View Full Version : Are we really any safer?

13th Dec 2014, 02:43
My partner and I were cycling around Melbourne recently and dropped into Flinders Street station for a coffee. There was some rubbish on the table we chose so I picked it up and looked for a bin. There weren't any. When I asked at the information desk I was told it was a police directive so bombs couldn't be hidden in the bins.

All the time we were there, my bike was quite a few metres away, unattended with two large panniers on it and the police who passed by paid no attention to.

13th Dec 2014, 02:59
You're not suggesting that the terrorist 'threat' isn't much more than an excuse for a massive bureaucracy that exists solely to keep people in jobs, are you?

Don't be fooled, they're probably under your bed with a rusty carving knife between their teeth right now. Buy a gun.

Boudreaux Bob
13th Dec 2014, 03:01
But Hempy....you of all people know that Guns just are not the answer!

Clare Prop
13th Dec 2014, 03:21
Bins were taken off the streets in London back in the 70s because of the IRA

13th Dec 2014, 04:29
You've done it now, cycle panniers will either be banned or have to be licensed in the interests of security.

13th Dec 2014, 07:06
Bins were taken off the streets in London back in the 70s because of the IRA

Good simple solution to a problem. The extremists amongst us (lefty's) would have us just carry on as some Utopian people and do nothing.

13th Dec 2014, 07:06

No, I'm in Dublin Ave, the next one to the south of First Ave.


13th Dec 2014, 08:53

I may have, I would have to check my log book. I have owned VH-FJA since 1982.

13th Dec 2014, 09:07
Does anyone think we're safer because a goon in a cheap polyester shirt takes a nearly empty bottle of water off a small child at an airport, or tries to confiscate a 100ml. bottle of after shave because 'it looks like more than 100ml'?

Or because a goon in a cheap uniform makes you fill in your name and cellphone number when you enter a building?

Etc ......... ad infinitum.

13th Dec 2014, 09:25
plus the ones who really need to still invent new ways of getting things explode.

13th Dec 2014, 11:03
I sat down on a bench at Paddington station, day before yesterday, and noticed a rather full briefcase on the seat next to mine, with no apparent owner around.

I waited for about 5 minutes to see if an owner would come and collect it, then went to the nearest shop (15m) and asked the assistant to call security. She had no internal phone, or external for that matter, and looked up a number to call on her own mobile. After getting no response, she went off saying it would be easier to find a security man, or police officer.

While she was doing that, a cleaner, hi-vis and all, meandered up, carefully swept under and around the bench with the lonely briefcase, and meandered on. I was standing a short distance away while he did this.

The assistant returned, quite unconcerned, after an unsuccessful search lasting about 5 minutes. I then left the scene, firstly to go and get my train, and secondly to distance myself from the bang if it happened. On the way, I saw a Transport Police officer majestically going somewhere, festooned with accoutrements, and informed him that there was an unattended briefcase on the seat, which had been there for at least 20 minutes by this time.

From a safe (ish) distance, I watched him approach the briefcase, examine it from all directions, pick it up, shake it, and then open it to discover that it was safe.

I'm all for a bit of unflustered phlegm, even selfless bravery, in the right place, but shouldn't we take security a little bit more seriously at a major transport target, sorry, hub?

13th Dec 2014, 11:08
I'm all for a bit of unflustered phlegm, even selfless bravery, in the right place, but shouldn't we take security a little bit more seriously, at a major transport target, sorry, hub?

Its situation normal, usually from those who havn't been around that sort of thing. I have seen the same thing over here with security guards. You feel like a knob reporting it because its a 99.999% chance of being nothing, then some twit just comes and checks it out.

This will only occur until a couple go bang.

13th Dec 2014, 11:17
well, and then there's

The pilots of Instagram: beautiful views from the cockpit, violating rules of the air ? Quartz (http://qz.com/233165/the-pilots-of-instagram-beautiful-views-from-the-cockpit-violating-rules-of-the-air/)

13th Dec 2014, 11:51
Have you not realised that the enemy is not the nutter who plants bombs and kills people.

The enemy is YOU and ME because we question the Trillion $$$$ industry that has sprang up to give us the illusion that we are safe.

World Govts job is to justify its existence in knowing everything that you do, think and plan. Its so it can ensure its own existence, namely the trillions given to it to spend each year.

Any challenge to that means you are a threat.

13th Dec 2014, 11:57
I was told it was a police directive so bombs couldn't be hidden in the bins.

I was told exactly that in the 90's in London.

