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ChristiaanJ
11th Dec 2014, 18:12
Early 1950s, I actually got to sit in a Gloster Meteor (probably a Mk 4), on a Dutch airbase - that was still possible in those days.
And of course, I had a liitle diecast Dinky Toy Meteor on my bookshelf. Now long gone.....

So, seeing a Meteor flying again at this year's Farnborough obviously brought memories. And, a couple of days later, finding another little Meteor in a local 'collectables' shop, was a truly nice surprise.

And now I've discovered the same question I've asked myself many years ago...
On what Mark is the model (which supposedly dates from 1946) based?
The engine tail pipes are too thin for even a Mk 4. Is that the result of a casting problem, or was the original an even older Mark, with the narrower jet pipes?
(To see a photo of the diecast model, just google "gloster meteor dinky toy".)

Pure curiosity.... sure. But I'd surely be pleased and grateful to discover the answer after all those years!

henry_crun
11th Dec 2014, 18:32
I was lucky enough to sit in an F8 at Filton (thanks to my second-cousin war ace John Braham) and fly in a T7 from RAF Chivenor (CCF summer camp).

I had the original Dinky Toy and recall wondering about those exhausts at the time. Can't think of any reason for making them like that.

A later Meteor had alternative exhausts, normal ones at the rear and supplementary ones vectored downward, switched by a flap valve, for short take-off trials.

flydive1
11th Dec 2014, 18:55
F1?

http://www.airpages.ru/img/gm1_1.jpg

DaveReidUK
11th Dec 2014, 20:08
The engine tail pipes are too thin for even a Mk 4. Is that the result of a casting problem, or was the original an even older Mark, with the narrower jet pipes?Likely that it's either an F.1, as suggested in the previous post, or one of the early F.3 aircraft. Both were powered by the Welland, which had a considerably narrower jetpipe than the Derwent that powered subsequent aircraft:

http://www.airvectors.net/avmeteor_04.png

ChristiaanJ
11th Dec 2014, 21:42
Putting the clues together sofar, it appears to be an early Mk III.
The tailpipes are the 'thin' ones of the Welland.
The wingtips are the round ones of the Mk III, not the straight 'cut-off' ones of the Mk IV.
The cockpit represents the sliding canopy of the Mk III, not the side-opening one of the Mk I.

Thanks all already !
Any more clues will be most welcome, of course !

Haraka
12th Dec 2014, 05:36
Accuracy wasn't a strong point with Dinky - they were toys after all. Of the same vintage was the Shooting Star. With leading edge wing sweep but an unswept trailing edge it actually it looked better than the original IMHO :)

joy ride
12th Dec 2014, 08:23
Cast items tend to shrink slightly as they cool and any inaccuracy in the die can be magnified by shrinkage. Also, since those days toy and model makers have become more interested in accuracy and the market is bigger and allows for improved technology.

Fareastdriver
12th Dec 2014, 09:01
Dunno about the Meatbox as I only experienced the T7 and that had Mcrit built into the canopy. The Vampire T11, which was a smooth, especially the tailplane, as any other Mk used to start bucking at about M.82 - 84 dependent on how bent the aircraft was.

OUAQUKGF Ops
12th Dec 2014, 11:00
I had several Dinky Meteors along with Swifts,Hunters and Javelins. These operated out of a frontline airfield on the sitting room floor whose runways consisted of laid down bog rolls which in those days were made of sterner stuff than they are today.

joy ride
12th Dec 2014, 11:10
^ You just reminded me that I had a Gloster Javelin toy, not sure what brand, but it was my favourite plane at the time.

S'land
12th Dec 2014, 12:21
In the days when I was young enough to be allowed "toys" I also had, among other matchbox aircraft, a Meteor. However, my favourite one was a de Havilland Sea Vixen (along with a Supercharged Bently 4.5 litre).

I am looking forward to my second childhood so that I can start playing with "toys" again

joy ride
12th Dec 2014, 14:10
S'land: I am younger than you and decades into my 2nd childhood....start yours immediately!

Flybiker7000
12th Dec 2014, 16:25
And my remembrance of my die cast Super-Mystere, wich judged by Google pictures must have been from Dinky, was likely awakened ;-)

JW411
12th Dec 2014, 16:32
I have two or three Dinky Meteors up in the attic (along with lots of others) which I started collecting from jumble sales etc when I was a kid. I was always of the impression that they were Mk.IIIs.

Fishtailed
14th Dec 2014, 00:28
A later Meteor had alternative exhausts, normal ones at the rear and supplementary ones vectored downward, switched by a flap valve, for short take-off trials.


Realy!! Sounds like vectored thrust! Can anyone from that era confirm this.


Back to Dinkys, I had them all in the sixties, with an airfield inked into the kitchen table, before I was into real jets, now I have them all again, only more Hunters and Meteors, Lightnings, Sea Vixens, Javelins, and a Swift with its box. (not bothered what it's worth).

