Korean Air VP goes nuts over nuts

[a330pilotcanada]

Good Morning All:

Maybe this will make for a interesting discussion point for remedial Cockpit Resource Management or a much needed visit for anger management counseling.

Maybe the Captain should have rethought that one as in my thinking you only return to the gate for a safety/maintenance issue

Korean Air Chairman's Daughter Kicks FA Off Flight — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6249263/)

This incident happened onboard KE086 JFK-ICN on December 5th. The daughter of Korean Air's chairman, who also happens to be the vice chairman herself, was served macadamia nuts in a paper bag instead of a ramekin by the FA. This really angered her, and she yelled at the FA, demanding her to bring over the FA manual so that she can find out the policy on serving nuts in First class.

Because of her really loud yell (which could be heard all the way in the Y cabin), the FA was nervous and was unable to locate the section that pertains to serving nuts. The chairman's daughter then ordered the purser to get off the plane, and the plane turned back to the gate to offload the purser, causing a delay of 11 minutes. The purser caught a separate flight back to ICN the following day.

The Korean Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport suggested that the chairman's daughter could face charges for her actions.

You just can't make stuff up like this... What a farcical airline, and I'm glad that I've switched over most of my business to other airlines.

[PAXboy]

The Korean Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport suggested that the chairman's daughter could face charges for her actions.I've highlighted the relevant words ... :rolleyes:

[ExXB]

FlightAware (http://de.flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL86/history/20141205/0550Z/KJFK/RKSI) shows this flight leaving 46 minutes late and arriving 26 minutes late. Not bad for a 13 1/2 hour westbound flight.

While I find it unacceptable for any airline employee (or child of an employee) from acting in such a manner the activity does not seem to have caused any hardship to any of the paying passengers on board. (The flight arrival not being significant different than preceding/later flights. The day after the flight left 12 minutes earlier and arrived 2 minutes later)

As for charges? What charges? Unlawful interference with an aircraft? I don't see that.

Other than for readers of the Daily Snail, and similar, I don't see a real story here.

[Left Coaster]

I know lots of ways to serve nuts…hot, cold, in a bag, in a plane, on a train, in a house or with a mouse…you all know the story I'm sure!
Sounds an awful lot to me like the nut was in a First Class seat…not in the bag…or maybe she was? :eek:

[Basil]

And that's one of the reasons I'd be reluctant to passenger with an airline like this.
In a Western airline the captain would have told this 'exec' to sort it out in the office. Regrettably, things are not like that in many other countries, SK being an excellent example.

[tezzer]

Oooh, I'd LOVE to be sat in the seat next to her. Excuse me Madam, who the :mad: do you think you are !

[Maisk Rotum]

Korean Air VP under fire for delaying flight over nuts - East Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times (http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/east-asia/story/korean-air-vp-under-fire-delaying-flight-over-nuts-20141208#xtor=CS1-10)

Courtesy of the Straits Times

SEOUL (AFP) - The daughter of the CEO of Korean Air forced the chief flight attendant off a New York-bound plane after she was incorrectly served some nuts - delaying the flight and triggering a government probe, officals said Monday. Cho Hyun Ah, who is an executive vice president of the family-run flag carrier, insisted the chief flight attendant, or purser, leave the plane just minutes before take-off on Friday, Korean Air said. Cho had taken exception to the arrival of some macadamia nuts she had not asked for, and to the fact that they were served in a packet rather than a bowl. Cho maintained that the purser was responsible for the crew failing to follow the airline service manual correctly, and should therefore leave the plane, the airline said. The plane, which was already taxiing towards the runway, had to return to the terminal as a result - causing an 11-minute delay in arrival. The incident garnered substantial media attention and public criticism of Cho's action. In a statement, the Transport Ministry said it was investigating the case to see if it involved any breach of aviation safety regulations. "If the investigation finds any violations, the necessary action will be taken against the air carrier," it said. One ministry official told AFP that Cho's action had been "totally inappropriate." Seoul's main opposition party also called for a thorough probe, saying the daughter of Korean Air CEO Cho Yang Ho had a responsibility to protect the airline's image. "Why did she have to make all that fuss because of some stupid macadamia nuts?" the New Politics Alliance for Democracy said in a statement. "She soiled the reputation of our flag carrier," it said. A Korean Air spokesman said Cho had taken the position that the chief flight attendant was incapable of ensuring the safety of the 250 passengers on the 13-hour flight to New York. The pilot on board agreed with Cho’s decision, he added. - See more at: Korean Air VP under fire for delaying flight over nuts - East Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times (http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/east-asia/story/korean-air-vp-under-fire-delaying-flight-over-nuts-20141208#xtor=CS1-10)

[skol]

Goes to show who really is the boss on board a KAL aircraft.

