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Fat Magpie
10th Dec 2014, 15:59
Here is a great report from RT on autotune or fakery in the music industry, listen to Britney Spears real voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e51_hSuKZKA#t=127

Windy Militant
10th Dec 2014, 16:37
listen to Britney Spears real voice.
No thanks! For all the moaning about auntie Beeb that goes on in Pprune, one thing it does well is live music.
If you listen to the live sessions that are on, there are two things you notice.
Firstly the sessions don't seem to feature the big celebrity names very often.
Secondly the best performances seem to come from Folk, Country and Indie musicians, pretty much in that order of musician ship.

Edited to add if you want real Music you can't go wrong with Jules Holland and his big Band!

joy ride
10th Dec 2014, 16:49
The vast majority of people happily accept drum machines, sequencers and all manner of programmed instrumental tracks and even time quantising without the slightest hesitation or even awareness. If all this is acceptable, why do people get upset by singers being electronically improved?

If it is agreed that singers SHOULD be good enough to sing unaided then surely instrumental tracks should be performed by adequately skilled humans too?

A number of years ago there was a daft scandal about Milli Vanilli who did not sing on their records, but no-one complained that machines and session musicians had played the music, and this is deeply hypocritical.

I have to admit that I listen to a wide variety of music styles and far prefer music when it is performed by musicians and singers who do not need "improvement".

teeteringhead
10th Dec 2014, 18:04
Loved the quote of Dolly P at Glasto this year, when she was accused of using Autotune....

There's lots about me that ain't real, but that don't include my voice!! :ok:

Romeo Hotel
10th Dec 2014, 19:05
It's unfortunate that the current chart is dominated by industry puppets that purely seek fame.

I've always considered musical talent very simple to define. A vocalist singing without a mike with either a guitar or piano to accompany them.

Two vocalists who are rightly getting recognised and not before time are;

Myles Kennedy and Brent Smith

The music might not be everyones cup of tea but you can't deny that they are seriously talented.

Fat Magpie
10th Dec 2014, 19:55
Auntie beeb

If you eliminate the waste you could get the same service for approx £40 a year.

OFSO
10th Dec 2014, 20:26
listen to Britney Spears real voice.

She has a real voice ? Amazing. What next ? Justin Bieber's real maturity ?

SpringHeeledJack
10th Dec 2014, 20:36
Real music in the mainstream died long ago and now to keep the bread and circuses going it's easier to produce a product for the masses, which for so-called svengalis Simon Cowell and Simon Fuller has been immensely lucrative. The latest 'star' is in and out in months, whereupon the next on the conveyor belt is wheeled out. Awful for the most part and it seems, sadly, the masses think this is ok. I suppose that once you start using auto tune you're stuck using it for the duration, as singing talent doesn't just magically develop. It's a crying shame for those with talent.


SHJ

RedhillPhil
14th Dec 2014, 22:19
Autotune, what autotune?


Before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGKkYCeuiaI&feature=player_detailpage#t=4


After.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2XnCls5sg8&feature=player_detailpage#t=1

Loose rivets
15th Dec 2014, 00:54
Both are dreadful. Songs. Songs by the thousand. 'You can store thousands of songs on this gizmo'.


So few of them are worth a penny, most of them you'd have to pay me a hundred pounds to listen to. So many talentless brats being paid to contort their silly faces as they scream into microphones. Brats. I hate loath and detest these so called songs, and hope the cheap music ship flounders with the total loss of all that screech in her.

finfly1
15th Dec 2014, 01:02
Fresh from a three hour live performance which was immensely satisfying. One reason might be that there were probably 280 or more years of experience combined in the 7 musicians performing for no pay. It was almost a fluke that we were even there, but a more rewarding experience would be hard to imagine. Only small PA system for mikeing vocals, and everything else was acoustic. And fine!

Fox3WheresMyBanana
15th Dec 2014, 02:44
We still have real music here!
Saw JP last month. Drove through the snow, paid $20 in a little hall with around 100 of us.

q2cBFLKy2IQ

cattletruck
15th Dec 2014, 10:41
For modern commercial music to be successful in financial terms it must at least feature what I call a catch-cry of "mummy" sounds - sound engineers and music executives know that.

Manufacturing recorded music is easy these days, marketting packaged music still remains very expensive and is very risky, this is why the commercial music scene resembles more a machine rather than a feature of the cream of the crop. Commercial labels need artists who will do exactly as they are told, other people write their material, other people fix their lack of musical talent, other people manage their image, other people market their wares, and other people take the bulk of their profits.

