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Shaggy Sheep Driver
9th Dec 2014, 13:13
A piece on BBC Radio 4 refers to Birmingham as 'Britain's second city'. By what measure? By built up area and population, Manchester is bigger (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/population-surge-means-were-even-4804653). But perhaps even more importantly, Manchester is a vibrant, interesting, go-ahead place. Brum has.... errr.. a really good bus service to Redditch. ;)

I'd say the second city is Manchester, third probably Leeds, then maybe Liverpool or Newcastle. Brum has nothing going for it as far as I can see. Low employment, and most of that in low skilled jobs. But it probably does have the biggest motorway tailbacks!

Seldomfitforpurpose
9th Dec 2014, 13:19
Would I be right in guessing you don't like Birmingham :confused:

Shaggy Sheep Driver
9th Dec 2014, 13:23
No, I wouldn't say I dislike it (except for those predictable tail backs!). But then again (and I've been there many times, last time this autumn when we moored a narrow boat in Gas St Basin for the night) it seems to offer nothing to warrant 'second city' status.

Espada III
9th Dec 2014, 14:20
What the UK lacks is a second city that is half the size of London. Manchester is too small and only makes up for its lack of size by having famous football teams.

Recently there was talk of HS3 to make the Leeds/Manchester corridor an equivalent of the UK's second city, but in comparison with other European countries, the UK is dangerously tilted towards London - and Birmingham is just an excuse for the traffic on the M6!

France has Paris then Lyon and Marseilles,
Italy has Rome then Milan, Turin, Venice, Florence, Naples
Spain has Madrid, then Barcelona, Malaga, Valencia,
Germany has Frankfurt, Berlin, Stutggart, Munich

All big cities which are bigger than or more important to the country than Birmingham, Manchester Leeds etc

UniFoxOs
9th Dec 2014, 14:30
Having lived and worked in both I have no great preference either way. Of course Birmingham suffers from having relied to a large extent on the motor industry and doesn't seem to have been able to recover satisfactorily from its destruction, a disadvantage Manchester doesn't have.

Worked with a [email protected] in Manchester some years ago who tried to tell me Bristol was the second city!

Recently there was talk of HS3

We haven't got HS2 yet - and don't want or need it.

Trossie
9th Dec 2014, 14:44
Survey done of residents of large cities in England to find their thoughts on England's true 'second city' resulted in these overwhelming responses:

Birmingham: The Brummies said that it can't be questioned, "Birmingham is the largest outside London and is most certainly England's 'second city'".

Manchester: The Mancunians said that a wider range of factors needed to be covered, "With the strengths of its economy and culture, Manchester is with out a doubt England's 'second city'".

Liverpool: The blunt response from Scousers was "England's 'second city', that's London isn't it?"

Exascot
9th Dec 2014, 15:09
The City of Westminster is a tad important.

ian16th
9th Dec 2014, 15:10
I understood that Glasgow was the UK's 2nd city!

But what would I know?

Shaggy Sheep Driver
9th Dec 2014, 15:13
Manchester is too small and only makes up for its lack of size by having famous football teams.

Um, and inventing the worlds first true electronic computer (1948), and being THE leading industrial city of the industrial revolution; "what Manchester does today, the rest of the world does tomorrow" was a proud and true boast. That's history, true, but that spirit lives on. Oh, and as I said Brum isn't even the second biggest now, by size or population.

Birmingham was no innovator, just a giant workshop where stuff got made. Now that's gone east, it doesn't even have that!

G-CPTN
9th Dec 2014, 15:18
Science and invention in Birmingham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_invention_in_Birmingham)

Gertrude the Wombat
9th Dec 2014, 15:18
inventing the worlds first true electronic computer (1948)
That'll be Cambridge then.


And there was a time when the "second city" was either Bristol or Liverpool, depending on which had made the most profit out of the slave trade that week.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
9th Dec 2014, 15:35
Quote:
inventing the worlds first true electronic computer (1948)

That'll be Cambridge then.

Nope, Manchester. Everything before 'Baby' was a calculator (fixed program), not a computer. Cambridge's machine came after Baby:

"Although considered "small and primitive" by the standards of its time, it was the first working machine to contain all of the elements essential to a modern electronic computer."