[crewmeal]

Stupid woman! You would have thought she would have spent her energies looking after the airline's problems instead of nuts.

[Big Pistons Forever]

A Korean Air spokesman said Cho had taken the position that the chief flight attendant was incapable of ensuring the safety of the 250 passengers on the 13-hour flight to New York. The pilot on board agreed with Cho’s decision, he added.

Or the Captain of the aircraft and therefore the only person who was responsible for the quote safety of the 250 passengers unquote did not have the intestinal fortitude to tell Ms Cho that only he gets to decide if a crew member is fit for duty, or that he has to return to the gate to off load them.

The San Francisco 777 crash showed what happens when there is an un-questioning deference to a person senior to you.......

[despegue]

He should have indeed turn back to gate and offload and get arrested the VP for threatening the crew.

This "Captain" is not worth his/her seat if you have not the assertiveness to be the Commander of your Ship.

[Maisk Rotum]

Indeed it would have been an entirely different ending and story if the captain had simply ignored her and went ahead with the flight.

[Minosavy Masta]

It would be interesting to know if the Captain was Korean or an Expat, seems that the plethora of incidents and accidents to KAL Aircraft over the past years which prompted the Airline to bring in Consultants and advisors from Foreign Carriers,as well as an ongoing procession of Expat crews,has done little to Fix the underlying problem of Class,Rank,and Self Entitlement,displayed by many Nationals in positions of Power.

It certainly should be the ultimate Caveat....ie. Caveat Emptor for any person considering being lured into entrusting ones Air Travel into these hands,regardless of the $ saving.:bored:

[autoflight]

The executive vice president may have overstepped western standards. For the sake of a small delay, the captain was correct to return to stand. After that, any offending persons should be offloaded or, for safety reasons he could refuse to operate the flight.
If captain is a national, this path is culturally considerably more difficult. These cultural issues are what makes flying significantly less safe. They might even demote or terminate him, for needing prompting.
Could the executive be finally resposible for the gravely serious nut issue?

[Yaw String]

Copied from South East Asia Forum.

It is alleged,...Ain't the first time " Fiona " Heather Cho has caused grieve to the Korean Air crew.

Some years ago when the inflight sales wasn't up to her expectations, she set strict targets for each designated sales crew ( responsible for notching up sales ). If they did not meet the targets, they were given a severe dressing down with threats of job termination. Most of them bought the inflight stuff themselves with their own hard earned money in order to meet the targets. Those who couldn't afford had to quit; It is alleged, a few distressed one actually committed suicide!

The ones who bought the inflight sales stuff just to meet their targets ran afoul of the strict South Korean customs authorities costing them fines imposed. They were worser off as the Customs authorities then reported to the company that the crew members had breached the " no duty free allowance crew rule " and recommended their job terminations! They just couldn't escape that vicious cycle. So some poor depressed ones committed suicide because it was a severe loss of esteem to have been fired for " customs fraud ", or to have lost jobs with the prestigious " national flag carrier "

Throughout the flight, the crew actually have very little sense of situational awareness with regards to safety...they were very very preoccupied with meeting inflight sales targets and not offending " fiona "!

[totempole]

From flightaware, it was shown as an A380 flight. As such, the PIC was certainly a local Korean captain. Well, it would be very difficult for a local Korean captain to defy a company VP.

Even a Canuck captain with a cargo fire warning did not dare to defy the OC ( Korean Air Operations Control ) and agreed with company " experts " to continue flying to YVR. It was eventually determined to be a false warning, but there was no absolute way to ascertain so...the checklist hence called for landing ASAP at the nearest suitable airport.

So it is not easy defy company orders despite all the hollow display of armchair bravado by some.:ugh:

[fox niner]

So, is Korean a family-run flag carrier, or a state subsidised family business?
What a mess...

[Dog Star]

Korean Air offers apology to passengers for inconvenience caused

Gov't to review Korean Air heiress' discipline of flight crew member (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/12/116_169555.html)

claiming that it was the captain who had off loaded the purser. :=

[Minosavy Masta]

Well may you call it "Armchair Bravado" but it has to be said,and the whole reason the problem continues unabated to this day is that Employees live in fear of their very lives Not just their jobs. For the expats who speak up ,they are obviously terminated,that explains the never ending recruiting that this company indulge in.

