts". As they became associated with delivering Christmas cards, the robin itself started appearing on the cards.

Personally think this a load of tosh which would earn me a hooter on QI if given as a reason, but I dont really know. Must ask Stephen Fry!

Oh, Merry Christmas everyone, and a festive punch in the nose to anyone who wishes me "Happy Holidays".

;)

mikedreamer787
19th Dec 2014, 10:45
Happy HOLIDAYS Mr trashnav! :)


ouch!......:ouch:

Exascot
19th Dec 2014, 10:55
I always say 'Seasonal Greetings' not to be f:mad:g PC just that I don't want a Happy Christmas I want a Happy Whole Year. It floors them across the pond when you get the 'Have a Nice Day' and I say, 'No thank you I have made alternative arrangements'. :p

Checkboard
19th Dec 2014, 11:20
Don't want to hurt anyone's sensibilities now do we?
So, don't send the fragile little tulips a card then. Having never seen any of my Atheist, Jewish or Muslim friends complain about receiving a Christmas Card - but being quite familiar with a few of these "Damn the "Happy Holiday" card" rants, it seems to me that the Christians here are the "fragile little tulips." :rolleyes:

I generally buy "Happy holiday" cards and send them because:


I, myself, am not religious - so it isn't appropriate for me to send religious greetings for a religion I don't actually profess to (although I'm not anal about it - I still share the cultural history.), and
I honestly don't know the religious leanings of many of my friends (who knows who is a believer these days?), and
I send the cards at Christmas time (which happily corresponds with festivals for quite a few religions) because that Anglo-Saxon cultural history reminds me to be thankful of friends and family at this time of year.

Lon More
19th Dec 2014, 11:59
Reynolds No 1 try googling pagan solstice card. Plenty there though as the Winter Solstice is Dec. 21 you might be a bit late

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/Badyin/BlessedYule12_zps6325494a.jpg (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Badyin/media/BlessedYule12_zps6325494a.jpg.html)

PPRuNe Scrooge of the Year? Got to be the person advocating buying a box of Ferrero Rocher and substituting sprouts for the chocs to give to trick or treaters. I hope you liked the burning dog shit parcel left on your doorstep :rolleyes:

funfly
20th Dec 2014, 15:08
'Christmas' is the name given to this time of the year because it is the time when Christians celebrate the birthday of their Christ.
As an atheist it doesn't offend me, it's as good a name for the holiday as anything else.
I call easter 'Easter' and, to be honest I havn't a clue what the word easter means.
Micklmass - now what's that all about?
FF

wings folded
20th Dec 2014, 15:26
Not an expert, being a devout non-believer, but Michaelmas is the name given to a university term, deriving its name, it would appear, from the saint's day of Michael which is 29th September.

The other two terms are Hilary and Trinity.

I do not believe that the Hilary term derives its name from Mrs Clinton.

Tankertrashnav
20th Dec 2014, 16:41
Apparently because the feast of St Hilary is on the 14th January, around the beginning of the term.

Unlike Mrs Clinton this Hilary was a bloke by the way, there's a parish dedicated to him down our way.

funfly - re Easter, apparently we Christians nicked that one too!

The modern English term Easter, cognate with modern German Ostern, developed from an Old English word that usually appears in the form Ēastrun, -on, or -an; but also as Ēastru, -o; and Ēastre or Ēostre. The most widely, though not unanimously, accepted theory of the origin of the term is that it is derived from the name of a goddess mentioned by the 7th to 8th-century English monk Bede, who wrote that Ēosturmōnaž (Old English 'Month of Ēostre', translated in Bede's time as "Paschal month") was an English month, corresponding to April, which he says "was once called after a goddess of theirs named Ēostre, in whose honour feasts were celebrated in that month".

Now how many of you pagans who are always banging on about Yule, Beltane, etc knew that one as well?

wings folded
21st Dec 2014, 15:17
The Christian church, in all its manifestations, has always been rather good at latching on to a well established non christian event or festival to superpose its version of why that date is significant.

So here we are at Christmas / solstice / yule / bugger, I am fed up with shortening days,

and the Christian Church has fixed the 25th as the day. Every year.

What really puzzles me is how the same outfit can move around the dates of celebration of other significant events in their calendar: the crucifixion, the resurrection and all the other dates that bear a fixed relationship to Easter, when Easter itself shifts about all over the place.

I read an explanation which appeared reasoned enough, which was that the date of Easter varies with the lunar calendar.

So, all premissed upon secular planetary phenomena, then?

One might have thought that the date of the death of the adored Christ would be known and fixed.

The date of the death of anybody famous is generally well documented. The date of their birth a lot less so, because at birth, they were not famous. Obviously

Tankertrashnav
21st Dec 2014, 15:46
I read an explanation which appeared reasoned enough, which was that the date of Easter varies with the lunar calendar.


I was taught that it was the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring equinox, which I think is usually March 20th.

All seems pretty straightforward to me!

(PS - days getting longer from today, foldie)

wings folded
21st Dec 2014, 15:59
I was taught that it was the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring equinox, which I think is usually March 20th.

All seems pretty straightforward to me!
For an event of such significance to Christians, a simple date would surely suffice?

That would be straightforward

Espada III
21st Dec 2014, 17:09
Easter of course should coincide with Passover as it marks the events leading up to and after the Last Supper. The Last Supper was the Seder ceremony that Jews celebrate in their homes on the 15th day of the month of Nisan. The Early Christians wanted to create their own festival to differentiate their new religion from Judaism so amended the date calculation to that noted above. So whilst Easter and Passover frequently coincide they don't always.

wings folded
21st Dec 2014, 17:24
Anyone wiser than me able to explain the sometimes difference of date for Orthodox Easter and other Christian folk's Easter?

It seems to me that the death by crucifixion of Christ must have taken place on a given date. At least, the event appears to be recorded in the Gospels. Someone must have jotted down the date.

Unless it it is all a fiction.

Can our resident theoligists help?

421dog
21st Dec 2014, 17:36
Sitting in our Episcopalian(Anglican) house with all the lights off in acknowledgement of the solstice.

Not really clear on the concept, but then, I was dragged kicking and screaming I to this denomination at marraige.

foresight
21st Dec 2014, 17:42
Orthodox Easter based on Julian calendar, the 'other folk's' on the Gregorian calendar.

G-CPTN
21st Dec 2014, 17:47
It seems to me that the death by crucifixion of Christ must have taken place on a given date.
It was probably no big deal at the time - just one event among many other similar executions.

I'm not a scholar of theology, but the 'Annunciation' seems riddled with uncertainties - described as being 'in the sixth month' - was that 'June' (or whatever month corresponded to the then calendar)? - or was it the sixth month of the pregnancy? - yet the Annunciation is celebrated in March?

wings folded
21st Dec 2014, 18:10
Orthodox Easter based on Julian calendar, the 'other folk's' on the Gregorian calendar.
Thanks, foresight. I am not that thick. Now, why does the remembrance of the death of Christ wander about the calendar (whichever you choose) according to the phases of the moon.

If the whole tale is true, the date of his death must have been recorded. As a fixed date in either calendar. I don't care which.

If there is doubt, then it casts doubt. Naturally.