PDA

View Full Version : Whataboutery at the UN!


John Hill
16th Dec 2014, 06:15
Accused of rights abuses, North Korea urges U.N. meeting on CIA torture (http://news.yahoo.com/accused-rights-abuses-north-korea-urges-un-meeting-003113249.html)

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - North Korea on Monday asked the United Nations Security Council to add the issue of torture by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency to its agenda as the council prepares to hold a meeting next week on alleged human rights abuses by the Asian state.

Yep, a nice bit of whataboutery!

chuks
16th Dec 2014, 06:27
Many countries practice torture. This inquiry is about the use of torture, among other things, by North Korea, which means that the use of torture by the USA is beside that particular point. To people with an "Oh look! A squirrel!" cast of thought, though, I can see the appeal in this lame move.

I think that a UN inquiry into our own misdeeds might be an interesting thing to see. Let's add Kenya to the list while we are at it, since the last inquiry into whatever it is their president got up to seems to have failed. Oh, and Zimbabwe. That Mugabe seems to be a rum cove. One at a time, though; no jumping the queue.

Does the USA run a vast chain of concentration camps that hold even three generations of a family, all imprisoned for having done nothing really wrong? Okay, we used to, but that was about 70 years ago, and nobody starved to death. I mean, today, in the way that North Korea does? Tell us more, John, because this is fascinating.

mixture
16th Dec 2014, 06:44
Does the USA run a vast chain of concentration camps that hold even three generations of a family, all imprisoned for having done nothing really wrong?

Well you have got Guantanamo Bay and the now infamous secret CIA prisons scattered around the world. Plus of course the contents of that report.

The US likes to take the old moral high-ground but sometimes an introspective kick up the backside would serve a useful purpose to bring the US down a notch or two to remind the US that its not exactly smelling of roses and has a bit of a "do as I say, but not as I do" attitude.

Of course North Korea is a slightly different league, but still doesn't mean the US should not clean up its own backyard and lead by example !

obgraham
16th Dec 2014, 06:47
We should simply follow the example set by the good Field Marshall, and feed our unwanteds to the Dogs. That way everybody, including the dogs, wins.

Well, except the eaten ones.

Trossie
16th Dec 2014, 07:18
Okay, we used to, but that was about 70 years ago, and nobody starved to death.OOOoooo......!!! You might want to rethink that one. Your gas chambers weren't as efficient as you might think.

The most significant point here is that there has been a US inquiry into US involvement.

About 70 years ago did the Germans hold an inquiry into their involvement, are the North Koreans now? The US is leading the way...

John Hill
16th Dec 2014, 08:04
The US is leading the way...

Oh yes, we can take comfort in that! The US also lead the way 66 years ago when people were tried and convicted for torturing prisoners. Some paid the ultimate price too for the more serious crimes such as water torture.

Somehow I expect it will be different this time eh?:(

rh200
16th Dec 2014, 09:24
Oh yes, we can take comfort in that! The US also lead the way 66 years ago when people were tried and convicted for torturing prisoners. Some paid the ultimate price too for the more serious crimes such as water torture.

Couple of minor points, John, is that your legal position or your moral position?

if its your legal position, to be fair they where talking about uniformed soldiers in WW11. Also you must have the exact legal definition in appropriate jurisdictions and the exact method used on the terrorists to be able to come to that conclusion?

chuks
16th Dec 2014, 10:24
Being savaged by a North Korean lap dog ... "Aaaah! Get it off me, get it off me! My pants cuffs!"

Yes, yes, "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of ..." what, exactly?

Seriously, let's unleash the UN on all the injustices of the world. Isn't that what they are paid to do, sort out the world's troubles? North Korea first, then us. Zimbabwe last, because of the way the alphabet is laid out.

pigboat
16th Dec 2014, 13:32
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of ..." what, exactly?
Ineffability? :p

OFSO
16th Dec 2014, 14:39
let's unleash the UN on all the injustices of the world

What do the UN and a chocolate teapot have in common ?

Lonewolf_50
16th Dec 2014, 21:17
let's unleash the UN on all the injustices of the world

What do the UN and a chocolate teapot have in common ?
The Lupine Guess:
They are like teats on a bull: bloody useless. :8

Do I move to the head of the class?

chuks
16th Dec 2014, 22:35
You can nibble on a chocolate tea pot. The teats on a bull, however ....