If you work and live under such duress the decision to Obey the Almighty Powers comes down to....the Rock and Hard place scenario.

This is perhaps how and why some choose to preside over a smoking hole InThe ground rather than question the status quo :=

[Capetonian]

They should have the captain's nuts on a plate.

Oh ....... he doesn't seem to have any.

[Los Endos]

So CC is serving nuts and the Captain is concerning himself with this, all while taxiing for take off ? Anyway, according to the BBC, the protagonist has been fired. Anyone got a sword ?!

[ExXB]

Apparently her daddy, the Chairman of the Board, has accepted her resignation. No doubt she will be taking a few macadamias with her on the way out the door.

While this may be (?? not certain) acceptable behavior in her culture, bringing the company into disrepute is obviously not.

When I was a manager I never raised my voice, or chastised an employee within earshot of anyone else. If I had an issue, I'd take it away from public view. To do otherwise makes you look like the idiot.

[MonarchOrBust]

Expat pilots usually leave before they have their nuts roasted. Locals prefer to keep theirs salty.

Korean have been hiring pilots non-stop every day for at least 5 years. Now you know why.

[fox niner]

The Beeb is now reporting that Heather Cho has resigned!
Phew.
This was so outrageous, even for Korean standards, that there could only be one outcome....Apparently....

[ACMS]

Justice is swift in Korea, the public have spoken.....

[beamender99]

A Korean Air executive who delayed a plane because she was angry with the way she had been served nuts by an air steward has resigned, the airline says.

The airline has apologised, but said she had had the support of the pilot.

More info
BBC News - Korean Air 'nut rage' executive Heather Cho resigns (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30390724)

[Aluminium shuffler]

For those hypocrites who criticise the captain, remember the captain can defy the management in the interest of safety but will be sacked for any other refusal of orders. I would ask you where the breach of safety was in returning to stand, versus the breach of taking a volatile situation by a powerful lunatic into the air.

The captain was indeed between a rock and a hard place, and given such a scenario could only play out one way in the media and with only one result at the end of that, I think he did the right thing, despite my instincts that he should have over-ruled the VP. He played the long game rather than doing the initially morally correct thing of getting stuck-in himself. Consequently, he keeps his job to fight another day, the purser gets reinstated and the VP is fired. That's a win.

[JammedStab]

I didn't know KAL was family-owned. Usually that means there are lots of very "interesting" stories from the interfering family. Any other stories?

[taufupok]

Aluminium shuffler For those hypocrites who criticise the captain, remember the captain can defy the management in the interest of safety but will be sacked for any other refusal of orders. I would ask you where the breach of safety was in returning to stand, versus the breach of taking a volatile situation by a powerful lunatic into the air.

The captain was indeed between a rock and a hard place, and given such a scenario could only play out one way in the media and with only one result at the end of that, I think he did the right thing, despite my instincts that he should have over-ruled the VP. He played the long game rather than doing the initially morally correct thing of getting stuck-in himself. Consequently, he keeps his job to fight another day, the purser gets reinstated and the VP is fired. That's a win.


You got it absolutely right! :D:D:D...errrr..........

[taufupok]

The sad thing is that it remains how the internal enquiry pans out. She may have resigned but if the chairman " determines " that the captain had not taken the bullet for his daughter in this " public prosecution by the mass media ", he has other sick ways of exacting revenge. The Korean DFO is known to be an eunuch eager to please the emperor.

The KAL flight crew union should use this momentum to publicly air their grievances and educate the Korean public about this imperious family running their national flag carrier. I understand from ex-colleagues now in KAL that the imperious daughter had caused a lot of changes to the flight crew preflight procedures to further her own agenda as well as that of her husband's.

Apparently her husband runs the Inha hospital and has some covert influence on the " medical licence " of flight crews...there are lots of ways for them to skin a cat if the imperious chairman choose to exact revenge. Just too early to celebrate this as an outright win.

[crewmeal]

Ding dong the witch has gone......

CEO?s daughter loses job after ?nut rage? incident on Korean Air flight - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/12/09/ceos-daughter-loses-job-after-nut-rage-incident-on-korean-air-flight/)

[Dog Star]

A tragic waste of one of the best educations that money can buy. Ivy League under grad at Cornell and MBA USC. Oh well, at 40 years of age there is always time enough to begin again at another airline or maybe branch out into some other service industry. Good luck madame. :ouch:

[Dog Star]

why has this thread been so quickly removed from the "news" and rumours?