In Oz it's a case of "me to", trying to feel as important as the big cities.

But I reckon the real reason is much, much more darker than that - the bins fill up really quickly in that busy area and are difficult to access frequently to empty them without serious disruption to vehicle traffic.

13th Dec 2014, 16:02
This will only occur until a couple go bangAs a postscript......In the '70s we started doing baggage reconciliation checks as a matter of routine on boarding ('we' was an Arab airline based in the Gulf, operating into, around and out of the Gulf region). There had been some high-profile hi-jacks in the region, including one of ours (by a nutter with a fake pistol), and the threat level of an explosive device was high.

One day, after this had been going on for months, a bag was left all on its own after all the passengers had boarded, on the tarmac by the aircraft.

This was not unusual (usually the extra bag had simply been mis-loaded), and a loader carried it to the edge of the apron to be carefully taken away and blown up, as per routine, if it could not be identified and claimed. (By definition, there would not be a trembler or similar, so moving it would be safe, unlike one armed and left in a railway concourse.)

The aircraft (L1011) departed more or less on schedule, and climbed out to the East, over the ocean. Almost exactly as it reached top of climb, the bag on the apron exploded, taking the legs off a loader who was passing.

After that, the reconciliation check was given much more attention and care.

13th Dec 2014, 18:47
I was working in Paris a few years ago when police arrived to deal with an unattended bicycle with two carrier bags on the handlebars. They actually blew it up with a small explosive charge.

They were just sweeping up the remains of a bottle of wine, two baguettes and various cheeses, when an elderly gent emerged from a bar down the street, wiping his moustache, having been disturbed by the bang.

He was not pleased, and said things which in some countries, would have got him shot.

However to put it in perspective: Action Directe actually blew up the headquarters of the European Space Agency in rue Mario Nikis on August 3rd 1984, so terrorism in Paris has been around for a very long time.

13th Dec 2014, 19:30
I was waiting for my bag at LHR T1 and as always, mine was the last off. I noticed a very large and heavy looking and apparently unattended duffel bag behind one of the pillars. It had no visible label, and I wasn't about to pick it up to look for one. I kept an eye on it for a few minutes and nobody seemed to be watching it, no apparent owner, nearly everyone had moved on, so I went to one of the luggage counters and asked them to call security. The chap asked me where it was, but couldn't see it without standing up as it was out of his direct line of vision, and couldn't be bothered to stand up. He called security.

Five minutes or so later two men sauntered over, grinning, one picked it up, dropped it from a few inches, gave it a kick, then, apparently satisfied that he hadn't blown up the terminal, slung it over his shoulder and then dropped it into a luggage trolley and went off with it.

That makes us safer?

13th Dec 2014, 21:06
The perception is that we're not safer, so therefore more checks are needed. This makes a nervous and compliant populace and in the short term is a huge PITA, especially when you want to dispose of non carry able rubbish, rather than just toss it on the ground as so many do. The simple truth is if anyone who knows what they're doing were to do it, it would be happening all the time. They aren't, why would they ? We do however have hundreds, perhaps thousands of wannabe 'freedom fighters' ready to prove their allegiance to their cause by perhaps making devices from easily got substances and then doing something against their real countrymen in the name of another. These are the incidents that the security services must keep vigilant for.


13th Dec 2014, 21:11
These are the incidents that the security services must keep vigilant for.

Why does it always appear that Security sources were well aware of Jonny Jihadi, were security services involved in instigating idea of an attack as a means of justifying budget and existence ?

13th Dec 2014, 21:34
Posted on another thread .... Now that I'm over 80 I no longer have to be photographed and fingerprinted when I enter the USA on a Visa Waiver programme.

Standby for a spate of geriatric terrorists !

Last year I left Hawaii twice, once to the Mainland, i.e. Domestic, and finally Internationally to come home.

Leaving Domestic I was able to take advantage of a new rule allowing those over 75 to keep their shoes on when going through security, but when I departed International I was told by the Female African American (that's not being racist, just stating fact ) TSA Agent that I must remove my shoes "because I was International".

I was tempted to ask if it was therefore OK for geriatric shoe bombers to attack American aircraft, but not foreign ones, but decided that I would find myself in Guantanamo Bay being waterboarded in very short order, so kept my opinion to myself, but departing Hawaii this week - Internationally again - I politely enquired if I had to remove my shoes or not ? No, was the answer, you are over 75, so I related my experience of last year. Well, that TSA agent clearly didn't know what she was doing, I was told.

Is anyone surprised ?