AA280 diverted

[IBMJunkman]

American Airlines flight diverted for sever turbulence (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102273072)

[Airbubba]

Most airlines have policies prohibiting flight into areas of known or forecast severe turbulence.

However, there are often severe turbulence advisories over southern Japan and Korea and it is almost impossible to avoid all risk in my experience. Also, the volume of traffic in that area often means that you can't change altitude easily to get out of the rough ride.

[glendalegoon]

It is sad to me that so far there have only been two posts on this topic...but thanks for the 2 posts!

Regarding Severe Turbulence...airbubba is right, flight into known, reported, or forecast severe turbulence is not allowed.

HOWEVER at least 20 years or so ago, the US wx service started providing a forecast for : MOGR turbulence. This means: MODERATE OR GREATER turbulence. A semantic way around severe turbulence.

IF there is suspicion of turbulence ahead, the prudent captain will have seat belt sign illuminated, advise flight attendance to secure cabin for rough air and advise passengers to make sure they have their seatbelts on securely (tight) and to secure their carry on luggage. Suspension of cabin service is a good idea.

OF COURSE if it is smooth, everyone will complain about not getting a bag of nuts. (korean aside).

AT our airline about 17 years ago, a 737 was at cruise, sign illuminated, passenger disobeyed sign, went to restroom, SEVERE CLEAR AIR TURBULENCE. MAN BOUNCED OFF CEILING IN RESTROOM< broke spine and became paralyzed.

Damage to ceiling of plane extensive.

Other precautions should be taken in terms of aircraft systems ( speed, ignition etc...and I prefer use of PITCH hold in autopilot systems, or whatever you call it in your plane)

Watching for sudden changes in SAT may clue you into possible CAT ahead!

[TowerDog]

. AT our airline about 17 years ago, a 737 was at cruise

Where was this...?

[Derfred]

Wow, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology forecasts severe CAT every other day of the week... If airlines here had such a policy they'd be grounded half the year. We often joke about cancelling the flight on the grounds that no professional pilot would deliberately fly into an area of forecast severe turbulence...

[Derfred]

Eg today:

YMMM SIGMET G01 VALID 170320/170720 YMMC-
YMMM MELBOURNE FIR SEV TURB FCST WI S5000 E15000 - S5000 E15700 -
S4700 E16200 - S4600 E15700 FL220/350 MOV ESE 35KT NC
RMK: ME EXTD G05 162320/170320=

[jolihokistix]

According to this J Yahoo headline article in Japanese, there were 12 casualties, including a woman with a cracked/broken cervical vertibrae, and a man with a cracked shoulder bone. Passengers described a service cart/trolley in mid-air.

Yahoo!???? - ?????????????????????? ?????????? (http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20141217-00000026-asahi-soci)

Photos from the Asahi:
??????????????????????????????? (http://www.asahi.com/articles/photo/AS20141217001101.html)

[Maxan_Murphy]

Video featuring obligatory screams and praying...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V21eV22fYxI

[Hotel Tango]

Maxan_Murphy, for a good many passengers that is probably their first experience of such heavy turbulence. I've been flying regularly (as pax) for 58 years and have never experienced anything more than light and, occasionally, moderate chop in all that time. I therefore have no idea how I would react to severe turbulence. It could well be :eek:

[JammedStab]

Some airlines seem to like to play with fire and ride the jetstreams enroute while hoping that the forecast moderate turbulence will turn out to be the frequently only light turbulence while having a willingness to accept moderate for a while and hope that it won't be unforecast severe turbulence.

Does your airline do this?

[WhatsaLizad?]

Jammedstab,

You aircrew?

:ugh:

[hkgmjq]

Interesting and descriptive account from 'calexandre' on this forum, who was apparently on the flight:

AA280, ICN-DFW, Diverts to NRT - Severe Turbulence Injures Pax - FlyerTalk Forums (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage-pre-merger/1637728-aa280-icn-dfw-diverts-nrt-severe-turbulence-injures-pax.html)

Wade through the chaff, it's worth reading his posts.