[TWT]

Maybe Cho is now working for Internet Brands ?

[Minosavy Masta]

Mods....please. This is not a Self Loading Freight and Pax issue as much as. Valid CRM discussion by predominantly in the know Aviators. Your moving this thread implies some external interference,which after all is the whole point of this discussion.:ugh:

[Skeleton]

It would be interesting to know if the Captain was Korean or an Expat, seems that the plethora of incidents and accidents to KAL Aircraft over the past years which prompted the Airline to bring in Consultants and advisors from Foreign Carriers,as well as an ongoing procession of Expat crews,has done little to Fix the underlying problem of Class,Rank,and Self Entitlement,displayed by many Nationals in positions of Power.


Its actually achieved a lot, the last pax fatal was in 1997, cargo fatal 1999. since that date 3 non-fatal incidents none of which were the crews fault.

Hardly a plethero of incidents.

Safety wise there up there with the best, according to all reviews independent or otherwise.

I still would not fly with them.

[Passenger 389]

According to an impeccably reliable source (the Daily Telegraph), although Heather Cho has resigned as Korean Air's in-flight services chief, she remains a company vice-president. All three of Chairman Cho Hang Yo's are company executives.

A company official stated Ms. Cho was sorry "that I unintentionally caused social uproar"

[SRS]

Everyone that worked for Korean Air knows that Heather is a bitch. The cabin crew would almost have a nevious breakdown when she was on board. This goes back at least 10 years. Her mother is also the same but her sister is much better. In Korean nothing ever changes and it will not this time either.

[reynoldsno1]

she remains a company vice-president
... no longer ...

[Ocean Person]

Gcaptain (The Marine Forum equivalent to pprune) is reporting details of the largest and most powerful marine engine ever built. It has just been installed in the largest container ship yet launched the MV CSCL Globe owned by the China Shipping Line. This massive engine is something of a technical marvel and it was built by South Korea's Hyundai Marine Associates. The reason South Korea can do this exemplary engineering is because of the type of efficiency insisted on by people like Heather Cho.
Some of you non thinkers who have posted here really should wake up to realty.

[Load Toad]

Yes I can see how the two things are connected now you mention it.

Doh.

[Planemike]

The reason South Korea can do this exemplary engineering is because of the type of efficiency insisted on by people like Heather Cho.

Oh, and the only way to acheive that efficiency to behave like a :mad: to your staff?

[Ocean Person]

Planemike:

My answer to your question is yes. While you digest this you may care to reflect on why South Korea as a technically advanced nation is at the top of the ladder while your own country is on a lower rung. Absit Invidia.

[TightSlot]

Which ladder? (There are more than one). In certain fields, Korea may well enjoy an advantage over other nations; In other fields this may possibly not be the case. Surely national quality of life i.e. a cocktail of criteria is a subjective assessment and therefore difficult sensibly to compare.

If the price of progress towards the state of Nirvana-like perfection that is Korea is that people like Ms Cho can bully the small people with impunity, then that may not be a price that everybody is willing to pay.

Just sayin'

[Basil]

Korean Airlines nut rage executive Cho Hyuan-ah apologises | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2871267/Korean-Airlines-nut-rage-executive-apologises-forcing-plane-turn-terminal-snack-served-bag.html)
'I am so ashamed': Head bowed, daughter of Korean Air chairman resigns and makes humiliating public apology

[Planemike]

My answer to your question is yes. While you digest this you may care to reflect on why South Korea as a technically advanced nation is at the top of the ladder while your own country is on a lower rung. Absit Invidia.

Pleased to say there are many more inspirational bosses who achieve "efficiency" by earning the respect of those who work for them rather than treating the "underlings" like dirt........

Seems that her father is none too pleased with the way she has achieved "efficiency" for the airline: more likely brought it into disrepute.

Folk who behave this way deserve to get their comeupance.

[S.o.S.]

Folks - the discussion of the Korean Air peanuts incident has been fully covered.

If you want to discuss the pros and cons of Korean society and it's place in the 21st century - please open a thread in Jet Blast.

[S.o.S.]

New information has come to light in this BBC report. BBC News - Korean Air executive 'made steward kneel over nut rage' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30461979)

It may (perhaps) be something of a turning point for Korean Air, although too early to tell. However, I have reopened the thread BUT on topic please.