People are being bred to be consumption monkeys and there is a musical score to help them along.

sled dog
16th Dec 2014, 20:24
I saw the great Tony Bennet live in 1974, and he still sounds the same today ( 85 ? ). Frank Sinatra said " He is the greatest singer in the world " , and I totally agree. No electronic magic either.

MagnusP
17th Dec 2014, 08:20
Autotune is a scourge as far as I'm concerned. As soon as I detect it (and as a singer/guitarist I can) I think "Can't sing; faker". The one and only exception is Cher who uses it as an effect rather than a necessity, and I quite like that despite not being much of a fan of her music.

bugged on the right
17th Dec 2014, 09:56
Electronic enhancement has been going on for decades, ever since multi track recording was invented. I saw Eric Burdon and the Animals in Melbourne in the 60s and the warm up band, the Mixtures outshone them greatly. Whether the band was incompetent live , tired or just couldn't care, I don't know. I have heard great and talented music from rank amateurs in London pubs but these were not so great looking people. Such a shame when you can be famous simply by speaking rhyming bile accompanied by a recording of somebody else's music

Wingswinger
17th Dec 2014, 11:10
I went to Let It Be in London when it was on: Four young men playing and singing the Beatles music from Love Me Do through to the end of the band. I kid you not, they were better than the originals. :ok:

Phalconphixer
17th Dec 2014, 12:34
Queen Live Aid 1985... 25 minutes of genuine entertainment where the only bit of 'fakery' was the mid section of Bohemian Rhapsody which could not possibly have been recreated on stage in a live environment... Freddies voice let him down a couple of times but it was all a part of his on stage persona.. here, warts and all... this is what pop music should be about, not the manufactured, manipulated pap that fills the charts these days...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A22oy8dFjqc

Like 'em or hate 'em these guys are entertainers, showmen... no manipulation necessary.

PLovett
17th Dec 2014, 12:52
What! Are you trying to tell me that all those sweet young things wailing out their lungs are not actually singing?

Geddout of it!

No! I don't believe you. :=:uhoh::rolleyes::E

kms901
17th Dec 2014, 16:17
I have been "fixing it in the mix" for a long tim, and this is too true to be funny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Rhh_4GZmU

Discorde
17th Dec 2014, 16:50
Plus ça change . . . the 'harpsichord' solo in the middle eight of the Beatles' 'In My Life' was actually producer George Martin recording the piece on a piano at half speed an octave lower. Playback at normal speed brought the pitch back up and turned the piano timbre to harpsichord.

ian16th
17th Dec 2014, 18:12
Some real video clips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb2w2m1JmCY

http://www.pprune.org/www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb2w2m1JmCY

419
18th Dec 2014, 21:09
I doubt if there is any fakery in this girl's singing.

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wdew
19th Dec 2014, 11:45
Even ABBA's distinctive sound was created in the studio...
I feel the same about photoshopping or enhancing photos. Fake

Fox3WheresMyBanana
19th Dec 2014, 11:56
Thanks 419, delightful stuff.
Sad in a way, but there's a look on another competitor's face at 0:22 that just says "I haven't got a f#cking chance here".

She's never had a singing or music lesson, and gives half her income to build playgrounds for poor children. If ever an industry needed role models......

Fox3WheresMyBanana
19th Dec 2014, 12:09
Alma Deutscher (age 8), playing violin in Trio for Violin, viola and piano by Alma Deutscher. The piece is based on an aria from her new opera.

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G-CPTN
9th Mar 2016, 22:08
'Street Soprano' busker Hayley Moss draws a crowd (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-35768765).

Watch Norfolk's opera busker Hayley Moss singing over Norwich Market (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/watch_norfolk_s_opera_busker_hayley_moss_singing_over_norwic h_market_1_4418485).

awzima9FdTo
Acoustics not the best.

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funfly
9th Mar 2016, 22:52
Went to see the Three Degrees tonight. Now in their 70s wow - did they put out some belters. They didn't need help with their pitch or their tone. Brilliant.

FF

Windy Militant
9th Mar 2016, 22:54
I have heard great and talented music from rank amateurs in London pubs but these were not so great looking people.
Bruce Welch late of the Shadows was on Suzi Quatro's radio show the other day.
He made a jolly quip about session musicians.
BW You can tell that they're session musicians.
SQ How
BW They're in time and in tune!:ok:

Phalconphixer
10th Mar 2016, 02:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy2xrt8yZwM

UniFoxOs
10th Mar 2016, 07:59
What! Are you trying to tell me that all those sweet young things wailing out their lungs are not actually singing?