Manchester Small-Scale Experimental Machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Small-Scale_Experimental_Machine)

lasernigel
9th Dec 2014, 15:47
What the UK lacks is a second city that is half the size of London. Manchester is too small and only makes up for its lack of size by having famous football teams.

Population Greater Manchester is higher than the whole of the Birmingham area at 2.7M.

Now to go to your argument of second, third and forth cities.
Population at last census in brackets.

France has Paris then Lyon (2.12M) and Marseilles, (1.75M)
Italy has Rome then Milan (1.24M), Turin (0.8M), Venice (0.27M), Florence (0.35M), Naples (1.1M)
Spain has Madrid, then Barcelona (1.5M), Malaga (0.6M), Valencia (0.8M),
Germany has Frankfurt (0.7M), Berlin Capital (3.5M), Stutggart (0.6M) , Munich (1.2M)

Not very good comparisons I think!!!

Effluent Man
9th Dec 2014, 15:55
I find Birmingham a tad tedious I must admit. In order of how I feel interest and comfort probably:

Newcastle

Liverpool

Manchester

If we are including Scotland then their two candidates would fit in somewhere. I must admit I do love Newcastle despite having no connection whatsoever.

Capetonian
9th Dec 2014, 16:06
Second in terms of what exactly?

Population, size, commercial activity, manufacturing, number of pubs/restaurants/hotel rooms/whorehouses/banks?

It's a bit meaningless. Knowing both cities quite well and finding them both rather pleasant as cities go (I'm not a city person) I would intuitively give my vote to Manchester, but there's no science behind that.

Effluent Man
9th Dec 2014, 16:16
I think it's subjective. Especially the second city bit because London would not be in my top twenty.

Tankertrashnav
9th Dec 2014, 16:51
If we are including Scotland then their two candidates would fit in somewhere.

I rather thought that we still were! (and Northern Ireland and Wales). When I was a kid in Glasgow it was the only British town, other than London, whose population was over 1 million, but rehousing and boundary changes has brought it way below that figure.

Population Greater Manchester is higher than the whole of the Birmingham area at 2.7M.

Yes but Greater Manchester includes towns such as Bolton, Wigan, Stockport, etc, whose inhabitants certainly wouldn't consider themselves to be Mancunians!

Shaggy Sheep Driver
9th Dec 2014, 16:56
Yes but Greater Manchester includes towns such as Bolton, Wigan, Stockport, etc, whose inhabitants certainly wouldn't consider themselves to be Mancunians!

Do folk from Stourbridge, Wolverhampton, Sutton Coldfield, and Coventry call themselves Brummies?


.

Effluent Man
9th Dec 2014, 17:10
If you had heard Wolves supporters talking of WBA and Villa you would doubt that.

Krystal n chips
9th Dec 2014, 18:27
" Would I be right in guessing you don't like Birmingham"

Well you had to make a factually accurate statement at some point....this was it. Well done !

The accent doesn't help the genetic disposition of the population to complaining about everything and thinking the world owes them a living....this involves work, an alien concept to Brummies so you can understand their reasoning here as they are also genetically bone idle.

The M6 / M5 / M42 and that bastion of private enterprise rip-off, the M6 Toll we all know only too well.

My hopes were raised when they announced New Street was to be demolished....alas, it's been rebuilt as a shopping mall.

My totally unbiased opinion was formed in the RAF when I first encountered the species, and continued in the airline world thereafter.

A friend of mine at the time, a great mimic, actually got "banned" from BHX after making comments about an engineer who had just spent a whole 2 hrs outside and was, naturally, complaining. The comments went along the lines of "two hours work, don't worry mate, we'll have you on the sick for six months to recuperate".....crew room silent at this point....temp about -100C.

Nothing a nice wall and / or cans of instant sunshine wouldn't remedy however. It's already a cultural, social and intellectual wasteland so there would be no difference ....other than it would flat as well.

Effluent Man
9th Dec 2014, 18:30
Newcastle seems to me a much more separate entity culturally than any of the other candidates. It feels almost like a foreign country. Maybe it's the Viking connection.

MadsDad
9th Dec 2014, 18:35
Krystal. Do I recall correctly that in General Hacketts' book 'The Third World War' (a tome that generally received favourable reviews I recall) it was Birmingham that was the target of a Soviet nuclear strike?

(Ground zero being Winson Green (?) prison. Minsk got annihilated in revenge. Or my memory is playing tricks again).

wiggy
9th Dec 2014, 19:15
I think it's all nicely summed up 1 minute 55 into this piece...:E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYSdQ0IZ0x0

Shaggy Sheep Driver
9th Dec 2014, 20:25
Newcastle seems to me a much more separate entity culturally than any of the other candidates. It feels almost like a foreign country. Maybe it's the Viking connection.

Nah, it's all those big northern lassies with bare midriffs hanging around the city centre on a freezing January night (true! I've seen it!). :eek:

Gertrude the Wombat
9th Dec 2014, 20:36
Nope, Manchester.
Not, surprisingly, what I was taught at Cambridge :)

By the people who'd built the EDSAC.

Tankertrashnav
9th Dec 2014, 20:57
Newcastle seems to me a much more separate entity culturally than any of the other candidates. It feels almost like a foreign country. Maybe it's the Viking connection.

I was brought up in Carlisle, so Northern accents are not exactly unfamiliar to me. However I recall sitting on a bus once and hearing two chaps who I took to be Scandinavian chatting behind me . It was only after a minute or two that I realised they were a pair of Geordies speaking English (or their version of English!)

K & C - I think that the Brummie accent regularly comes out bottom in polls of peoples attitudes to regional accents. The Newcastle accent is generally liked and trusted, and I go along with that, with the exception of Ruth Archer and that annoying git from The One Show :*

Shaggy Sheep Driver
9th Dec 2014, 21:05
One of the worst accents, I think, is Belfast. Sounds like a whiney kid. And while I think Manchester is a great city, it doesn't have the most attractive accent with its awful flat vowels. Not quite as bad as Essex but getting there. :eek:

I agree, the Newcastle accent sounds friendly and trustworthy.

flying lid
9th Dec 2014, 22:18
Born & bred in Wigan, half way between Liverpool & Manchester. Back in the early 70's did my ONC Mech Engineering in Liverpool (Riversdale) & HNC in Manchester (Stretford Tech). Later worked a while in both cities.

Manchester and its people is, and always have been bloody miserable. Manchester back stabbers is the term oft used hereabouts.

Liverpool, yes its a tatty hole, but the place and people have a unique character to be found absolutely nowhere else on this planet. Scouse humour is incomparable. Thieving scoundrels yes, but always they brought about a laugh and shake of head. The kettle was always on the boil when visiting the Liverpool office, and a joke & laugh was guaranteed.

We went to the hell hole of Cheshire Oaks shopping centre last Sunday, came home via the Mersey Tunnel as wife wanted to call at a Chinese supermarket in the Pool. Just before joining the M58 motorway, on a cold, cold afternoon were two scousers jogging along the main road wearing only shorts and shoes !! Hard, daft, folk from the pool.

Couldn't live in either place though, you see, as a scouser would say, I'm a Wolly Back !!!

Lid

Shaggy Sheep Driver
9th Dec 2014, 22:32
I ran a project once using a main sub contractor an IT box-shifter (re-seller) based not too far from Merseyside and staffed by Scousers. Great crac, good laugh, but useless feckers whose work ethic was ' dat'll do'.

The project was failing so we tried to fix them - impossible! So we sacked them and moved the project to the South East.

Their work ethic was 'get it right', and the project, which had been in serious trouble on Merseyside, was a great success once moved south.

I really like Liverpool, but they do seem to have an attitude of 'entitlement'.

Tankertrashnav
9th Dec 2014, 23:21
A few comments on Liverpool:

"The royal family has taken its whacks with a certain decent cheerfulness, something which compares interestingly with the intimidatory self-pity issuing from Liverpool if anyone suggests that idle, violent city is, well, an idle, violent city and not a citadel of delightful Scouser wit and defiance."

(The Guardian, 2001)

Tony Blair's religiosity "accords perfectly with the Liverpudlianisation of Britain... no-holds-barred self-pity dressed as grief, self-congratulatory sentimentalism, an affirmation of itself through the appropriation of cosmetic Celtism".


(The Observer)

"...Scousers' propensity to linger over every misfortune until another comes to replace it makes them uniquely suited to the demands of the Bulger mourning marathon," she wrote. "While other cities might have faltered and found something else to distract them, Liverpool's talent for nursing resentments ensured that it would feel, eight years on, just as enraged about Bulger's murder as it was the first moment it heard." Liverpudlians, she added, refuse to let anything go" as long as there's still a drop of righteous indignation to be squeezed".

(The Guardian again, 1993)

(a city with) a "built-in air of grievance" and the "cockiness that comes from being told too often that they and their city are special".

(Alan Bennett, 1998)

...Euan Ferguson - who on 20 October 2002 wrote this attack on John Lennon: "It could be argued that it was his narcissistic emoting, never shot through with the tiniest ray of intellectual rigour, which began the Liverpudlianisation of Britain and turned us into a country that fills its gutters with tears for girls we've never met."


I've never been to Liverpool, so I make no comment on the city or its inhabitants, but I 100% agree with the remarks on John Lennon!

Yamagata ken
10th Dec 2014, 11:09
@SSDDo folk from Stourbridge, Wolverhampton, Sutton Coldfield, and Coventry call themselves Brummies?Definitely not. I grew up in Kenilworth (near Coventry), and Birmingham was seen as a foreign land. Brummies made stuff, but had no comprehension of quality or precision. Hence the well-known description of a hammer as a 'Birmingham screwdriver'.

G-CPTN
10th Dec 2014, 11:13
I well remember a Brummie family that moved to Hertfordshire insisting that they were from Souly-hull.

Yamagata ken
10th Dec 2014, 11:25
Solihull people consider themselves not-Birmingham. They have a point. Velocettes were built in Solihull. BSAs were from Brum. QED.

cavortingcheetah
10th Dec 2014, 11:48
As has no doubt been pointed out, there is the City of London and then there is London. Who is to say which is the lesser? The one is full of people making vast amounts of moolah while the other is chock full with those whose affluence and consumer extravagance knows no boundaries. Nothing can compare!

Shaggy Sheep Driver
10th Dec 2014, 12:16
Do folk from Stourbridge, Wolverhampton, Sutton Coldfield, and Coventry call themselves Brummies?

Definitely not. I grew up in Kenilworth (near Coventry), and Birmingham was seen as a foreign land. Brummies made stuff, but had no comprehension of quality or precision. Hence the well-known description of a hammer as a 'Birmingham screwdriver'.

That's what I thought. So tankertrahsnav's point about Greater Manchester including places like Bolton making it artificially bigger than the West Midlands is invalid. Just as Boltonians might not consider themselves Mancunians, Coventy folk don't consider themselves Brummies.

Greater Manchester IS bigger than West Midlands. Both in area and population.

Trossie
10th Dec 2014, 14:40
I've never been to Liverpool, so I make no comment on the city or its inhabitants...Go there some time. It was a real shite-hole into the early '90s but it is really nice now. Friendly people. Nicer than their inland neighbours further up the canal.

And all the best scouser jokes come from scousers!!

Capetonian
10th Dec 2014, 14:44
It (Liverpool) was a real shite-hole into the early '90s but it is really nice now. Friendly people. Nicer than their inland neighbours further up the canal.I'll second that. I spend a bit of time in Chester and make a point of going to Liverpool for at least one day during the visit. There's a lot to see and do.

SMT Member
10th Dec 2014, 15:49
In an aviation context (yes, I know, this is JB and such things are frowned upon), surely the 2nd city would be Amsterdam.

Tankertrashnav
10th Dec 2014, 15:58
Trouble is, from where I live, even going to Bristol counts as a trip "up North", never mind Liverpool. As far as I'm concerned these days the M6 with its standstill traffic forms an almost impenetrable barrier which I'm unwilling to try and cross unless absolutely necessary. Anyway here's a true story.

A chum of mine who had been brought up in Bath and Bristol went to Liverpool University. At first he found it a bit of a culture shock, but came to like it. Home in the vacation he was extolling Liverpool's virtues to some friends, who were inclined to be sceptical, so he invited them up for a visit when he was back at uni.

He met them at the station one Sunday and they were strolling up Lime Street when a Transit van smashed into a shop about 50 yards away. Three men jumped out and proceeded to fill the back of the van with clothes. As the robbers were making their escape they screeched to a halt by the group of open mouthed visitors. Throwing a handful of jeans out onto the pavement one of the gang shouted "You saw nothing lads" and the Transit roared off.

My chum had to admit defeat before the visit had even begun!

Shaggy Sheep Driver
10th Dec 2014, 16:19
Mate of mine used to lecture at a Poly in Liverpool. One day someone nicked the building's entire burglar alarm system!

It can be useful having a Scouse mate, though. One day me and my mate from that neck of the woods flew into a fly-in (might have been Kemble). A chippy has tiny fuel tanks so first port of call was the fuel bowser on the far side of the airfield. There was a fueller there, but he didn't have the key for the bowser (a road tanker) and had been frantically radioing for one.

After about 40 minutes quite a queue had formed and still no key. Suddenly, with a roar and a cloud of diesel smoke the bowser burst into life as my mate appeared from its cab, having 'hot wired' it!

ian16th
10th Dec 2014, 17:13
Odd memory of Liverpool.

I haven't been there often, only a couple of times for work.

It was the last time I stayed in a genuine single room. The hotel was the Atlantic, and shaped like a ship with a 'sharp end'. In this 'sharp end' there were very narrow single rooms.

Didn't need an early call, the bl**dy ferries across the Mersey woke you up with their toot tooting.

jindabyne
10th Dec 2014, 19:00
Without doubt Manchester - closely followed by Barnstaple or Scarborough

mixture
10th Dec 2014, 19:27
Manchester is a vibrant, interesting, go-ahead place

Really ? I guess that must be with beer-goggles firmly mounted ! :E

VnV2178B
10th Dec 2014, 20:45
Just a quick correction for Y-Ken, Velocettes were made in Brum , York Road, Hall Green. The site was also part of the Lucas empire and now is Rolls-Royce Aero Engine Controls.
VnV

LGW Vulture
10th Dec 2014, 23:55
Those of us born and bred in Wolverhampton are definitely NOT Brummies - we are Black Country folk - and proud of it.

bosnich71
11th Dec 2014, 00:14
LGW Vulture ...." those of us born and bred in Wolverhampton are definitely not Brummies".
I'll second that. Many moons ago I had to visit Wolves for work related matters and couldn't understand a word the locals said. And I was born in that strange place a few miles down the road. Those who run our lives nowadays reckon they've given us diversity well I reckon we've always had it. The Black country, for example, was always a "different" place.

Yamagata ken
11th Dec 2014, 02:37
Oops. Hall Green, yes. Correction noted.

AtomKraft
11th Dec 2014, 07:21
Wasn't Glasgow referred to as 'the second city of the empire', when we had one?

If so, surely it has a good claim to be the 'second city' of the UK?

BillHicksRules
11th Dec 2014, 14:46
AK,

I was going to post the very same thing.

But I would say that the first city of the Empire was not in the UK so Glasgow is clearly the first city of the UK!!! :ok::ok::E:E

Therefore the argument is still on but I think London shades it over Birmingham for the title of 2nd City of the UK.

wings folded
11th Dec 2014, 15:41
How about Caistor St Edmund?

Capital of the Iceni. That's before furriners turned up in significant numbers. London sort of became capital a while later.

UniFoxOs
17th Dec 2014, 09:20
It seems that the Rough Guides people come down on one side...

Birmingham is only UK city to get into Rough Guides' global list of best places to visit (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/birmingham-named-among-top-10-8292640)

Shaggy Sheep Driver
17th Dec 2014, 09:25
Is that a joke? Attractions include the Birds Custard Factory and New St Station?

I think they were 'aving a larf!

tony draper
17th Dec 2014, 10:04
The capital of a vast area of the country called The Danelaw was York,and York has the merit of still being a English city..
:rolleyes:

Yamagata ken
17th Dec 2014, 10:24
Apparently, Brum is well worth a visit if you are into: A) canal boating, and B) industrial archaeology. Brum is well served with canals. I'd be tempted to give it a go if I could persuade the memsahib to work the locks.

Oddly, she prefers to holiday at a tropical beachside hotel, lying in the shade by the pool, reading books. Wimmin is funny creatures, isn't they.

VnV2178B
17th Dec 2014, 10:58
Oi, Shaggy,

don't knock the Custard Factory - my mate's the manager there and he's really proud of what he has. Hustle was filmed there and tha Gadget Show was (but everyone makes mistakes).

You may note I say I live in Birmingham sometimes but I am still not sure of backing it as second city! That's why I am in Japan...

The title refers to my mum's custard!

VnV

UniFoxOs
17th Dec 2014, 11:38
Brum is well served with canals.

They say it has more than Venice.

There's certainly culture - SWMBO want to the Ballet last night, and we have been to 5/6 classical music concerts and a couple of operas this year, as well as early performances of some new plays.

Tony - Once upon a time a great swathe of the country was known as Mercia, a kingdom ruled by a king, and it's capital was - Tamworth! It is still there, including castle, but not so picturesque as York (or Gateshead, come to that).

Fox3WheresMyBanana
17th Dec 2014, 12:18
Tamworth! It is still there, including castle, but not so picturesque as York (or Gateshead, come to that).

..or Mogadishu, or Gaza City,....

(and yes, I have lived in Tamworth)

Tamworth High Street
http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gp3_full_article/photogallery/gallery_5524385/Somalia_2010_02_10_Freccia_Mogadishu8410_edit.jpg

vulcanised
17th Dec 2014, 12:31
Tamworth High Street


That's cheating!

Show us the picture before the renovation.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
17th Dec 2014, 13:02
Love to, but the camera was stolen by a street gang. Average age, 8. Mostly AK's, but the Bossman had an Uzi.

tony draper
17th Dec 2014, 14:13
Doesn't Tamworth have a species of Pig named after it? :rolleyes:

UniFoxOs
17th Dec 2014, 14:45
Yes, and very fine pork they are too.

flying lid
17th Dec 2014, 18:00
2 Scousers are riding along the M62 from Liverpool to Manchester to Liverpool on a motorbike. They break down and start hitching a lift. A friendly trucker stops to see if he can help and the scousers ask him for a lift.

He tells them he has no room in the wagon as he is carrying 20,000
bowling balls but will take a look at the bike for them.
He tries everything he knows but is unable to repair it. Time is getting on
now and he's late for his delivery so he tells the scousers he has to leave.
"R hey lad" they say "gissa lift". The trucker once again explains that he
has no room as he is carrying 20,000 bowling balls. The scousers put it to
the driver that if they can manage to fit in the back will he take them and
he agrees.

They manage to squeeze themselves and their motorbike into the back of the wagon so the driver shuts the doors and gets off on his way. By this time he is really late and so puts his foot down. Sure enough PC Plod of Greater Manchester Police pulls him up for speeding. The good officer asks the driver what he is carrying to which he replies Scouse Eggs. The policeman obviously doesn't believe this so wants to take a look. He opens the back door and quickly shuts it and locks it. He gets onto his radio and calls for immediate backup from as many officers as possible.
The dispatcher asks what emergency he has that requires so many officers.

"I've got a wagon with 20,000 Scouse eggs in it - 2 have already hatched and the bastards have managed to nick a motorbike already".

Lid

tony draper
17th Dec 2014, 18:43
The Capital of Northumbria which cover a vast swathe of this country from the Wash to the Firth of Forth was Bamburgh,prolly a tad small for a new capital now though.
:)

bosnich71
18th Dec 2014, 01:09
Footballer gets transferred to Liverpool and rolls up to Anfield for his first training session. He gets out of his car and is confronted by two Scouse urchins who offer to mind his car for him whilst he is training. The player points to his German Shepherd who is sat on the back seat and says," my dog will guard my motor, he's a fully trained guard dog".
"Oh, yes that may well be", says one of the urchins, "but what's he like at putting out fires"?

crewmeal
18th Dec 2014, 06:38
May be it's down to postcodes. The problem is that Solihull and Chelmsley Wood share 'B' and both are known as part of Birmingham. Try tell that to those who live in Solihull.

I can't ever see Birmingham winning any cultural award especially as districts like Lozells and Sparkhill are 'no go' areas. You only have to drive from the city centre via the A34 north and south to see why. I know of colleagues who have had their cars stoned by kids whilst driving through these areas.

Effluent Man
18th Dec 2014, 07:54
Tony's mention of Bamburgh reminds me of visiting the castle. They have aircraft wheels/tyres dredged from the North Sea. A reminder that Hermann Goering's plans for invasion were not quite as successful as the Vikings.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
18th Dec 2014, 11:27
Chelmsley Wood
My sister lived there, for a bit. Their bank manager used to take her and her husband out to dinner every month. When they asked why they were always accorded the honour, he informed them they were his only customers who both had a job!

From yesterday's Birmingham Mail
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/chelmsley-wood-armed-robber-son-8305745

Evening entertainment in Chelmsley Wood
Meanwhile, the home of the ex-girlfriend of one of the sons of the other family was also targeted by the gang.
Kayleigh Dixon and her new partner were watching EastEnders with her eight-year-old and six-year-old from her previous relationship and their seven-month-old baby. They heard a loud bang and breaking glass and then up to four men wearing balaclavas burst into the living room, carrying a hammer, sledgehammer, crowbar and machete and demanding to know where her ex-partner was.

Never go out with a girl called Kayleigh

ATNotts
18th Dec 2014, 13:41
I believe that Birmingham is the UK's second city, based simply upon it's population, within the City of Birmingham.

Manchester can't hold a candle to that statistic, since the CITY is comparatively small, and it's only when the figures are manipulated to include the City of Salford, plus all the other towns around that Manchester can be construed to be bigger than Birmingham (by that measure).

If there was (politically) a "Greater Birmingham" that includes the whole conurbation from Coventry in the southeast, to Wloverhampton in the northwest, then it would probably a toss up between the two.

Can't see the Black Country signing up to that however, nor for that matter Coventry - which is why, from an economic standpoint, I'm afraid (as a Brummie) - actually from Soully-holl - Greater Manchester is clearly the UK's second "city".

Hobo
18th Dec 2014, 13:50
According to a book I'm currently reading, Norwich was the second city in 1550 or so.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
18th Dec 2014, 13:53
ATNotts - there is such a West Midlands area which includes those places. And it's smaller than Greater Manchester, in area and in population, both points having already been stated in this thread.

Next!

ATNotts
19th Dec 2014, 10:44
ATNotts - there is such a West Midlands area which includes those places. And it's smaller than Greater Manchester, in area and in population, both points having already been stated in this thread.

Next!

OK, but as we're talking "second CITIES" then it is undisputed that the City of Birmingham is larger than the City of Manchester by population, which is the measure by which the second city status has always been measured.

I believe the second city used to be Glasgow, and also at one stage or another, Liverpool was also bigger by population than Birmingham (or indeed your beloved Manchester).

Shaggy Sheep Driver
19th Dec 2014, 10:57
ATN - show your working. Stats, please!

ian16th
19th Dec 2014, 11:25
Birmingham was never meant to be a City!

They never built a Cathedral there, and when it was decided to upgrade Birmingham to a City, the Church of England had to 'promote' the local Parish Church.

It is a rather unimpressive building behind Rackham's.

MagnusP
19th Dec 2014, 11:32
It's London, isn't it? Edinburgh, then London . . .

ATNotts
19th Dec 2014, 11:58
Shaggy Sheep Driver

Largest Cities by Population, UK Cities (http://www.ukcities.co.uk/populations/)

Birmingham ranks 2nd, with 992k, Manchester less than half that figure at 440k.

Haven't got the time at them moment to dredge through the interweb to confirm the history - and of course, I may be wrong on that - I never consider myself to be infallible, unlike some.

perthsaint
19th Dec 2014, 12:00
Magnus understands.

VnV2178B
19th Dec 2014, 14:12
IIan16th,

Brum has 2 cathedrals. OK St Phillips was promoted from the parish church but St Chads has got Pugin's name to it (even if it is a red brick sideline to the A38)


I like both - very unpretentious and in keeping with their surroundings.

VnV