[bubbers44]

Severe turbulence reports Just tell you where and what altitude it happened and sometimes type of aircraft reporting. Other than avoiding being in that exact same spot it may be difficult or impossible to know exactly where it extends vertically and horizontally so securing the passengers and crew is imperitive. You may find changing course or altitude will avoid it but maybe not.

I found making another check with the FA's to make sure everyone complied is also very important. The airliner in front of me into Anchorage one night had three of their FA's go to the hospital. It took a 2nd call from me when I heard them not in their seats to sit them down.

[glendalegoon]

One thing about PIREPS of turbulence is some people haven't read the AIM and don't use the criteria published to report turbulence.

I have had severe turbulence twice in my 39 years of flying...knock wood.

So, you have to take precautions and a double call like bubbers said is the right thing to do.

ONE piece of advice I will give to fellow pilots is to make sure your seat belt is on TIGHT. IF you raise up in your seat in turbulence you will not be "ONE WITH THE PLANE" and you may over control or over react.

[glendalegoon]

it is important to have enough fuel to fly lower. one time, flying from NY to florida, the turbulence was awful (but not severe). went down to 14,000' for a smooth ride. burned ony 50 more gallons of fuel, but it was worth it.

sometimes it does not pay to go as high as you possibly can. one must be clever with turbulence.

I will say this though, the passengers these days are very inexperienced with things in aviation. not like the old DC6 and seven eights days.

[framer]

Most airlines have policies prohibiting flight into areas of known or forecast severe turbulence.
It must be different in different parts of the world. I've flown for three major airlines , one NZ , one in SE Asia, and one in Ausi, none of them had such a policy and it was common to route through forecast severe turb.
Does your statement apply to the US or to Europe ?
Cheers

[wiggy]

....it was common to route through forecast severe turb.
Does your statement apply to the US or to Europe ?


Our planners don't seem to have any qualms about us routing through forecast sevre turb, and FWIW it's not uncommon to see one or more of the North Atlantic Organised Tracks routed through areas of forecast Moderate to Severe

[DouglasFlyer]

The OM in our company (Swiss) mentioned: "Flights through areas with known or forecast thunderstorms, severe turbulence or wind shear should be avoided whenever possible due to the various hazards involved, e.g. hail, lightning strikes, gusts, up/downdraughts with subsequent altitude and/or attitude changes, high g-loads etc."

[neila83]

Jeez, looking at these as someone terrified of fairly mild turbulence, I would be taking a boat over the Pacific at the moment

Japan / Asia Turbulence Maps - 00 UTC - Turbulence Forecast (http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/japan-hawaii-asia-pacific.php)

I'd heard this about not routing into severe turbulence before, but looking at these I see that would ground pretty much anything between North America/Asia. So how, as pilots do you attempt to avoid it, given that this isn't associated with storms you can see on the radar? Some of these show it from FL460 downwards, leaving nowhere above or below. Is there an element of luck? Can you use general observations of wind patterns to assess where shear might be? very interested to know.

[WHBM]

Happened to me (as I suspect to a fair number on here) some years ago, I wrote about it on here previously. Ironically also AA, on LAX-LHR, over The Rockies (experience of that route is this is a regular hit point). Completely unexpected by crew. Diverted to Chicago, one FA injured by being thrown up and down. Needed a crew change before heading on to London. Although striking and breaking the lightweight ceiling panels looks spectacular, the injuries occur as you come back down again. The bulk of the problems, on discussion with the crew, were in the rearmost cabin and galley.

Drinks were being served in Y, notable was a glass of red wine just ahead which went up and then down some seats away in a parabola. The contents took a slightly different trajectory, and slowly came out of the glass in a mass, like something out of a Mickey Mouse cartoon, and came down all across one poor guy a seat or two beyond where the plastic glass landed. He was still wearing hugely stained clothing on arrival at Heathrow.

I notice on flights from London to the Far East/Australia that UK/Australian carriers will reroute around weather systems; the Asian carriers less so.

[misd-agin]

Neila83 - we operate with similar wx/turbulence conditions frequently, especially in the winter. So it's not uncommon to see weather charts similar to your link. It rarely reaches the level AA280 experienced.

[deptrai]

The OM in our company (Swiss) mentioned: "Flights through areas with known or forecast thunderstorms, severe turbulence or wind shear should be avoided whenever possible due to the various hazards involved, e.g. hail, lightning strikes, gusts, up/downdraughts with subsequent altitude and/or attitude changes, high g-loads etc."

clever wording, "should be avoided". makes me miss good old Swiss(air)

[IcePack]

Neila83 - we operate with similar wx/turbulence conditions frequently, especially in the winter.
In the company I used to work for, regularly used to plan us along the jet stream within the turbulent area (inc ocl sevr) to make use of the tail wind & reduce the fuel burn. As there were often others there I guess we were not the only airline. Funny old thing s**d the pax save the money. I hated it but that is what you get when pax want the cheapest fare. :mad:

[glendalegoon]

Just a couple of points.

Entering and leaving the jetstream can cause a bunch o turbulence, being right on the edge too.

IF you watch your OAT (or SAT or whatever) and you see a change in temp, it may be a warning of turbulence.

IF you ever want to see a hoot of a picture, see the film, "THE PILOT" with Cliff Robertson. It is pretty darn good. (if you like a bit of reality). There is one scene in which everyone is looking at the inside of the rudder trim cover plate on a DC8 and laughing.

SOME OF YOU MIGHT KNOW what they were looking at.

Its hard to find, but you might just learn something!

[Hotel Tango]

I hated it but that is what you get when pax want the cheapest fare.

Nothing to do with cheap fares. Back in the era of expensive fares airlines made use of the jet stream!

[IcePack]

Ht yep but not in the mod to severe turb part.

[changer]

IF you ever want to see a hoot of a picture, see the film, "THE PILOT" with Cliff Robertson. It is pretty darn good. (if you like a bit of reality). There is one scene in which everyone is looking at the inside of the rudder trim cover plate on a DC8 and laughing.
Ever since that movie I've always loved Cliff Robertson (God rest his soul), and considered him one of us, just for putting that scene in his movie. Nobody but a Douglas pilot could appreciate that trim cap scene.

Jeez, looking at these as someone terrified of fairly mild turbulence, I would be taking a boat over the Pacific at the moment

Japan / Asia Turbulence Maps - 00 UTC - Turbulence Forecast (http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/japan-hawaii-asia-pacific.php)


That chart shows 2-3 two areas of CAT (clear air turb) within the yellow dotted lines along AA280's probable route. I cross the Pacific 2-4 times every month. If we avoided CAT forecast areas on every flight, we'd never fly.

[glendalegoon]

changer...agree 100 percent, he was one of us. I knew a guy who gave Cliff Lessons, he flew the DC9 for the same place I work.

AS a movie it might be so so, as a PILOT thing, tis quite good. It is very interesting to see the rear fan on those engines. Douglas pilots know what its about!

I have a feeling that the passengers on this flight would be well served by watching "THE PILOT" and also "THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY".

oh well. I would be very concerned had BOEING said: WE POPPED A BUNCH OF RIVETS ON THIS PLANE>

[mikedreamer787]

I recall quite a while back suddenly running into your typical Roaring Forties unforecast Sev CAT going up to PEK. TAT dropped 5 deg in a split second but fortunately I already had the belt sign on while traipsing through mod turb. Lower levels not avbl as all the locals preplanned B300.

Bloody rough ride for an hour with continual eyeball bounce, but if the hatches and bums are already battened down there's no worry about the silly popular media and their idiotic circuses.

[serpilot10]

I wonder: the crew was not looking at the radar? Shove a CB is like playing roulette russ a.

[aterpster]

changer:

Ever since that movie I've always loved Cliff Robertson (God rest his soul), and considered him one of us, just for putting that scene in his movie. Nobody but a Douglas pilot could appreciate that trim cap scene.

No one but a Boeing pilot can appreciate the little hub caps on the control wheel (707 and 727 for sure).

[wheels up]

I regularly fly past the east coast of Japan and its always bumpy - reminds me of the BOAC 707 that disintegrated in severe turbulence passing Mt Fuji BOAC Flight 911 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_911)