Geddout of it!

No! I don't believe you.

Nor me. Most of the so-called music I am forced to hear, in places where I don't want music, definitely sounds like it's sung naturally - or else autotune is not working correctly!

sitigeltfel
10th Mar 2016, 08:05
A bit of fakery here..........but who's complaining!

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cattletruck
10th Mar 2016, 08:50
Was watching some old VHS tapes before throwing them out and I came across a live performance of a song called Aria by Yianni (also used in the 1986 British Airways ad).

There were close ups of the two ladies singing the duet and they were tell-tale signs of nerves, but they delivered their complex vocals perfectly and graciously. Now I can't seem to throw away the tape.

FullOppositeRudder
11th Mar 2016, 10:50
I feel the same about photoshopping or enhancing photos. Fake From the earliest days of photography, it has been considered a totally legitimate part of the overall process to use techniques in the darkroom to frame, dodge or burn in areas of the final image to produce a more pleasing and artistic result.

The arrival of the colour slide made this almost impossible. However sometimes very basic modification of the overall result could be done successfully.

More recently, the emergence and uptake of digital photography and the popularity of numerous photo enhancement programs mean that the former capability of post photograph processing and manipulation of the final image is again available. It's a legitimate re-discovery and re-application of what happened in the darkroom fifty or more years ago and I have no qualms about using it where considered necessary to produce a more pleasing final result - up to a certain degree. Once the image goes significantly beyond what was there at the moment of capture, I'll admit to a certain and increasing level of unease. But it will still be art in some people's judgement, and I'll respect their right to their own opinion.

tony draper
11th Mar 2016, 15:32
The Vocoder goes back to the 1940s ,Sparky and his Magic Piano.:E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DES_XNuNE4

Geezers of Nazareth
12th Mar 2016, 15:15
Any autotune in this one ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Taxuott5s

Pelikal
12th Mar 2016, 15:29
FOR, well said.

dsc810
12th Mar 2016, 19:48
The problem where does fakery and enhancement turn into fraud?

European type concerts of music and light/dancing where actually it is all playback and mime-sync'd and the main performer's mic is only turned up when they are speaking live to the audience. (whereupon their voice sounds totally different)

Models photos where all sorts of trickery is presented.
Lets forget about the models themselves with their fake jugs, hair extensions, false eyelashes, fake tan etc.
And also that the company/model is employing the best makeup artists they could provide to make them look good with "camera grade" makeup such that if they went out and walked down the street in it they would get some very odd looks.

Lets instead just look at the photos - they are sometime photoshopped out of all existence with all sorts of fakery.
Aspect ratios are changed to make the whole image (and the model) thinner.
You can sometimes see where a model's waist has been sculptured 'in' and a false view behind introduced.
Vertical lines in the background which mysteriously curve in as they go down the photo.....well who'd have guessed it!
Models whose legs are different length (as it is a composite picture) who feet seem not to touch the ground and when in the company of others it all looks 'odd' - fairly obviously other people have been added or subtracted. These sorts of pictures are not photos at all: they are created composite images.

In fact such is the level of alteration you would not even recognise these people if you saw them out of their 'model character'. Indeed there are TV slots done with celebs exactly to prove this point with them moonlighting in some fashion, dropping heavy hints as to who they are and still the unfortuntate member of the public fails to realise that it is X. (for ex see lindsay Vonn undercover in Vail ski resort)

Even the photographers are to blame for perpetuating the fakery - why is Paris Hilton always photographed from the RHS and we never see and image from the left? Answer she has a drooping left eye and it would never do would it to show that in any official photo - otherwise I'd guess you would loose your 'press pass'.

The problem I have with all of this is for those people to "aspire" to these role models. The reality is they do not exist and I feel sorry for those who think they do. The "image"/video is all done with fancy lighting, fancy makeup, and fancy post processing techniques.

GrumpyOldFart
12th Mar 2016, 19:57
I don't think there's any mechanicalickery in Hayley Moss's songs (thanks, G-C). What a fantastic voice - and not bad at all in the visual department either. Let's just hope that Simon Cowell and the other parasites don't eff up her career; I suspect she's going places.

andytug
12th Mar 2016, 21:12
Thing is if you're at all musical you can spot autotune a mile off - it just doesn't sound natural. Real musicians don't need it.

reynoldsno1
17th Mar 2016, 01:57
Autotune unlikely here ... wonder what Mr. Cowell would do with these guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFTBdpVvOyA