Qantaslink Dash 8 engine failure

[Denzeldude]

Looks like this has been hushed up.:hmm:

Incident: Sunstate DH8D at Dubbo on Dec 5th 2014, engine shut down in flight (http://avherald.com/h?article=47e660ab&opt=0)

With all the QF turnbacks and diversions lately, no surprise they want to keep it quiet.

http://avherald.com/img/sunstate_dh8d_vh-qof_dubbo_141205_1.jpg

[Boney]

Oh my God!

Lucky it didn't fly for nearly a week with a major crack in the tail and end up in an Albury hanger for months and months. Then it would have made the news?

But with an alternative paint scheme it wouldn't.

[Going Nowhere]

Hushed up? Doubt it. Not picked up by the mainstream media? More likely...

Just because it took 5 days for you to find out, doesn't mean it was 'hushed up' :rolleyes:

[atlas12]

It isn't a jet therefore nobody cares :cool:

[Duck Pilot]

Obviously a slow media day in the media..........

Had to laugh this morning when Channel 7 were reporting on the Qantas turn backs and the only footage they showed was a Virgin ATR.

Who cares about the turn backs and all the incidents, the public only need to know about the accidents. If they want any more information they can use the google function!

[Duck Pilot]

Maybe it's time the media employed some "REAL" subject experts who have hands on industry experience in the respective fields to edit their propaganda before airing it.

[KABOY]

Looks like this has been hushed up.

Nah.....it has link after Qantas with propellers, where is the sensationalism in that?

Besides it was outta Dubbo, who would'a been on that?

[ElZilcho]

The media will do as the media does. Reporters hoping for their 30 seconds of fame while chasing the coat tails of a previous aviation article that was actually worth the paper it was written on. Qantas is hot media property right now!

Happens here also. Air NZ gets in the news for one reason or another and subsequently we get bombarded with daily "breaking news" relating to them. The last such tripe was an article quoting a plane spotter at the airport who reported a go around at AKL to the NZ Herald.

Today's journalists are mostly nothing more than bloggers reaching a wider audience. They don't even spell check let alone fact check. I recall a recent article about Boeings 777 Dreamliner :D and let's forget the Piper Cessna... Or perhaps it was the Cessna Piper:}

[Ozmd]

I regularly fly this route and I find the incident disturbing in that 1. It is unclear if pax were explained in flight properly 2. Whether there was adequate emergency preparedness on ground. Dubbo is a major regional city and a resource rich economically productive city. It is also a very important hub for the surrounding mining towns. Such lack of emergeny response in such a place appears a bit odd. I have seen the plane being repaired in the airport. Many others have expressed concern here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/2ocrz0/propeller_just_stopped_on_a_qantas_flight_dubbo/


I think quantaslink fails miserably in customer service lately - beaurocracy is the reason! I must say I was appalled at the way they handled customer relocations to alternate flights on a recent weather disruption in Canberra airport. They arranged overnight accomodation in Sydney to some pax without even notifying them! Add to it they were not even provided a shuttle service from airport - I was also one of them. No wonder I am feeling this incident could be a coverup!!

[Di_Vosh]

I find the incident disturbing in that 1. It is unclear if pax were explained in flight properly

What I find disturbing is that you appear to be more concerned with the PA to passengers than the crew getting an aircraft with a shut down engine safely back on the ground.

We do scenarios like this in the Sim regularly and I can guarantee you that the pilots are incredibly busy at a time like this. Every second spent on a passenger PA means less time to the pilots applying themselves to the task at hand (in this case returning to land in an aircraft which has just shut down an engine).

I wasn't there but I'm pretty certain that there would have been a PA along the lines of: "This is the Captain. We've had to shut down an engine and will have to return to Dubbo. Rest assured that this aeroplane can fly safely on one engine and we'll be back on the ground in x minutes. In the meantime, please return to your seats, fasten your seatbelts and follow the directions of the flight attendants."

2. Whether there was adequate emergency preparedness on ground.

It is up to the crew to request emergency services if they feel that they are required. If the engine was shut down simply because of a low engine oil reading the crew may not have requested emergency services. However, there is nothing to say anywhere that emergency services weren't there.

I read the comments on your link and they don't really help your argument. Just because someone says on an interenet website that there is a coverup doesn't make it so. And some of the comments are laughable.

Then you add some unrelated stuff about your dramas regarding a weather delay and conclude that this is a coverup?

Two days from incident to being reported on the AVHERALD! How is that a cover-up?

DIVOSH!

[tail wheel]

Ozmd. Stick to whatever you do best because aviation commentary isn't one of them.

Cover up? Why, because Alan didn't send you a personal email notification? More likely the rational, sane media had far more important issues to print.

What I find amazing is that we are wasting band width on a turbine engine failure - or more likely precautionary shut down - in a twin engine airliner, which happens some where around the world every day of the year, and is a safe occurrence with trained crews.

[Ozmd]

Thanks for the response. I am sure you would agree that communication is a vital part of emergency response. Please see the front page article in Daily Liberal about this incident:

Big fright on Qantas flight | POLL | Daily Liberal (http://www.dailyliberal.com.au/story/2747847/big-fright-on-qantas-flight-poll/)

There was no reason to cause a fright in my humble opinion. It is a passenger flight and not a cargo! There are people with medical condition inside it and could get into life threatening situations by panicking. I totally agree that the priority should be getting the plane safely back. But there is also a professional way of doing things. Also the news article implies lack of good response from quantaslink. I wonder what the ATSB will do - it still appears to only think whether to investigate or not!

I do appreciate the pilots who did a remarkable job of landing it safely. But a plane full of pax switching of an engine mid air not requesting emergency assistance? That's odd for me. Thanks again.

[tail wheel]

Ozmd. I don't wish to denigrate the Daily Liberal, but I suspect their professional aviation advice may be a little limited? I really don't take much notice of the often inaccurate aviation opinion expressed in the main stream Fairfax and Murdock press, so aviation opinion in the Daily Liberal, a country paper from Dubbo, would barely get my attention.

Yes, no one denies the importance of crew communication to all that need to know, but passengers may be a tad down that priority list, especially when the crew at the sharp end are working like one armed paper hangers to get the aircraft and passengers safely on the ground.

I'm no expert but from my limited knowledge of the incident, the aircraft and passengers could not have been in better, safer, or more qualified, competent hands.

Anyone have anything more constructive to add, or has this thread run it's race and is now yesterday's or in fact, last Fridays news? :confused:

[Atlas Shrugged]

That's odd for me.

That is why we sit where we sit, and you sit where you sit!

[Di_Vosh]

Ozmd

I am sure you would agree that communication is a vital part of emergency response

Yes I would agree. However, what you deliberately appear to be refusing to understand is that getting the aircraft safely on the ground is "more vital" than communication.

To put it another way, do you want a pilot make a long PA about how "things are going to be alright" or would you prefer that pilot make things turn out alright by landing the aircraft in a safe manner as soon as possible.

Through my own experiences I can guarantee that you might not have time to do both, so what would you rather your pilot do?

But a plane full of pax switching of an engine mid air not requesting emergency assistance? That's odd for me.

How do you know that they didn't?

DIVOSH!

[Oakape]

Unfortunately, everyone is just wasting their breath here, figuratively speaking. Aviation is one of those industries where you can never fully understand it unless you are involved in it. Even some of those involved seem to have very little clue! My wife doesn't fully understand it after 30 years of being closely exposed to the industry & I don't expect anyone outside the industry to.

They have their paradigm & we have ours & they are very different. Perhaps, if the person concerned really wanted a fright, they could have sat in the jump seat & observed the workload that ensues in this situation. Even then they still would not be able to comprehend what was going on in the minds of the crew, particularly the captain. The few times my missus sat in the jump seat for a normal landing (back in the days when she could), she found it quite frightening because of her lack of understanding about what was going on.

[Left 270]

Ozmd,
In order from your last post.

Pilots fly freight.

There could have been a much more life threatening situation for the pilots to be dealing with for them not to give a pax brief, if, they didn't.

ATSB shouldn't have too much work on their hands for a routine shutdown.

Pilots don't "switch off" engines they shut them down.

Those, just being a few points to make me think either you the writer for the Daily Liberal or a desk jockey for the competition.

[Harry Cooper]

My two cents worth ...

Dash 8 gave a PAN on area (Centre);
Centre called the Airport Operator to let them know that the Dash 8 was returning with a failure;
Airport Operator was on the phone arranging Emergency services when the Dash landed safely;
Emergency services were recalled when the Dash taxiied in and shutdown.

I dont think there was a lack of comms here at all. Considering both the Ambulance and Fire are on the opposite side of Dubbo to the Airport it would still be 15 mins from call to arrival and by the time the Airport Operator was notified of the issue the aircraft was in the circuit.

Its my belief, and please correct me if Im wrong, but unless a pilot requests Emergency Services (with the PAN call) through Centre then it is up to the Airport Operators Emergency Plan as to whether or not they call Emergency Services, which in this case they did.

[Ozmd]

I might have stirred the hornets nest. It was indeed amusing to read some of the comments. May be we ill-informed'' pax who sit where we sit so you might sit where you sit (ÿou are the reason we fly!") have expectations. Especially of such things as the following: No Cookies | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/moorabbin-airport-drama-as-pilot-makes-emergency-landing-with-nose-wheel-sideways/story-fni0fit3-1227125292052) The above was broadcast real-time in Sunrise. The emergency response was considered one of 'textbook' precision. May be some airports are more equal than others! In my humble opinion, an expert (ex. Pilot) stands at an interface between the 'lay'public and trained professionals. I still believe assuaging the anguish of the uninformed is necessary while handling the emergency, especially in this case as it appears to be just a úsual'procedure, according to the aviation gurus here. And you clearly see why customers like that gentleman in news are lost by the aviation sector. You might have done the mechanics right but failed miserably, at least in his perspective, to convince that you are safe! As presumed by some, I have no media or industry relations whatsoever. I am a person that believes that the value of anything lies in its merit and not in its sponsorship (i.e., which paper publishes it). In this case the said media was only disclosing some facts and not their view. The last I checked, they also belong to the fairfax group!

[Sunfish]

Engine written off.FADEC fail then total loss of oil pressure. Not sure after that..

[j3pipercub]

^This. This is why I love flying freight. Know it alls trying to critique a situation they know less than nothing about.

Haha and quoting reddit as a 'source'. Fark now I've seen it all. Yes I am also a redditor, mostly gonewild though:E. If you want some sage advice, read the posts by the redditor I RATE HATS on your font of all knowledge. He seems to know what he is talking about.

Edit: the^ not directed at Sunfish

[ConfigFull]

Ozmd

I'm interested - let's say you were sitting in the jump seat that day and all of a sudden a bunch of cautions and the Master Warning goes off for low engine oil pressure. What do you think happens up the front and how long do you think each step takes?

[Capt Claret]

Ozmd,

Having read newspaper articles about a number of aviation incidents that I've been directly involved in as the captain, I can say that not one was wholly accurate, very few bore much resemblance to the truth, and as a result I now treat events reported in the media with ever more scepticism.

[Left 270]

OZMD,

Are you saying that because they used emergency services for a gear failure (standard procedure because of, wait for it, the increased risk of fire due to the possible collapse and fuselage contacting the runway) they should have used it for a OEI approach? If not I fail to see you point?

[tail wheel]

Fairfax press owns the Daily Liberal??? Cripes, that is an oxymoron!!! :E

Ozmd, you are out of your depth. The incident was handled very professionally, the correct decisions were made and at no time was the aircraft, passengers or crew in any elevated risk of danger. The passengers were statistically safer than being on a serviceable Greyhound bus, although I accept what appeared to be the circumstances may have been a little frightening for the passengers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/Closed-1.gif