[TowerDog]

Unbelievable story, forced to kneel and all.
The Captain should have refused to return to the gate, un-necessary heating of brakes and tires before a high speed take-off.
Probably afraid of his job, poor little man. :sad:

[crewmeal]

Didn't the Japanese used to make POWs kneel before chopping off their heads? Maybe she had been watching a WWII movie!

Nevertheless she showed herself up as a complete idiot and deserves everything she gets.

[beamender99]

A former Korean Air executive has tried to apologise in person to two flight attendants for the way she treated them over how she was served nuts.

Heather Cho visited the homes of the pair - but both were out, so she left them a note instead.

BBC News - 'Nut rage': Former Korean Air executive visits air stewards (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30468203)

[Mark in CA]

I see a future nut industry spokesperson position for the former Korean Air exec. :p

Sales of macadamias soar in Korea after nut rage (http://news.yahoo.com/sales-macadamias-soar-korea-nut-rage-050348904.html)

[Ocean Person]

It seems to me that right from the very onset this affair is a case of trial by media. Mob mentality (including pprune) voicing the opinions of a minority group who think they know it all.
Heather is Korean bourgeois by birth and the Korean people accept and understand this. It would not be amiss if you pprune Judge Jeffreys who really don't understand the culture back off and leave the lady be.

[PAXboy]

I think that is a reasonable statement of how things might be viewed, Ocean Person, in Korea. But ...


The airline sells itself as being a global company.
They market themselves to the 'Western World '.
They want to be seen as being part of the top rank of carriers.
They are members of SkyTeam.
They are the Korean 'flag carrier' and represent their country to the rest of the world.

Accordingly, they will be judged by international global standards which - like it or not - are predominantly 'Western World'. They WILL be judged by social media (of which PPRuNe is part) and if they do not like it - they can drop all their international routes and serve only domestic points.

However, since the woman made a public apology and resignation - that indicates that the airline is trying to meet the international 'Western' norms of behaviour. Just because this kind of bourgeois behaviour is understood by modern Koreans - it doesn't mean they want it to continue.

We used to have a lot of that kind of behaviour in the UK but it has reduced by a very considerable amount and is not tolerated.

[peekay4]

Heather Cho referred to prosecutors. Korean Air face US$ 2 million fine, flight suspensions:

"As it has been confirmed that (Heather) Cho raised her voice and used abusive language as testified by some flight crew members and passengers, we will report her to the prosecution for potential violation of aviation safety law," the transport ministry said in a statement.

The ministry said Korean Air also violated aviation law and it is reviewing punitive measures for the airline, which could include flight suspensions and a fine of up to $2 million, the statement said.

South Korea investigate Korean Air over Heather Cho outburst of nut service; company faces $2m fine - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-16/korean-air-faces-2m-fine-over-nut-outburst/5970912)

[Load Toad]

Ocean Person should well remember much outrage at the Little Spoilt Princess was from S.Korea.
Most people I know in Korea no longer tolerate people who think they are privileged - she's lost her job, brought shame & loss of face on her family & the airline and the airline is going to face a fine & suspensions.

Ocean Person is very much in the minority on this.

[peekay4]

Korea is also still reeling from the tragic sinking of the MV Sewol, with many blaming the (then) company Chairman, business tycoon Yoo Byung-eun, and his children -- who were all listed as company executives / major shareholders.

Som-Na, the tycoon's daughter, lived lavishly in France before being arrested earlier this year on embezzlement charges. She is currently in the news as she is fighting her extradition back to Korea.

So it's against this backdrop that we have the nut-rage sensation Heather Cho, the privileged daughter of another transportation tycoon. I think ordinary Koreans are resentful of the nepotism and corruption they perceive in large Korean corporations, in government, politics, etc.

It didn't help that KAL and the Korean transportation authorities initially tried to "cover up" Ms. Cho's misdeeds by essentially blaming the purser. After a huge backlash, now there is pressure on the authorities to appear tough in dealing with Ms. Cho and Korean Air.

[Ocean Person]

The tall poppy syndrome and or the Law of Jante must have taken over from the normal common sense of the South Korean people, modernity prevails with Margaret Thatcher's words of "Let your tall poppies grow" out the window.

This entire affair is a charade and when the dust settles I sincerely hope the lady has her dignity restored.

O.P.

[TightSlot]

If only the rest of the world could see the facts with such clarity. I'm sure one day they will.

[S.o.S.]

Thank you TightSlot and that wraps up the thread.