Noyade
14th Dec 2014, 03:33
Realy!! Sounds like vectored thrust! Can anyone from that era confirm this.http://i60.tinypic.com/258a2va.jpg

BEagle
14th Dec 2014, 08:17
Westlands tested RA490 at RAF Merryfield in the early 1950s. It was a Meteor IV with F8 fin and small additional vertical fins on the tailplane; it was fitted with Rolls-Royce Nene engines and deflector vanes.

Although I don't remember seeing the aircraft itself, I certainly remember later exploring the test pits and tunnels over which it would be parked to do various tests.

All gone now, sadly....

As for RA490, sadly it ended its days on a fire dump.

No ejector seat, so the effect of a single engine failure at the 90 KIAS minimum speed at which it flew would have been....interesting.

DaveReidUK
14th Dec 2014, 08:25
Flight article from 1957 about the Nene Meteor:

meteor thirst | deflector vane | ramjet development | 1957 | 1897 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1957/1957%20-%201897.html)

Fareastdriver
14th Dec 2014, 09:37
No ejector seat, so the effect of a single engine failure at the 90 KIAS

I wouldn't liked to have been sitting in it at ANY speed below 90 knots.

603DX
14th Dec 2014, 18:41
I was lucky enough to sit in an F8 at Filton (thanks to my second-cousin war ace John Braham) and fly in a T7 from RAF Chivenor (CCF summer camp).



In the 1950s I was also scheduled for an "air experience" flight in a T7 at RAF West Malling belonging to 500 Squadron (County of Kent) Aux.AF (the so-called "weekend flyers").

Unfortunately, the Saturday morning our CCF unit was taken to the airfield for the planned flights came just a day or so after the MoD had announced the disbandment of all Auxilliary squadrons, with immediate effect. Our excitement was rather dimmed when the anticipated air trips were cancelled, and instead a tour of the hangars and hardstandings was substituted. A number of the squadron pilots were also milling about disconsolately, it hit them even harder than us ... :sad:

However, many years later I came across the PPRuNe archive thread "Meteor Accidents - 1953", with the absolutely appalling toll of Meteor crashes and fatalities of that period, and reflected that maybe missing that flight wasn't such a bad thing after all! You were indeed lucky with your T7 flight henry crun, both for enjoying it, and surviving it!

Incidentally, I assume you are not the same 'henry crun' who made post No 2 in that accident thread ...

henry_crun
14th Dec 2014, 20:55
As I recall the sad tale of the Meteor crashes, eventually one of the investigators noticed that the wing upper surface roundels were blurred as though double printed. It turned out that the double image was caused by the wings clapping together. Apparently there was a weakness in the rear fuselage which let it hinge upward, putting the fuselage nose-up and causing the wing spar to give way and the wings to fold. Lot of aircraft and pilots lost before this was diagnosed and remedied.

PS - The other henry crun (alas no longer with us) mentions "double mainplane failure" but the cause was then unknown.
.

T-21
14th Dec 2014, 22:08
On Bargain Hunt today there was a boxed Dinky Gloster Javelin bought for 35 but only made 18,well below what it should have fetched.
Meteor RA490 was transferred to Aero Flight, RAE Bedford and on 27 April 1955 Flt/Lt Mitchell made the first of a number of jet-deflected landings there. I presume it was scrapped at Thurleigh late fifties can anybody confirm ?

Noyade
15th Dec 2014, 10:19
Speaking of small miniature metal aircraft, I thought this was impressive scaling. Scanned from a 1964 National Geographic...

http://i62.tinypic.com/nd4ttt.jpg

brakedwell
15th Dec 2014, 13:06
A fellow aviation enthusiast and I used to cycle to Lasham or Blackbushe when we were allowed out of school at weekends. The photo of me standing on the wing of a Meteor IV was taken in 1952 or 1953. There used to be a Lancaster parked next to it, unfortunately the photos have been lost.
Little did I know that five or six years later I would be patrolling over Cyprus in a Meteor F8.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/LashamMeteor1953_zpse83e3fb1.jpg

I bought a very nice 1/100 scale 74 Sqn Meteor F8 diecast model by Amer Com on Amazon recently. I think it is also available on eBay - priced about 12.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/photo2_zps59996d45.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/photo3_zpse2575fea.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/photo1_zpsef26aa0f.jpg

603DX
16th Dec 2014, 10:42
Early 1950s, I actually got to sit in a Gloster Meteor (probably a Mk 4), on a Dutch airbase - that was still possible in those days.

A bit later than that in 1957, I was on a CCF cadet gliding course at RAF Halton, the Apprentices Training School. On a no-flying day, two of us spent a blissful hour or so clambering into a number of Meteors that were clearly "past it", with canopies left open on the grass outside the hangars. Possibly they were surplus to apprentice instructional requirements, and were just left to rot.

That was interesting enough, but along with them in this rather sad aircraft graveyard were several Mosquito night fighters with belly hatches left open, and similarly abandoned. We were up into these like rats up a drainpipe, and sitting in the pilot's seats it was easy to imagine that these very aircraft had seen active service, since this was only 12 years after the end of WW2.

Wander00
16th Dec 2014, 11:06
BW - that looks very nice