You really don't want to make this sort of careless statement, because it could lead to confusion, and the needless deaths of countless visitors from foreign lands. "But that nice man from Texas, he told us those teats were like a chocolate tea pot!"

No, not the same thing at all, the teats on a bull and a chocolate tea pot. Go to the back of the class!

rh200
17th Dec 2014, 00:17
let's unleash the UN on all the injustices of the world

Speaking of Olympus, I always thought the UN should be kicked out of the US, yes I know it would destroy some cafe's, but really.

Now I know Hollywood for years has taken a bit of the view in some movies that Geneva would be the Utopian place for it, bu I have a better Idea.

How about Jerusalem? Make the city into its own state like the Vatican and plant it there and they can govern it. :E

chuks
17th Dec 2014, 07:33
I remember a field trip to the UN in the early 60s, from our junior high school in Westport, Connecticut. (There is a good joke in there somewhere, for anyone who knows Westport in the 60s, but I just don't have time and space to sketch that out.)

There was still an aura hanging over the UN of its saintly former Secretary General having given his all, recently having died in a plane crash in the Congo, and our teachers were all on-message about how the USA had frightened poor Uncle Joe Stalin, thus starting the Cold War. Now we were off to see the semi-sacred institution that should sort out the mess we had made of things.

I think the low point for me was reading about Yassir Arafat addressing the UN General Assembly in uniform, sporting his little holster, although I later read that he was prevailed upon to leave its popgun behind before entering the sacred hall.

MagnusP
17th Dec 2014, 08:45
rh200, the UN does, of course, have a complex in Geneva, next to the International Labour Organisation. I'm sure that, if the HQ were to relocate to that complex, the Swiss would offer up some creative tax avoidance scheme for the overpaid and bloated bureaucrats. I'm surprised it hasn't been considered already. ;)

chuks
17th Dec 2014, 09:28
While the diplomats probably don't have to pay tax, I assume that the staff, wherever they are, do have to, whether that should be in New York City or in Geneva. I don't think that's a major consideration.

I think we are stuck with this big "talking shop" left exactly where it is. Where once we saw it as some sort of temple of peace achieved through reason, we may now usefully see it as a failed illusion.

"Come this way, children. We want to show you the lectern behind which Yassir Arafat once stood to lecture us about his people's right to use violence to achieve their ends.

"Later we shall go way downtown to visit the 9/11 memorial, but that is about terrorism, which is not the same thing at all as listening to an address about justified violence by Yassir Arafat.

"Here, by the way, is the place where the North Koreans recently delivered a request to consider our own use of torture along with considering their own. Some people seem to find that this was a clever and justified thing to do.

"Be very careful not to become confused by all this."

rh200
17th Dec 2014, 09:38
I think we are stuck with this big "talking shop" left exactly where it is.

Well there could be method in the madness.

You know the old saying, keep your friends close, and your enemy's even closer:E

Lonewolf_50
17th Dec 2014, 14:56
chuks, I accept your reprimand on mixed metaphors.
It's a fair cop, but society's to blame! :{

obgraham
17th Dec 2014, 18:00
Moving the UN to Geneva would be a great thing.

But it's hard enough now to get into a lunch restaurant there now, with all the coat-and-tie internationalists dining on their expense accounts. Add thousands more and it'll be chaos.

Lonewolf_50
17th Dec 2014, 21:00
Would Swiss be as forgiving of the parking ticket non payment as the NYPD is?

rh200
17th Dec 2014, 21:33
Would Swiss be as forgiving of the parking ticket non payment as the NYPD is?

Of course, Interest payments:p

Fox3WheresMyBanana
17th Dec 2014, 21:40
Slight thread drift to another International organisation
Oh,you're going to love this.

The EU now thinks HAMAS isn't a terrorist group
Netanyahu slams European "hypocrisy" as court orders removal of Hamas from terror blacklist - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/gaza/11298405/Netanyahu-slams-European-hypocrisy-as-court-orders-removal-of-Hamas-from-terror-blacklist.html)

obgraham
17th Dec 2014, 22:49
Would Swiss be as forgiving of the parking ticket non payment as the NYPD is? That would depend on the outcome of a referendum on the matter.